How's this for customer service?

[Dingo55]

Was looking for an intercooler upgrade & asked a 4WD parts supplier this question:

Dear ******,
Hi, will this intercooler fit my 2006 GU 4.2TDi, it's an ST-L? Also, what brand is the intercooler, or the manufacturer please? Thank you.

and here's the answer I got:

Yes it will fit, as it is the same intercooler used on all the 4.2TDi across that era. We do not provide parts information, specifications or other details on our kits. Everyone wants to know what we are doing so they can copy the best kits available. Not suggesting this is your intention, but we have a strict rule of no product part information disclosure. Cheers. Chris

- ******

See pic of the intercooler I was asking about that they were advertising for $1145. Did a bit more research & found it's an ASE product which you can get direct from ASE for $950 including post.

But what kind of answer is 'everyone wants to know what we are doing so they can copy the best kits available'? Would have preferred an honest answer like 'it's an ASE kit that we on-sell with a $200 mark-up'.

my reply:

Dear ******,
Chris,What a disappointing & misleading reply. Why couldn't you simply say that it's an ASE intercooler that you on-sell with a mark up? Who do you think you are kidding with a reply like 'Everyone wants to know what we are doing so they can copy the best kits available'? Well you lost my desire to purchase anything from ******.


and the response was:

Thank you. I won't miss your attitude or your business. You assume far too much, and expect far too much. Where we source a range of parts from for our kits is our business. You assume our kits are all ASE. You are just upset I wont tell you everything we do so you can go down the road and try elsewhere. I'm not stupid mate. There are 100 customers to the odd one like you who actually appreciate what we do. I'll look after them thank you. Your are now blocked anyway.- ******


my reply:

Dear ******,Thanks for your very unsurprising reply. The only thing I assumed was you'd be honest, fair and provide good customer assistance.


and the response was:

Are you going to continue with messages about how I can run my business better to suit you, or are you ready to move on. You got your initial answer, it will fit. What you don't like is that I'm not going to tell you how to circumvent me because I know that's what you want to do. I can't be more honest than that, but it obviously stings when the truth of your reasons for enquiring hits home, and exposes your intentions as dishonest. Now lets move on, I have work to do with out offering life lessons to delinquents.- ******

my reply:

Dear ******,Your last response is very revealing but I consider it to be illogical, inaccurate, convoluted, offensive, and verging on being defamatory and slanderous. I will phone ****** tomorrow to speak with the owner. In the mean time, I have copied all of our correspondence for my solicitor to reveiw.

and the response was:

[B]Ha, you make me laugh. It sounds like you've been busy reading a Thesaurus, hence the delay in response, and the solicitor bit is even funnier. I'm not sure what you've been smoking buddy, but you should give it a rest. It's already depleted your IQ level below that of a common ****roach. Do you seriously think a silly Solicitor comment chucked in amongst your dribble is going to phase me one little bit. Move along mate and find someone else to talk to. But thanks for the humor in the meantime. And by the way, I am the owner you tool, so you get to speak with me tomorrow. I look forward to hearing from you just for the laugh.- ******

[NissanGQ4.2]

Hi mate,

Sorry to hear of your bad experience with the company that you have been dealing with, but I have removed said company name. Unfortunately Andy ( AB ) has had previous experiences of companies threatening legal action if there company name isn't removed from post that show there poor customer service skills.

As much I would love 2 name and shame these companies, We as a forum can't risk / afford threats of legal action.

Anyone that is interested in the said company PM Dingo55


Cheers

Todd

[nissannewby]

Thats odd as you have only asked for a brand or manufacturer then he goes and raves on about parts identificaton etc. Alls he really had to say was that is an ASE unit or tell you its one of theirs. I would possibly get on to ASE in regard to someone taking owner ship of their product etc.

[Dingo55]

Todd, no probs with the site's editing rules. Don't usually air dirty washing but in this case I wanted to share so anyone in the market for an i/c could see there are other options & to also show others what they might encounter with that trader.

cheers,

[NissanGQ4.2]

Todd, no probs with the site's editing rules. Don't usually air dirty washing but in this case I wanted to share so anyone in the market of an i/c could see there are other options & to also show others what they might encounter with that trader.

cheers,

Mate I would love 2 see a name and shame thread, but unfortunately the forum has been down this path before with a company threatening legal action for shaming them in a post if their name is not removed.

Cheers

Todd

[macca]

Thats odd as you have only asked for a brand or manufacturer then he goes and raves on about parts identificaton etc. Alls he really had to say was that is an ASE unit or tell you its one of theirs. I would possibly get on to ASE in regard to someone taking owner ship of their product etc.

This is very odd,

He only had to say...

That they use a well known branded intercooler with other components to make it fit, plus give awsome service such as delivery, technical support, instructions as to installation and product back up.

He could have easily talked himself "up" and you might have been happy to pay a little extra to install a mod on your 4B that fits and performs perfectly.

Instead he fed you a load of rubbish and hasn't liked it when you called him on it.

Dealing on the net is hard to "read" a customer, but, no matter how the person approaches a seller a response like this is plain foolish.

If we can compliment a business here we should be able to flame them without the administrators being caught up in any legal crap.

(Everyone wants to know what we are doing so they can copy the best kits available.)
ASE might not be happy that he is implying their product is his.

Thanks Dingo for your post. This is one way that these companies will lift their game.

Macca

Had a look at the web site the components supplied look the same, ASE probably dont have a trade price for resellers or he has put a mark up on that does not look good when comparing sites.

[Bigrig]

Todd, no probs with the site's editing rules. Don't usually air dirty washing but in this case I wanted to share so anyone in the market of an i/c could see there are other options & to also show others what they might encounter with that trader.

cheers,

I'm with you and Todd mate - as individuals we can pass on names between ourselves, but once in writing prior to any actual conviction as it were of an action, that business has the right under libel legislation (defamation through written words, pictures, etc) to take action to protect the interests of their business - this is law, and as such, enforced by the forum (I.e. it is not a forum rule, simply the forum being responsible in ensuring compliance to legislated acts and mitigating risk of it and/or any of it's members being sued - quite rightfully sued it should be noted).

Me?? Personally I love the fact that people can communicate with a wider audience these days on the internet and point out those less scrupulous businesses out there - firstly, it would see a rapid decline in rogues ripping people off, and secondly, it would see those good operators get the business they quite rightly should. But alas, we live in a ridiculously litigious world where maggots can exploit the system to protect their shonky ethics and practices - not what the law was meant for, but I bet there's more rogues using the system for protection than there is good people/businesses that it was meant to protect ...

Ahhh ... that's my Saturday Two Cents ... lmao

[Winnie]

I would definitely get onto ASE mate.
And I recommend people who are in the market for an IC to PM Dingo as to which company this is.

Tappa tappa

[Bigrig]

I'm with you and Todd mate - as individuals we can pass on names between ourselves, but once in writing prior to any actual conviction as it were of an action, that business has the right under libel legislation (defamation through written words, pictures, etc) to take action to protect the interests of their business - this is law, and as such, enforced by the forum (I.e. it is not a forum rule, simply the forum being responsible in ensuring compliance to legislated acts and mitigating risk of it and/or any of it's members being sued - quite rightfully sued it should be noted).

Me?? Personally I love the fact that people can communicate with a wider audience these days on the internet and point out those less scrupulous businesses out there - firstly, it would see a rapid decline in rogues ripping people off, and secondly, it would see those good operators get the business they quite rightly should. But alas, we live in a ridiculously litigious world where maggots can exploit the system to protect their shonky ethics and practices - not what the law was meant for, but I bet there's more rogues using the system for protection than there is good people/businesses that it was meant to protect ...

Ahhh ... that's my Saturday Two Cents ... lmao

I should note also, that this guy might in fact be a good operator and gets the opposite of what we're discussing here - he might get 20 information thieves ring him every week wanting to do their own thing, haggle him down, etc, etc ... there's plenty d1ckheads on the customer side of the equation also, and unfortunately some business's cant be blamed for becoming a little cynical ... Still no excuse as such, but something to be remembered when dealing with them ...

[Dingo55]

KRISTOFFA, yes I've drafted a letter to ASE & will get it off to them on Monday but just need to speak to the owner of this company this morning to confirm he is in fact is the author of the replies & not a disgruntled employee who's got access to his email.

cheers,

[AB]

At the end of the day he has to supply you with information of the type of brands he will be using. I wouldn't buy anything without knowing that information...That's very odd indeed!!!

[macca]

Mate I would love 2 see a name and shame thread, but unfortunately the forum has been down this path before with a company threatening legal action for shaming them in a post if their name is not removed.

Cheers

Todd

Some how eBays does it, their feed back is a way to make suppliers keep their standards high, without threat of legals.

Must be a term of use.

Be good if it could carry over to the greater community.

[MQ MAD]

Asking about a products fitment , isnt exactly asking what every mm of item or items are required and from where
You ask if the product fits, he answered, and didnt want to elaborate any further with regards to produscts they use,or any other info
Thats fair , really isnt it,i dont disclose every item i use in products i make, and never ever disclose where said products come from or how exactly i make em,because then everyone would do it, and in this day and age of internet questions , you dont know if its a genuine customer asking or the opposition
Its a little sneaky like that
The way the seller responded it seems that he gets this type of questions or issues fairly regular
I think the sellers response was a tad over the top,but if your not really interested in his product why the constant hammering,isnt that called time waster ???

[Clunk]

Personally I don't see a problem with the guys response, if you don't like the answer or feel he hasn't answered fully, pass him off as a dickhead, laugh because he has lost your business and move on to someone else ........ a phone call probably would have been better than an email, if it was possible...............my 2 cents

[Dingo55]

MQ MAD, you've given this some consideration & I think I should respond to you. If you have a close look at the photo of the i/c this seller has on their ebay site you can see the letters 'ASE' in the bottom right of the i/c body. ASE are a quality product and one that I would be interested in purchasing, which is why I asked in my first question to the seller to confirm that not only would it fit my vehicle, but also 'what brand is the intercooler, or the manufacturer please'. Some sellers on ebay misrepresent the product they are selling, so I wanted to confirm with this seller that the i/c was in fact an ASE product. The seller chose not to disclose the brand or the manufacturer for their own reasons, which is the sellers prerogative, but I put it to you that the seller may not have wanted me to know the brand or manufacturer so that I couldn't by-pass the seller and go direct to the manufacturer, or some other seller, to purchase the i/c. The seller says confirms that in a later response - You are just upset I wont tell you everything we do so you can go down the road and try elsewhere. Note that I didn't ask the seller to tell me everything we do, I simply asked the seller to identify the brand or manufacturer. You've suggested the sellers position on that point is fair. I disagree with you. I think it's fair and reasonable to expect a seller to disclose the brand or the manufacturer. If the seller doesn't know those details then I would accept that, but I hardly think this seller doesn't know from whom they purchase the products they on-sell. As for 'constant hammering' I'll also disagree with you there too. Sometimes it's necessary to respond to what a person says, which I did.

cheers,

[Winnie]

If a customer at work asked me what brand a product was, I'd be STUPID to not tell them. So what if they go down the road and get the same product? It means my price was not good enough and you cannot blame a person for trying to find the best deal, I do it myself all the time.

[Dingo55]

Personally I don't see a problem with the guys response, if you don't like the answer or feel he hasn't answered fully, pass him off as a dickhead, laugh because he has lost your business and move on to someone else ........ a phone call probably would have been better than an email, if it was possible...............my 2 cents

Fair call Clunk, that's one way of dealing with things. It wasn't possible to call the seller at the time, but I did call them this morning to discuss the matter but they didn't want to talk about it.

cheers,

[Clunk]

Dingo, now please don't take this the wrong way but he probably thought you were trying to be a smart arse, as would have done and no doubt others would have too. There's something in the written form that gets lost in translation, that's why I say a phone call would have been the better option and would probably have ended with a better result for both parties............... a massive part of my working day is customer service and for me personally working for a supplier of various goods phone calls win over everytime.

[MC97GQ]

There's another thing to remember with customer service, If you get good customer service you might tell one or two people, if you get bad customer service you will tell a dozen.

Having said that though, Clunk is right a phone call probably would have been better you could have gauged his demeanour by the tone in his voice. When you got the first response you probably should have let it go, I'm not saying this as a criticism of you Dingo, but the problem with email and the web is we generally start typing and hit send before we have fully engaged the brain. Which ends up in email tennis and someone trying to get the last word in.

And anyway you have the last laugh because he doesn't get your hard earned, so it's his loss.

Mark

[Dingo55]

There's another thing to remember with customer service, If you get good customer service you might tell one or two people, if you get bad customer service you will tell a dozen.

Having said that though, Clunk is right a phone call probably would have been better you could have gauged his demeanour by the tone in his voice. When you got the first response you probably should have let it go, I'm not saying this as a criticism of you Dingo, but the problem with email and the web is we generally start typing and hit send before we have fully engaged the brain. Which ends up in email tennis and someone trying to get the last word in.

And anyway you have the last laugh because he doesn't get your hard earned, so it's his loss.

Mark

Mark, thanks for your thoughts. I know you didn't mean your comment 'you have the last laugh' to indicate any preference in this matter. I'm not looking for the last laugh, my point firstly was to demonstrate, in my opinion, poor customer service & secondly the rudeness of the replies.

cheers,

[megatexture]

While i would love the idea of name and shame you just never know. i own a small business and advertise on true local and they have a reference section for you to leave comments and one of our competitors had made up and account and gave my business a bad wrap that i knew wasnt true so i looked into their account and found out they had commented basically the same thing on 3 other competitors also. So though it would be awesome to name and shame, the ones that should be shamed can turn it around on the honest.

[04OFF]

While there are things i may not agree with in regard to the OP, im very sure that if i was looking at spending a $1000 on "anything", id want to know exactly what i was getting for my money regardless, even more so with regard to intercoolers, especially when there are so many $300 china intercoolers on ebay ,not that they are bad, but who would want to risk paying a Grand for one ?

[threedogs]

Give micheal a PM at diesel smart, he has welded intercoolers for Di and CR at very good prices, change over I would suspect and tested to 60psi. thats where I'm going

[the ferret]

Well now you know who not to deal with Dingo.............and so do we.
Have a look on Ebay mate.
Cheers, the ferret.

[MC97GQ]

Mark, thanks for your thoughts. I know you didn't mean your comment 'you have the last laugh' to indicate any preference in this matter. I'm not looking for the last laugh, my point firstly was to demonstrate, in my opinion, poor customer service & secondly the rudeness of the replies.

cheers,

Dingo,

I actually did mean my comment about the last laugh, not that you were being petty or any thing like that. That is the great thing about the internet it gives you many choices to source parts and equipment. Due to the rudeness of this bloke you have the choice to vote with your feet and go elsewhere to source your stuff for the intercooler which means he doesn't get your money.

I work for myself and had a customer yesterday ask whether I minded if she recommended me to other potential customers, as she thought I might be too busy. I said by all means, as the work you knock back, is the work you never get.(apparently that same expression works for sex too, but that's another story).

The great thing about this forum is that there are dozens of people on here who can pass on the name of suppliers who will provide excellent initial and follow up customer service for the stuff you need.

Good luck with the intercooler

Mark

[MQ MAD]

Was looking for an intercooler upgrade & asked a 4WD parts supplier this question:

Dear ******,
Hi, will this intercooler fit my 2006 GU 4.2TDi, it's an ST-L? Also, what brand is the intercooler, or the manufacturer please? Thank you.

and here's the answer I got:

Yes it will fit, as it is the same intercooler used on all the 4.2TDi across that era. We do not provide parts information, specifications or other details on our kits. Everyone wants to know what we are doing so they can copy the best kits available. Not suggesting this is your intention, but we have a strict rule of no product part information disclosure. Cheers. Chris

- ******

See pic of the intercooler I was asking about that they were advertising for $1145. Did a bit more research & found it's an ASE product which you can get direct from ASE for $950 including post.

But what kind of answer is 'everyone wants to know what we are doing so they can copy the best kits available'? Would have preferred an honest answer like 'it's an ASE kit that we on-sell with a $200 mark-up'.

my reply:

Dear ******,Thanks for your very unsurprising reply. The only thing I assumed was you'd be honest, fair and provide good customer assistance.


and the response was:

[B]Are you going to continue with messages about how I can run my business better to suit you, or are you ready to move on. You got your initial answer, it will fit. What you don't like is that I'm not going to tell you how to circumvent me because I know that's what you want to do.
[/B

You asked the question, you got an answer
If you were even remotely interested in said product, dont hide behind a computer screen,ring the bloke
If im even remotely interested in spending that amount of money , i can afford a fone call,and i only use mobile fones

Now if youve done your research and you know exactly what parts he uses , well you must cause your worried imensly about him taken $200 from the final price, with that have you calculated,any associated costs he mite have incured, any issues he mite have with a product thats sent thats not right, and handling issues he mite have, last i checked noone works for free, then you have his rent, his associated overheads,if you sell a product and dont make a profit , you dont bother, who seriously is in business and makes no profit
Noone will ever disclose ," We pay x amount and make Y amount profit ",especially in a untitled, unknown email enquiry,even after a few fone calls, stuff like that never gets disclosed, who does that ???
I get that you enquired, but he answered an well enuf in his first reply
"Strict rule of no product part information disclosure"

Ill ask you this have you ever ran your own businees, have you ever made a product that could be easily copied ???
Would you like to make a product and have others copy or sell cheaper than yourself
The title "Hows this for customer service" ??? , thats what i dont get
Your not his customer, your just a person enquiring and asking many questions

[Dingo55]

You asked the question, you got an answer -

yes, but the full answer didn't address my full question - what was the brand or the manufacturer

If you were even remotely interested in said product, dont hide behind a computer screen,ring the bloke -

I couldn't ring the seller at that time, but I did ring him yesterday

If im even remotely interested in spending that amount of money , i can afford a fone call,and i only use mobile fones

Now if youve done your research and you know exactly what parts he uses ,

- I didn't initially know the full product content, but later discovered it was a standard ASE top mount high flow i/c with all parts being ASE with no additional parts added to the item by the seller -
well you must cause your worried imensly about him taken $200 from the final price, with that have you calculated,any associated costs he mite have incured, any issues he mite have with a product thats sent thats not right, and handling issues he mite have, last i checked noone works for free, then you have his rent, his associated overheads,if you sell a product and dont make a profit , you dont bother, who seriously is in business and makes no profit -

the price mark-up by the seller on a standard ASE i/c wasn't of concern to me, I was only stating a fact that it was marked up, the seller can mark-up to moon for all I care

Noone will ever disclose ," We pay x amount and make Y amount profit ",especially in a untitled, unknown email enquiry,even after a few fone calls, stuff like that never gets disclosed, who does that ??? -

I didn't ask the seller to disclose their profit margin

I get that you enquired, but he answered an well enuf in his first reply
"Strict rule of no product part information disclosure" -

true, but as potential customer I wanted to know the brand & manufacturer, I think that is a fair & reasonable position

Ill ask you this have you ever ran your own businees,-

yes, a security consulting & risk management business as a sub-contractor delivering personal protection, surveillance, asset control -

have you ever made a product that could be easily copied ??? -

no have never made or manufactured a hard form tangile product for sale on in a market , but I take the point you're making. In respect to this matter however, the i/c was a standard ASE top mount high flow with ASE parts only & none that were advertised by the seller as being of propriety owenership of that seller, if it was my intent, which it wasn't, to copy any of the parts or the idea/concept of the item, then that would have essentially been copying an ASE product , not a unique product of this seller


Would you like to make a product and have others copy or sell cheaper than yourself -


I take your point, but I think I've answered the point you're making immediately above

The title "Hows this for customer service" ??? , thats what i dont get -

is it ok in your definition of customer service to be abusive to a customer or potential customer? 'IQ of a cockroach, tool, delinquent'?


Your not his customer, your just a person enquiring and asking many questions -

that reminds me of a visit I made to a military doctor once, 'What's wrong with you? I'm sick Sir. How do you know you're sick, are you a doctor?' When is a customer a customer, before or after they purchase or invest in your product? I think a progressive trader would consider everyone in their product target zone as a customer, but some just haven't purchased or invested in the product yet.

[Clunk]

A person or persons are not customers until they have purchased items, until such point they are prospective customers

[MQ MAD]

Being a manufacturer and own seller of my product
You have to treat each prospective customer on its merit
But when non product/supplier info is a company policy to non disclose,and i kept getting questions pertaining to this product/supplier info clause. id be a tad annoyed about the constant asking
In this day and age of online selling and every 2nd business shutting due to people buying elsewhere for whatever the reason,you have to be a little savvy with email enquiries, especially when said enquiry could just be product hunting to help source said product elsewhere
See your point, but the seller of said product is just trying to stop people from buying elsewhere,protecting his lively hood...

I get the same line of questions in what i make, people ask "Oh but i can get that $300 cheaper" , when i ask "Oh from where ",they usually answer with something stoopid like ,'Oh Melbourne "
Im in QLD , if these numbnuts wanna drive all the way to Melbourne , good for them , but i have to explain , that yeah i mite be deaer as opposed to someone a few thousand Ks away, but im delivering and installing said product,getting said product sent from Melbourne costs over $500 , but they dont look at the costs delivered, just the asking price
Being in retail is a PITA .........

[Dingo55]

A person or persons are not customers until they have purchased items, until such point they are prospective customers

or spies of the opposition?

[Clunk]

or spies of the opposition?

Depends on the paranoia level of the vendor!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me I treat all customers and prospective customers the same...... with disdain and contempt!!!!!!!! Hahahahaha

[MQ MAD]

A person or persons are not customers until they have purchased items, until such point they are prospective customers

No what ya do is, email a business asking aboout a product and when they wont disclose relevant info pertaining to said product as its against their company policy, you proceed to go google searching then bag the bastards out on a public forum as they wont give their info to the first anonymous email they receive then you proceed to name and shame them ...
If thats what the new age customer is all about, ill shut shop and the workshop down right now ...

[megatexture]

i don’t see the big deal of a email inquiries over a phone call i receive emails every day for quotes and i treat them equally and in a way i actually prefer them over phone calls as i can call/email them back in my own time rather than being forced to deal with every inquiry there and then.