Supercharging ?

[makeitfit]

Hi guys, I'm settling in to my trol now and think I'm pretty sold on supercharging the old girl :driving2:
I've done a few searches but can't really find any in detail "how we did it" type threads.
Anybody point me in the right direction please.
Don't worry about costs I can make most things or know a man who can :D
The last few times I've been off in the mud the revs never really get high enough to worry a turbo into removing it's slippers lol
4.2 straight 6just tugs along at 1200 rpm.
Your thoughts please :smiley_thumbs_up:

[Diesel-Mate]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PRO-SUPERCHARGER-C2-MODEL-UNIVERSAL-/221157448756?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337e02dc34&_uhb=1

I'm sure you could do something with that sort of design but the turbo should be on a fair boost at those revs have you had a proper tune?

[makeitfit]

Ah sorry should have said, I don't have a turbo. It's just a N/A oil burner :/
That design does look a lot easier to fit than what I'd been looking at like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300818520528?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Anybody else got any leads ?

[stevogq]

your pretty much only choice is the s/c that diesel-mate said the one that bolts on the side, the one your looking at is designed to sit ontop of the manifold for v8s it wont adapt to your motor.

good luck should be a ripper! :smiley_thumbs_up:

[makeitfit]

I'd seen a few of those V8 ones strapped to the side of oil burners on youtube. I just assumed a sort of bolt on plate and port had been made to go onto the plenum end of the S/C
I'll work something out but would be nice to work on someone else's mistakes lol
Watch this space ;)

[stevogq]

imo those are more work to muckaround with i prefur the other s/c looks neeter and takes less space.

imm be following this build for sure! i like s/c better than turbos tbh

[makeitfit]

imo those are more work to muckaround with i prefur the other s/c looks neeter and takes less space.
That's agreed , I like it lots, just a shame about the price :/ I'm searching for that type now. Any idea if that type of s/c is used on any cars/trucks you know ?

[stevogq]

nah i dont

[Diesel-Mate]

Hey mate look at this thread http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=115742 the guy gave up on the project because there was too much modding to do with roots s/c. I think you could easily s/c your td42 by using a setup similar to my first post. You could then position the s/c any where you want and use the original plenum chamber Sewell with a few silicon bends :)

[nissannewby]

I know you want to do something different but the trend of turbos is there for a reason. The technology available and knowledge with modifications to turbos these days is excellent and boost response is pretty close to comparable with a supercharger. Fuel control will be easier with a turbo and a supercharger needs power to make power.

I have an example. I have just swapped the turbo in my GU TD42 for a larger modified item and although it is a much larger item boost response is on par with the smaller item and it can be pushing 20psi at 2000rpm.

There have been a few done and in the same style you are talking where they make an adaptor plate and bolt them straight to the manifold. Boost response is great and to make the most of it would need to run a smaller pulley to keep the boost climbing as the fuel increases. Like others have said the majority of the work in something like this is fitting it up. You seem handy with the tools so keep us posted as you go. I havent looked at the links but Im assuming they are a centrifugal supercharger. Research will be the key on this one.

[makeitfit]

Thanks for all the input guys, points noted ta ;)
I was going to go usual turbo mod but found my main operating rev range is surprisingly low MOST of the time . Admittedly the turbo will out perform the S/C on the way to an event for sure. I'm also aware of the power drain in the 1st place to run the s/c but in real terms that's only about 4-6 hp using a M112 (according to Eaton ) I've got a charge cooled intercooler to go on and will also be doing an LPG injection system into the package :-) I've done the lpg before and that alone gives a pretty impressive slap in the back.
In a cash rich dream world I visit most nights I'd have the s/c boosting straight into a massahoosive turbo in series and stuff that lot into a custom inlet manifold ;)................................meanwhile back in the real world :/
I'll be liberating a jag of it's supercharger this week and see what can be done with that to start with. I'm always on a budget:@

[JonnoD]

Have you done much research in to what type (posative displacement / centrafugal) blower you want. I know that you are looking at how to mount it but from what you are saying you would be after a posative displacement s/c as they provide boost all the time where as the centrafugal blower takes time to build boost (it pretty much is a half of a turbo)

[BigRAWesty]

Has anyone just taken a turbo compressor and bolted a pulley to front of it??

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?15134-Westy-s-Accessories.-A-small-back-yard-builder.)

[davo94]

There was a short wheel base gq with a eaton m90 removed from a v6 commodore (l67 v6 buick engine) on ebay months ago.

[makeitfit]

Have you done much research in to what type (posative displacement / centrafugal) blower you want. I know that you are looking at how to mount it but from what you are saying you would be after a posative displacement s/c as they provide boost all the time where as the centrafugal blower takes time to build boost (it pretty much is a half of a turbo)
As I understand it the Eaton is positive disp type . M112 has the capacity for 14psi on a 4lt engine. Different pulleys are available to vary that psi figure ;)
I've also found the Eaton type is easy to renovate with new bearings etc. Not as fiddly inside as turbo :)
Things are moving now ?!

[makeitfit]

There was a short wheel base gq with a eaton m90 removed from a v6 commodore (l67 v6 buick engine) on ebay months ago.
Cheers for that, I found a link to it but the pics were gone. M90 is too small too. Would have been nice to see the basic mechanics of the fixings is all ;)

[davo94]

I had the m90 on a v6 3.8l running 14psi intercooled at just shy of 300rwhp.
Its not in its efficiency range in the higher rpm range however with the low rpm-power you seeking dont look past it.

[davo94]

Found the pichttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/11/121.jpg

[makeitfit]

Ah ha cheers for that ;) Strange but more difficult to find the M90 over here. plenty of M112 though as they appear to be on plenty of Jags, and they are easy to get from the scrappy ;)
What sort of intercooler did you use?
I had been thinking of putting the s/c the other side so I could put a top mount charge cooled i/c over the engine. So basically inline to the inlet manifold.

[davo94]

look at l67torque.net
That will show you how us aussies do it.

[makeitfit]

Nice one ta, I'll nip over there now ;)

[makeitfit]

Well that site wont let me register. It keeps saying it wont allow my email address and one other thing is wrong ? Eh ? what thing?
phft :/

[davo94]

google L67 and look at the forums?

[makeitfit]

Nope still can't get on or find administrators without being registered :/
hey ho.............

[makeitfit]

Santa has found me a supercharger :Yahoo!:
( an elf was not harmed in gaining this information) :santa:
Crimbo spanners me thinks , watch this space :cool:

[taslucas]

Watching in eager anticipation:-)

Tap, crackle, pop

[threedogs]

waiting, waiting, waiting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[MEGOMONSTER]

I think when he said watch this space, he really meant watch this SPACE
23423

[makeitfit]

There will be some more space for a week chaps :/ Looks like a nice crimbo build ;)

[makeitfit]

The beast is unleashed :santa: cheers santa ;)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20121225_152654.jpg
Hopefully this will put the wind up the old oil burner :thumbup:
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20121225_151854.jpg
I'll start mocking up some brackets tomorrow I reckon :gday:

[threedogs]

Nice, few extra ponies there mate, bet you're hanging to get it fired now.
running a wide belt ? Will it fit under bonnet or will you need to cut it.?

[The BigFella]

Awesome,,,,, "huff n puff" is so much better than a turbo. I luv blowers, you have reminded me I have one somewhere in the shed. One of those small Toyota jobs,,,, best go try and find it I guess.

[makeitfit]

Yep it'll be on a wide belt ;) Blower came off a Volvo truck with a 5.something diesel straight 6 in it. Should be plenty of puff to crank 10 or 12 PSI up the rev range :-)
It has an electromagnetic clutch too , should be handy .
Intercooler research continues but probably end up with a huge one somewhere in the system .

[The BigFella]

Sweeeeeet!

[Mojo01]

my advice for extra ponys... stuff the blower and the turbo.. by the conversion plate and bolt in a 350 chev, a mates done it to his MAV... its a beast, pulls anything, sounds means as @#$^, and I cant wait till my motors fubar so the ball and chain will let me do the conversion

[makeitfit]

Aye you're right in a way but I have no bucks let alone a chevy lump lying about :/ I'll make this sing no worries. I'm putting LPG injection on it too and blinking great intercooler :)
I did a 2.7 nissan terrano on lpg and big i/ c and that rips the pee out of the V8 boys , ha ha and it doesnt drown itself under water ;)

[Mojo01]

it dont have to be a chev btw

http://www.marks4wd.com

make adapter plates for just about everything nowdays, and their super low range gear sets are AWESOME

I would like to see that 2.7 terrano tow my mates 28ft boat.. the chev dont even know its there lol

[makeitfit]

Got a bit of spanner time on this as it's stopped raining again :clapping:
Plenty of room here for the blower I reckon
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130101_144236.jpg
Test fit ish, just to see how it might work.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130101_143749.jpg
Mocked up some brackets with cardboard and made these
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130101_190822.jpg
5mm steel bent into shape, trimmed and drilled
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130104_174334.jpg
Bit of gusset support :devilred:
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130104_180600.jpg
Bolted onto zorst mani
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130105_171004.jpg
Front view
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130105_171021.jpg
Supercharger now bolted in
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130107_190412.jpg
Working on the drive end of things now :trink13:

[Alitis007]

Looks great but usually the charger is driven by the crank shaft, since you don't have an air conditioner wouldn't it have been ideal to install it to where the compressor should sit? That way it could be driven by a fan belt because the harmonic balancer has a provision for the extra belt!

[makeitfit]

Yeh but the extra slot is a simple V belt. That won't take the strain and would slip. So there's a new poly V pulley being made up to fit on the crank pulley :) A bit like this
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Harmonicbalancer_zps704fd642.jpg
Old viscous fan now gone and will be replaced by twin electric fans shortly :-) So there's plenty of room for the flat belt.

[MC97GQ]

Hey makeitfit,

I take it the supercharger is bolted to your exhaust manifold studs, how do you think it will handle the extra weight, I would hate to see those manifold studs snap, do you think you should make some flexible brackets to bolt back to the body or chassis to alleviate the potential stresses.
Any way mate watching this with interest, good luck

Mark

[makeitfit]

Hard to say at the mo but yes will take some support from lower down on the block. That's to stop any twisting in the brackets. I don't think weight will be an issue. The S/C weighs about 20 kg so that's an extra 5kg per stud, but then that's no biggie . Can't fix to chassis or body as they all move separately from engine . It's all a bit of an adventure ;)

[taslucas]

Keep up the good work mate. Looking good. Can't wait to see and hear it running:-)

Tap, crackle, pop

[Alitis007]

Yeh but the extra slot is a simple V belt. That won't take the strain and would slip. So there's a new poly V pulley being made up to fit on the crank pulley :) A bit like this
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Harmonicbalancer_zps704fd642.jpg
Old viscous fan now gone and will be replaced by twin electric fans shortly :-) So there's plenty of room for the flat belt.
I understand that the V belt would slip and the multi ribbed belt has a greater surface area but u would have to get a pulley made up to suit for ie 5pk or 6pk serpentine belt but the charger is sitting too far back, it needs to be brought forward. And i would make its brackets to work as a hinge with an adjustment bolt setup like the power steering pump bracket that way you would have less moving parts, easier to adjust the belt if needed and no heat soak from the exhsust.

[taslucas]

You could put a snout on the 'charger the same as in v8 applications.

Tap, crackle, pop

[makeitfit]

Ah ha, yes it does have a snout but not made the front bracket for it yet. Here it is though http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?16395-Supercharging&p=310125&viewfull=1#post310125
I've had it in place and the pulley is positioned just in front of the alternator belt. Any further forward and it'll be out the front lol

[makeitfit]

Here you go snout and clutch assy in place http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130109_151115.jpg
Just enough room here for the belt in front of the alternator belt ;) http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/20130109_151130.jpg

[taslucas]

Nice fit:-)

Tap, crackle, pop

[Ben-e-boy]

that snout is quite long. are you going to brace it?

[makeitfit]

that snout is quite long. are you going to brace it?
Yep two brackets done now for my enormous shaft ;)

[taslucas]

Can we hear it yet? Lol

Tap, crackle, pop

[threedogs]

Been crook hows the build coming along, are you cutting a slot out of bonnet or is all ok

[makeitfit]

Can we hear it yet? Lol

Tap, crackle, pop
Only in my head at the mo lol
I'm hoping to keep the bonnet without a power bulge ;)
Mind you there will be a ruddy great scoop on there eventually for the intercooler....................................... .............unless I decide to put the rad in the back and fit a FMIC instead :-)

[Alitis007]

Only in my head at the mo lol
I'm hoping to keep the bonnet without a power bulge ;)
Mind you there will be a ruddy great scoop on there eventually for the intercooler....................................... .............unless I decide to put the rad in the back and fit a FMIC instead :-)

Top mount the cooler, the shorter your air system is the less lag you will get

[taslucas]

Top mount the cooler, the shorter your air system is the less lag you will get

Isn't lag more associated with turbo's not superchargers? Superchargers being a constant and not having to spool up?

Tap, crackle, pop

[makeitfit]

Isn't lag more associated with turbo's not superchargers? Superchargers being a constant and not having to spool up?

Tap, crackle, pop
That's what I understood too. Boost from tick over all the way up. Down side ofcourse is heated charge, therefore big intercooler is a good idea. Pretty sure it'll be top mount now anyway. Not prepared to loose the space in the back for the rad just yet .
While I'm waiting for the bottom pulley to be made I'll be doing a twin fan cooling job on the stock radiator. Then a fan cooled T/M I/C and assorted I/C mounts etc etc :/

[Alitis007]

Isn't lag more associated with turbo's not superchargers? Superchargers being a constant and not having to spool up?

Tap, crackle, pop

Most chargers sit right over the intake ports of the head/ heads so you wouldn't have any lag, but when you have cooler and piping thats a cavity you need to pressurize. Think of it as a tube, your compressor might have 170psi in its tank but when you squeeze the trigger it takes a minute to start building pressure. I could be wrong i haven't really played with chargers just with turbos and in all my cars i've had them hitting boost at around the factory mark no matter how high its wound.

[taslucas]

Yeah the cavity needs to pressurise but that only happens once at start up. They don't "spool up" like a turbo, they are a constant so my guess would be a couple of seconds to pressurise the piping then constant pressure until engine stops

Tap, crackle, pop

[Alitis007]

Your probably right mate, see when this blokes dose and what feed back he gives hey!

[Pezzer]

How did the build go?

[CmonSnipeMe]

whats going on with this build very interested to see the results

[makeitfit]

I hit a wall time wise :/ I've got a shed load of jobs on the go and none of them finished.
Sooo, I'm picking them off one by one at the mo.
It'll be updated though just as soon as I can get some more money in, damn customers lol

[OAK PATROL 88]

I guess the project is no more. bummer was really keen to see what came of it.