Defected

[Richo460]

So i was at the shop today and came out to find queensland tansport all over my GQ. they were going to put me over the pits but due to me working overseas they are going to chase me up later. great.
Anyway they were not real happy with my 4" lift. they say that it can only be on third more or less than the standard distance between the bump stops or something.
Anyway after a long discussion the fact that i didn't have a rear bar on the car was the first thing, no rear mud flaps, aparently don't need fronts in qld. I have a complete lack of mod plates and generally would be screwed if put over the pits.
Got some lowered springs to put in, hopefully it doesn't completely screw up my suspension geometry but it prob will. Gotta find some sway bars from somewhere.

Here is a photo of me stuck in a bog hole the other day. Lost my front locker cause the air line failed, but was very stuck and had to winch myself out. Really needed 35's but after the transport goons got me i am not sure i will get them now.

[Silver]

bummer, but a risk we take when we step over the line.

Indications from some more knowledgeable than me are that the line will be moved a bit in the direction you have taken, with some sort of national standard - but don't thing it will cover 4" lifts - someone more knowledgeable on this will provide details no doubt.

[AB]

Sorry to hear mate, news we all dread to hear ourselves when seeing the boys in blue on the road.

Someone from here will hopefully sort you out with the sway bars locally mate.

[nissannewby]

Im nearly use to it have been done many a time for driving with 35's on the road been over the pit once they asked me to come back, so i went back (all at a cost to me) they still werent satisfied, but I did learn some things, asked me to go back again and i didnt got sent a fine a few weeks later and that was the end of it.

[Richo460]

i am in the process of putting the rear bar on and getting mud flaps so if they had have been on he might have not stopped but after a bit of arguing and a longer conversation they were more reasonable than at the start. I aksed alot of questions about the topics we regularly talk about on here so it was good to find out a bit of info about legalities so some good things came of it. In the end i know the rig is a bit high and i have now bought some legal springs and sourced some sway bars from the wreckers up here so all is good, it will prob be alot easier and better to drive too. The lift is probably not going to help a whole lot off road anyway.

[growler2058]

I've got a big kick arse set of truck CAT flaps on mine and from the back even with custom bar 4" lift and 1/4 chop it doesn't get a second glance


Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[Chris79]

How do they know the original bump stop clearance? wouldnt be to many standard non sagged ones around to compare. Put some bigger bump stops on lol

[growler2058]

How do they know the original bump stop clearance? wouldnt be to many standard non sagged ones around to compare. Put some bigger bump stops on lol

Prix probably downloaded the manual hahahahaahahahhaaha


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ijq3jh
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[Richo460]

yeah when he said about the bump stop thing i questioned on about what it was supposed to be and how he knew it was illegal when he didn't know what it was supposed to be, after that he was a bit more reasonable. I asked alot of questions about legalities. i asked about who could make bullbars and sliders and rear bars, heaps of stuff, in the end they said they had to go cause i kept asking questions and they were running out of answers.

[nissannewby]

Thats how they get a lot of people they tell them something and the offender doesnt know so they go along with it and cop a fine. When you have knowledge and are questioning them they back pedal pretty quick.

[MQ MAD]

So i was at the shop today and came out to find queensland tansport all over my GQ. they were going to put me over the pits but due to me working overseas they are going to chase me up later. great.
Anyway they were not real happy with my 4" lift. they say that it can only be on third more or less than the standard distance between the bump stops or something.
Anyway after a long discussion the fact that i didn't have a rear bar on the car was the first thing, no rear mud flaps, aparently don't need fronts in qld. I have a complete lack of mod plates and generally would be screwed if put over the pits.
Got some lowered springs to put in, hopefully it doesn't completely screw up my suspension geometry but it prob will. Gotta find some sway bars from somewhere.


Arent you the one that tells people that illegal lifts are fine and noone ever gets caught ???
ALL the mod laws you can or cant do are on the QLD DOT website
4 " lift never ever or ever will be legal, no mud flaps at rear not legal ,and your running no rear bar, thats a safety issue,then throw in 35 " tyres that arent legal either
I dont feel sorry for anyone who flaunts with the rules,gee the rules are the most common thing talked about ....

Get no sympathy vote from me .....

[growler2058]

Arent you the one that tells people that illegal lifts are fine and noone ever gets caught ???
ALL the mod laws you can or cant do are on the QLD DOT website
4 " lift never ever or ever will be legal, no mud flaps at rear not legal ,and your running no rear bar, thats a safety issue,then throw in 35 " tyres that arent legal either
I dont feel sorry for anyone who flaunts with the rules,gee the rules are the most common thing talked about ....

Get no sympathy vote from me .....

Youre a hard hard man ;-)



---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?lo5z3f
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[MQ MAD]

Youre a hard hard man ;-)



---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?lo5z3f
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

Not really, the problem is with all these cars running illegal mods that are involved in crashes the insurance companies dont need any excuse to walk from a claim
Id hate to ever have a family member injured or hospitalised due to some wombat in their illegally modded car who then gets their ring sued, and doesnt have the money to pay for medical bills or car repairs to the persom or persoms they injure
Mate was rear ended on his bike by some wombat who needed to hand his licence in cause well he couldnt see the bike in front
My mate is now a quadraplegic and the dude who hit him,went bankrupt as he couldnt pay for the damages he incured,as his insurance company walked due to an unsafe and unroadworthy car ...
Ol mate has a hospital bill bigger than the national debt , and not only is he a quadraplagic he has to pay the bill as well

[NissanGQ4.2]

Not really, the problem is with all these cars running illegal mods that are involved in crashes the insurance companies dont need any excuse to walk from a claim
Id hate to ever have a family member injured or hospitalised due to some wombat in their illegally modded car who then gets their ring sued, and doesnt have the money to pay for medical bills or car repairs to the persom or persoms they injure

True but this also happens when people aren't insured 2, plenty of them about.


Mate was rear ended on his bike by some wombat who needed to hand his licence in cause well he couldnt see the bike in front
My mate is now a quadraplegic and the dude who hit him,went bankrupt as he couldnt pay for the damages he incured,as his insurance company walked due to an unsafe and unroadworthy car ...
Ol mate has a hospital bill bigger than the national debt , and not only is he a quadraplagic he has to pay the bill as well

Sorry 2 hear about your mate, but was he rear ended because the guy was in a lifted 4b or because the he was partially blind. When I had my 6inch lift in I had no problems seeing a bike in front of me.

I agree, rules are rules, if you break them and get caught, pay the fine you know you were breaking the rules.

I do disagree with the current laws. But I won't even go it 2 that

[89gqpatrol4x4]

I agree with with mq mad on the issue of insurance and people just claiming bankruptcy to get out of not paying! That just plain sucks. On the other hand I think a lot of these "illegal" mods have not been thought through, with some of them actually making the car safer than factory! The departement of transport needs to wake up and have a real good look at was is and isn't safe, there is also a big difference between someone who has spent the dollers on a proffessinal lift for example and some backyard job. A bit of common sense and realistic legislation is in order.

[the evil twin]

snip...
On the other hand I think a lot of these "illegal" mods have not been thought through, with some of them actually making the car safer than factory! The departement of transport needs to wake up and have a real good look at was is and isn't safe,



Apologies for the snip but... Wow, thats a big call.

At the risk of the thread hijacking, could you pop up a few examples of what you mean. I can't think of any "illegal" mod making a car safer than factory. Just because I can't think of some doesn't mean there aren't of course.

Certainly a 4 inch lift for example doesn't improve safety even if it is "engineered" as all that the engineering does is bring the vehicle up to an acceptable standard as the lift degraded the safety immensely. I would strongly suggest in 9 cases out of 10 even an engineered lift still below factory performance head to head in braking and stability.

Why?... people lift to put on bigger dia tyres, bigger dia tyres cut the braking efficiency significantly. Some may argue but it is simple physics as the turning moment or leverage acting against the brake effect is now much greater. Again, a factory truck would be a better performer

[bigrig77]

Apologies for the snip but... Wow, thats a big call.

At the risk of the thread hijacking, could you pop up a few examples of what you mean. I can't think of any "illegal" mod making a car safer than factory. Just because I can't think of some doesn't mean there aren't of course.

Certainly a 4 inch lift for example doesn't improve safety even if it is "engineered" as all that the engineering does is bring the vehicle up to an acceptable standard as the lift degraded the safety immensely. I would strongly suggest in 9 cases out of 10 even an engineered lift still below factory performance head to head in braking and stability.

Why?... people lift to put on bigger dia tyres, bigger dia tyres cut the braking efficiency significantly. Some may argue but it is simple physics as the turning moment or leverage acting against the brake effect is now much greater. Again, a factory truck would be a better performer

Can't agree with this,my car handles better now with lifted after market springs than it ever did with original set up ( and it is a 4inch lift car was only 36000 km old when I bought it) you can make your v8 commodore or falcon pump out a lot more power than standard but I don't see them being defected for not upgrading brakes or suspension or fitting of appropriate tyres plus the tyres I that came with the car were brand new maxxis bravos which were down rite dangerous in the wet were legal but my km2's which are much better in all conditions are also " illegal" guess my point is just because it's " illegal" doesn't mean it's unsafe , and just because someone can write out a ticket doesn't mean they know what the fu#k they are on about. My 2 bobs worth.

[Clunk]

Maxxis bravos aren't OEM spec tyres.......... in regards to the lift, I'll be sticking with the 2in I have, I really can't be bothered with the hassle of being pinged by the folks in blue.

[bigrig77]

Maxxis bravos aren't OEM spec tyres.......... in regards to the lift, I'll be sticking with the 2in I have, I really can't be bothered with the hassle of being pinged by the folks in blue.

They may not be OEM spec but they are legal, modified or unmodified if you drive outside your vehicles capabilities or your own the result will be the same.

[bigrig77]

Simple physics of larger tyre radius and higher centre of gravity = reduced braking reduced stability. ET is on the money. This is an age old argument that never dies and is hard to understand why. Copped heaps in the past and may cop it again but would love to see proof of how common lifts improve on-road safety (notice I didn't say off road ability).
Don't remember saying a lift improved safety ( car does feel better to drive cant say that it would handle an emergency better luckily havnt had too find out) but swerve to avoid an accident lift or no lift , in a 2.2 to 3 ton 4x4 with poor brake performance as standard it's not goin to make much of a difference , as I said earlier if you don't drive like a knob you can be as safe as anyone else.

[bigrig77]

Apologies, I must have misunderstood this statement.

My bad have edited my last post.

[Bigrig]

I've stayed out of this one for good reason ... however, as per another post I put up recently I swapped the suspension on another GQ (3" lift, new sway bars even, extended link pins, new offset radius arm bushes, new bushes all round), and after driving it, I'd put it up against any (and I mean ANY) variant old or new off the showroom floor. This thing is dead set the firmest suspension (still comfortable) patrol I reckon I've ever been in - improved braking due to no forward/rear "slump", improved handling and cornering, and far better response at the wheel (couldn't understand that one truth be told, but just feels 'toight like a tiger' ... lol).

Absolutely agree on anyone running the gauntlet with illegal setups (no matter how inane the legislation is perceived) - if you do it, you get pinged and pay the penalty - simple as that ... contest it and attempt to debate it and/or make excuses all you like, but its no different to running a red light ... sure, there was no other cars around at the time, but that doesn't mean you can pick and choose when you comply with the rules. It was red, and you're in breach if you run it ...

Now before anyone who doesn't know me jumps on their high horse and attempts to inform me what I've stated incorrectly, or what "I don't know", or that I'm "no expert", you're absolutely correct on all counts ... as all setups and most cars are different in some fashion and what I've just said may not apply in all (and many) circumstances ... and on top of that, my rig is without a doubt NOT as safe as it was the day it rolled off the showroom floor - not just because it's lifted (although engineer complied), not just because of bigger tyres, and not because it's got a heap of mods ... they all contribute no doubt ... but just as importantly, it's not as safe because it's 20 years old, the roads are more populated, the road rules and build design rules of cars have changed, and I'll never (without serious coin and compromise) be able to match current setups due to only having twin piston calipers, due to having live axles, due to having a centre of gravity designed without body roll issues in mind (or certainly not as good as today's trucks), and due the limitations of safety enhancements available for the rig whether I wanted them or not.

My long winded point - irrespective of what you do to your rig, take accountability for everything YOU do to it as YOU'RE the one making the decision. Make it as practical and functional as possible with absolute consideration for safety, performance, legal compliance, and your personal use in mind ... if you still fall foul of legislation, then that's YOUR fault - not mine, not a pedestrians, not the other drivers, and not the government ...

I'm by no means the best driver around, but just about every second I am behind the wheel, I consider the car I'm in and it's capabilities (bearin in mind I had a Grange, a 6.0ltr Clubsport, and a supercharged Spec RB before this patrol - so not just talking our behemoths here) and as such, drive appropriately - accidents do happen, that's why they're called accidents and not purposements (yes I made that word up!! lol) and we generally can't avoid them, but we can make them less of an impact on everyone involved by driving appropriately with consideration for all road users as well as wandering wildlife, and hopefully, just maybe, irrespective of the accident, you'll have been prepared and the outcome is one that you and everyone else walks away from saying "wow, that could've been far worse" ...

Fingers crossed, those "accidents" haven't found me for a long time (over 20 years since I've had one) and I do about 25000-30000 on the road every year ... that doesn't mean I'm good, I'm simply a little more prepared and pre cautious regarding the vehicle I drive, how I've set it up for my personal wants, and subsequently how that setup affects its (and my) ability.

I've been picked up for no mudflaps (now have them), non compliant steering wheel (not a sports wheel or anything like that, but still not compliant and I accept that), but have a lift, have mud tyres, have lockers and other assorted goodies that make the truck a weapon off road - and that is all mod plated/engineer certified and as such have NEVER had a problem.

If you run 35's - why? If you run a 6" lift - why? Unless you're competing I don't get it - a good driver in an average setup truck will go further EVERY TIME over a poor driver in a monster truck ... and unfortunately, most (yes, I'm using a wide brush but don't mean to categorise every person) people in monster trucks do it for two primary reasons - 1. It just looks good, and 2. I'm not good enough at the wheel and wish to compensate for it ...

More than happy to set up a challenge to prove the theory - I'll go in it, but more
Importantly, I'll get someone like
Hekarewe or Ben-e-boy or NissanNewby behind the wheel of a standard truck, and my money is on them getting further than you ... they are awesome wheel workers, and having watched them, I feel embarrassed at my lack of capability when I thought I was a star - and 2 of those 3 blokes are 15 years younger than me (and I'm not 40 yet).

Ahhhhh ... that was an effort ... lmao ... thumbs are worn to stumps as I typed this on tapatalk on my iPhone!!! Lots of swearing at the spellchecker and my missus thinks I'm a mental case who yells at inanimate objects like phones!!!! LMFAO!!

EDIT: just spoke with the missus who's the national sales manager of a major suspension outlet, and the fact of the matte is two fold:

1. If cars were built for safety and not simply by the cheapest bidder using the cheapest components whilst still meeting ADR compliance, we'd be paying twice as much for them.

2. In reference to point 1, this is fact - there are 4 known variants currently available that are sold in Australia where the manufacturers suspension specs are nowhere near the safety and performance level of aftermarket kits available - these are the D40, Hilux, BT50 (Ford Ranger is the same and doesn't count as a different variant for my argument) and the Colorado. There are more, but after testing, all 4 have been proven to have increased braking and cornering and load capacity performance with the removal of the OME setup and replacement with another kit (name withheld, but PM me if you want it). This again, is absolute fact, so yes, SOME vehicles are enhanced and are absolutely safer with aftermarket parts applied ... not all, but I'm sort of sitting on both sides of this discussion - proving points for both sides of the debate ...

[Bigrig]

Simple physics of larger tyre radius and higher centre of gravity = reduced braking reduced stability. ET is on the money. This is an age old argument that never dies and is hard to understand why. Copped heaps in the past and may cop it again but would love to see proof of how common lifts improve on-road safety (notice I didn't say off road ability).

What would you know ....

LMFAO!!!!!

Love ya Plassy!!!! Couldn't let it go though!!! lol

[bigrig77]

I've stayed out of this one for good reason ... however, as per another post I put up recently I swapped the suspension on another GQ (3" lift, new sway bars even, extended link pins, new offset radius arm bushes, new bushes all round), and after driving it, I'd put it up against any (and I mean ANY) variant old or new off the showroom floor. This thing is dead set the firmest suspension (still comfortable) patrol I reckon I've ever been in - improved braking due to no forward/rear "slump", improved handling and cornering, and far better response at the wheel (couldn't understand that one truth be told, but just feels 'toight like a tiger' ... lol).

Absolutely agree on anyone running the gauntlet with illegal setups (no matter how inane the legislation is perceived) - if you do it, you get pinged and pay the penalty - simple as that ... contest it and attempt to debate it and/or make excuses all you like, but its no different to running a red light ... sure, there was no other cars around at the time, but that doesn't mean you can pick and choose when you comply with the rules. It was red, and you're in breach if you run it ...

Now before anyone who doesn't know me jumps on their high horse and attempts to inform me what I've stated incorrectly, or what "I don't know", or that I'm "no expert", you're absolutely correct on all counts ... as all setups and most cars are different in some fashion and what I've just said may not apply in all (and many) circumstances ... and on top of that, my rig is without a doubt NOT as safe as it was the day it rolled off the showroom floor - not just because it's lifted (although engineer complied), not just because of bigger tyres, and not because it's got a heap of mods ... they all contribute no doubt ... but just as importantly, it's not as safe because it's 20 years old, the roads are more populated, the road rules and build design rules of cars have changed, and I'll never (without serious coin and compromise) be able to match current setups due to only having twin piston calipers, due to having live axles, due to having a centre of gravity designed without body roll issues in mind (or certainly not as good as today's trucks), and due the limitations of safety enhancements available for the rig whether I wanted them or not.

My long winded point - irrespective of what you do to your rig, take accountability for everything YOU do to it as YOU'RE the one making the decision. Make it as practical and functional as possible with absolute consideration for safety, performance, legal compliance, and your personal use in mind ... if you still fall foul of legislation, then that's YOUR fault - not mine, not a pedestrians, not the other drivers, and not the government ...

I'm by no means the best driver around, but just about every second I am behind the wheel, I consider the car I'm in and it's capabilities (bearin in mind I had a Grange, a 6.0ltr Clubsport, and a supercharged Spec RB before this patrol - so not just talking our behemoths here) and as such, drive appropriately - accidents do happen, that's why they're called accidents and not purposements (yes I made that word up!! lol) and we generally can't avoid them, but we can make them less of an impact on everyone involved by driving appropriately with consideration for all road users as well as wandering wildlife, and hopefully, just maybe, irrespective of the accident, you'll have been prepared and the outcome is one that you and everyone else walks away from saying "wow, that could've been far worse" ...

Fingers crossed, those "accidents" haven't found me for a long time (over 20 years since I've had one) and I do about 25000-30000 on the road every year ... that doesn't mean I'm good, I'm simply a little more prepared and pre cautious regarding the vehicle I drive, how I've set it up for my personal wants, and subsequently how that setup affects its (and my) ability.

I've been picked up for no mudflaps (now have them), non compliant steering wheel (not a sports wheel or anything like that, but still not compliant and I accept that), but have a lift, have mud tyres, have lockers and other assorted goodies that make the truck a weapon off road - and that is all mod plated/engineer certified and as such have NEVER had a problem.

If you run 35's - why? If you run a 6" lift - why? Unless you're competing I don't get it - a good driver in an average setup truck will go further EVERY TIME over a poor driver in a monster truck ... and unfortunately, most (yes, I'm using a wide brush but don't mean to categorise every person) people in monster trucks do it for two primary reasons - 1. It just looks good, and 2. I'm not good enough at the wheel and wish to compensate for it ...

More than happy to set up a challenge to prove the theory - I'll go in it, but more
Importantly, I'll get someone like
Hekarewe or Ben-e-boy or NissanNewby behind the wheel of a standard truck, and my money is on them getting further than you ... they are awesome wheel workers, and having watched them, I feel embarrassed at my lack of capability when I thought I was a star - and 2 of those 3 blokes are 15 years younger than me (and I'm not 40 yet).

Ahhhhh ... that was an effort ... lmao ... thumbs are worn to stumps as I typed this on tapatalk on my iPhone!!! Lots of swearing at the spellchecker and my missus thinks I'm a mental case who yells at inanimate objects like phones!!!! LMFAO!!

EDIT: just spoke with the missus who's the national sales manager of a major suspension outlet, and the fact of the matte is two fold:

1. If cars were built for safety and not simply by the cheapest bidder using the cheapest components whilst still meeting ADR compliance, we'd be paying twice as much for them.

2. In reference to point 1, this is fact - there are 4 known variants currently available that are sold in Australia where the manufacturers suspension specs are nowhere near the safety and performance level of aftermarket kits available - these are the D40, Hilux, BT50 (Ford Ranger is the same and doesn't count as a different variant for my argument) and the Colorado. There are more, but after testing, all 4 have been proven to have increased braking and cornering and load capacity performance with the removal of the OME setup and replacement with another kit (name withheld, but PM me if you want it). This again, is absolute fact, so yes, SOME vehicles are enhanced and are absolutely safer with aftermarket parts applied ... not all, but I'm sort of sitting on both sides of this discussion - proving points for both sides of the debate ...

Wow!!! Ha ha nice effort Bigrig.

[Bigrig]

Wow!!! Ha ha nice effort Bigrig.

Still exhausted brother!!!! lmfao!!!

[threedogs]

pretty sure 4" should be legal, there was a push to have a max of 2", but fell through swerve testing and all that. your truck sticks out because you have no mud flaps, what happens to the poor bloke following you after a day in the mud. 2' lift will get you most places. Down here in Mexico I know of one truck with 6" spring and 4" body lift, its a 100s tojo. looks stupid and can't really see the benefit. pretty strict up in Jo land I hear. Not hard to keep a truck "looking" legal

Who wants their truck to look like a skateboard!

[threedogs]

Bigrigs point is correct IMO, Lets take Comp trucks as an example, in Mexico they only have 3" lift max and oh so soft up in Jo land they seem to think higher is better. you can build a very capable 20 yo truck with only 2-3" lift, but put mud flaps on the back how hard can that be. Check the Comp trucks on 4WD TV you wont see a single truck with a 6" lift, mainly because suspension, diff locks have come along way. who would think a live axle out of the showroom from today could go further than older tricked up truck. No mud flaps you might as well just drive to the local Cop shop and donate $300 every week

[growler2058]

I've stayed out of this one for good reason ... however, as per another post I put up recently I swapped the suspension on another GQ (3" lift, new sway bars even, extended link pins, new offset radius arm bushes, new bushes all round), and after driving it, I'd put it up against any (and I mean ANY) variant old or new off the showroom floor. This thing is dead set the firmest suspension (still comfortable) patrol I reckon I've ever been in - improved braking due to no forward/rear "slump", improved handling and cornering, and far better response at the wheel (couldn't understand that one truth be told, but just feels 'toight like a tiger' ... lol).

Absolutely agree on anyone running the gauntlet with illegal setups (no matter how inane the legislation is perceived) - if you do it, you get pinged and pay the penalty - simple as that ... contest it and attempt to debate it and/or make excuses all you like, but its no different to running a red light ... sure, there was no other cars around at the time, but that doesn't mean you can pick and choose when you comply with the rules. It was red, and you're in breach if you run it ...

Now before anyone who doesn't know me jumps on their high horse and attempts to inform me what I've stated incorrectly, or what "I don't know", or that I'm "no expert", you're absolutely correct on all counts ... as all setups and most cars are different in some fashion and what I've just said may not apply in all (and many) circumstances ... and on top of that, my rig is without a doubt NOT as safe as it was the day it rolled off the showroom floor - not just because it's lifted (although engineer complied), not just because of bigger tyres, and not because it's got a heap of mods ... they all contribute no doubt ... but just as importantly, it's not as safe because it's 20 years old, the roads are more populated, the road rules and build design rules of cars have changed, and I'll never (without serious coin and compromise) be able to match current setups due to only having twin piston calipers, due to having live axles, due to having a centre of gravity designed without body roll issues in mind (or certainly not as good as today's trucks), and due the limitations of safety enhancements available for the rig whether I wanted them or not.

My long winded point - irrespective of what you do to your rig, take accountability for everything YOU do to it as YOU'RE the one making the decision. Make it as practical and functional as possible with absolute consideration for safety, performance, legal compliance, and your personal use in mind ... if you still fall foul of legislation, then that's YOUR fault - not mine, not a pedestrians, not the other drivers, and not the government ...

I'm by no means the best driver around, but just about every second I am behind the wheel, I consider the car I'm in and it's capabilities (bearin in mind I had a Grange, a 6.0ltr Clubsport, and a supercharged Spec RB before this patrol - so not just talking our behemoths here) and as such, drive appropriately - accidents do happen, that's why they're called accidents and not purposements (yes I made that word up!! lol) and we generally can't avoid them, but we can make them less of an impact on everyone involved by driving appropriately with consideration for all road users as well as wandering wildlife, and hopefully, just maybe, irrespective of the accident, you'll have been prepared and the outcome is one that you and everyone else walks away from saying "wow, that could've been far worse" ...

Fingers crossed, those "accidents" haven't found me for a long time (over 20 years since I've had one) and I do about 25000-30000 on the road every year ... that doesn't mean I'm good, I'm simply a little more prepared and pre cautious regarding the vehicle I drive, how I've set it up for my personal wants, and subsequently how that setup affects its (and my) ability.

I've been picked up for no mudflaps (now have them), non compliant steering wheel (not a sports wheel or anything like that, but still not compliant and I accept that), but have a lift, have mud tyres, have lockers and other assorted goodies that make the truck a weapon off road - and that is all mod plated/engineer certified and as such have NEVER had a problem.

If you run 35's - why? If you run a 6" lift - why? Unless you're competing I don't get it - a good driver in an average setup truck will go further EVERY TIME over a poor driver in a monster truck ... and unfortunately, most (yes, I'm using a wide brush but don't mean to categorise every person) people in monster trucks do it for two primary reasons - 1. It just looks good, and 2. I'm not good enough at the wheel and wish to compensate for it ...

More than happy to set up a challenge to prove the theory - I'll go in it, but more
Importantly, I'll get someone like
Hekarewe or Ben-e-boy or NissanNewby behind the wheel of a standard truck, and my money is on them getting further than you ... they are awesome wheel workers, and having watched them, I feel embarrassed at my lack of capability when I thought I was a star - and 2 of those 3 blokes are 15 years younger than me (and I'm not 40 yet).

Ahhhhh ... that was an effort ... lmao ... thumbs are worn to stumps as I typed this on tapatalk on my iPhone!!! Lots of swearing at the spellchecker and my missus thinks I'm a mental case who yells at inanimate objects like phones!!!! LMFAO!!

EDIT: just spoke with the missus who's the national sales manager of a major suspension outlet, and the fact of the matte is two fold:

1. If cars were built for safety and not simply by the cheapest bidder using the cheapest components whilst still meeting ADR compliance, we'd be paying twice as much for them.

2. In reference to point 1, this is fact - there are 4 known variants currently available that are sold in Australia where the manufacturers suspension specs are nowhere near the safety and performance level of aftermarket kits available - these are the D40, Hilux, BT50 (Ford Ranger is the same and doesn't count as a different variant for my argument) and the Colorado. There are more, but after testing, all 4 have been proven to have increased braking and cornering and load capacity performance with the removal of the OME setup and replacement with another kit (name withheld, but PM me if you want it). This again, is absolute fact, so yes, SOME vehicles are enhanced and are absolutely safer with aftermarket parts applied ... not all, but I'm sort of sitting on both sides of this discussion - proving points for both sides of the debate ...

What? Hahahaha


Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[MQ MAD]

I've stayed out of this one for good reason ... however, as per another post I put up recently I swapped the suspension on another GQ (3" lift, new sway bars even, extended link pins, new offset radius arm bushes, new bushes all round), and after driving it, I'd put it up against any (and I mean ANY) variant old or new off the showroom floor. This thing is dead set the firmest suspension (still comfortable) patrol I reckon I've ever been in - improved braking due to no forward/rear "slump", improved handling and cornering, and far better response at the wheel (couldn't understand that one truth be told, but just feels 'toight like a tiger' ... lol).

Absolutely agree on anyone running the gauntlet with illegal setups (no matter how inane the legislation is perceived) - if you do it, you get pinged and pay the penalty - simple as that ... contest it and attempt to debate it and/or make excuses all you like, but its no different to running a red light ... sure, there was no other cars around at the time, but that doesn't mean you can pick and choose when you comply with the rules. It was red, and you're in breach if you run it ...

Now before anyone who doesn't know me jumps on their high horse and attempts to inform me what I've stated incorrectly, or what "I don't know", or that I'm "no expert", you're absolutely correct on all counts ... as all setups and most cars are different in some fashion and what I've just said may not apply in all (and many) circumstances ... and on top of that, my rig is without a doubt NOT as safe as it was the day it rolled off the showroom floor - not just because it's lifted (although engineer complied), not just because of bigger tyres, and not because it's got a heap of mods ... they all contribute no doubt ... but just as importantly, it's not as safe because it's 20 years old, the roads are more populated, the road rules and build design rules of cars have changed, and I'll never (without serious coin and compromise) be able to match current setups due to only having twin piston calipers, due to having live axles, due to having a centre of gravity designed without body roll issues in mind (or certainly not as good as today's trucks), and due the limitations of safety enhancements available for the rig whether I wanted them or not.

My long winded point - irrespective of what you do to your rig, take accountability for everything YOU do to it as YOU'RE the one making the decision. Make it as practical and functional as possible with absolute consideration for safety, performance, legal compliance, and your personal use in mind ... if you still fall foul of legislation, then that's YOUR fault - not mine, not a pedestrians, not the other drivers, and not the government ...

I'm by no means the best driver around, but just about every second I am behind the wheel, I consider the car I'm in and it's capabilities (bearin in mind I had a Grange, a 6.0ltr Clubsport, and a supercharged Spec RB before this patrol - so not just talking our behemoths here) and as such, drive appropriately - accidents do happen, that's why they're called accidents and not purposements (yes I made that word up!! lol) and we generally can't avoid them, but we can make them less of an impact on everyone involved by driving appropriately with consideration for all road users as well as wandering wildlife, and hopefully, just maybe, irrespective of the accident, you'll have been prepared and the outcome is one that you and everyone else walks away from saying "wow, that could've been far worse" ...

Fingers crossed, those "accidents" haven't found me for a long time (over 20 years since I've had one) and I do about 25000-30000 on the road every year ... that doesn't mean I'm good, I'm simply a little more prepared and pre cautious regarding the vehicle I drive, how I've set it up for my personal wants, and subsequently how that setup affects its (and my) ability.

I've been picked up for no mudflaps (now have them), non compliant steering wheel (not a sports wheel or anything like that, but still not compliant and I accept that), but have a lift, have mud tyres, have lockers and other assorted goodies that make the truck a weapon off road - and that is all mod plated/engineer certified and as such have NEVER had a problem.

If you run 35's - why? If you run a 6" lift - why? Unless you're competing I don't get it - a good driver in an average setup truck will go further EVERY TIME over a poor driver in a monster truck ... and unfortunately, most (yes, I'm using a wide brush but don't mean to categorise every person) people in monster trucks do it for two primary reasons - 1. It just looks good, and 2. I'm not good enough at the wheel and wish to compensate for it ...

More than happy to set up a challenge to prove the theory - I'll go in it, but more
Importantly, I'll get someone like
Hekarewe or Ben-e-boy or NissanNewby behind the wheel of a standard truck, and my money is on them getting further than you ... they are awesome wheel workers, and having watched them, I feel embarrassed at my lack of capability when I thought I was a star - and 2 of those 3 blokes are 15 years younger than me (and I'm not 40 yet).

Ahhhhh ... that was an effort ... lmao ... thumbs are worn to stumps as I typed this on tapatalk on my iPhone!!! Lots of swearing at the spellchecker and my missus thinks I'm a mental case who yells at inanimate objects like phones!!!! LMFAO!!

EDIT: just spoke with the missus who's the national sales manager of a major suspension outlet, and the fact of the matte is two fold:

1. If cars were built for safety and not simply by the cheapest bidder using the cheapest components whilst still meeting ADR compliance, we'd be paying twice as much for them.

2. In reference to point 1, this is fact - there are 4 known variants currently available that are sold in Australia where the manufacturers suspension specs are nowhere near the safety and performance level of aftermarket kits available - these are the D40, Hilux, BT50 (Ford Ranger is the same and doesn't count as a different variant for my argument) and the Colorado. There are more, but after testing, all 4 have been proven to have increased braking and cornering and load capacity performance with the removal of the OME setup and replacement with another kit (name withheld, but PM me if you want it). This again, is absolute fact, so yes, SOME vehicles are enhanced and are absolutely safer with aftermarket parts applied ... not all, but I'm sort of sitting on both sides of this discussion - proving points for both sides of the debate ...

Holy empty bpurboun cans,my god bet a few were drunk written that .....

Well said and about somes it up in , as few (paragraphs,pages,books) words .....

[MQ MAD]

Can't agree with this,my car handles better now with lifted after market springs than it ever did with original set up ( and it is a 4inch lift car was only 36000 km old when I bought it) you can make your v8 commodore or falcon pump out a lot more power than standard but I don't see them being defected for not upgrading brakes or suspension or fitting of appropriate tyres plus the tyres I that came with the car were brand new maxxis bravos which were down rite dangerous in the wet were legal but my km2's which are much better in all conditions are also " illegal" guess my point is just because it's " illegal" doesn't mean it's unsafe , and just because someone can write out a ticket doesn't mean they know what the fu#k they are on about. My 2 bobs worth.

Most muppets who trick their late model cars ,usually run better tyres, better brakes, but the top shelf commo or falcoon come with all the goodies anyway
It doesnt take too much to get a new turbo falcon pulling an 11 second 1/4 , but the things still stop pritty quick none the less...

The wombats who issue these defect notices, wether thats the cops, dot,mobile transport or on the spot road worthy dont need to know (be good if they know more than whats in a badge),if in doubt they nail ya,its up to you as the owner to prove other wise, sad but true
Blokes are getting napped for exhaust too loud, yet theres no meter to record the noise at the time,the old if in doubt ,defect it
Sad part is,its the easy targets,or the target for the month,one month every 4by will be pulled over for inspections,or trucks,or whatever
My old truck was pulled over because one month was operation "Lets annoy truck drivers month"
Its all the POS on the road , wether thats 4bies, commo, doof doof cars ,just general unsafe rubbish that are making it harder for the average petrol head driving a car thats safe
While the pollies cant run a chook raffle, the motorist will get napped , someones gotta pay for their retirement .....

[the evil twin]

Sorry guys still waiting for an example of an "illegal" mod in itself that makes the vehicle safer.

Whilst I agree with a lot of the content in the posts (esp most of Big Rig's) here is the issue in regard to large lifts.
Fact - the C of G of the sprung weight is now considerable higher having been raised by the lift and the (usually) increased tyre dia.
Fact - the track is still the same or similar so the vehicle is less stable horizontally unless the track is increased usually wider offset rim
Fact - increasing the track with larger offset rims greatly increases the strain on wheel bearings, steering and suspension components as the plane of rotation of the wheel is moved further and further away leading to premature and possibly catastrophic failures in extreme cases. The further the plane is away from the mounting axis (in our case thru the swivel bearings) the higher the effort required to "steer"

Totally agree that a larger lift with wider track can be engineered safely and improve handling BUT it involves huge $ as the springs, shocks, anti sway geometry, rims, mounting components, steering geometry, alignment, brake discs, pad material etc etc must all be modified or strengthened as well.

Hands up everyone who has had the brake proportioning valve checked/adjusted correctly after a lift (any lift even 2 inch) or major suspension work which greatly changes teh braking effort front to back?

The underlying purpose of the defect system (when applied correctly and without bias) is to ensure that Mod's have been done safely and there is no way that can be done on the side of the road.

Oh, and Yes, my truck is illegal so not having a go at anyone. What I am saying is that something that perhaps improves one area may be detrimental to stability or increase brake fade or whatever

All I am getting at is that probably 90% or more of the "Illegal" mods out there on the road are dangerous and/or under-engineered usually because of $. Who on here hasn't done a mod or two and then driven the truck while waiting for the Cash Gods to fill up the Bank Balance so you can do "the rest".

[89gqpatrol4x4]

I must clarify here, I said SOME mods made the car safer than factory and was not directly talking about 4x4s, sory for the missunderstanding. As on owner of a "hoon Car" I am use to the criticisum about mods to cars however I have spent big bucks on suspension and brake upgrades which in my opinion makes the car 10 times safer than factory, yet as I am a builder not a mechanic, engineer or physist can't give examples with proper backing just my uneducated opinion.

[89gqpatrol4x4]

see can't even spell! LMOA physicist

[growler2058]

see can't even spell! LMOA physicist

What's LMOA hahahahahahahahaa
It's ok
I'm a builder also


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?z5z1se
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[taslucas]

I must clarify here, I said SOME mods made the car safer than factory and was not directly talking about 4x4s, sory for the missunderstanding. As on owner of a "hoon Car" I am use to the criticisum about mods to cars however I have spent big bucks on suspension and brake upgrades which in my opinion makes the car 10 times safer than factory, yet as I am a builder not a mechanic, engineer or physist can't give examples with proper backing just my uneducated opinion.

I suppose as a builder you could appreciate the reason plans have to be submitted and rules adhered to when building a house. Also the are certain aspects of building that can only legally be done by an authorised contractor. There has been comprehensive development year after year to set standards. They dont let anyone knock up a bit of a renovation without approved plans even if its built "stronger" or "better" than the minimal requirements of the law.... Same goes with vehicle modifications.

[growler2058]

They dont let anyone knock up a bit of a renovation without approved plans even if its built "stronger" or "better" than the minimal requirements of the law.... Same goes with vehicle modifications.

Don't come round my house then ;-)




---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?evcicb
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[taslucas]

Don't come round my house then ;-)



Fine! I wont! lmao!

[growler2058]

FINE!!!!


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?lma4tf
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[Bob]

We have Laws for all sections of our Lives and these Laws have been developed to ensure that Society can exist in a civilised manner and also safely.

I dont agree with all of these Laws but I obey them because it makes for a orderly World.

If you wish to change the Laws for Vehicle modifications lobby for these changes but just dont disobey the Laws as that is anarchy.

Also I dont like the crtiisism of our Police and transport Officials as they have a job to do and in the main most of them are decent People.

If you dont obey theses Laws then suffer the consequences without complaining about it.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Well said Bob, except for that anarchy part, I like anarchy *L*

[Richo460]

Arent you the one that tells people that illegal lifts are fine and noone ever gets caught ???
ALL the mod laws you can or cant do are on the QLD DOT website
4 " lift never ever or ever will be legal, no mud flaps at rear not legal ,and your running no rear bar, thats a safety issue,then throw in 35 " tyres that arent legal either
I dont feel sorry for anyone who flaunts with the rules,gee the rules are the most common thing talked about ....

Get no sympathy vote from me .....

Yeah ok i wasn' after sympathy, just thought i would share my story.
For starters i had fabricated a rear bard and was about to fit it and its all done now with new mud flaps.
As for the lift, well he never said 4 inches was illegal, he said that it could only be one third less or more than the standard distance between bump stops.
I am not pissed at the inspectors for doing thier job. They had alot of good info to give me and i asked a ridiculous amount of questions. I am not just some baffoon with a shitbox 4x4. I have this thing set up to go the places i want to go. The point was made that there are so many regulations that change frequently it is hard for everyday people to know the laws. They are different in every state.
The inspector even gave me the phone number of the office for me to call to discuss any further questions i had in relation to vehicle mods.
This whole thing has prompted me to make some changes i had been thinking about anyway, just a bit sooner than i was thinking.
I only run 33" muds and they were not mentioned. I want to run 35's to get more diff clearance but am going to lower the lift.


I honestly belive that alot of the regulations in this country are way over the top, not only in motoring but in construction, mining etc. In america you can have ridiculous mods to cars, you can carry a hand gun in public, they have the same litigation problem this country has, its just that we now have laws and regulations for everything and they tax everything else. Its hard to keep up with.

I am a motoring enthuasist and have several cars that may be beyond the legal limits imposed by the DOT (Department of Transport). High powered muscle cars and modified 4x4's which are both targeted and branded as hoons. I also have owned and read the QLD regs. Alot is determined by the authorised engineer and can be blue plated but there are alot of very big grey areas. I intend to make alot of contact with the DOT to get my ducks in a row and get a good knowledge of the regulations.

On another note RACQ said they wouldn't insure me because the value of the accessories fitted to the GQ were more that one third of the value of the vehicle. Not sure why that matters cause they would only pay out they vehicle value and no extra. God these corporations drive me mad.

[growler2058]

Well ya got a sympathy vote from me ;-)


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?a2gubx
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, what's that freakin noise?!

[hekarewe]

got told about this thread yesterday and so decided to take a quick look at it. from what i was told and from reading some of the comments here i think i have got the gist of things,,, no i have better things to do then read every last word written. Big Rig i knew you could talk under water with mouth full marble by didnt know you could the same with your fingers LOL by the way thanks for the vote of confidnece.

now to my thoughts on this!

from my past experence with 4wds, and 4wders i have found there 2 types those that know what they are doing and what they want fom their rigs, and what i call the possers!!! over the last 13 years i have had two 4wds the origanal Hekarewe an old 88 model pajero which was a freak!!! and my current 03 patrol. as everyone knows there is not a lot you can do to modify a vehicle with idependent suspention but (and the photos i have posted and Morton will testify) that old paj could make a lot of heavily modified trucks look prittty ordinary! all it had in it lift was what i could get out of the torsion bars and 31 inch muddies. i had that old girl for way to many years and it took alot for me to part with it because i knew it like the back of my hand. ( i still miss it from time to time on track was just to much fun).

now the patrol i own was brought completly standard! i had as people should thought long and hard about what i wanted to replace the old paj with and what i was going to use it for most. so I spoke to people who i believed to be experts and came up with the patrol and did the same again before starting to do the mods. the resault is an awsome truck that i can throw at just about any track i like does not sag when the camper is on it and handlies like demoned on road. i too have be pulled over up here in sunny queensland because "your suspention is set to high driver" at which piont i present the paper work out of the glove box from OME and drove of ticketless. this was with a 50mm lift!!!

majority of the adr laws ar aimed at the hoons! but because just targeting the hoons with these laws the powers to be would comitting veilification, ILLEAGLE! so every one must be complient. soooo and the point is this if you are responsable and modify you vehicle any vehicle do it with due considoration as to what you are going to use it for and do it to the letter of the law you will have hassle free motoring. modify your vehicle so that "it looks of the chain dude" with out considoration to practicality or legality then yes your going to end up getting some unwanted attention of the powers to be and you have no one else to blame but yourselves end of story.

more and more driving around town i see 4wds and other vehicles that have be modified by some bone head in their back yard or by some money grubbing twit who doesnt care as long as he gets top dollar cruising arouind in vehicles that are neither safe or practicle but hey they look "cool dude" but then bleat on tv and in paper that they are unfairly targeted by the law enforces, give me a break! you chose to do the mods then take responsability for them they are you actions.

when talking mods there is an old saying which is very apt for this "look before you leep" guys do yourselves a favor take the time to go out seek the experts advice there is some of good info in the forum here but and this is not to detract from the forum be careful who you take notice of on here. "a little knowledge is more dangerous then none at all" seek out the experts do your reseach and make at point to be informed!

[89gqpatrol4x4]

I suppose as a builder you could appreciate the reason plans have to be submitted and rules adhered to when building a house. Also the are certain aspects of building that can only legally be done by an authorised contractor. There has been comprehensive development year after year to set standards. They dont let anyone knock up a bit of a renovation without approved plans even if its built "stronger" or "better" than the minimal requirements of the law.... Same goes with vehicle modifications.

Exactly! All I am saying is that I think some "illegal mods" are ridiculous. When carried out by someone qualified and done properly they are perfectly safe.

[threedogs]

In the states you can buy a 22"lift kit for a F250 off the shelf, crazy hey

[Richo460]

after the 4x4ing i did yesterday i am really needing to find out how i can get my lift engineered as there is no way i can do the driving i do on a standard 2" lift. I am gonna chase it up and see what feedback i get.

[Mojo01]

why not just pay the extra $500-600 on top of the cost of the lift to get it plated as a LEGAL 4 inch lift, if you are going to spend 4k$ on lift an extra few bucks to make it legal is nothing. I know that you can do this in TAS,SA, NSW, NT, WA, VIC and the ACT. I know QLD is a bit behind the rest of AUS but not that far behind. Its no different to doing a GVM upgrade which all the mining companys do, It cost a mate of mine here in SA $550 he now has an extra plate under the bonnet on his GU and the cops cant do shit, BUT.. and I say BUT because he had to do a few more things in order to get the engy to sign off on it. he had to run all new rear end links, plate the rear spring mount towers, the front end had after market arms ( the alloy ones for superior engineering) as drop boxes are not allowed, plus all the normal shite, panards etc. he is however only allowed to run 33's as that is what he stated he wanted to run.

[MudSlut]

Here in TAS I have a GQ with 8" of lift and 35's. Only been pulled over twice since I got it six months ago and both times were for light orientated problems and was given a self clearing defect. Cops walked around the GQ and gave it a good looking over. I know it doesn't handle anywhere as good as it should and is dangerous at high speeds, this is why I drive slow and take my time. It only ever gets used for driving off road, doesn't get hooned around in or go for un needed drives. I don't believe lift and big wheels are a sign of a poor driver, all the ruts around where I live I still drag diff with the 35's on and still catch the front and rear climbing out of holes ect. It goes places that a lot of the other smaller rigs fail at, I don't think I would enjoy off roading as much if I had to downsize my GQ and continue driving the tracks I drive.

[nissannewby]

Apart from the tyre size and cost portals and 37-40's would be a good way to go as far as i know the portals have been adr approved.