I'm stumped with this issue

[BigRAWesty]

On the weekend just gone I attended a fun run which turned out to be one huge mudfest!! :)
And from the weekend I have a small issue which can easily be fixed with a bit if cash but I want to nut this one out..

My issue is I keep getting hung up on the diffs.. Simple..
Now before you jump on the 'bigger tyres' wagon I have this question.

How did the father in-law do it all in a Prado on stock 31" street tyres??

Now I'm running 31" AT's with 2" lift.
I have an LSD rear diff, he has a locka.
Sure he has a bit more poke but mine wasn't dying.
Also his front is independent, but solid rear.

The only differences I can pick was he dropped his tyres at 18, while kept mine at 25.
Surly this can't be my issue? Or can it?
I know it's a big factor when on sand, but does the same apply for mud?


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[Bigrig]

No front diff to get hung up on? Is it a new wagon? Does it have that Kinetic suspension setup? As that travels pretty well from what I've heard.

What about the obvious (sorry mate) - was he picking a different/better line???

[BigRAWesty]

Only front end. Still solid rear.


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[Bigrig]

Only front end. Still solid rear.


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Sorry mate - read that and edited my post ...

[threedogs]

You'll also find that diff clearance is not all that much different from 4x4 to 4x4.
and X 2 with above

[BigRAWesty]

No front diff to get hung up on? Is it a new wagon? Does it have that Kinetic suspension setup? As that travels pretty well from what I've heard.

What about the obvious (sorry mate) - was he picking a different/better line???

It is a wagon and on road weights are about the same due to his having more accessories.
As far as I know it's a standard suspension system. An 06 Prado.


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[threedogs]

Yeah and let some air out to go 4x4ing whats just happened, you have lowered your diff, go figure.
I'd go and measure mine now but its raining in Mexico, 27 yesterday sounds right

Also 31" tyres are small as most would be running 285s or 33" [same]
then the guys running 33s bitch cause the guys running 35"s make the ruts too deep
then the guys with 35"s complain about the guys running 37"
Run 44" boggers problem solved

[macca86]

Traction momentum and the right line get you far. His being locked in front will get him further than you in a big way being independent front removes the front diff issue. Just pick your lines better thinking of tyre and diff placement

[Ben-e-boy]

TYRE PRESSURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! very often overlooked a couple of psi makes a big difference in any situation

[threedogs]

Save your cash for a diff lock and muddies, air down, pick the right line you wont be having this conversation. at all except
anyone see that Prado get stuck, good off road as they are STD

[BigRAWesty]

@ threedogs
As I said its a simple solution to just run 33's. But that's a simple way out with other issues like fuel usage and reduced power which in the old Q I can't really afford as its my everyday driver to.

@ macca86
Father in-laws is a locked rear, open front. Mine is LSD rear open front.

@ben-e-boy
As I asked above does dropping pressures really help in mud.
I choose 25 psi so I would increase traction a little, but not loose to much height.

As for choosing another line, it was a single line threw scrub. So either go the rut or take the pussy track.. No 2 ruts about it.. :p


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[BigRAWesty]

I'm not asking for upgrade advise. I'm simply got this issue were would letting down to 15psi instead of 25psi have had helped in mud??


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[threedogs]

Yes to answer your question and in mud turning from left to right for added traction.
my deflators are set at 16 psi, just keep your speed down. there is a thread somewhere showing
the different foot prints at different pressures, very interesting. Also momentem is your friend too

Is your "Q" coil or leaf???

[Chris79]

In answer to your question, yes pressures make a huge difference in mud.

2nd issue to think about is the size of the patrol diff/s vs prado rear diff.
Same size tyres big tuff diff on the patrol = less ground clearance.

Not to sure about prado's but general rule for other mid sized yota's like hilux/4runner was that 33" tyres = same diff clearance as 35" tyres on a patrol.

[Ben-e-boy]

[QUOTE=BigGQWesty;275022


@ben-e-boy
As I asked above does dropping pressures really help in mud.
I choose 25 psi so I would increase traction a little, but not loose to much height.

.[/QUOTE]

yeah mate tyre pressures make a difference in every situation whether it be mud sand, track racing, drag racing,

[BigRAWesty]

Yea I've seen the difference in foot prints on u-tube I think it was.
I just didn't think being mud and getting caught up would be help by lower tyre pressures.
But hay, I can change. Might try lower next time.

The Q is coils all round. I will be modding rear axial shock mounts as they look like nice mud catchers..


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[krbrooking]

You would be surprised at how much difference a few psi can make and the whole diff clearance all it needs is that bolt that hangs down to clip the wright rock or stump to break momentum and lift the wheel slightly to break traction at the exact wright time to stop you in your tracks.

You will also find as you lower the psi the wall if your tyre will widen and place more groves in the mud.

[MudRunnerTD]

As others have noted the tyre pressure will make a Massive difference. The tyre track length could be 50% longer from 25 to 18!

Question: who was driving at the front? If you we're goin first the. You were the Grader and the dirt was moved out of the way by the massive Patrol Diff and the Prados little diff cleared the scraped ground with ease!

I would not worry about compromising the rear lower shock mounts by cutting them off bud, fittin some 285s or 33s will be much less stuffing around and the GQ will easily turn a 33

[BigRAWesty]

So tyre pressure does help. I'll try lower again next year at the funrun.

It was a fun run so I'm guessing there would have been 20 or so vehicles in front of me. But enough time for the water to flood back in.

I would grab a set of 33's but that's is a fair bit off budget.
And I'm a structural welder by trade so I'll be making those shock mounts tough as nails...





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[MudRunnerTD]

How many of the 20 cars ahead of you we're running little 31s?

[MudRunnerTD]

Was anyone else getting hung up on the middle ground?

[BigRAWesty]

I think so. A lot of gouges threw the middles before I hit them. There were also lots of standard cars, but even more running 33's threw to 37's..
But the bloke running 37's just idled threw..


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[MudRunnerTD]

But the bloke running 37's just idled threw..


That's because it would have been no more than a Commuter track for a bloke on 37s if you could drive it on 31s!! No disrespect intended ;)

[threedogs]

Ron Moon did an article years ago on this matter as the guys with the 35s and 37s were cutting up tracks real bad. Joe Blow with his daily driver running 31s had no chance of getting through. As stated most Patrols will run a 33 and combined with a 2" lift would see you go most places un aided.

[nissannewby]

The diff size, tyre pressure and the fact his rear was locked all the time would have been his advantage. As good as the patrol lsd is its still not locked and in high power low torque situations like mud the lsd wont work as well as a lokka. With any setup and some smart thinking there is no reason why a car could go some of the places that another does with 37's ( note I said some places not all) dont worry about it to much mate its the same as anything else there will be places he will do better then others you will do better. Its all apart of 4wding :)

[BigRAWesty]

By no means am I jealous of his 37's.. I like my 12.5L per 100 quite nicely.. Lol

But if tyre pressures do play that big of a part I'll deffently show more respect to lower pressures threw more terrain, not just sand.


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[MudRunnerTD]

http://arbusa.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/table.png

Have a read of this very good artical prepared by ARB Blog

the-lowdown-off-road-tire-pressures/ (http://arbusa.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/the-lowdown-off-road-tire-pressures/)

[taslucas]

As has been said a lot already (and i reckon you get the idea) tyre pressure has a lot to do with it. But having said that, i never change my pressure unless really bogged:). Youll find that the more experience you have at driving any particular surface, the better youll get at it. Its also been said above to check your driving line. Even though you think its just one set of ruts, theres still plenty you can do with the steering wheel to help your trol through. You gotta know when to try bite the side of a rut, when to give it a little left/right action, when to ease off the throttle, when to hold it flat. Keep driving and youll just get better:)
Definately try to budget for some 33's and a 2" lift. Youll get nearly anywhere with that. Even if you kept your 31's for daily driving.

[threedogs]

X 2 With Taslucas, could always keep the 31s for touring and daily duties and have a dedicated set of 33"s or 285s muddies on steel rims for playtime.
I run 2 sets and must admit its a bit of a pain in the butt changing them at home all the time. looking at just running some Mickey
Thompson 4 rib in a 305 x 16 soon. My MTZs haven't lasted all that long maybe 50k total before I change them, but I like my Cooper ATRs for HWY
and daily duties, decisions, decisions

[Bubba]

Thanks BigGQwesty for starting this thread. as a novice 4x4er I have learnt heaps from the read

[threedogs]

Bubba, join a 4x4 club in your area, it'll do a number of things, first is finding some great friends to 4x4 with
most have a driver awareness course to learn safe offroad driving and recoveries, and it may rid you of any
bad habits you may have. it did with me. No one can just jump in a 4x4 and know everything, no one.{Though some claim too]
you can drive up the same hill 16-18 times in one year and each time will produce different challenges.
Anything you learn is then passed on, Its all about safety, going easy on the tracks and making it home

[tecdiverdude]

your diff centre is a bigger diameter than his, so with 31s it will be a little lower.
I also think the Patrol has a significantly wider track than the Prada, that will make a big difference.
I never venture off road with more than 20lbs in my tread - except high speed gravel.

also, as they said, pick the right track...