Diesel on gas

[wildgu6]

Hey peeps, just sitting here chatting with a mate, a weee bit ?!$$@&d and he's tryin to tell me that diesels on gas go hard and cheaper to run.
Cheaper yer I can understand but can someone tell me If diesels do go harder on gas or not. I have never been a believer of gas powered anything but hot water and stoves.



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[threedogs]

First how can it be cheaper with gas at high prices, so now we're running 2 fuels plus $3500 to install, I have a 3 lt turbo diesel doing about 148 kw
how much power does your mate think you can get out of a 3 ltr diesel, not for me sorry some say increased power long time before you get your money back
Just a passing fad IMO still got me beat how it can be cheaper lol stop drinking and think Lol

[wildgu6]

10 pts td, exactly what I'm trying to tell him, stop drinking ya dreamin lol


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[threedogs]

Tell him,,,,,," here endeth the lesson"....lol

[macca86]

Diesel gas systems are great heaps better fuel economy and power figures should gas not be available can run straight diesel still. Sure you'll never recoop your out lay for your system but when you get new exhaust chips and inter coolers you never get it back either if I had the cash id do it. Diesel burns 70% complete with gas 90 to 95% complete more burn more power less particle emmisions better economy power and I'm lead to believe cooler running temps

[threedogs]

I know of two systems one drips one mists not 100% I've paid for one but it needs to be taken out of another 4x4
For the GU they told me the muffler will need to be cut, a few mods to fit every thing, just something else to go wrong. but as
you said run out of gas just runs normal. dont know how much power you would get

[wildgu6]

Mmmmm food for thought, maybe I should stop drinkin, thanks macca, impressive figures there mate. and now we have a stale mate,


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[threedogs]

So wild you'd pay say $3500 plus for what say 105 power increase and slightly better fuel figure.
remember its costing more to fill up even if only using very little, but its all money

[wildgu6]

Nah td like I said in the first post, not a believer in gas mate and wouldn't even contemplate puttin any vehicle on gas, but good to see the pros and cons from those in the know.


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[macca86]

I've heard figures of 20 to 30% increase in power and economy from really old threads on this topic. If you got a chip and exhaust package 1000 for exhaust and 1400 for a chip or 3500 for the gas I've heard ( don't quote me just hear say and what I've read not seen or tested) you'd get more power and economy from the gas so it would pay off better than the other mods plus oil doesn't get dirty due to cleaner burn less particles less engine wear and cooler running temps due to less diesel being used.

[macca86]

All big pros for a di zd30 motor. My bank balance does not allow me to scratch the surface of my wish list this gas mod is on it but way way way down the line or an Eaton supercharged 6.6 duramax dream big boys haha

[threedogs]

I like you 2nd idea heaps, always been a horses for courses kinda guy

[macca86]

Need a spare 25 g to pull it off but low down torque 85% reduction gears we wouldn't need a tractor at the farm

[threedogs]

Thats what I mean just a great all rounder, sit on 110 kph all day every day, "LIFE COULD BE A DREAM"

[macca86]

Turbos are great for power and high end work but in my opinion for a 4wd supercharge it (positive displacement charger i.e. Eaton) full boost torque and power at idle and no lag all grunt. Or I've seen a eaton/ turbo setup in a commodore Eaton for it getting off the line dinner plate turbo spooled at 4500 rpm then the fury began

[threedogs]

Can only wish I'm afraid, surely they have some over Saudi way they love the fast stuff over there.

[nissannewby]

Being a diesel fitter I am yet to be sold on adding gas to a diesel fuel system. The gains can be good yes, but like a gas pwered petrol car it has its downfalls. To get the best out of it head work is recommended, temps will be higher on the intake and combustion side of things and pre ignition due to gas have a lower ignition point could also lead to dramas. For the same money you will get the same benefits without the trouble of an extra system with things like intercoolers, turbos, exhausts, head work and chips, fuel pumps etc. I have seen much better benefits out of a water meth injection system which are proven and cheap to install.

[macca86]

To TRUE if it were the bees knees every industrial and commercial diesel would run it. Id still like to try it to see the benefits

[Jock]

Burning valve seats out may be an issue. I have a commodore on gas and had to have the head reworked after backfiring under load. $1800 to rework and fit/retune. So I would investigate thoroughly. If you are not going to do better than break even, then ?

[threedogs]

How quick you think these Z30 can go, chipped and exhaust, flash intercooler set up , we at the limit yet and keeping reliability still
sheeeesh its only a 4 pot T/D slug. IMO

[nipagu7]

Just thought i'd put my 2 cents worth in . Most people I Know that modify their cars to get more power out of them don't really need or use the extra power , in the odd case where they tow a heavy boat or van a lot or the car is loaded up to the limits constantly with work gear , mods like exhausts , modules and even diesel gas or combinations thereof , can be worthwhile as they already own the vehicle and it is otherwise fit for purpose . Selling the car to buy something that only offers more power , or putting amore powerful motor in the car such as a LS1 or V8 diesel could be a much more expensive exercise . And generally with the issue of fuel economy I think it comes down to driving styles and having the motor tuned properly for the particular setup you have ,as many people just bolt parts on and expect the the problem to be solved . personally i'd rather take a few more minutes to get somewhere and enjoy the ride than worry about the price of fuel , or increase the risk of not getting there at all .

[choppie]

Mmmmm food for thought, maybe I should stop drinkin, thanks macca, impressive figures there mate. and now we have a stale mate,


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That's what they make drawing boards for. LOL

[Shaunous]

This LPG and Diesel thing I stuffed around a bit with on Prime Movers years back, there is a fair few transport companies still running it I beleive.

Firstly, You are not adding LPG for power, you are detuning the diesel side of things, and replacing that power with a cheaper fuel alternative, being the LPG. e.g. 100% Diesel converted to 75% Diesel/25% LPG. It would hardly be economic for you and me, but for a transport company with a fleet of trucks doing thousands of kilometers a week, it would...

I dont know what they are doing for light vehicles, but for the heavy diesels, this is the case. If it is true and companies are suggesting to adding LPG on top, so you are now getting e.g. 125% power just in fuel additions, i would stay the hell away.

Cheers,
Shaun...

[makeitfit]

Have to add my bit :devilred:
I've done my own LPG on Diesel conversion. it is simply awesome. I fitted the kit myself, it is easy, and then got the installation tested by a gas fitting company who then issued my Safety certificate :bananarock:
Simply put the LPG acts as an accelerant and as such burns nearly all the diesel charge . So instead of a typical 70% burn I now get over 95% burn. So that's about a 30% boost already :wink:
I have a small lpg tank that's an additional fuel remember and at about 15% by volume I get two full diesel fills per one lpg. Lpg here is half the price of diesel. i worked it out to be cheaper per mile to run the truck with the combined fuels based purely on the effective range of the truck.
Power and torque improved massively . I've had no overheating issues at all. I fitted an inertia switch in the system too, so if I do take a tumble offroad, or stop in a hurry , then the gas shuts down.
Cheapest power boost I've found .
There's loads of haulage companies here that use the system too as their speeds are regulated, this extra torque allows them to run in higher gears for longer and so saves on the expensive diesel bills.
If anyone's interested I'll post my intstall details. it's dead easy.

[Ricardo00]

Very interested, please do.

[Sir Roofy]

Sounds like a plan have a mate running gas and thinks its great

[makeitfit]

Very interested, please do.
Right then here's a quick write up on the LPG install I have on my Nissan Terrano 2.7 Turbo diesel. I use this for offroading fun and can assure you the install is tuff and simple.


I boarded out the back to keep the tank covered so I can still load my tools etc.
Cut the floor tunnel out and recut it and welded it back up so it's all flat behind the seats. Makes room for the tank to fit and still have a flat bed over it.
Alu channel section bolted to the side and alu angle and plate to support the front end. Vertical timber panel including speaker positions.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo222.jpg
Gas tank in situ just ready for strapping down. You can buy tank strap kits or make your own.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo225.jpg
Access panel just covers it all tidy
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo226.jpg
I bought the tank off a guy who never fitted it, so it was new , 25 quid, the gas filler I got off a scrapper, the regulator thingy was about 35 quid I think, it's got BRC "Tecno" on the box, bought the plastic coated copper pipe off fleabay and the cover hoses same place.
Bought new cut off solenoid and closed throttle solenoid too off ebay.
Tank straps from the scrap yard.
Here you can see the outer flexi hose connected to the "Top Hat" in the floor. That's so any leaks will vent outside. This is actually the fill hose, it has to go outside and then back in again! Sounds daft but it's so ANY leaks will always vent to the outside.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo256-1.jpg
Engine bay plumbing is like this .Simple rule is the feed pipe has to be in one piece from tank to evaporator or solenoid. It also needs to be clipped every 300mm. The evaporator makes sure any liquid gas gets vaporised before it gets to the engine. It's heated by the water from the cooling system.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo259.jpg
Heater hose T'd into for the evaporator
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo260-1.jpg
Safety solenoids wired in .
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo262-1.jpg
Fitted an extra micro switch on the throttle so there'll be no gas when off the loud pedal.
Inertia switch also for those , er, well horizontally challenged moments ;)
Here's a shot of the LPG venturi I made and fitted
Used the old oil blow by intake using a 22-15mm end feed reducer and a bit of 15mm copper. Banged an olive on one end for the hose to grip on and cut the other end at 45 degrees ish to make a crude venturi , it works fine .
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo278-1.jpg
Simply plumbed in to air intake pre turbo, that way it gets nicely mixed up before it gets to the intercooler or intake mani
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/Photo279.jpg
There's bound to be stuff I forgot , I did it a while ago.
I run it offroad and there's safety devices everywhere. Tank has it's own solenoid to stop over filling. Throttle has a micro switch on it so no pedal no LPG. inertia switch incase I hit something.
The whole lot is basic plumbing and it passed gas safety with flying colours :wink: