Engine convertion?? 4.2td or ls1

[Alitis007]

Hi all, just wanting to know what YOU would choose. I just bought a gu ti with a shitfull 4.5 in it my original plan was to find a cheep diesel troll n put the 4.2 in it but this came up so i snatched it up but i've got a gen 3 laying around collecting dust and im not sure which way to go. From what i have found both convertions will cost me bout the same and after watcher some youtube videos the gen looks like fun but i already have a toy and has made me unsure how practicle it would be over the 4.2. Any input would be great and much appreciated cheers.

[97_gq_lwb]

I would go 4.2 diesel turbo because i like playing in the muddy water holes and reliability.

[threedogs]

I'd go the LS1, you'll end up with an awesome truck, not too bad on fuel, better than the 4.5.
Looks great in the engine bay' plus all the power you'll ever need.
Tow anything, need I go on, horses for courses

[Alitis007]

I would go 4.2 diesel turbo because i like playing in the muddy water holes and reliability.

I like the sound of that haha

[nissannewby]

4.2 will happily tow anything. I think resale value is prob the biggest thing here. Although the conversions are about the same costwise if you ever sell the vehicle you will make this up with a 4.2 in it. Also a 4.2 will do 500,000km with less issues than a LS1

[threedogs]

Whats the price of an emissions compliant 4.2 diesel to suit your model Ti . I understand not just any 4.2 will be suitable

[Alitis007]

I'd go the LS1, you'll end up with an awesome truck, not too bad on fuel, better than the 4.5.
Looks great in the engine bay' plus all the power you'll ever need.
Tow anything, need I go on, horses for courses

Well on my mrs gen powered wh stato which i've mildly worked we took it up to eden nsw from melbourne last chrissy break and it only cost me bout $40 in juice (each way) n could overtake 3 /4 cars at a time no dramas and that stands at about 1800kgs were my ti i bought in qld on sat cost me $600 in fuel to drive back to melb and was bearly was able to overtake a road train doing 100km and it weighs 2000kgs!!! economy would be close i rekon

[Alitis007]

Whats the price of an emissions compliant 4.2 diesel to suit your model Ti . I understand not just any 4.2 will be suitable

To make it go in without a engineers id need to find a trol at the autions either ute or wagon 98 - 01 model and if i remember right its somewere between 4-6 g's

[Alitis007]

4.2 will happily tow anything. I think resale value is prob the biggest thing here. Although the conversions are about the same costwise if you ever sell the vehicle you will make this up with a 4.2 in it. Also a 4.2 will do 500,000km with less issues than a LS1
Resell value wouldnt b an issue either coz how many 2000 model ti's do u see for sale with a ls1 or diesel in them?? All ive seen are ST's and DX's with 5.7's in them or kitted out for bush no modified TI's at all

[threedogs]

Big decision ,you have motor there already or spend $5-6 on a 4.2. suppose it boils down to what you're going to use 4by for and how long you want to keep it. Dual cab Ti would look good?

[Alitis007]

Big decision ,you have motor there already or spend $5-6 on a 4.2. suppose it boils down to what you're going to use 4by for and how long you want to keep it. Dual cab Ti would look good?

Hahaha "duel cab ti" it would look the part hey toorack tracktor by day n mud pig by night/weekend lol but seriousely its my daily driver and i'll be using it for when i go fishing off the surf and towing a 16ft fibre glass boat mainly in snapper season.

[nissannewby]

I thought the GU wagons weighed close to 3 tonne? I know my GQ coil cab ute weighs about 2T so surely a GU wagon is a fair bit fatter than that.

[Alitis007]

I thought the GU wagons weighed close to 3 tonne? I know my GQ coil cab ute weighs about 2T so surely a GU wagon is a fair bit fatter than that.

Acording to carsales which im guesing uses redbook its kerb weight is 2270kg tare mass 2175kg it doesnt feel that heavy if i really wring its neck i can trow it around n it handles better then my old vl bomodoor haha but your coil cab kerb weight 1800kg n a wh stato 1735kg

[Silver]

if there are any trips on the hori2on with a big load and a long long way between fuel stops, then I would go for the diesel.

If not, then I lurve that V8 note and power.

[Alitis007]

if there are any trips on the hori2on with a big load and a long long way between fuel stops, then I would go for the diesel.

If not, then I lurve that V8 note and power.
Thats a good point and i don't see my self carting a van around and unless i win tattslotto can't see myself getting a bigger boat (but i wouldn't mind an Eden craft 565r) and the burble from the 8 would be music to my ears on a nice long drive ot to mention pulling up at the lights next to a ss and watching their expression as they try to pull away but can't seem to gt rid of a pair of noisy muddys next to their window haha

[Alitis007]

It would be good to talk to someone whos had both and get their opinion.

[97_gq_lwb]

If you time it right the chev will throw a rod through their window.

[Alitis007]

If you time it right the chev will throw a rod through their window.

Hahaha fantastic something to look
Forward to if i go tht way

[Silver]

When I wrote long trips I kinda had in mind desert trips etc where it is a long way between drinks and the engine is working hard and drinking hard :-)

[Alitis007]

When I wrote long trips I kinda had in mind desert trips etc where it is a long way between drinks and the engine is working hard and drinking hard :-)

I know i was in my happy place havn a day dream trying to forget about the cold while i do a water pump on a audi haha .. But yeh i should have said that i do more coastal driving and got this 4b to get to those fishing spots that you can't get to with a car and towing the boat on the weekends

[threedogs]

Turning me towards the diesel now, but still think the dual cab cut would look like a perfect hunting/fishing setup. still have all the Ti style inside. plod along at 100k all day every day in the diesel

[HippoNZ]

I've just recently crossed this bridge also mate, LS1 or slap a good tubro on the current TD42. I went the turbo option for reliability, distance and it will suite my purpose as I want to keep the shorty for club trips and my tow wagon for when I build my comp truck. I personally don't see the point for an LS1 unless you really need that instant power and higher rev range. But boy would it sound nice and go well! haha
In saying that though you can still get a truck load of power from a TD42 under the right setup.

Goodluck!

[nissannewby]

Im not sure how it works in Melbourne but your rego and insurance is generally higher with a V8

[threedogs]

Didn't change its high enough as it is now nearly $700 a year, cruel hey

[nissannewby]

Thats cheap mate its about 850 a year for a 6 and pushing nearly 1200 a year for an 8 up here in QLD

[Alitis007]

As it stands Hipponz first i need to figure out what im gona put in my Ti coz atm this overgrown paper weight tb45 is killing me in fuel i get better economy in my bridgeported rx7!! And as far as rego the reg part of it only bout $300 $400 of it goes to the TAC i dont think it will change much but the problem will be with insurance with having a holden motor in a nissan, but what every 1 is saying 5.7 for noise 4.2 for practicality but im still not sure which way to go are there any users on here that have put a gen in ther GU???

[97_gq_lwb]

Have you considered a turbo on the 4.5 or a custom tune to improve fuel economy i have seen chiptorque do a module.
http://www.chiptorque.com.au/patrol45l.html

[Alitis007]

Not really i've had petrol turbos all my life and beeing a mechanic i know what needs to be done to make it work but i put it down to those two options after talking to my engine reconditioner who put me on to this forum and told me to ask what you guys n girls have done for the pro's and con's and his own words he told me if u spend some money on a 4.2 diesel you will have a motor for life!! But with my own experience the gen3 is a fairly strong motor apart from the early one that had ring issues and the common oil leaks they have thy can put out 400rwkw with a twin turbo setup, fuel system and exhaust on standard internals and plus i want to be able to go to a spare parts shop and ask for a part off the shelf if i ever need to fix something while i was away in the worst scenario.

[97_gq_lwb]

Yeah not a fan of gm it wasn't just the early engines with piston slap and ring issues vx and vy had problems as well even the 6 litres have been known to self destruct under 50 thousand k's they are a mexican lucky dip lol .
Their is a thread on here by bigrig about a turbo 4.2 petrol efi turbo upgrade that performs well i can't imagine the 4.5 needing any internal mods for a low boost turbo setup.
Amazing what a hair dryer can do.

Their is a late td42 turbo engine package on ebay atm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-Patrol-Turbo-Diesel-TD42T-Complete-Engine-RARE-/300759285002?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4606a67d0a

[Alitis007]

Thanks for the link i'll keep my eye on it but a long motor it self wont help me coz i'll still need fuel tanks fuel lines and all the running gear plus the brackets for the engine mounts that why i said early i would need to find a donor car at the auctions. But the motor i have was in a car i owned and was writen off by a muppet rear ending it while it was stationary so i know this motor and auto they made 224rwkw with full exhaust and cold air intake. But off the subject i would really like to give it to this peanut that drives a imported ford exploder v8 that keeps cutting me off in the mornings on the way to work!! The gen would make that childs play but the td42t could push him into next week haha ahh decisions decisions lol

[threedogs]

is there another diesel motor that tickles your fancy, duramax for example. Thinking if you're going to change motors
might as well do something a bit different to everyone else.

[nissannewby]

Why not a TB48 :D

[Alitis007]

The simple fact was that for the diesel convertion i would buy a complete wreck from the auctions for everything i would need to use otherwise to buy all the pieces would cost an arm and a leg and the tb48 would leave me in the same boat wont it??

[taslucas]

Maybe have a look into cleaning up the TB45 and strapping a turbo in it ? The bottom end is strong as, the top end parts are off the shelf replaceable, theres no need to change fuel lines/tank/accessories/bolt ons. No need for a donor vehicle. I reckon big power would be achievable (maybe look at those crazy guys in the middle east!?)
These are all just guesses as I have no experience at all with any of those engines. :-)

Tap, crackle, pop

[Alitis007]

I'll do some poking around and see what i can find out i might be asking for too much but atm i'm getting 6km/liter on the hwy i don't want to know what it does in town and i've seen guys with td42t say they get up to 12km/l and my mrs wh stato gets between 8 to 12 km/l if i can get those sort of figures i would b rapped.

[chevracer383]

I've been considering similar options for my GU for down the track a bit. LS1 or LS3 or maybe even 6.5 duramax. Im doing a turbo LS1 conversion on my other car at the moment. They are a good option in my opinion because parts are reasonably cheap and readily available and an exhaust system and a good tune with something like EFI Live and you will have good power with some economy too.

[Alitis007]

Well i've been look at things here n there and its looking like i will head down that track with the gen 3 one of the other guys told me about turboing the tb45 but 1 of the kits i found was worth bound $6500 a convertion kit will cost me less. For now i'll keep looking to see what i can find.

[tricksgonefishing]

Ive had a TD42 and still got a TD42 with after market turbo and Ive never got close to 12km/L. On the Hwy @110km/h im happy with 7-8km/L.
Ive just bought a 1998 GU TI duel fuel and have only done about 1000ks in it befor I had to go back to work and on gas with mixed driving it got 4km/L and I was happy until you told me people can get 12km/L in a Patrol. What speed do they travel at, 40?

[happygu]

Ive had a TD42 and still got a TD42 with after market turbo and Ive never got close to 12km/L. On the Hwy @110km/h im happy with 7-8km/L.
Ive just bought a 1998 GU TI duel fuel and have only done about 1000ks in it befor I had to go back to work and on gas with mixed driving it got 4km/L and I was happy until you told me people can get 12km/L in a Patrol. What speed do they travel at, 40?

Tricks is on the money - don't let anyone tell you they get 12km/L - that's 8.3 Litres per Hundred.........well under the official figures, and most people complain that they can't even get close to the figure on the windscreen.....

[Alitis007]

Well Tricks & Happygtu since i wrote this post my ti has improved in economy its streight petrol and i drive 120km every day in traffic usually for 90km of that trip. When i got it i was getting 4km/l on the hwy when i was driving down from qld, so while i'm saving up to do the convertion i thought i should have a play with the motor to see what i can do with it ( i'm a machanic mind you) so i reset the tps to how i want the auto to shift then adjusted the idle to suit and reset the timing to take into consideration the age of the car, km's its done And stretch of the timing chain. I now have double the power i had before and from 4km/l hwy only i got 6km/l on my daily route and last weekend i towed a 16ft glass boat wich weighs roughly 1ton with trailer and my economy has stayed at 6 now this tank full i think its improved a bit more after driving with the load on it, so at the next fill i will do my calcs again and post it up so you guys can see.

[Alitis007]

Oh snd btw i haven't gone on a long trip on the freeway yet so i cant tell wat it does on the hwy.

[tricksgonefishing]

Well Tricks & Happygtu since i wrote this post my ti has improved in economy its streight petrol and i drive 120km every day in traffic usually for 90km of that trip. When i got it i was getting 4km/l on the hwy when i was driving down from qld, so while i'm saving up to do the convertion i thought i should have a play with the motor to see what i can do with it ( i'm a machanic mind you) so i reset the tps to how i want the auto to shift then adjusted the idle to suit and reset the timing to take into consideration the age of the car, km's its done And stretch of the timing chain. I now have double the power i had before and from 4km/l hwy only i got 6km/l on my daily route and last weekend i towed a 16ft glass boat wich weighs roughly 1ton with trailer and my economy has stayed at 6 now this tank full i think its improved a bit more after driving with the load on it, so at the next fill i will do my calcs again and post it up so you guys can see.

The TPS and timing sound like something I need to do. So far all I have managed to do is drive the TI home but since then Ive been trawling ebay and picking up bits for it to put on when I get home from work. Can you please explain the TPS adustment as I think this would change more than just the gearbox shiftpoints and with the timing are you talking about resetting the cam timing with a degree wheel or just retarding the ignition to allow for the slightly retarded cam(due to chain stetch)? I was planning on changing all the fluids,plugs,cleaning MAF sensor,putting a uni filter on it,adding extractors,Nomad valve body,converter lock switch and bigger trans cooler because I intend to tow a boat with it aswell.

[threedogs]

Check the archives via the search engine. There are two threads one where you put a resistor on a loom connection that changes the way the auto shifts.
the second is a thread from Chaz [Guru] about a loom you make to lock the convertor. Both make interesting reading, I hope to do the lock up loom soon.

[Anaurath]

Well, this is just an opinion... since TB45 seems to be a reliable engine, why not to put a Turbo on it??
I've been gathering info about several possibilities and I think that finally I decided to go for this one soon:

http://www.axtturbo.com.au/tb45_45l_efi_engine.html

Even you can install it in several stages, which is also good for the pocket... (Furthermore is far cheaper than a LS1 or LS3 conversion, and probably a more reliable solution...)

Regards

[threedogs]

Pretty sure Simon from 4WD TV has put a turbo on his petrol patrol, it flys, I mean really flys
Drop him an email simon@4wdtv.com.au

[Alitis007]

The TPS and timing sound like something I need to do. So far all I have managed to do is drive the TI home but since then Ive been trawling ebay and picking up bits for it to put on when I get home from work. Can you please explain the TPS adustment as I think this would change more than just the gearbox shiftpoints and with the timing are you talking about resetting the cam timing with a degree wheel or just retarding the ignition to allow for the slightly retarded cam(due to chain stetch)? I was planning on changing all the fluids,plugs,cleaning MAF sensor,putting a uni filter on it,adding extractors,Nomad valve body,converter lock switch and bigger trans cooler because I intend to tow a boat with it aswell.
When your ready let me know i can walk you thru it its not hard at all! The timing i advanced it slightly from the dizzy, and i will also be upgrading my trans cooler bub i'll be disconnecting the radiator completely and keep the original and add a second cooler to it. IMO dont think you will need to lock the converter it works well the way i set it up but thats suiting my driving style. Turbo nah had plenty of cars with them if anything i would opt for a supercharger gives u down low respons were you want it unlike the turbo laging till it spools up, i'm gona stick with the gen, worst case if i'm not happy i'll probably sell the bits and try somthing else. Oh and BTW i'm up to 685.4km and just used my main tank so i'll fill up tonight after work and work and do the sums. Just a quick question i'm using 98ron PULP what fuel are you guys using???

[Anaurath]

I'm using standard 91º... 8.5:1 in my TB45, so is enough for the low compression ratio. Sometimes some fuel additive to clean injectors and that's all (Hanged up with Liqui-Moli, but Nulon is also a nice product and Tru Blu).

[Alitis007]

Well my fuel consumption this tank was 6.8km/L pretty happy with that!! ANAURATH how much was that turbo kit? I found a complete kit http://www.tuffcarparts.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=56_155&product_id=456 and they were asking $6,490 thats how much a convetion kit with engineers cert will cost me mayb a bit less if i use the nissan auto.

[Anaurath]

Hi Altis007,

well, the AXT is a little bit expenisve, but after looking at kit you are showing I think is a little bit more complete. In addition can be installed by stages, find below the quotation I received:

Stage 1 is our Turbo Hardware Only Kit, which includes the turbo, manifold, basic ducting, turbine outlet and oil and coolant lines.
This part kit, uses a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to allow for tuning. You can expect approx. 30% more torque and power over standard, running 3-4PSI boost pressure on 98 octane fuel with this system. It is priced at $3500.

The next recommended upgrade is our AXT ECU upgrade, which replaces the factory ECU , allowing direct fuel and ignition control. Additionally, this unit allows the MAF sensor to be removed, eliminating the risk of a faulty sensor causing engine tuning issues. This kit is priced at $2800 and will allow tuning to higher boost pressures or use of 95 octane fuel.

The next recommended step is the fitment of the AXT Liquid/Air Intercooler, which will allow significant increases in torque and power, by allowing much higher boost pressures to be utilised.
This system is priced at $2500.

With the above 3 kits and a free-flowing exhaust system ( 2.5" Mandrel = $950 or 3" Mandrel = $1250 ) will allow gains in excess of 60% more torque and power over standard.


Well my fuel consumption this tank was 6.8km/L pretty happy with that!! ANAURATH how much was that turbo kit? I found a complete kit http://www.tuffcarparts.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=56_155&product_id=456 and they were asking $6,490 thats how much a convetion kit with engineers cert will cost me mayb a bit less if i use the nissan auto.

[Alitis007]

Anaurath, your looking at $10k roughly and what about fuel consumption?? I already have the gen3 i think i can get away with $5,000 - $6,000 with a cert so it will comply with epa and i know i will be getting 7 - 8km/L around town and 11km/L on the freeway so IMO that will work better for me. Does the AXT kit come with a compliance certificate??

[Anaurath]

Altis007, if you already have the engine, there is nothing else to say. In my opinion you are going to have a lot of fun!!! In my opinion you are probably right in few of your comments. However from my point:

1.- Buy a Gen3 or Gen4 new or nearly new is probably around 10$.
2.- Fit it is a really nice engineering project, so if you are not able to do it by yourself (That's my case for sure), you are going to pay an amount (10K$ more???).
3.- Probably you will have to deal with a lot of things coming from a vehicle that has not been designed to house an engine like that (probably is going to be the same if you fit a Turbo, but I still consider this mod, far simple that to swap the engine).
4.- That's my particular opinion and probably can be rebated, but I think that all this American engines are all muscle, but maybe not are the best example of reliability, especially if you compare them with Japanese or German engines.
5.- It is not rare to find Landcruiser and Patrols over 400.000 K still running ¿Could we say the same about American engines?
6.- Just for the above reason I think that to fit a Turbo in an Engine not overloaded (like TB45) could be a nice solution. In addition the process of fitting is for sure far easier, and in this particular case I feel that I can do it by myself (without wanting to seem arrogant)... at least the mechanical part, obviously later I will have to visit a Dyno to adjust things.

About the fuel consumption... I already accepted that this car is going to be a recreational car, so I don't care about consumption... my daily car is Micra (4.5l each 100km).

Anyway, even all said above WHAT AN AMAZING THING YOU ARE DOING!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Please upload some photos as soon as you advance with the project, I'm sure I will drool when I see them!!!

Hope to see it also out there!!!

Regards



Anaurath, your looking at $10k roughly and what about fuel consumption?? I already have the gen3 i think i can get away with $5,000 - $6,000 with a cert so it will comply with epa and i know i will be getting 7 - 8km/L around town and 11km/L on the freeway so IMO that will work better for me. Does the AXT kit come with a compliance certificate??

[Alitis007]

Well thats fair enough good luck with your build aswell!! You made some very valid points there and there a few other options if your just building a toy. This is my daily driver but if it wasnt i would throw in a rb26dett or hybrid rb28det (rb30det block rb26dett head) a mild build can produce 1000hp. And i will be doing all the work my self the hardest thing will be cuting out the old engine mount brackets and welding in the new ones the rest is easy bolt off bolt on marks 4wd adaptors gear and fab up and exhaust... Easy haha

[Anaurath]

And do not forget the loom and all electrical connections... that I suppose is not going to be an easy deal...

Do not forget to put some photos when finished!!


Well thats fair enough good luck with your build aswell!! You made some very valid points there and there a few other options if your just building a toy. This is my daily driver but if it wasnt i would throw in a rb26dett or hybrid rb28det (rb30det block rb26dett head) a mild build can produce 1000hp. And i will be doing all the work my self the hardest thing will be cuting out the old engine mount brackets and welding in the new ones the rest is easy bolt off bolt on marks 4wd adaptors gear and fab up and exhaust... Easy haha

[Alitis007]

Gen3 plug and play looms are available, for anything else there are plenty of aftermarket ones and arnt that expensive and are fairly streight forward to install.