Reduction gears, front locker or both??

[Drewboyaus]

Hello all,
As I have been building my list of things to do to the Q next, I'm trying to decide between a few options. This will possibly open Pandora's box as there are some considerations that almost everybody has an opinion on. And that is what I'm looking for.......
In order to give my TB42E some more control, I've been tossing up the idea of reduction gears vs lockers. The thing is, I only plan on putting a locker in the front as I like the performance of the LSD both on the bitumen and dirt roads (rather than just an open diff when not locked).
For a dollar for dollar value equation, I reckon it is better to go with something like a Lock Right auto locker and this would possibly allow me to further improve the Q with a set of reduction gears for an all up similar cost to either an ARB or TJM air locker in the front on its own.
My questions:
What are everybody's thoughts on the addition of reduction gears as a method of improved control on the petrol donk (I at least have a manual 'box)?
Air vs auto locker?
The potential extra bang for buck of reduction gears plus auto locker for a similar cost to an air locker setup?
My chief concern with the auto locker is how it will affect my trucks ability to negotiate tracks I've done in the past like Trig Track with all those switchbacks?
May the fun and games begin....... :-)
Cheers,
Drew.

[growler2058]

I've got a loKKa brand auto locker and love it I would go the locker first as you got a manual so down hill in L1 gives quite good control tho would still get reduction gears later


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[taslucas]

What sort of terrain do you like to tackle? On anything even slightly slippery reduction gears won't help. Growlers seems very happy with his auto locker, as does everyone else that have one.

Tap, crackle, pop

[MEGOMONSTER]

35"s front locker, and red gears, yep sounds like a plan to me.


Never argue with an idiot, cos he'll bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
Pog mo th'oin.

[threedogs]

Front Pro locker, as rear slippery is great.
you also score a compressor to air up as well

[Drewboyaus]

Hey Lucas,
Most of my driving is High Country stuff......steep. That's why I'm after a little more control than the compression of the petrol gives me on the way down and the lack of a crawler gear does on the way up the rocky bits. The slippery stuff in the high country is best driven with plenty of right boot! :-)
Threedogs, that's another job for me! I have a rather nice Bushranger compressor, it does a ripper job but I need to mount it under the seat. Trouble is, to do air lockers I need to add an air tank which adds a layer of complexity I cant be arsed with just yet!
I was thinking if I don't like the auto locker I can always take it out and bung an air-locker in .
Interestingly there seems to be more positive mail I read around the traps about the ProLocker than there is for the ARB flavour.....
Cheers,
Drew

[growler2058]

Check out 4wd systems LoKKa as well mate for around $400 fit ya self it's mighty good bang for ya buck!!!!!!


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[threedogs]

Mount the one gallon tank on the inside of chassis then use those push in air fittings easy as .
Where in Melb are You Tulla???

[Drewboyaus]

That was my ultimate plan, something like the tank attached to the chassis or under a seat somewhere.........
I'm pretty tempted by the $400 Lokka though.....that seem like very a good bang for buck mod. How tough is it driving switchbacks with an auto locker in?
I'm in Essendon mate.

[growler2058]

I dunno what a switch back is, but ive driven mine hard in sand, rocks, mud and plain ol dirt, some times a bit of throttle control is required but i got used toit in about 30 seconds

[taslucas]

I dunno what a switch back is, but ive driven mine hard in sand, rocks, mud and plain ol dirt, some times a bit of throttle control is required but i got used toit in about 30 seconds

I think he means switchbacks like on a road that's going up a steep hill when it turns back on itself.

Tap, crackle, pop

[Winnie]

I dunno what a switch back is, but ive driven mine hard in sand, rocks, mud and plain ol dirt, some times a bit of throttle control is required but i got used toit in about 30 seconds

Switchbacks as in real tight hairpin corners. 3 point turn kinda stuff (7 point turn in a patrol)

DIAL-A-TAP

[growler2058]

With a locker when you turn without throttle it unlocks so you don't loose that turning circle
With a bit on n off throttle control and turning you won't have a problem. Probably no good for an auto driver as their hand eye foot coordination is sh1t that's why they drive an auto hahhahahahahahhahahahaha


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[growler2058]

Switchbacks as in real tight hairpin corners. 3 point turn kinda stuff (7 point turn in a patrol)

DIAL-A-TAP

Drop it back in 2wd and flatten it and let the LSD do its thing ;)


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[taslucas]

With a locker when you turn without throttle it unlocks so you don't loose that turning circle
With a bit on n off throttle control and turning you won't have a problem. Probably no good for an auto driver as their hand eye foot coordination is sh1t that's why they drive an auto hahhahahahahahhahahahaha


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At least I know what a switchback is
Hahahaha

Tap, crackle, pop

[Drewboyaus]

[QUOTE=Winnie;303706]Switchbacks as in real tight hairpin corners. 3 point turn kinda stuff (7 point turn in a patrol)

That's the ticket....the kind of hairpins you find in the steep bits of the high country.....
I'm almost convinced of the auto locker in the front.....gee you can get the Lock-Right and Detroit ones plenty cheaper in the USA.......begs the question whether there is any difference between the 4WD Systems Lokka and the Lock-Right? The assumption is the Lock-Right would be better at nearly twice the price in Oz......until you check out a few websites to find one can be landed here for the same or less! The Detroits are half the price they are here in Oz and that's landed.
No wonder Aussie consumers are pissed off with retailers at the moment......actually I shouldn't get myself started on hijacking my own thread, LOL, I could go on for hours.........

[Drewboyaus]

Well, looking at the price I can buy a Detroit locker from the USA for, shipped to my door, I reckon that's the one I will go with.
All up only another 200-300 bucks over a Lokka for the best in the business seems like the way to go. With change over a manual locker of any flavour.



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[lhurley]

Well, looking at the price I can buy a Detroit locker from the USA for, shipped to my door, I reckon that's the one I will go with.
All up only another 200-300 bucks over a Lokka for the best in the business seems like the way to go. With change over a manual locker of any flavour.

Just be careful with the detroit locker as they are very harsh. Harsh in the sense that there is no slight slip when it is engaging, its 100% off then 100% on. It puts a lot of strain on your cv's etc and front end. i have heard of a few people with them destroying cv's on a regular basis.

My housemate (warnie on here) has a lock right if my memory serves correct and its a pretty good bit of kit. If he sees this he can correct me.

[healy]

I'd go the lokka which I have and it's bloody awesome best mod I've done havnt been stopped yet with it it is heavy on the arms but its better than hitting the gym lol

[Ben-e-boy]

I'm all for the auto locker. in your situation I would go the 43% gears. With the 85% the gears wine like buggery at about 30km which is the gears telling you to slow down your hurting me and I dont see much crawling from you victorians. too much right foot for my liking :)

edit.. you'll need to grind out the casing and the selecter fork to fit the 85%

[nissannewby]

Or just run it how it is. Who needs lockers or gears :p lol. Just kidding gears are on my to do list and will probably look at 85's due to wanting to run 37's

[threedogs]

Big call Newby, LOL I'd think reduction on an auto with a front locker would make an awesome set up

[Drewboyaus]

From what I have been reading the "harsh" Detroit locker is a design of some years ago that has been copied by Lock-Right, Lokka etc.
The newer design has far more flexibility about when it locks and unlocks and is referred to as a "soft locker". As opposed to a soft c$@"^#! Lol.
Apparently they still make the old school one but its designed for commercial vehicles.
I like the idea the Detroit will unlock with only a extra 50mm of travel in an opposing wheel. That should give very smooth transition from open to locked and back again.
I guess I'll find out soon enough once I get one in my hot hands and into the truck.....


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[ChrisN]

Newby to this forum but I'll throw in my thoughts: I have an auto box in the GQ and the gearing is therefore taller than manual, and an air-locker was already in the front axle when I bought it. After my first trip to the high country with the auto my first priority was reduction gears in the transfer case. In a side-by-side comparison down a steep stretch other cars in low first were crawling along on a closed throttle at about 7 kmph, while mine was straining at leash at 15kmph. The reduction gears have fixed that and have effectively given me another gear below first. You need traction (and therefore a front locker) too of course - but the lower gearing keeps speed down to a speed that reduces problems when you strike the zero-traction spots. I had a Lock-Rite in the Mazda B2600 (my first 4wd) and would not use one again in the front axel as the effect on steering was such that I found I wanted to drop out of 4wd at every opportunity.

I have a spreadsheet set up to let me play with the different ratios and tyre sizes to see the effect on road speed at engine revs - PM me for a copy if you'd like to play with it.

[90mav]

I guess the question is whether you need the gearing to counter a gearing problem (tyres too tall?), or just to help a petrol engine work easier.
Are we talking diff gears or transfer gears?
I dont like front lockers generally just because of the potential for cv damage off road which sucks when you are not near a workshop.
A front locker wont help you get unstuck, but may get you into more dramas.
Personally I would go the low gearing and stick bigger tyres on.

[Drewboyaus]

I've got 33's on already and not overly keen to go any bigger as I'm setting it up in more of a tourer style to carry the family to interesting places. And once I go up a tire size again there is the search for more power (with the gears) to drive it....
Was looking at transfer gearing (43% reduction) to give me a little more low range control in the petrol. Mines a manual but I like the idea of being able to crawl up and down a little better.
I think I've decided to save up a bit extra dosh and go with one of the Harrop/Eaton E-lockers in the front.


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[threedogs]

Yeah all good points Reduction gears in an Auto Oh Yeah. myself
I'm just fitting a Pro-locker to the front, my last 4x4 had twin lockers
and went everywhere it was pointed.

[hekarewe]

i Have an 03 GU and have fitted a Goanna auto lokka from 4wd systems in SA got mine when they were having a sale. normal price is around the $500.00 mark plus fitting have also fitted Marks addaptors gear master reduction gears at 43% reduction. to say that i like the auto lokka is an understatement!! the auto lokka works a treat and allows you to steer with ease when your working it. and as for the reduction gear they have just made the GU and totally different car altogether so much more control and much better at holding the power on with out bashing the crap out of the car by going to fast highly recomend doing both auto lokka and the reduction gears.

as for fittingunlees you are exeptionallly good at mechanics get it done by a proffessional as the auto lokka can be a tight fit into the front diff and the reduction gears require a lot of grinding to modifiy the inside of the tranfer housing to be able to fit the gears into the casing also you will need to press in bearings and shafts as they got together very different to how they come apart found that after talking the guys at torq 4x4 after they did mine

[Drewboyaus]

Hek,
The only thing really holding me back from installing an auto locker is their perceived limitation on downhill wet/muddy sections of track. A number of folk describe extreme under steer under those conditions. As most of my driving is high country and in areas, where when wet can be very steep and slippery I'd be interested to hear how it goes under those conditions.


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[Morton]

I have a 92 Maverick TB42 5 speed, runs 35's, 85 reduction, lockrite in the front, it has no real power on the road or uphill but I dont care, it sits on 110kph on the highway, but off road it is a weapon, sucks on sand cause of the muddies but I dont fish, incase your not aware reduction is only in low not high, I love this setup, does almost everything I throw it at, to be honest I am bored of it because it does everything well but it is a very good setup, you just have to remember not to back off as it will disengage the locka but you soon learn how to drive with one, you wont regret it in my book but in my opinion from what you are describing I would be looking at an airlocker with 43 reduction but that is only my opinion.

I am doing the high Country in April next year & taking my GU, I have the advantage that 2 members (both with GU's) of my club run different reduction gears & locker combinations so I will be able to decide what to fit in the GU, I think at this moment that I would fit 43 reduction but a lockrite simply because it is cheaper but will request an off road drive in both in the hopes of nailing the correct setup for me & what I want to do