Powerful 4x4 products I purchased not of merchantable quality as they describe!!!

[BundyDave]

Hi All I would like to share this with you so you can make up for yourselves what kind of products and support you get from Powerful4x4. I bought a rear dual wheel carrier just under a year ago and I had notified them that it was not quite right from day one. I had issues with the bull bar too. Some of them have been rectified.

My vehicle is a GU IV 2006 Patrol

The bottom line is THEY MARKET THEIR PRODUCTS AS SUITING A CERTAIN MODEL BUT BOTH OF THE BARS I BOUGHT NEEDED MODIFICATIONS TO GET THEM TO DO WHAT THEY MARKET THEM AS DOING OUT OF THE BOX.

Dual wheel carrier had to have spacers placed on the back of the bar (centre) to stop it riding up and pushing the flares up. The powder coating bubbled when tightening the bolts to get the bar to sit properly.

Powerful 4x4 won't acknowledge that the bar from new was possibly not "TRUE". They keep deflecting the issue, and then just stop responding. The two wheel carriers I received with the bar did not suit the GUIV. I was sent replacement bars. Oh and they had upgraded latches so I had to drill through the bar to relocate the old latches as the new bars have been rotated 90 deg.

These arms now rattle when driving they don't line up correctly despite having only ever had oem rims and tyres mounted to them. The number plate bracket did not fit, I was sent 3 different manufactured brackets before I received one that fit.

They refuse to get someone to inspect it to see what I'm referring to, such requests are unanswered or emails ignored.

The bullbar which is sold as a winch bar had to be grinded to get the winch fairlead to fit.

All the problems I bring to their attention are met by, "oh we have never had so many issues with one of our products." This is a lie, as the product would have been replaced by now or repaired. If they have such good quality products any manufacturer would have replaced them,. P 4x4 however try to avoid the issue, happy to send out parts to make it look like they are fixing the problems but don't. I am sure they know their products are not of merchantable quality and are hoping people just get tired and go away.

They refuse to get it looked at by an engineer as they are afraid of the results.

I have been in touch with the ACCC who have said they will be following the matter up. I have advised them to wait as I will try to get an engineer to examine the product first.

I will keep you all posted as to the outcome of this.

Regards

Dave:furious:

[Agronaught]

I can confirm the fairlead problem, but haven't found a solution myself. Its the last task to complete the install.

Im hoping to find a slightly smaller fairlead.

[Bloodyaussie]

Good luck mate, I wondered about there products myself and had concerns with them being in the same ilk as many Chinese crap out there.

Keep us informed mate.....

[Maxhead]

Mate, I know how you feel!. I have been going through some issues with TJM Queanbeyan and I can say it hasn't been easy!

Every single accessory that has been installed has been fuc&ed up

To start of the bull bar indicator was brown from water getting into it. The $1000 xray vision light got water in it!
The TJM side steps cut through my air con pipe and I lost my air con!
The second battery leaked everywhere so they had to spray pain evrything

[Winnie]

Any issues with that Rasslar rear bar?

[scotty83]

I have had the same problem with their products. Premium bullbar. Hitch receivers didn't fit and i broke the welds on the captive bolts in the chassis rail trying to tighten down due to the angle. Then the roller fairlead for the steel rope winch (supplied by them) didn't fit so i was forced to purchase dyna rope and alloy fairlead to make this work.

Bullbar park and indicator lights were twisted and taped together. Not well either. asked for replacements got sent the same units. WTF...

The awning didn't come with any mounting brackets. (not normal from what i have seen of industry) even to fit their roof rack.

Glad to see I am not the only one with issues.

[hekarewe]

i can remember going into their new show room when they first started in bankstown i walked in door and heard the fraze "fully shick mate!!!" spotted a birker and a shamrag and knew i was in the wrong shop.

i am not a racist but when saw the place was owned and run by (being politicly correct) people of middle eastern appearance i knew i would be dealling with them. i have heard some very daming reports from people who have fitted their products and even saw a wheel carrier fall of one of their rear bars.

on the flip side i am having a rear bar fitted to my patrol and had it ordered from MILWELD ENG in mansfield vic it turned up damaged in transit, not only did they dispatch a new bar with out question and free of charge they threw in a jerry can holder for my incoviences. as far as i know they are a aussie company and do all their fabrication in house and to order might be worth your while talking to them they are also cheaper then powerful 4x4's rear bar from memory

[89gqpatrol4x4]

seems to be a common thread here with these cheaper priced items from a few different manufacturers. I think everyone is driven by the dollar ( including myself) showing time and time again that cheapest is not always the best. I too have been stung in alot of different situations and wish I had spent the extra and got the better item. I just hope my cheap winch doesn't sh*t itself when I really need it lol

[Winnie]

Hek, you're right, Millweld do all their own work right there in Mansfield, great blokes, great product, great service.

[Agronaught]

Im planning on heading to lannasvale tomorrow to ask about the fairlead.

Failing that im thinking about a steel hawes fairlead as i dont want to spend up on dyneema at this stage.

[megatexture]

I've got a powerfull rear bar and fitted it myself, it was a pain in the ass to fit but went on with no mods. the only issue I have had was the one of the latches holding the wheel carrier in the locked position's welds broke but was an easy fix. I had looked into millweld rear bars but they were the same price with no wheel carrier or jerry can holder but this was a few yrs back not sure on prices now but I was also told by millweld that if i got the rear bar only and wanted to add a wheel holder I'd have to send them the bar or get it made local .. An that sounded like to much work lol maybe the newer bar is fudged?

[Stropp]

I also have a dual wheel carrier bar and so far so good, it has taken a couple of hits and still is hanging in, fingers crossed it will last a lot longer.

[Agronaught]

Dont get me wrong, im happy with the bull bar... Just wish i could mount the fairlead.

[megatexture]

Yeah that's surprising as most fairleads are a common size and bolt spacing

[mick.]

I went though the same crap with powerful4x4. I cant believe there allowed to keep selling crap like this and getting away with it. I bought a roof rack which has rusted out from the inside out. This only took 3 months to show up and now has a hole you can put your finger in.

I also got a rear bar at the same time which has never fitted properly, crack in 2 places and is rusting everywhere. The duel jerry can holders are to small in size to even fit one jerry can let alone 2. When the morons had the made they actually made the holders to the size of the common jerry can they didn't make it so a jerry can would fit in them. lol

The rear bar I'm going to modify and fix myself and get it sandblasted and paint it myself. The roof rack I'm going to pull off and throw in the bin as it's actually not repairable it's that bad.

I gave up on trying to get anything done about it and I really didn't want to replace one piece of crap with another.

Cheers Mick.

[threedogs]

Powerful 4x4 have a range of rear bars from El Cheapo to what they call Premium.
Having toured the Kaymar facilities, The powerful products would not come close to Quality
The big 3 that do rear bars are pricey $$$ but they fit, they last too. might add Kaymar dont warrant
their rear bars for stabilizers, which can lead to breakages.YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR AGAIN.
Never heard a bad report about any MILWELD product

[mick.]

You do get what you pay for but there's no way in hell a rear bar is worth $5000 or more like ARB or Kaymar are selling them for and they do break just like the cheaper ones. I would rather buy a cheap bar and mod it to suit and know it will be as good as a Kaymar for half the price when finished.

As for the roofracks when I bought mine they where the same price as ARB and TJM but they didn't have an option for spot lights and a roof top tent at the time.

Cheers Mick.

[threedogs]

With you on that Mick overpriced to the max IMO

[growler2058]

I've never even heard of these dudes? Definitely won't be looking them up either!
Totally agree the big name brands out there are way way over priced for what you get. When it comes time for wifeys Prado ill be going to a local steel fabricator


Tap someone who cares

[BigRAWesty]

You do get what you pay for but there's no way in hell a rear bar is worth $5000 or more like ARB or Kaymar are selling them for and they do break just like the cheaper ones. I would rather buy a cheap bar and mod it to suit and know it will be as good as a Kaymar for half the price when finished.
Cheers Mick.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/12/43.jpg

Your not paying $5000 for just the bar, its the service, warrenty, customer care and piece if mind which costs...
Pay peanuts, gets monkeys.. and the last time I was at the zoo, the monkey didn't make a good customer service person...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Maxhead]

Any issues with that Rasslar rear bar?

Nope, all good so far mate. The best looking bit of gear i have got! Can't say the same about TJM though

[kevin07]

well being a bankstown boy i often drive past this store always thinking must get in there for a look. I WILL NO LONGER BE CURIOUS TO HAVE LOOK IN THERE. thanks guys thats what this forum is all about learning from each other finding out about the good the bad and getting rid of the shit sellers.kev

[Agronaught]

Although to be fair they were more engaging, interested and helpful than ARB.

[threedogs]

If any one has any issues with a TJM product or staff, please send me a Pm ,I'll lokk into it on your behalf.
Bear in mind they as well as ARB and Op Loc and others put up with rude customers as well.
that know nothing about their 4x4 and expect everything.

[lorrieandjas]

Hey guys - been said time and time again on many threads - but once again it seems that cheaper is cheaper for a reason. The only time I have really seen cheap = great value has been when it is a local small manufacturer who cares about their product, reputation and customers. Caveat Emptor!

Jas

[Stropp]

thats right Jas and i bought the powerfull rear bar knowing full well that was the case but at about 1/3 the price of kaymar you expect that and i was willing too take a chance, at $1200 i could not ask for anything more at the moment as its been on for several months and no issues although i did check my bar out prior to buying it so i think if i get another 5yrs it will be well worth it. Stropp

[MQ MAD]

Bear in mind they as well as ARB and Op Loc and others put up with rude customers as well.
that know nothing about their 4x4 and expect everything.

Its funny people dont really understand manufacturing or customers service,or unruly customers utter disrespect towards companies till they run,or own a business
There are shonkies everywhere,some piggy back on brand names,somes work their freckle of to compete and get a brand name out there,and some are just plain ol crooks
I run my own manufacture joint, and youll be surprised how many ,"I can do better,oh my grandson can do better "
Well theres the equipment,theres the materials , knock yourself out ....
Yet noone has taken up the challenge
Cause most people are big on the mouth ,and less big on the action ......
Think there called "Gunnas" ....
That aside, how about getting a few mates together and making the stuff for yourself,if your product is price and quality competitive , go against the larger companies
A place i worked at many years ago,if you altered by even running a grinder along one edge you void any warranties
We had a customer comin in years after a product was bought,they welded some behemoth on one side,welds looked like bird droppings, then sprayed the area with a different toned paint
Then screamed "warranty "
Only takes 1 apple to spoil the box

[mick.]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/12/43.jpg

Your not paying $5000 for just the bar, its the service, warrenty, customer care and piece if mind which costs...
Pay peanuts, gets monkeys.. and the last time I was at the zoo, the monkey didn't make a good customer service person...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)Being in the fabrication business myself and a lot of our work is custom. I know personly once you have jigs made up and the price of steel there's no way in hell they would cost more then $1500 ot $2000 max with labour and material costs thats being very generous. There's no way in hell the service, warrenty, customer care and piece of mind is worth the other $3000 or more.

We build basic horse floats up to the top of the range floats with kitchens etc. Our basic 2 horse straight load floats sell for about $10,000. There is 10 to 15 times the amount of steel in them, all Australian Super gal, 20 times the amount of welding, prep, primer and paint, decals, fibreglass roof, windows, vents, padding, hardwood flooring, locks, latches, hinges, rubber and about $500 worth of wiring and lights plus labour. Oh yes we also supply great customer service, 5 year warrenties, free check up and service.

Please tell my what I'm missing because it totally has me stuffed.

[BigRAWesty]

Warranty, liabilities, insurance, postage, R & D, compliance licences..
A bull bar or rear bar ain't just a bit of square galv steel welded into a box shape and sheeted... Especially if you run airbags...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[Clunk]

Warranty, liabilities, insurance, postage, R & D, compliance licences..
A bull bar or rear bar ain't just a bit of square galv steel welded into a box shape and sheeted... Especially if you run airbags...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

But surely the lesser makes would have to conform to the same rules as the big players..... Specially where ADRs are concerned...... All companies are subject to warranty, liability and r&d costs but most don't hike the up price to an extortionate value.

Me personally, I'd save the coin and go get a customized one from someone local, seeing as I don't have an airbag

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....

[Agronaught]

Dropped in and they were helpful on fitting the fairlead. Its on now, but its tighter than i would like and its going to be a bugger to remove.

It will work so ill leave it for now.

[mick.]

But surely the lesser makes would have to conform to the same rules as the big players..... Specially where ADRs are concerned...... All companies are subject to warranty, liability and r&d costs but most don't hike the up price to an extortionate value.

Me personally, I'd save the coin and go get a customized one from someone local, seeing as I don't have an airbag

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....Your exactly right.

We have to go though heaps of crap to get our original horse floats built when we started out. We had to make detailed plans, show how our weight distribution would be where the axles needed to be to stop the trailer wagging in the rear, when you fit water tanks you have to follow EPA laws as well.

Liability well you can imagine what would happen if a 4000 tonne trailer came off a car.

Westy I was talking about rear bars not bull bars and I know for a fact there are no crumple zones or any air bar sensors in a rear bar so again there is no way in hell there is $5000 in a rear bar. All the crap you are using to justify pricing of these bars is exactly the same for anything that's on the road and in our case with our floats there is a hell of a lot more in the way of R&D, insurance, Liabilities etc then any rear bar not to mention we have to meet a lot stricter ADRs especially when your talking anything built over 4.5 tonne rating. Then every one of them has to be individually certified t go on the road unlike a mass produced bar.

We are not pumping 1000 a day out of jigs either so there is no way you can explain or justify the ludicrous prices other then another Australian companies ripping off Australians. ARB lockers is another prime example of this. You can buy them overseas cheaper then here and you wonder why no one will buy off the companies.

[BigRAWesty]

But you design a trailer once, and test it once and your good...
These guys are designing, R & D'n, testing and producing up to 4 New, different bars, front or rear, a year...
Im with you that yes prices are a pit exy... But they fit. No if buts or maybys.. they bolt up and work...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[taslucas]

But you design a trailer once, and test it once and your good...
These guys are designing, R & D'n, testing and producing up to 4 New, different bars, front or rear, a year...
Im with you that yes prices are a pit exy... But they fit. No if buts or maybys.. they bolt up and work...]Westy's Accessories[/URL]

According to the original post, there were lots of ifs and buts, it didnt bolt up, and didnt work!?

Tap, crackle, pop

[BigRAWesty]

According to the original post, there were lots of ifs and buts, it didnt bolt up, and didnt work!?

Tap, crackle, pop

Yea the bar in question didn't, but it didn't cost $3000+ . If it did then yea, massive rip off

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[threedogs]

X 2 Lucas Wandered a tad guys
NO COMPETITION so, if its the only one available,
they can charge what they like I suppose, they are well built, but not designed for towing

[Clunk]

X 2 Lucas Wandered a tad guys
NO COMPETITION so, if its the only one available,
they can charge what they like I suppose, they are well built, but not designed for towing

And because of the price, folk search elsewhere. Not saying they don't have good products but in my eyes they're not worth that sort of money.

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....

[Clunk]

Just putting this one out there, maybe it's the car that's not straight and maybe the product is ok........

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....

[threedogs]

True Clunk very true, but not much we the poor consumer can do I suppose

[Maxhead]

You don't have to pay big bucks for quality Australian made product.

I stayed clear of Powerfull and MCC for one reason and that was because they are made overseas and with like lots of products from there there is no QC.
Yeah Kaymar is just a rip off but there are other options.

[threedogs]

Ultimate 4wd over WA do a quality bar {beware of copies} not sure on price,
Yeah stay clear of Chinese stuff, or you'll be starting another thread that starts with Bwaaaah ha

[MQ MAD]

Just putting this one out there, maybe it's the car that's not straight and maybe the product is ok........

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....

Absolutely correct ......
Even brand new off the showroom cars can be and have been damaged before or during dealership delivery
Not like the people unloading from the docks give a hoot
So even something new mite be different in some measurements between a few rigs .....
IF a rear bar,bullbar is done in a minimal movement jig,theres a good chance that within 100 from that jig , 99.9 % will be exactly the same
If the parts are pre cut on an CNC machine the tolerance within 100 bars will be 99 % correct
I worked at a panel beaters way way back when 80 % of their work were new pre delivered cars

Now with the materials used, anyone thought of it costs more to build than material alone ...
Advertising,companiy cars, workers wages,compo,sickies,liability insurance issues both public on premises and product,power,tools, consumables, rents
If the bars in total out the door cost 300 and someone charged 5 K,thats a rip off,not saying it costs that less or even 4999 to make
But huge events sponsored by huge companies come from somewhere,you as the consumer generate profits that some companies spend on events
So next time you see a full page add in a magazine, a 3 minute add on telly,massive billboards around the place,youll see where the ,what some call,massive mark up goes
One of my mates just shut shop,as he wasnt making money
Council charged him a fee of a few grand a year for his billboards,air/space tax or whatever they called it, then paid the land owner an amount a year for it to be there
Then payed 4500 a month for a small yard,around 800 sqm ,plus all overheads,power,fone,insurance,security ect on top
No wonder smaller backyard operations are doin stuff cheaper,they dont wear the overheads

[Stropp]

Just putting this one out there, maybe it's the car that's not straight and maybe the product is ok........

Don't stroke it, TAP it!!!!.....

true there clunky, i recently purchased a part for my car that was i assume plasma cut and it did not quite line up so i had to slightly grind it down to get the holes to line up, the other side went on perfectly, but as my patrol is a 2004 who knows whats happened previously or if indeed it was a monday morning car.

[Drewboyaus]

X 2 Lucas Wandered a tad guys
NO COMPETITION so, if its the only one available,
they can charge what they like I suppose, they are well built, but not designed for towing

Spot on 3D. At the end if the day, they have the best product at a price people are prepared to pay.
As a sales exec, that's my job to maximise the profit for the business through maintaining sales margins as high as possible. We sell a premium product with plenty of backup and have many satisfied customers who pay more than what somebody else might for a different product, comfortable that ours won't fail (unlike some of the competition).....kinda like buying insurance.
If Kaymar can get away with charging what they do, good luck to them. Personally, I will be putting a Milweld on the back of my GQ when it comes time as I'm not prepared to pay Kaymars price.....but then it doesn't appear like they need my business anyway.
Cheers
Drew


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mudski]

This joint reminds me of another dodgy place that's selling second rate 4by stuff. Hmm, Tigerz...

[Drewboyaus]

This joint reminds me of another dodgy place that's selling second rate 4by stuff. Hmm, Tigerz...

Don't say it......
You know how much he'll will break loose with just a hint of that name....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PMC]

i can remember going into their new show room when they first started in bankstown i walked in door and heard the fraze "fully shick mate!!!" spotted a birker and a shamrag and knew i was in the wrong shop.

i am not a racist but when saw the place was owned and run by (being politicly correct) people of middle eastern appearance i knew i would be dealling with them. i have heard some very daming reports from people who have fitted their products and even saw a wheel carrier fall of one of their rear bars.

on the flip side i am having a rear bar fitted to my patrol and had it ordered from MILWELD ENG in mansfield vic it turned up damaged in transit, not only did they dispatch a new bar with out question and free of charge they threw in a jerry can holder for my incoviences. as far as i know they are a aussie company and do all their fabrication in house and to order might be worth your while talking to them they are also cheaper then powerful 4x4's rear bar from memory

Good onya Bro!

I agree 100% with what you have stated mate!

Regards,

RLI

[hekarewe]

bundy dave thought i would throw up some pics of the new bar from milweld eng for you to see

[megatexture]

I like the jerry holders Adrian, I should have got one of the milweld bars but I can't complain I got my bumper replaced under insurance but you have done well mate looks great

[mick.]

But you design a trailer once, and test it once and your good...
These guys are designing, R & D'n, testing and producing up to 4 New, different bars, front or rear, a year...
Im with you that yes prices are a pit exy... But they fit. No if buts or maybys.. they bolt up and work...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)No thats not correct. We specialise in custom floats. Most of our floats are different from one to the next. The only thing the same is the widths. The lengths vary depending on how many horses, the axle positioning varies on the type of horses being towed weight etc, divider widths vary, divider heights vary, some have padding, some don't, some are telescopic and fully adjustable, window varies in sizes and postioning, floor height variations depending on alloy or hardwood, some have several cupboards, microwave, kitchen sinks, TVs, beds, roof racks, some have barn doors, some have tail gates, some have slide out ramps. We also set the draw bar towball weight to customers requirements be setting the axles up to suit. Not to mention the amount of prep work and sealling that goes into these floats prior to painting.

So you can see why I think these bars are a total rip off when we can build something with 20 times the amount of work and R&D for a little over double the price of a rear bar. $5000 is a total rip off any which way you look at it.

Cheers Mick.

[megatexture]

Both my wheel carrier latches snapped off on our Xmas hols trip they copped a beating but I would expect more to me it seems like a design fault