Rear bar alternative

[Shonky]

Hey guys,

Theo (my patrol), had a crack in the right hand barn door due to the weight of the spare tyre. I've got a mate to weld it up for me but it's only a temporary fix. I've been looking at getting a rear bar for it to handle the weight but every one I see will cost anywhere from $1800 to $2500!

Honestly, I'd rather spend that sort of coin on some lockers or a new lift kit.

My question, is there an alternative to this sort of issue apart from putting the tyre in the back or on the roof rack?

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated... Cheers guys

Shonky

[Bigrig]

I have a mount and strap down for the tyre in the back mate - the roof is far too great a haul to be putting a 25kg tyre up and down onto.

If your nifty with the welder, you could have a lash at making a rear bar with a tyre holder but that's not for the feint hearted.

Anyone got any other ideas?

[threedogs]

Hi I've made a bracket that bolts to where the rear seats used to go in cargo area, so my spare is internal.It's upright behind the right rear passenger seat, which is removed to house the Engel. replaced the wheel on door with a faux wheel just to hold recovery gear. Check back I'll put some pics on here

[threedogs]

There was a mob out Benalla way called Karry2 or Karrie something that did single rear swingaway wheel carriers leaving stock bumbers in place.
Looked good and very affordable, think his name was Micheal?

[Shonky]

That's a pretty good idea Threedogs, unfortunately Theo is also my daily driver and I have a 8 month old daughter and our pram is HUGE which makes life a bit harder for me... I was hoping for an outside mod more than anything

[Shonky]

Ok so I had a bit of a brainstorm. I have been wanting to put side rails on Theo for a while now, but I knew I wanted to build it myself instead of buying them. What I'd like to do is have it turned into a bumper car of sorts, rails going around the perimeter. I've already got a TJM bullbar and rock sliders so my idea is to make the front side rails and a set of back ones connecting to the towbar. From there, I'll make some piping that will wrap around the back lights and on the left door have a swinging Jerry can holder which can be removable so their not on there all the time and on the other side another swinging brace for the spare wheel.

My crude drawings give you a general idea on what I'm taking about. The blue is the railing and the red is the swinging braces and holder.

I'll be making some more official and accurate drawing later on once I get some more opinions and do some research on what material I'll need for the job.

Any insights on this project would be greatly appreciated as well as suggestions to improve on my plans.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa232/shonkyberg/Shonky%204x4/e6a3f602.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa232/shonkyberg/Shonky%204x4/4c51c942.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa232/shonkyberg/Shonky%204x4/2fdb440a.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa232/shonkyberg/Shonky%204x4/e6f4cbc0.jpg

[gu4500]

Hmm?

I run a 35" Simex on steel rim, on a spacer on my back door.... and its a 98.... bought it at 76K ish with the factory steel wheels and 265's. Straight away in 2001 changed to 285's on GU steelies.... and fitted a spacer.

Then bought the 35's a couple of years later..... now has 160K on it.... no cracks. And they are a 50kg rim and tyre setup.....

[Shonky]

The R/H barn door had a sizable crack on the left side of the window support. The vehicle used to be an ex mining truck so it's seen plenty of knocks, resulting in the crack. Like I said before, I've had a mate weld it up but it's only a matter of time before it'll crack again so I either buy a new door or create something different that fits all my needs into one package.

[Clunk]

All that extra steel work will add a fair bit of weight to the trol........ if your mate is handy with the old welding, you should ask him if would be able to knock up a new rear bar with swing arm

[Shonky]

I've already tried commissioning him but he doesnt have the time to go through and make one for me. For what I had planned originally for Theo, the extra bar work is minimal in comparison to the weight of a rear bar. I was getting side rails and I wanted a rear bar to begin with but the price is just not that appealing to me.

[Clunk]

Im no expert but I think you would need some pretty substantial tubing to cope with the weight of the wheel and swing arm........ and as always, happy to be corrected

[Woof]

I have got my spare 35" on my roof rack, getting it down will be easy but getting the bugger up there was a pain..

[my third 256]

could use the winch to get it up on top
a telescopic arm that is hinged

[threedogs]

Don't over complicate your design, remember the K.I.S.S. principle. As you may end up making more work than is needed

[Shonky]

Ok so I'm pretty keen on this idea I've had for the rear bar alternative. There's a lot of editing in regards to designs so since the first rough one but it's still essentially the same. Any suggestions or things to look out for when designing and building it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again guys, you've been a big help so far!

[taslucas]

Looking at your sketches, i think one thing that might give you trouble is leaving the bar and hinges far enough away so that the big barn door will be able to open. I agree with above posts, i reckon there will be alot of weight on the corner. Mayeb adding a bar under the brake light might help
Look forward to seeing it though. I like the idea of protecting the rear wheel arches.

[matthewperk]

With all that extra railing there would be a heap of weight. I'm surprised no-one has designed a tyre carrier that is mounted on the tow bar, sorta like a bike rack, but with mounts for tyres instead. And to be able to open the doors with it mounted you just fold it down on a hinge so it goes flat from the original 90 degrees. Only downer is pulling more weight further behind the rear axel.

[Silver]

tyres are different diametres, if only because they wear.

It seems to me that the mechanism would work less hard if the design incorporated a support under the tyre and down to the chassis to take the load, except when the door is actually open - at which time the vehicle is usually :-) stationary.

The next brain explosion that occurs to me, is to build a frame that goes inside the door, that transmits the loads down to the door catch etc?

[Shonky]

Hmm could a counter weight on the other side help the balance issue? Also to help with the amount of weight in the back being introduced, a set of airbags on either sides might help?

[Silver]

hmmm :-)

[Shonky]

So not a good idea?

[Silver]

I think anything that adds weight has to be carefully considered. Weight that serves no other purpose but to counterbalance a working part of the load, sounds like something best avoided, to me.

Weight costs fuel, tyres, general wear and tear and if there is enough of it, it breaks things.

I don't know enough to say whether fitting a set of airbags to the rear coils, and then pumping one up harder than the other would adversely affect handling.

On a related point, I didn't think of it at the time, but I think all of the commercial swing away spare wheel carriers support the swinging end of the frame when in the closed position. Yet they still have big stub axles and wheel bearings for the carrier to sit on/swing on, so they must be expected to work pretty hard? Put another way, the ones I have seen have axles and bearings big enough to carry 1/4 of a loaded car, and all they are doing is carrying a wheel and tyre and a few metres of pipe?

Shonky, I'll duck out of this conversation now, and leave it for someone with more knowledge and experience.

[Shonky]

You've given me a lot to think about silver. This idea I have with the tube bar work was inspired by a hilux surf I saw at work last week. It had a somewhat similar setup but I think I'll have to have a good inspection on it to see if it will serve the purpose I need it to do.

I know that commercial rear bars are very heavy, and I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the tube bar setup I'm talking about would be of similar weight if not lighter.

Like I said, I think I may have to talk to a welder/fabricator who has worked on projects like this on a daily basis to give me some more advice on the subject. Thank you very much for your help so far.

[Silver]

Hi Shonky,

thanks for your kind words.

Maybe you'll nut out some kind of internal reinforcing for the door that picks up the hinge bolts and the bottom catch, or something, that is easy to fit, and you'll be able to retire on the proceeds :-)

[Lieney]

Buy another rear door. If gu4500 runs big rubber a 33 should be no problem in your case.
A new door is no where near as fun as putting money into something you can see, but will be effective in carrying your rubber. OR
Save up for a rear bar, and buy a good one.
I want one for my troll, twin jerry one side, tyre the other but as you say, they are a little pricey.

I have also been told that not all cheaper options will last, compared to expensive ones. I suppose it depends on how bad you thrash it.

[Shonky]

I did think about the new door. That'll most likely happen later on and your right about getting a more expensive bar. I've heard plenty of horror stories about people buying cheaper bars and getting nothing but rattles and having them not support any weight or knocks from 4wding. The more I think about my bar work idea, the more I keep poking holes in it that can't be changed or fixed. I think it's high time I just save up, face the facts that these bars cost a small fortune and get myself one.