Is 4wding considered a sport?

[AB]

Do you consider 4wding a sport?

Just doing some research on something and would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Would people who are not 4wders consider it a sport????

What classifies something to be considered a sport??

[TimE]

My 4WD Club's Constitution calls it a sport. Thus the Club is a sporting Club and does not need to pay tax on income it receives from fund raising activities. Club members do actively participate in 4wd competitions.

This link (http://www.ato.gov.au/content/downloads/nfp00267713nat73773.pdf)maybe of help if your question relates to Tax Issues

[White Elephant]

Absolutely. And my question is, why isn't it in the Olympics? :)

[wildgu6]

For someone like myself I would class it as a hobby, even though we can be very competitive lol, but as Tim said for clubs with financial gain/support and competition drivers Yes I think it would be classed as a sport.


Yappa Tappa Doo

[Silver]

not the way I do it :-)

But once there is an element of competition, I guess so.

Is formula 1 a sport? Bathurst?

[Bigrig]

I'd consider it a sport ..

Car - check
Driver - check
Tracks - check
Co driver - check
Vehicle meets requirements - check

Sounds like most "motor sports" to me ...

[growler2058]

Dunno but I was a good sport traipsing through the mud to put a snatch on fixers rig wen he got stuck. Does that count? Hahahhahahaha
And I was a good sport laughing I mean helping nisshead get to bed at Loveday hahahahaha


Tapp tillya Crap

[Winnie]

Just the same as F1 or the V8s are

Tappa tappa

[BillsGU]

AB - Our club went through this exercise some years ago, and despite what a club's constitution states, the final call is with the ATO. If you look at the reference quoted in #2 above you will find that is DOES NOT state that 4 Wheel Driving is a sport.

We ended up putting a submission to the ATO outlining our club's situation (as far as competition and such was concerned) and we received a special ruling to get a tax exemption.

If you think otherwise you are dreaming and your club has the potential to be audited and made to pay back taxes.

This may open a can of worms - but they are the cold hard facts.

[aussiemale]

Broad question AB lol. Military/rangers/police may call it a bonus to the job, I personally think it's an escape from the wife LOL.
Don't personally look at it as a sport, just an awesome day out with mates that ends with brews and barbies.

[TimE]

AB - Our club went through this exercise some years ago, and despite what a club's constitution states, the final call is with the ATO. If you look at the reference quoted in #2 above you will find that is DOES NOT state that 4 Wheel Driving is a sport.

We ended up putting a submission to the ATO outlining our club's situation (as far as competition and such was concerned) and we received a special ruling to get a tax exemption.

If you think otherwise you are dreaming and your club has the potential to be audited and made to pay back taxes.

This may open a can of worms - but they are the cold hard facts.

Yep my Club went through the ATO ruling stuff a fair few years ago as well, and is a "sporting" club for taxation purposes.

Although the ATO document in the link at #2 above does not say competitive 4WDing is a sport, it doesn't say it isn't a sport either. But as you say it may well be worth the effort of seeking a ruling from the ATO if a clubs income could otherwise be taxable.

[Maxhead]

Not sure if its a sport, for me its more of a necessity or a hobby to get to places you need to or want to visit/see.
Comps are more of a sport but not general 4wding....

[Bloodyaussie]

It's a hobby for me... once it becomes a sport I will get too competative and then it will be all consuming then it wont be fun anymore !!!!!

I retired from Motorcycle racing in 2008 after winning the Victorian titles in my class as it was all or nothing and it was no longer fun if I did not come first......... retired on top though, he he !!!!

[BillsGU]

An example of how "weird" the tax laws are:

If your 4WD club sells raffel tickets, drinks and hot dogs at a meeting, then those that are sold to paid up members do not attract tax. If you sell these items to visitors or any non financial members - you are liable to pay tax on the goods and services sold.

Crazy - but that was the advice given to our club by accountants.

[Tank]

For me 4WD is 1, a neccesity for work, travel in winter to get to where I or my family need to go, 2 a fun thing to do with friends and a good way to get away, 3 a sport when I do (very seldem) enter a comp

[NissanGQ4.2]

An example of how "weird" the tax laws are:

If your 4WD club sells raffel tickets, drinks and hot dogs at a meeting, then those that are sold to paid up members do not attract tax. If you sell these items to visitors or any non financial members - you are liable to pay tax on the goods and services sold.

Crazy - but that was the advice given to our club by accountants.

So what your saying is members buy drinks and food then "GIVE" them to visitors.......................................... .........and nobody see's money exchange hands between visitors and club members *LMAO*

CRAZY is not the word for it.

[taslucas]

As said above, other examples of motor sports like F1, Touring cars, Rally driving etc are considered sports. I think nearly everything that you can compete in is considered a sport......Chess, fishing, jelly wrestling,...........lol

EDIT: to compete makes it a sport

[nissannewby]

Its the same as any motorised vehicle as a sport we all do it as a "hobby" drive our cars to work or ride our bikes to work or on weekends we play in the bush on the weekends in our 4wds but then can also compete same as other vehicles (cars, motorbikes etc) and they are a sport so to me 4wding is a sport :)

[Silver]

An example of how "weird" the tax laws are:

If your 4WD club sells raffel tickets, drinks and hot dogs at a meeting, then those that are sold to paid up members do not attract tax. If you sell these items to visitors or any non financial members - you are liable to pay tax on the goods and services sold.

Crazy - but that was the advice given to our club by accountants.

The principal of mutuality at work. Once described by a judge something along the lines of the taxation system attempting to deal with the peculiar drinking habits of Englishmen. Same idea applies in co-ops etc. Here are some words from the ATO http://www.ato.gov.au/nonprofit/content.aspx?menuid=0&doc=/content/00246133.htm&page=12

[BillsGU]

You can all "think" what ever you like. I spent months some time back trying to sort this out. I spoke to CEOs of many NFP sporting clubs, CEOs of other NFP organisations, the National Sports Council, Presidents of numerous 4WD Clubs and many other organisations, trying to make sense of all this. I even spoke to the ATO (who were very helpful and generous with their information). All these people were very helpful. The "end result" I did get to was that the Sports Council decrees what constitutes a sport, and to get your "sport" recognised you need to make a submission (the forms are readilly available on their web site) and make your case. The only hitch was, the case had to be made by a representative body (usually a state or national association). I contacted the state body that our club was affilliated to (and of course paid fees to) and I contacted 4WD Australia. While ALL these other people (including the ATO) were more than helful, I am still waiting for a reply from any 4WD representative body (remember this was a number of years ago). That is why our club went out on our own - put forward a case to the ATO - and received a determination.

Hobbies are not neccessarily a sport, LOTS of car club activities are NOT considered to be a sport. You may "think" they are - but unfortunately - they are not sports that are recognised out of hand for taxation purposes. There are many other references and bits of information on the ATO web site. I suggest you have a look at them.

Again - "believe" what you like, but I have a stack of paperwork and emails and records of conversation that backs up what I have said.

[Finly Owner]

Ok, so Iam answering purely at the idea of driving in a group not "club" like! Some would class their style as sport ie Rock climbing, Hill Climbing, Mud Running Taming the Wild tracks.

But, some would call it liesure, Camping in more difficult locations, Fishing/Hunting in those slighty more isolated spots.

Others would call it touring our great country anywhere bar the blacktop.

But if they are like I soon will be, Just call it the ABILITY!








Tim

[NissanGQ4.2]

So wouldn't the ATO classify four wheel driving as a sport???

"Sports or activities that involve using equipment to achieve
mobility – canoeing; cycling; dragon boat racing; drag racing;
go‑kart racing; hang‑gliding; kayaking; motor‑car racing (circuit,
rally); motor cross; motorcycle racing; mountain bicycle riding;
rowing; yachting."

[Finly Owner]

So wouldn't the ATO classify four wheel driving as a sport???

"Sports or activities that involve using equipment to achieve
mobility – canoeing; cycling; dragon boat racing; drag racing;
go‑kart racing; hang‑gliding; kayaking; motor‑car racing (circuit,
rally); motor cross; motorcycle racing; mountain bicycle riding;
rowing; yachting."But Sport can be an income, Just ask the Footballrs, cricketers,Race Drivers etc
etc etc etc.



Tim

[BillsGU]

Ok, so Iam answering purely at the idea of driving in a group not "club" like! Some would class their style as sport ie Rock climbing, Hill Climbing, Mud Running Taming the Wild tracks.

But, some would call it liesure, Camping in more difficult locations, Fishing/Hunting in those slighty more isolated spots.

Others would call it touring our great country anywhere bar the blacktop.

But if they are like I soon will be, Just call it the ABILITY!

Tim


Fine - as long as you don't sell anything that attracts tax. You can call yourself whatever you want. Its only when you collect monies that it becomes a problem.

[Silver]

I think there are two questions now running here.

AB originally asked something like did we see four wheel driving as a sport - well, that's asking for a personal opinion.

then somehow the question of what the ATO regards as a sport came in - and that is not a matter of personal opinion. There is case law and all kinds of not so exciting stuff about what is and is not a sport in that context.

[AB]

Interesting posts guys, thanks for the response!

Yeah I was mainly looking at personal views at this point but some great info here nonetheless.

[taslucas]

I think there are two questions now running here.

AB originally asked something like did we see four wheel driving as a sport - well, that's asking for a personal opinion.

then somehow the question of what the ATO regards as a sport came in - and that is not a matter of personal opinion. There is case law and all kinds of not so exciting stuff about what is and is not a sport in that context.

Couldnt agree more silver. Well put. Unless your trying to make money or run an organisation, who cares what the ATO think. If i go down to the park and kick a footy around, i call it playing a sport and im pretty sure the ATO couldnt care less!!

Heres another weird example: Competitive eating! lol thats called a sport!

[Dhuck]

I believe it is a motor sport as any other motor sport. We as individuals may not be able to afford the build up of a comp rig, but there are many that can and have. We just need to look at the amount of "Competitions" throughout Aus. I would love to enter my truck into some of the more serious comps, but money is the factor for the repairs.

So what is the difference between you daily driver/hobby truck and a comp vehicle? MONEY

[Jock]

Sport is competition. So it follows that if you are at the competitive end of 4x4 you call it a sport. If on the otherhand you camp and just 4x4 for the enjoyment then it's a hobby/pastime. That's my take on it anyway.

Cheers

[Bigrig]

Sport is competition. So it follows that if you are at the competitive end of 4x4 you call it a sport. If on the otherhand you camp and just 4x4 for the enjoyment then it's a hobby/pastime. That's my take on it anyway.

Cheers

I'd go along with that one!!

[rusty_nail]

IMO 4WDing is definately a sport. i feel that a sport is anything that involves a challenge but that does not necessarily mean competing against other people. i reckon that as long as their is a challenge involved even if just for pure enjoyment then it would be so. i love going out with some mates and stretching my capabilities behind the wheel, which the same could be said of things like people who run or cycle of any other of those individual "non-competitive' sports. sure there are competitions out there for each of those things, but the majority of people who do them do it because they enjoy doing it any that is all, not with the hopes of winning gold at the olympics, so the same could be said about 4WDing... for pure enjoyment and to PUSH the boundaries. thats my 2 cents

[jazza]

i rekon so, some of the rocky tracks i've been on give the body a bit of a work out bouncing and bobbing around so yeah why not make it officially a sport :)

[pearcey]

My4w driving has nothing to do with sport it is a leisurely past time as the mention of sport will make all insurance company's stop and take a hard look at your policy