Dawes fitment check please...

[mudski]

I have just finished fitting the NADS. I have gone over the instructions by Chaz a gazzilion times I reckon but I want to be sure first. Knowing me I reckon I've missed something.
See pic...
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6317/sam0037large.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/sam0037large.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I have also fitted a needle valve. No pic but one vac line comes from the resonator to the valve, then from the valve to the boost side of the dawes.
I have two fittings welded in the steel pipe from the IC, one is for the boost guage pressure sensor and the other is for the dawes, which you can see in the pic.

Now, I did quickly start the car to, just to see. My boost gauge readings went through the roof at idle so I don't know whats happening here. I screwed the dawes right in, and unscrewed it probably half of the screw length and the actuator arm still didn't move. So I just shut it down and have not done anything from there.

Note, in the pic you can see the boost line to the dawes not on the barb correctly, I had taken it off prior to the pic...Just in case anyone asks.
Also the needle valve. What setting should this be on to start with?

Cheers.

[scotty83]

Which engine is this? Assuming it is the 3L by the intercooler but what year? Don't recognise the black tube your T piece is headed to near the intercooler.

[boots]

Hello mudski , get some wd40 or similar , remove dawes and dismantle , clean with wd40 and blow dry with air and re try . it may be not seated right inside .

[mudski]

Which engine is this? Assuming it is the 3L by the intercooler but what year? Don't recognise the black tube your T piece is headed to near the intercooler.

Yeah scotty the engine is a 3L, 2001 model. the black tube off the t piece goes tot he needle valve, the black tube that curls under that t piece is from the resonator to the needle valve.

Boots, I'll give that a shot.

But going by the pic. Does it look its done right?

[boots]

Sorry for late reply mudski - are you winning the battle . for me there was trial and error with getting it set right aswell . but your plumbing does look odd , as scotty said that black cannister near intercooler is confusing me . playing some think music now and popping bonnet to recheck mine .

[boots]

mine does not have that black cannister near the intercooler mudski ,that seems to be the only visual differance to my setup to yours. needle valve leave open fully and once you get the bugs ironed out thats your last tweek point .

[mudski]

That black canister is actually a vacuum canister. They stopped using them from about 2003 I believe. The black line going into the centre of the canister is from the vacuum pump, then it goes out (the red line). Not even sure what this does or it's purpose really.
I sort out my gauge maxing out. Silly me had one of the wires in the wrong sensor plug. But now it reads zero at idle. But I suppose it will until I actually drive it.
As for the needle valve, I will fully open this up tomorrow, then get the thing out of the garage for the first time since I bought it.

[mudski]

O.k I took her for a spin around the back streets, mind you there was a few speed hump to go over, so I only go to rev it up to about 3000rpm and the boost did not exceed 10psi.
I 'm reading Chaz's tut on tuning the dawes but he states "Dawes Valve should be set to around 10psi at 2000rpm and the Needle Valve adjusted to give no more than 6psi at 1500rpm". So to do this I get the dawes set first at this then I adjust the needle after that? Just want to be sure...
Also, with the dawes, turning the screw inwards( compressing the ball and spring ) will create more boost or less? I'm taking more as it needs more pressure to open up the dawes.
Like before I just want to be sure...

[Sir Roofy]

if your following chaz,s form then you,l be on the mark
once you set it to chaz,s its just a matter of fine tuning to what you need
a tweak here and one there

[mudski]

Sweet. Well I took it for a good spin and the boost max's out at 12psi. I have opened the needle valve right up so i haven't touched this yet. I'll be taking my time with it.
Thanks to all who helped.

[scotty83]

That make sense of the canister. Sorry I hadn't seen one that age before. Glad you got it sorted. My Dawes is up as tight as it can go and I get 10-12psi max which is what I wanted.

[Chaz]

mudski,

Those figures that I quoted are generally conservative safe levels for setting up. You can go a bit higher if you like, but then you may have limp mode issues and need to go back a bit.

I normally start by setting up the needle valve first and do this by closing it all the way (clockwise) and start the engine. Watch the turbo actuator as you begin to open the needle valve and when you see the actuator begin to drop away from it's stop screw, leave it there for the time being. Then go for a drive and see how high your boost goes. Ideally it should spike to around 16 or 17 and settle at 15 with a bit of throttle and load. Drive it normally as you would taking off at the traffic lights. Then just stop and make adjustments until you get it right. Even at full throttle, the Dawes should hold your boost at it's set point until you go over about 3500rpm, where the turbo will overcome the Dawes and your boost should continue to rise up to 18psi at 4000rpm. If you can't get enough boost with the Dawes adjusted all the way in, then you may need to stretch the internal spring slightly until you can. Quite often we need to stretch them about 5mm to get the 15psi setting.

After that, you may be able to increase or decrease boost slightly on the run with the needle valve. I use to close it sometimes going up hills to help EGT's and could get 3psi adjustment with about one turn.

If your car is a GUII, you'll have the vacuum canister. Nissan wisely omitted them on the GUIII and later. I've found quite a few that caused problems when they cracked from heat. If you have any low vacuum issues, just remove the canister and bypass it. You won't notice any difference.

[mudski]

I normally start by setting up the needle valve first and do this by closing it all the way (clockwise) and start the engine.
O.k So I have the needle valve in my dash the same as in your pics. So if i adjust the needle valve first, and the dawes is fitted. What position or setting should the dawes be in?




Watch the turbo actuator as you begin to open the needle valve and when you see the actuator begin to drop away from it's stop screw, leave it there for the time being. Then go for a drive and see how high your boost goes. Ideally it should spike to around 16 or 17 and settle at 15 with a bit of throttle and load. Drive it normally as you would taking off at the traffic lights. Then just stop and make adjustments until you get it right. Even at full throttle, the Dawes should hold your boost at it's set point until you go over about 3500rpm, where the turbo will overcome the Dawes and your boost should continue to rise up to 18psi at 4000rpm. If you can't get enough boost with the Dawes adjusted all the way in, then you may need to stretch the internal spring slightly until you can. Quite often we need to stretch them about 5mm to get the 15psi setting.

After that, you may be able to increase or decrease boost slightly on the run with the needle valve. I use to close it sometimes going up hills to help EGT's and could get 3psi adjustment with about one turn.
On my needle valve mate. Is there an in and out on the valve? I didn't see anything on it so I just plumbed it up.


If your car is a GUII, you'll have the vacuum canister. Nissan wisely omitted them on the GUIII and later. I've found quite a few that caused problems when they cracked from heat. If you have any low vacuum issues, just remove the canister and bypass it. You won't notice any difference.

Yeh mines the GUII. I was actually trying to work out the purpose of the canister, and I nearly did just remove it too. As one of the barbs had broken off, so I glued it back in with some 406. Good gear that. I might just take it off anyhow.
Driving around town and out on the freeway it maxes out now at just a smidge over 12psi. I can't bear to rev the engine to 3500rpm, let alone 4000.
I was playing around with the needle valve today whilst driving and from opened right up to fully closed I didn't noticed anything. Nada.

[Chaz]

O.k So I have the needle valve in my dash the same as in your pics. So if i adjust the needle valve first, and the dawes is fitted. What position or setting should the dawes be in?
The Dawes needs to be adjusted so that it will allow the boost to hold at 15psi. This is usually a safe limit below 3000rpm because if you go above that for more than a few seconds, it'll most likely go into limp mode unless you can modify the MAF voltage to the ECU. The best way is to drive the car and see where it holds boost and make small adjustments until it holds 15psi.


On my needle valve mate. Is there an in and out on the valve? I didn't see anything on it so I just plumbed it up.
There shouldn't be unless your valve is a needle valve with an inbuilt check valve. I have heard some people say that their valve is directional, but I suspect that they are using a needle with a check check valve built into it. The valves that I use are not directional.


Yeh mines the GUII. I was actually trying to work out the purpose of the canister, and I nearly did just remove it too. As one of the barbs had broken off, so I glued it back in with some 406. Good gear that. I might just take it off anyhow.
Driving around town and out on the freeway it maxes out now at just a smidge over 12psi. I can't bear to rev the engine to 3500rpm, let alone 4000.
I was playing around with the needle valve today whilst driving and from opened right up to fully closed I didn't noticed anything. Nada.

The needle valve can only reduce boost at cruise by opening it. This doesn't work well if you haven't adjusted your VNT grub screw, but should still slow down the spool rate a bit. It's not really an option worth considering anyway, but it's there. I just prefer to set and forget the thing and the best way to have more than one boost setting is to use more than one Dawes valve. It won't do much under power once the Dawes has reached it's limit. Try adjusting the Dawes to hold at 15psi.
Yeh, the canister is ok if it's in good condition, but I've seen a few crack causing problems for the owners. Removing it solves the issue easily.

[mudski]

The Dawes needs to be adjusted so that it will allow the boost to hold at 15psi. This is usually a safe limit below 3000rpm because if you go above that for more than a few seconds, it'll most likely go into limp mode unless you can modify the MAF voltage to the ECU. The best way is to drive the car and see where it holds boost and make small adjustments until it holds 15psi.
The way it is now it won't go over 12PSI. Even over 3000rpm. When I get back home I'm gonna start from scratch as I adjusted the dawes first. So. Should I open the dawes right up to adjust the needle valve first?



There shouldn't be unless your valve is a needle valve with an inbuilt check valve. I have heard some people say that their valve is directional, but I suspect that they are using a needle with a check check valve built into it. The valves that I use are not directional.
I got my valve from Dependable...I had a look on it and I did see an A and B on each port. But no arrows so I think its not directional.



The needle valve can only reduce boost at cruise by opening it. This doesn't work well if you haven't adjusted your VNT grub screw, but should still slow down the spool rate a bit. It's not really an option worth considering anyway, but it's there. I just prefer to set and forget the thing and the best way to have more than one boost setting is to use more than one Dawes valve. It won't do much under power once the Dawes has reached it's limit. Try adjusting the Dawes to hold at 15psi.
Yeh, the canister is ok if it's in good condition, but I've seen a few crack causing problems for the owners. Removing it solves the issue easily.
Great. I haven't touched the VNT screw at all, I'm considering buying another dawes and fit two inline with a solenoid switch and I think i will just remove the canister, I can't really see the point of it and if nissan don't fit it to the later GU3 & 4's with the exact same engine, I see no point in having it...

Thanks for you help

[Chaz]

The way it is now it won't go over 12PSI. Even over 3000rpm. When I get back home I'm gonna start from scratch as I adjusted the dawes first. So. Should I open the dawes right up to adjust the needle valve first?


I got my valve from Dependable...I had a look on it and I did see an A and B on each port. But no arrows so I think its not directional.


Great. I haven't touched the VNT screw at all, I'm considering buying another dawes and fit two inline with a solenoid switch and I think i will just remove the canister, I can't really see the point of it and if nissan don't fit it to the later GU3 & 4's with the exact same engine, I see no point in having it...

Thanks for you help

The Dawes and Needle valves are two separate items and one shouldn’t affect the other. The Dawes will limit maximum boost and the Needle valve will control the spool rate or how quickly the boost will rise, so the needle valve should have no influence on maximum boost under load and the Dawes valve shouldn’t have any influence on how fast the turbo spools. It shouldn’t matter if the needle valve is open or closed to set up the Dawes, but if it’s too far open, it will take longer to get to the maximum boost level. I just setup the spool first because it’s done with the engine idling and then go for a drive to set the maximum boost level.

If you’re not sure if the needle valve is directional, try blowing through it open and you shouldn’t feel any restriction blowing in either direction.

[mudski]

Thanks for all your help.

[BOWZER]

Hey mudski, my GU has that black canister as well, i want to install my needle valve but i am confused on how to do this because of the canister. Can you please help me out? and the needle valve that im using will be in the engine bay not the cabin.

Cheers chris

[mudski]

Hey mudski, my GU has that black canister as well, i want to install my needle valve but i am confused on how to do this because of the canister. Can you please help me out? and the needle valve that im using will be in the engine bay not the cabin.

Cheers chris
Hey Chris that black canister is a vacuum canister, you can bypass it if you want as many of them snap the ends off where the vac hose goes on. I have just left mine on.
This is the diagram you need to go by if installing the needle valve.
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/51/boostcontrol.jpg
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/boostcontrol.jpg/)
So basically you will only have one line coming from the air resonator, next to the air filter housing, going into one side of the needle valve and the other side tee's into the vacuum side of the Dawes. Then you need to block off all three vac ports on the solenoid.
Hope this helps.

Edit : I bought my needle valve from Dependable distributors in Adelaide too. Mine leaks though, with the radio off and the car at idle you can hear a hissing sound coming from it. All the fittings are tight, the leak is coming from the centre section on the valve. I pressure tested it in water and does not leak, but under vacuum, it leaks. So I'm am wondering if this valve is designed for vacuum. My guess that it's not. Plus, I can wind my valve all the way in or out and it make sweet f.a difference. Because of the leak I believe. Jut one of the many things on my list to get around fixing.

[BOWZER]

Cheers mate I ended up doing mine on Saturday, I removed the vacuum tank, was working good but now When the car is under load it's getting a high pitch hiss noise.

[mudski]

The vacuum canister you mean? Try putting the canister back in and see if the hiss is still there....You need to eliminate this out of the equation before you start any more trouble shooting. Sorry for the late reply. Even pm me if you dont hear from me.

[BOWZER]

I will try and put it back in thanks for the advise I will let you know how I go

[kevin07]

Hey Chris that black canister is a vacuum canister, you can bypass it if you want as many of them snap the ends off where the vac hose goes on. I have just left mine on.
This is the diagram you need to go by if installing the needle valve.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/boostcontrol.jpg/)
So basically you will only have one line coming from the air resonator, next to the air filter housing, going into one side of the needle valve and the other side tee's into the vacuum side of the Dawes. Then you need to block off all three vac ports on the solenoid.
Hope this helps.

Edit : I bought my needle valve from Dependable distributors in Adelaide too. Mine leaks though, with the radio off and the car at idle you can hear a hissing sound coming from it. All the fittings are tight, the leak is coming from the centre section on the valve. I pressure tested it in water and does not leak, but under vacuum, it leaks. So I'm am wondering if this valve is designed for vacuum. My guess that it's not. Plus, I can wind my valve all the way in or out and it make sweet f.a difference. Because of the leak I believe. Jut one of the many things on my list to get around fixing.

have a look here steve

[threedogs]

Once you get to know the names of whats whats it will become a lot clearer.
If you need a hand you can pop over my way

[megatexture]

An old relic this one lol

[Steve4wdin]

Yes I needed a bit of help. Kevin 07 came to my aid. Thanks Kev. Mudski supplied me a Dawes and needle valve kit, plus egr blank. My problem is some body ( who installed my power module) had bypassed the Air box resonator completely, hence my confusion at the diagram.
Steve
Oh by the way, this vacuum dampener. is it important?

[mudski]

Yes I needed a bit of help. Kevin 07 came to my aid. Thanks Kev. Mudski supplied me a Dawes and needle valve kit, plus egr blank. My problem is some body ( who installed my power module) had bypassed the Air box resonator completely, hence my confusion at the diagram.
Steve
Oh by the way, this vacuum dampener. is it important?

Put the dampener on the line from the vacuum pump. When using the needle valve you need to plumb into the air resonator box too.

[Dr Gary]

if your following chaz,s form then you,l be on the mark
once you set it to chaz,s its just a matter of fine tuning to what you need
a tweak here and one there
Can you point me to "Chaz's" post so I am better informed before I start the NADS process. Thanks

[Steve4wdin]

To Kevin07 and Mudski. Thanks guys, fitted dawes and needle this afternoon. Took about an hour or 2 beers in the old scale. Will fine tune tomorrow before beer o'clock.
Steve

[mudski]

Can you point me to "Chaz's" post so I am better informed before I start the NADS process. Thanks

What is it you need to know mate?

[megatexture]

Can you point me to "Chaz's" post so I am better informed before I start the NADS process. Thanks

It's not in a post its a document/download

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?89-Nissan-Patrol-Reference-Document&highlight=Nissan+patrol+reference+document