Help with LPG System

[shaun100]

Hi All,

Ive had my Patrol about 6 months and the LPG was in it when I bought it.

Never had a drama till yesterday.

Driving through a shopping centre carpark the controller started flashing and beeping.

It stopped if I pressed the button but the lights continued to flash.

Im not sure what system it is as its my very first car with LPG. Ive attached a few pics of the bits n pieces.

Does anyone know what system it would be and possibly what the problem may be?

Thanks in advance

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/shaunv8/IMG_0555.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/shaunv8/IMG_0554.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/shaunv8/IMG_0553.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g245/shaunv8/IMG_0552.jpg

[Uncle Festa]

Hi Shaun100,
Yep looks the same as system on my GQ TB42E. Although I would need to see a pic of your gas ECU which should be in the engine bay there close to the Converter pic you are showing. If it is all the same as mine then it is a KME system. Had a lot of trouble with mine over a long time but eventually figured it out. Your problem sounds exactly the same issue I had. which is- The blue solenoid on top of converter/regulator as shown in pic, can't cope with high temperature from the converter it is mounted on and when temp gets too high it fails and shuts of gas, switching engine back to petrol. If you turn engine of for a while say an hour, and leave to cool down it will then run again on gas right? My issue was when you turned of engine for a short while say 10 mins and started again it would do what yours is doing ie lights flash and audible alarm. This was due to coolant temp increasing after turning of as coolant is no longer moving through engine and keeping things cool and therefore LPG converter gets hotter and solenoid fails. All electrical components generally have a temp limit after which they may not fail, but won't work as they should. The quick solution/remedy is to take valve/plunger out of solenoid so it is then ineffective. The problem with doing just this is it is not as safe, as LPG supply hose from tank is then only isolated at tank when you switch engine off. The idea of solenoid on converter is that LPG supply from tank is also isolated at converter. So you will need to get an installer to fit a new solenoid before converter( so it is not mounted on converter and won't get too hot) and therefore is still safe particularly if you have a leak or an accident. Quite sure this will solve your problem. Apparently KME recognise this issue and have made recommendations to solve it. If you press LPG control button twice then it should first turn of alarm and then lights and you are then running on petrol. Push again to go back to gas.
Good luck, Uncle Festa

[shaun100]

You pretty much nailed it mate.

Thanks for your help,

Ill look into the removal of plunger in the short term, do you have any ideas how to do this?

Cheers

[Robo]

heat soak is the problem by the sounds of it.
might be an idea to service the cooling system, and replace/upgrade any sus componite.
not saying this is the answer but may help.
and if not then at least cooling system wont be taxed as much this summer.
good luck

[Uncle Festa]

Yep, first need to make sure converter is empty of gas. Run engine on gas and turn of isolating valve at LPG tank. Usually a round brass knurled knob found on tank. Engine will falter and switch back to petrol when out of gas. Remove small nut on top of solenoid, slide of coil and bracket. Then from memory you will need a 14mm deep socket to remove brass fitting from top of converter, be careful not to damage hex section of fitting as it may be tight and socket may slip. Then simply remove plunger/valve from fitting and reassemble. Repressurise, run on gas[B] and make sure you don't have any leaks![B] Don't leave it too long before you get an installer to relocate solenoid off converter. Fairly sure if this is not done then it doesn't comply to regs and therefore illegal so to speak. But that of course is up to you.
Uncle Festa

[shaun100]

Well, I finally managed to find time to stop by an LPG company. Yes it is a KME system and he says there is no more assistance for these systems as they closed doors a few years ago.

His recommendation - Replace everything from firewall forward with a sprintgas system or similar, cost $2500. FARK.....

[threedogs]

Shite got to be not happy about that, IMO I'd be removing What Uncle F said or look at a squenctial system or GAS REASEARCH. maybe even comb the wreckers

[shaun100]

Yeah, Id like to give Festa's suggestion a go but dont wanna stuff anything up nor put myself and my kids in any sort of danger if somethings wrong....

[Agronaught]

Only cost me $300 for a new converter on a mixer system.

[Uncle Festa]

I can tell you that my KME system now that it is sorted, runs really well and is almost on par with petrol as far as performance/driveability goes. I can give you the name of the guy that helped me sort it out. He is really switched on and will spend the time with you to relocate solenoid, he will also remap/adjust injectors via a laptop if you want him to, which is good to do to get it running really well to give maximum efficency. And although he is a bit unorganised, he knew what he was doing and is into the technical side of things. Sure it will cost you for his time to do this, but then you won't have to spend money on any other equipment. Anyway his name is Warren Christie 0414849606 and although I haven't spoke to him for a while I would be surprised if isn't still around. Can't hurt to give him a call. Don't now your location, but he is at Morriset just south of Newcastle. Otherwise you should be able to get a good installer just to relocate solenoid which will solve your problem without to much expense. Talk to Warren and he will confirm what I have told you and then you can be confident to get it done locally if Warren can't do it for you. Warren also put the same KME system on his fathers Prado, and because he spent the time doing it properly, it was brilliant according to his father. This is partly why I persisted with it, thinking it would be good in the end. Which it is. Is still a bit temperamental when warming up, but otherwise runs really sweet, has great torque, and economy is as good as I will ever get on LPG. I have a GQ TB42E (4.2L) and if I try hard I can get 425 k's out of 90L of lpg. Even more if I am not carrying any weight. I am guessing you have a GU either 4.5 or 4.8L. If you have the 4.5L then you these are not very efficient compared to the 4.8 so your economy might not be so good. If you have the 4.8 then I am envious. I actually want to put a 4.8 into a GQ as the GQ is 400 kilos lighter than the GU, giving me what I hope to be a huge advantage both in performance and economy but that's another story. Anyway, as much as I don't want to be cynical, your local installer probably wants to get what he can from you and would therefore rather sell you more equipment. Also of course he will be unfamiliar with the KME which won't help. If you decide to swap it, then let me know and I might be interested in buying KME system from you. Having said all this it would be completely understandable if you discarded KME to prevent any further problems as it will be hard to get back up service. The problem you (and I had) are having, will be one reason why it (KME)is no longer around as you can be sure you and I are not the only ones who had the problem. Warren didn't actually install my system, another guy did and because he didn't spend enough time doing it properly in the first place I had to sort out his poor install as well. But the main problem was the one you are having.
Injected gas systems (which is what you have) is more involved than just straight aspirated gas so you want to be sure you get a good installer to swap it to something else. It is also considerably superior to aspirated if it is done properly, so you really want to stick with the injected version, but it will cost more. Let me know if you I can be of any further help. Cheers, Uncle Festa

[threedogs]

Sounds like good advice from here

[shaun100]

Thanks mate,

Unfortunately Im in Perth and nobody seems to know about it nor really give a toss either :-(

[Uncle Festa]

You may not be aware, but government rebate ( currently $1,000 per person every 3 years, but reducing each year and according to website still available http://www.lpgcarconversion.com.au/autogas-fuel-government-rebate/) applicable to LPG conversions for existing vehicles, you will be probably be eligible for. Even though vehicle already has gas, it applies to the person not the vehicle if I am not mistaken. As long as installer gives you correct invoice saying install and not alterations then I would think you would receive rebate. Worth checking it out. I got it for mine. Was worth $2,000 at the time.
Also, don't forget I will/maybe interested in buying your KME system. So overall, a conversion to Sprintgas may not end up being to expensive overall. As far as I am aware, Sprintgas systems are pretty good.
Let me know if you decide.
Uncle Festa

[threedogs]

I'm sure most installers would write install no altered on the invoice, would be a win win for them and yourself
which ever way you look at it your up for some dollars, 1 how much new system with rebate will cost plus what
you can get for your old system. good luck with it though

[Robo]

The solenoid is a basic item, why not replace it and see.
Warranty claim possibility ?.
have it moved away from the heat ?.
Ask around LPG installers if they know of a problem with your type system and a solution.

[Uncle Festa]

Hey Robo,
is your surname Wilson?

[Robo]

Hey Robo,
is your surname Wilson?

NO, But Kicken around all over the place.
Hope I don't get lost at sea also. lmao.

[shaun100]

Problem solved, Festa -SPOT ON!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your help......

Total cost $235 including repairs and a gas tune.