Basic Air Compressor question.

[Cuppa]

Hey there folks,
I'm trying to decide what air compressor to buy. To be used mainly for inflating tyres, (& who knows possibly a diff lock in the future if it ever seems necessary). Length of time to inflate tyres is not so important, but it must be reliable & up to the job, don't want it letting me down in the middle of nowhere. I also want to run it through a circuit breaker board that I have, so want to keep the current draw below 30 amps. I'm looking at the ARB CKMA12 to mount under the bonnet.

The question I have is about being able to use it with an air gun also. At home I find an air gun is really useful for cleaning all sorts of stuff, but my home compressor has a large tank. What I'd like to know is whether an air tank would be required in addition to the CKMA12 to use an air gun & if so would ARB's 4 litre tank be worthwhile?

I have a feeling that I already know the answer is yes I'd need a tank, & no a 4 litre one is way too small to be useful for what I want. If having the ability to use an air gun is going to push up the cost too much, or be unable to fit it under the bonnet, I'll just stick with being able to re-inflate my tyres.

regards
Cuppa

[macca]

Not really basic Cuppa

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/store.php?cPath=49

We have the 3/4hp boss and a 9 ltr tank.

Took 2 1/2 minutes from 12 - 36psi on a 33" tyre.

We pumped up our son in laws then ours last Sunday and were all packed up while a mate had done 3 of his with a big red.

What I like about this compressor is a genuine 100% duty cycle and doesnt mind running up to 100psi all the time.

The 9 litre is not big enough to run power tools and the recovery is not fast enough.

We had an ARB Hi-flow tyre compressor with air bag assist suspension and lockers too, it didnt like being on a tank as it takes too long to reach pressure, it couldnt handle the duty cycle.

If you go air lockers I would consider running their smaller compressor for that job only. Run something else for tyres, dust gun etc.

Hope that is of some help, Macca

[nissannewby]

endless air setups are good for bulk air quickly and with a decent size air tank (at least 15-20L) there wouldnt be much it wouldnt do.

[Cuppa]

Hi Macca & nissanewby, thanks for your replies.

Endless air would be nice but trying to fit it under the bonnet with the 4.2 TDi would be pretty tight if it were possible, & not something I'd feel I could do myself, so I suspect that costs would be out of my ballpark when all I need is to be able to reinflate tyres once in a while.

Macca you are the 2nd person to recommend the 3/4hp Boss to me & it is very tempting seeings as it's available on ebay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/boss-air-compressor-PX-07-12-24-VOLT-4wd-4x4-2wd-tradesmen-mini-truck-air-bag-/251075466420?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a754394b4#ht_1905wt_1141) for just $60 more than ARB's CKMA12 which pushes a lot less air & has a 50% duty cycle. Can you comment on what, if anything I would need extra to what comes in the ebay sale if 1. I just wanted to use it to inflate tyres, & 2. if I wanted to be able to use it to operate air tools/gun. ie. If I got a tank to go with it what else would I need to connect it all together? It'd be good if I can work out what the all up cost will be before I commit to going down that path.

Since posting earlier I have realised that although my circuit breaker panel is rated at 100 amps in total, that there is nothing to stop me fitting a larger capacity single circuit breaker into it as I can just wire it separately to the rest of the breakers & thus not overload the total panel.

Any thoughts about why the ebay seller says the max current draw is 35amps but then also recommends a minimum of an 80amp fuse? What size fuse or circuit breaker do you have fitted with yours? The other person who recommended this compressor to me reckoned he had a 50 amp circuit breaker.

regards
Cuppa

[Woof]

Hey Cuppa, not much help here but I did notice that you edited your post and the reason given was "Removed stupid question"....................................mate there is NO such thing here.
Hang on I just remembered that I have an ARB under bonnet compressor to run the front locker, have not had any problems with it so far but it does take a while to re-inflate the 35"s.

PS how is Mrs Tea going mate, all good I hope

[macca]

Macca you are the 2nd person to recommend the 3/4hp Boss to me & it is very tempting seeings as it's available on ebay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/boss-air-compressor-PX-07-12-24-VOLT-4wd-4x4-2wd-tradesmen-mini-truck-air-bag-/251075466420?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a754394b4#ht_1905wt_1141) for just $60 more than ARB's CKMA12 which pushes a lot less air & has a 50% duty cycle. Can you comment on what, if anything I would need extra to what comes in the ebay sale if 1. I just wanted to use it to inflate tyres, & 2. if I wanted to be able to use it to operate air tools/gun. ie. If I got a tank to go with it what else would I need to connect it all together? It'd be good if I can work out what the all up cost will be before I commit to going down that path.

Since posting earlier I have realised that although my circuit breaker panel is rated at 100 amps in total, that there is nothing to stop me fitting a larger capacity single circuit breaker into it as I can just wire it separately to the rest of the breakers & thus not overload the total panel.

Any thoughts about why the ebay seller says the max current draw is 35amps but then also recommends a minimum of an 80amp fuse? What size fuse or circuit breaker do you have fitted with yours? The other person who recommended this compressor to me reckoned he had a 50 amp circuit breaker.

regards
Cuppa

Extra stuff would be a pressure switch and solonoid to control it. For tools a tank would be great, I fitted the P/Sw into the tank and the airline connector, also it is stood on 1 end and a water drain tap fitted. Of course the fittings and hose to connect it all togeather.

Mine has a 60 or 80 amp Fuse in line to the solonoid and is connected to the aux battery with large cable to reduce volt drop.

I would say a larger rating for the CB is for motor start (inrush) current.

I'll take a photo and a current test for you tomorrow arvo.

Those endless air are fitted under the drivers side of the motor there is a bit of space there. Was going to do that myself but it looked too hard and the boss works well.

[MudRunnerTD]

I have a big boss and a hi output ARB and can compare them side by side. I have been very disappointed with the big boss and it suffered badly with voltage drop. After the third attempt to sort this out I now have a positive wire as thick as my thumb in fine strand wire to supply to it and solve the voltage drop.

I would not buy one of these again. Without question the ARB hi output is a far better compressor. If you have not spent the money yet then I don't think you could go past the new double hi output ARB compressor as the best 12v compressor on the market. You can buy this in a box with a tank built in and it will do a 35 from 16 to 40psi in 2 minutes flat. I have used one and that's the timing I got. Great thing.

Cuppa you can be an attachment that allows you to use your spare tyre as a veesal for storage and you could certainly use an air gun off your spare tyre if you pump it to 45psi. You'd have room under your tray for a decent sized tank like a fire extinguisher or other decent size tank that would pump to 100psi no problem at all.

[Cuppa]

Hey Cuppa, not much help here but I did notice that you edited your post and the reason given was "Removed stupid question"....................................mate there is NO such thing here.

PS how is Mrs Tea going mate, all good I hope

MrsTea's good thanks. I'm afraid the question was stupid. I was asking Macca what the dimensions of his 9 litre tank were, & then realised they were given on the web site he'd given me the link to! :oops:

[Cuppa]

I'll take a photo and a current test for you tomorrow arvo.



That'd be good Macca, appreciate it. Ta.

Cuppa

[Cuppa]

I have a big boss and a hi output ARB and can compare them side by side. I have been very disappointed with the big boss and it suffered badly with voltage drop. After the third attempt to sort this out I now have a positive wire as thick as my thumb in fine strand wire to supply to it and solve the voltage drop.

I would not buy one of these again. Without question the ARB hi output is a far better compressor. If you have not spent the money yet then I don't think you could go past the new double hi output ARB compressor as the best 12v compressor on the market. You can buy this in a box with a tank built in and it will do a 35 from 16 to 40psi in 2 minutes flat. I have used one and that's the timing I got. Great thing.

Cuppa you can be an attachment that allows you to use your spare tyre as a veesal for storage and you could certainly use an air gun off your spare tyre if you pump it to 45psi. You'd have room under your tray for a decent sized tank like a fire extinguisher or other decent size tank that would pump to 100psi no problem at all.

Is it fair to criticize a compressor for voltage drop which occurs before the power reaches the compressor, or do you think that the Boss is just unreasonably power hungry?
I'll have another look at the ARB's - presumably you are refering to the twin CKMTA12 twin, they do look good, but the price is getting a bit beyond what I could convince MrsTea I should spend to inflate tyres at $800!
The CKMTA12 (onboard version - no tank) might be a bit more affordable - any links to the spare tyre attachment you refer to?

The Boss still sounds good to me, but the attraction of an ARB unit is that there are a lot more places that sell ARB stuff around Oz, which is of value if any warranty problems arise whilst on the road a long way from home.

regards
Cuppa

[NissanGQ4.2]

Sorry cuppa, can't help with your question, but your post bought back memories of a project I started and never finished *L*

This is my air tank, came off a MAN truck. was a freebie :):):)

16707

This pic was taken in 2003, it still hasn't been fitted to the trol and I still havn't bought myself an air compressor. This was one of those projects that just never happened..... I have a lot of those projects *L*

[nissannewby]

The endless air setups come with mounting kits and belts to run them they also actually fit quite easy into your engine bay. If i remember correctly they sit just above your current a/c compressor. A mate of mine had a boss with a 17L air tank which would run his rattle gun well enough to change wheels he never had an issue with the voltage other than it got hot when worked for a period of time as any compressor does. Last time i looked an endless air set up from the company who makes these was around the 800 mark but this thing would run a rattle straight off the pump no worries at all.

[Rip'n'Shred]

There is some great info on this web site. DIY endless air
http://www.grungle.com/endlessair.html

[Cuppa]

The endless air setups come with mounting kits and belts to run them they also actually fit quite easy into your engine bay. If i remember correctly they sit just above your current a/c compressor. A mate of mine had a boss with a 17L air tank which would run his rattle gun well enough to change wheels he never had an issue with the voltage other than it got hot when worked for a period of time as any compressor does. Last time i looked an endless air set up from the company who makes these was around the 800 mark but this thing would run a rattle straight off the pump no worries at all.

Well slap me up & down with a wet fish! (Far out - there's even a smilie for that! :fish: I'm gobsmacked!) MrsTea's parting words as she took herself off to bed a few minutes ago were "Well if you want to get an endless air setup get one"! What a woman, especially as she's the breadwinner! I certainly recognise the benefits of having an engine driven compressor rather than an electric one but still wonder if it's overkill for our purposes. If I were planning to be using it every week it'd be a no brainer, but the reality is it'll only get used when we're travelling to allow us to re-air tyres when leaving sand/tracks etc. And air tools as needed. (More tools to carry = more weight :-( ). If I can convince myself that it'll make a good (& portable) replacement for my aging & worn home compressor it'd help. We intend to keep the Patrol for many years, but I guess it would be a good feature if ever sell it.
Geez I start out thinking about a little electric pump just to reinflate tyres now & again & end up considering top of the range engine driven compressors & everything else in between.
I think if I were mending a tube in the middle of woop woop i'd prefer the the engine driven unit when refitting the split rims. Decisions decisions! :1087:

The Endless Air complete set up on Ebay is $850 delivered. Can anyone tell me how much I should expect to pay to get it fitted?

Re. The Boss compressors running hot, the friend who has one in his OKA who recommended them to me says the same, that they run very hot & that this is the reason they have a special braided silicon hose.

regards
Cuppa

[macca]

Photos of my install. I also have a water trap, but the tank would catch most of the water in the air.
All compressors run hot, compressing the air does that. Add motor heat as well.
Decisions decisions

[Cuppa]

Thanks Macca, appreciate you taking the time, pics always help.

I spoke with the Endless Air people in Melbourne today who confirmed that the 4.2TDi models have a chassis crossmember which needs 'peening' with a hammer to gain sufficient clearance to fit their compressor, (TD models have a smaller radiator with a crossmember that gives sufficient clearance without need for such 'modification').
He reckoned that fitting was about a 1.5 hour job provided it was done a a workshop with a hoist. Price was $595 for the 9cfm compressor or $495 for 8cfm model, plus $340 for mounting kit, + cost of tank, hoses, fittings etc. He's sending me a catalogue with all parts & prices, but I'm guessing it'd be $1400-$1500 by the time it was all fitted & working. I haven't been around 4wd's much, but it seems from looking around a few forums etc on the net lots of people say an engine driven compressor set up is the best way to go, but very few have actually done it.

If anyone is interested I'll share more info when I get the catalogue & pricelist & hopefully fitting instructions.

regards
Cuppa

[nissannewby]

They are the go and there are a few around. If alls your gonna do is air tyres and use the air blower every now and then your boss compressor with a tank will suffice and be prob half the price. However if your are planning on running lockers, pneumatic tooling and airing tyres more often then yeah. Whichever way you go i dont think you will be unhappy with either option.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Photos of my install. I also have a water trap, but the tank would catch most of the water in the air.
All compressors run hot, compressing the air does that. Add motor heat as well.
Decisions decisions

Hey macca, is that the 9ltr tank in the pic? I thought mine was 25ltr and yours looks like a bigger tank than mine

[macca]

Hey macca, is that the 9ltr tank in the pic? I thought mine was 25ltr and yours looks like a bigger tank than mine

I thought it was 9 litre. Its 160mm diameter x 450mm Long.

Had a look on ebay it might be 15 litres

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12-volt-heavy-duty-compressor-and-board-air-kit-tank-4x4-offroad-/170850879972?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c78189e4

[Cuppa]

Boss Tank sizes

6 litre H150mm x W140mm x L840mm
9 litre H220mm x W180mm x L450mm
15 litre H220mm x W180mm x L750mm

[Cuppa]

Well I think I've made a decision!
If I had the non intercooled TD4.2 I might be a bit more tempted to go with the Endless air setup, but having to bash a crossmember with a big hammer to fit it in doesn't sound like something I want to do. Apart from 'damaging' the chassis I'm sure if clearances are that tight that installation will be a pain & that it is likely to compromise future maintenance.
The deciding factor was getting Endless Air's catalogue & realising that their compressors are 'remanufactured' ie second hand which seems a bit rich at the price they charge imho.
I've also read several accounts of people with engine driven air con compressors as air compressors having problems with them overheating & seizing, as well as folk with belts not staying on pulleys. It's likely that these faults are a result of how they are used or installed, but in my judgement not worth the risk. A member from here commented to me that he preferred the idea of keeping everything 'stock' for outback travel which made a lot of sense to me. I'm sure, for example, a standard fitment fan belt would be easier to source in Woop Woop than a 'special' one to run both fan & compressor.

So electric it will be. And most likely a Boss PX-07 with an airtank although I'm still open to alternatives. Thanks to all who have contributed both in the the thread & via PM's.

regards
Cuppa

[Bad-Trol]

Hi Cuppa,

Sounds like you've put a lot thought into this (as I did when I bought a compressor). Like you, I wanted the same things, but tyre inflation and air lockers were my PRIORITY, everything else was a bonus.
While researching, I discovered that ARB's AVAILABILITY was better (can get parts and replacements). So I went with the ARB and mounted it myself (pretty easy to do). I bought a hose kit from ARB which had basic nossles and inflator and I haven't had a problem yet. As for a tank, I'm sure you can find one to go somewhere, a mate of mine has one under his passanger seat.

Whatever you do, I'm sure you're going to love having mobile air!

[moose maverick]

hey mate,
You might be able to go to a truck wreckers and pick upan air tank for next to nothing. If you jump under your truck and find a nice spot for it you will have no problems. They make air tanks for trucks in all sizes so you should find something that will work for ya. If you set it up right you may only want to plug a bigger tank in when using your air tools. For airing up the tyres you may get away with just using the compressor. If you have a roof rack you could throw an air vessel up there just like carrying a gas bottle only comes down if you need it.

[macca]

Where are you up to Cuppa? Have you opened the wallet and bent the card yet?

[Cuppa]

No not yet Macca, but the decision is made. It's gonna be a Boss, but still deciding on whether or not to get a tank with it. Getting a bit worried about vehicle weight. I talk about stuff ahead of time, my short term goal at the moment is to get a 240v electrical certificate of safety sorted out, & the plumbing to a state where I can fill it up with water & ensure no leaks, 240v heating works etc. Then I'll start looking for places to put an air tank. I'm not sure yet whether to put the compressor in the canopy & power it from the 'house' batteries or to put it under the bonnet & run it from the starter battery. If it goes under the bonnet it will take the space that the current auxillary (winch) battery uses as I intend to remove it (& connect house batteries to starter battery with a biggg cable - 70mm2 at least maybe 95mm2, for winching).

I think if I had it under the bonnet powered by the single starter battery it should be ok if I kept the motor running & bonnet up when using it? Not sure if it needs to be in a more protected environment like the canopy though.


Cuppa

[Cuppa]

Final decision made.
It will be a Boss onboard air kit with a 9 litre tank & 110/135psi pressure switch. $608 delivered from 'Off Road Boss'. Unfortunately they are currently out of stock & waiting for a further shipment from the US in August. Worth the wait as I don't have an immediate need, & their prices are lower than most.


Some may be interested to see the hand drawn installation diagram they sent me.

Cuppa

[Cuppa]

Had to wait for 'Off Road Boss' to receive a new shipment from the USA, but today my new compressor & 9 litre tank with 110/135 psi switch arrived in the mail. It sure is one meaty lookin' mother. Compared to the Thomas compressor I have fitted on our bus this little beauty's motor body is about twice the diameter.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/08/63.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2012/08/64.jpg

Cuppa.

[macca]

You will not be dissapointed with that "meaty lookin' mother".
Happy Pumpin Mate
Cheers Macca