Don't let the government ban 4WDing

[Roady]

Just got an email from 4WD Action saying that the government is trying to ban 4WDing, but that is not realy the case. It seems that they are trying to stop vehicle height and suspension mods.
Check it out here http://www.4wdaction.com.au/news/43106-don%E2%80%99t-let-government-ban-4wding
There is a letter to copy and a link to send the letter to. I forward the letter to help stop eroding our rights

[NissanGQ4.2]

well in a way the are baning 4wdriving.... if you cant lift your 4wd you wont be do much 4wding. i cant see a problem esp if all mods are engineered, which they are currently meant 2 be in nsw.

[Finly Owner]

Yeah , but what the problem is that there is a lot of Lge family vehicles (4WD) being used on road as purely a status symbol/ tax write off/ safety capsule(incorrect anyway or otherwise known as [ don't try it, I'm bigger than you])/ or weekend horse float puller(which is legally needed now) and the authorities are using test crashes to prove that these higher vehicles will cause horrific injuries as they hit normal cars higherup. So therefore the more you rise your 4WD the more dangerous it is in a collision, whether engineered or not.

So what we need to do is somehow prove that responsible 4WD users acknowledge the higher risks and therefore take responsibility in driving by being defensive not offensive, and maybe taking time out to join a club that offers handling courses.

We also need to get some MP's on our side and get an educational advertisement campaign happening to make other motorist aware of the braking distance and turning room that weighty 4WD need. And educate them to not take braking space.

This is not likely to happen as it never been done for trucks!

But the pen pushers will make out our vehicles are the unneede villians.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Yeah , but what the problem is that there is a lot of Lge family vehicles (4WD) being used on road as purely a status symbol/ tax write off/ safety capsule(incorrect anyway or otherwise known as [ don't try it, I'm bigger than you])/ or weekend horse float puller(which is legally needed now) and the authorities are using test crashes to prove that these higher vehicles will cause horrific injuries as they hit normal cars higherup. So therefore the more you rise your 4WD the more dangerous it is in a collision, whether engineered or not.

So what we need to do is somehow prove that responsible 4WD users acknowledge the higher risks and therefore take responsibility in driving by being defensive not offensive, and maybe taking time out to join a club that offers handling courses.

We also need to get some MP's on our side and get an educational advertisement campaign happening to make other motorist aware of the braking distance and turning room that weighty 4WD need. And educate them to not take braking space.

This is not likely to happen as it never been done for trucks!

But the pen pushers will make out our vehicles are the unneede villians.

why is it a problem????, comes down to personal choice of what a person wants to drive.
"authorities are using test crashes to prove that these higher vehicles will cause horrific injuries as they hit normal cars higherup" Trucks are bigger than buses, buses are bigger than 4wdrives, 4drives are bigger than cars, cars are bigger than motor bikes, motor bikes are bigger than push bikes, push bike are bigger than most pedestrians......where does it stop, in a accident someone is likely to be injured or killed... do we ban them all and walk????? mind you that would probable kill an unhealthy person so lets ban that too...

that's just my 2 cents worth on this topic *L*

[Finly Owner]

Hmmmm glad to see we think alike. I was just pointing out what we are up against.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Hmmmm glad to see we think alike. I was just pointing out what we are up against.
Up against people that really dont know what they are talking about unfortunately. Maybe they should spend more of there......time.......money......effort on building better road *LMAO*

[Maxhead]

I like how the article says "Due to a huge outcry from the readers of 4WD Action, Mr Daly had no choice other than to back down and put VSI 50 on hold."
Where the readers of 4WD Action are a tiny percentage of 4wdrivers .

Just typical a DHead pen pusher behind a desk who's seen a couple irrelevant statistics and thinks he's gonna be a hero.

[Bigrig]

I'll go 4 cents worth, just to make sure i've paid my dues on my coming comments - agreed with everyone above about the ridiculous regulations that some politicians try to enact (Paul Keating is the worst of them - he wants them banned all together - on and off road!!!) - is this really all politicians have to do with their time?? Can someone please tell me the name of the Minister for 4WD Recreational Activities .... please .... oh that's right, there isn't one, so instead the clown running the areas that 4wd'ers frequent (forestry, beach, bush) is the one in charge of all things 'recreational' and just so happens that he is a tree hugging greenie (who probably drives a 6 cyclinder government commodore, has a big house with virtually no 'energy saving' devices other than what's printed on the pretty label when he bought it, AND who spends 99% of his time inside an office and/or at caucus meetings and/or on a plane and/or in meetings with logging companies and/or using up the vast majority of his flexi time at every given opportunity) ... I'm no pumpkin head, but I am an amatuer 4wd'er compared to countless others out there, and I spend far less time off the bitumen than thousands who travel this magnificant country (it is magnificant - I've done a lot of it), HOWEVER, the time that I do spend off the road to get away from it all is of priceless value to myself and my family, and the lengths I go to (again, as per heaps of others) to ensure I don't use anything but the actual tracks, clean up after ourselves, be as environmentally conscious as possible and obey general codes of conduct of whatever area I am in far exceeds any effort that the government say they put into planning this sh#t ... closing comment - I would lay my next pay packet on this: It will get to a point of whether 4wd areas should be closed permanently and modifications can't be made, and only private properties can let people 4wd etc, and I nearly guarantee that the government will opt instead for a 'certificate' or 'registration' program that allows people to use these areas, whilst allowing them to rake in the cash ... it's nothing to do with the environment, it's all dollars and cents ... look at the money they make now off permits for selected areas ... and the funny thing is, as long as it's reasonable, I'd be happy to pay it.

As per most things, we are only having this conversation due to the actions of the minority ... most, if not all 4wd'ers I see out in the bush are good people, having fun at no-one's expense other than their own (i.e. the modification and repair bills!!! LOL).

[Finly Owner]

Just to add more anger to the subject;

Private properties who give permission to us to traverse their land are becoming fewer. Due to fear of liability law suites. Yes, that's right, even the bushies are getting scared of being sued by those who travel on their land and damage their vehicle or self, due to lack of up keep of private track.

[MADM4N]

its a huge load of BS... I pay my rego on time, most of the time early... I think its time they looked into spending some of the revenue thats raised by fixed and mobile cameras along with the excise tax that was put on fuel many years ago on fixing the roads... I have NEVER had an accident or been involved in one and have paid full comp insurance every year for the last 11 yrs... shouldn't that count for something??? VSI 50 is just another way the government can dictate to the people that vote them in on how to live their lives... I thought i voted for a governing body not a dictatorship... i have sent my piece to the roads minister via email... but my biggest concern is how in the world they gunna eradicate modded 4wds???

[Bigrig]

Here here Madm4n, you like most of us, do the right thing the vast majority of the time - where do they get these supposed stats against 4wd's from anyway? - yes I know, insurance claims. I personally would like to see the statistics regarding 4wd accidents relevant to normal car accidents, and most certainly compared to motorcycle accidents (anyone seen the sign lately that "motorcycle riders are 38 times more likely to have a serious accident than a car" - no BS, that is the one doing the rounds, and that IS the number they use). What I'd like to see most is a breakdown of the number of 4wd related 'incidents' that involve 4wd's that are rarely (if ever) used off-road. My point being, the number is certainly exacerbated by the number of mums out there using the bigger vehicles as a kiddie carrier (based on number of seats, and/or perception of safety) and being involved in smaller accidents, pedestrian knock overs, etc, which would have no doubt bumped the number up ... more analysis is needed along with a whole lot of common sense ... hopefully common sense is what will prevail.

[MADM4N]

What about this BS that Bulbars kill.... Just another ploy to make the buck stop with us... Unfortunately i'm sick of being a scape goat for the governments empty promises... We need to stand united and fight this ridiculas policy for being passed by Government... There is nothing wrong with the way my 4wd drives, stops, corners or handles... AB can we come to some plan to send an email patition to the government using the forum's name????

[Chops]

We need to stand united and fight this ridiculas policy for being passed by Government...

Unless you get the majority of the 4WD population behind it, unfortunately the Government wont give a stuff.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Here here Madm4n, you like most of us, do the right thing the vast majority of the time - where do they get these supposed stats against 4wd's from anyway? - yes I know, insurance claims. I personally would like to see the statistics regarding 4wd accidents relevant to normal car accidents, and most certainly compared to motorcycle accidents (anyone seen the sign lately that "motorcycle riders are 38 times more likely to have a serious accident than a car" - no BS, that is the one doing the rounds, and that IS the number they use). What I'd like to see most is a breakdown of the number of 4wd related 'incidents' that involve 4wd's that are rarely (if ever) used off-road. My point being, the number is certainly exacerbated by the number of mums out there using the bigger vehicles as a kiddie carrier (based on number of seats, and/or perception of safety) and being involved in smaller accidents, pedestrian knock overs, etc, which would have no doubt bumped the number up ... more analysis is needed along with a whole lot of common sense ... hopefully common sense is what will prevail.

About 6months ago i lived across the road from a guy that worked for the RTA, he said that there was no statistics and it was all a load of bs been pushed by a pedestrian safety committee....

[NissanGQ4.2]

Unless you get the majority of the 4WD population behind it, unfortunately the Government wont give a stuff.

And even then they wont give a stuff

[patch697]

This is not the first time this subject has come up & the fact it has returned again means its more than likely going to come up time after time & one day may even come to pass but I think we all wish that day never comes.

[NissanGQ4.2]

This is not the first time this subject has come up & the fact it has returned again means its more than likely going to come up time after time & one day may even come to pass but I think we all wish that day never comes.
very true, not the first, wont be the last and one day they will win unfortunately.

[Bigrig]

About 6months ago i lived across the road from a guy that worked for the RTA, he said that there was no statistics and it was all a load of bs been pushed by a pedestrian safety committee....

That sounds about right ... typical ...

[razzerback]

The Australian government WILL loose alot of money from out of this, if it does get passed (hope it never does), We pay tax on all our mods, plus we keep Australian jobs going with our mods. The aftermarket sales will drop very quickly, did they think of that... NO. They will loose alot of revenue by doing this and alot of companies will have to close there doors, which will mean more unemployment.
Plus in reguards to the "statistics" they are using, do people relise that those All Wheel Drive cars come under that heading of '4wd', that includes those wrx, impreza etc rice burners. It is unfair as to why REAL 4WD'S are mixed in with them. We dont drag race or drive dangerously, but we are just a big target for them. Just wait, soon we will have to ask the government if we can wipe our butts

[NissanGQ4.2]

Just wait, soon we will have to ask the government if we can wipe our butts,
And if they say yes we will have to pay tax on it *L*

[Chops]

and alot of companies will have to close there doors, which will mean more unemployment.

I don't think that will happen, but I understand what you mean.

[Finly Owner]

I am reading a book @ the moment, "Dogs and Lemons" it's about cars in general written in NZ. It has a fantastic Introduction covering trends of users, motor manufacturers, transport authorities, road planning bodies, other motoring influence producers(eg oil co.s etc), taxes, and bodies protesting motoring problems, government bodies, advertising, and motorists mind sets.

And the stand out fact that sticks with me, is, we, as the driver believe we have the right to buy and use when and where we like. If anyone challenges our right to drive, modify, own our vehicle we defend it by ridiculing their opposition without giving thought to what they say and offering a level headed factual defense.

Those bringing issues to light can only see their side, just as we see ours. If we methodically prove the claims insignificant without ridicule, we will be seen as the more tolerant debating consumer group and will have a chance of getting backing in our plight.

eg. In england when horse were still being used as cars were introduced. Brake were not very efficent if fitted at all. So peolpe were hurt often by non stopping cars. With them being new, there was an out cry to rid the streets of the new killer cars.
But 1000's were ending up sick and dying from disease and bacteria caused from horse waste piled in the streets in which peopled walked through mixed with horse urine and rain. Not to mention the dead rotting carcasus of horses that died and left lying in the streets for up to a week, bring ing in flies in the masses. And horses dropped daily due to bad keeping. All this unhealthy system was apparently better than a few accidents with automobiles.

But because a new threat was present and the other was just life, you pick on the minority. This has continued to happen uptil now, and will continue years to come.

We must always fight back with counter acting facts, not just the feeling of injustice.

This is just how I see it. And I mean to point no fingers and step on no toes.
So please read as an insight, not an insult.
And yes, having our vehicles means freedom to most of us! But, freedom is limited by the laws we live with.
UNFORTUNATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chops]

You get time to read?

I believe we can make a stand IF more than a few hundred people stand up and say no. As I see it, the majority of the population are too lazy to unite, therefore there is no chance of anything changing.
An advocate in each state, gathering a few thousand people each, and having the media there at the same time, would no doubt have enough of an effect to show our concerns with the idiots behind it.

[JimboGQ]

I agree with the alot that was said above. The problem with any politician is he who yells the loudest is heard and the silent majority is silent, it doesn't matter to them what the true facts are. If we beleive that this is something we need to fight for we need to be heard, LOUD. My 2c worth