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Thread: Harrop 2300 supercharger to Optimiser 6500

  1. #311
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    Bit of a crap day today. I bought an inspection camera to see if I could find that coolant leak but no luck so far. I then decided to re-torque the inlet manifold to the block as the 'wind' was getting loader plus I was losing boost - hit 10psi then starts to drop and there is a god almighty whistle going on. So retorqued the bolts, started it up and the breeze is still there, plus a horrendous squeal from the front of the engine and the 8V belt was starting to track off the idler. I looked at the assy and 'nothing had changed', so when I took the load off the belt to flick it back across, I noticed the idle pulley flexing by about 2-3 degrees from the belt tension. I have been running the green fleetguard belt, so thought I would first swap out the auto tensioner as maybe it had failed and was over tensioning the belt. Swapped it over for a spare I bought from brunswick diesel, and of course it has not ben internally modified to give a great throw,. so that had to be swapped back to the original. Then I thought I would swap out the belt for a new standard duty belt which has a bit more give - this turned into a saga as night was upon me and my patience was ebbing. Anyway, got the belt on, just, but the sub assy is still flexing.

    From here I will have a look if anything has actually come loose on the brackets, but right now the belt tension appears through the roof, and have not driven it to ascertain what the falling/limited boost issue is.

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  4. #312
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    Something has happened to change the tension, you need to find that out first.
    I used to design FEADs for a living when I worked for GMPowertrain, and it is not normal for the tension to go up, if anything it should have gone down, Has the internal spring been over tensioned for any reason, maybe check that it is sitting in the right location.
    There is a torque measurement to check on the tensioner to see if it is within spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poindexter View Post
    Something has happened to change the tension, you need to find that out first.
    I used to design FEADs for a living when I worked for GMPowertrain, and it is not normal for the tension to go up, if anything it should have gone down, Has the internal spring been over tensioned for any reason, maybe check that it is sitting in the right location.
    There is a torque measurement to check on the tensioner to see if it is within spec.
    Thanks Ralph, yes, what has changed, precisely. There are two drilled holes for clocking the tensioner into position, and I was not aware/didn't have my glasses on - whatever, and put the tensioner into the wrong hole. This increased the belt tension, however it took a while for the actual belt to stretch and then work its way off the idler to some degree. I installed a different belt and it was a difficult job to install it. Anyway, I spoke with BD today and was made aware of the second hole, so undid the tensioner and dropped it into the correct position. The issue now however is the tension is too low to drive the vacuum pump! The pump only has about 45deg of contact. So, BD are making up a larger diameter idler to bring the tensioner up in force - with luck that will work without changing belt sizes.

    The static idler under the s/c snout is still too weak from my perspective for longevity. I have asked BD to increase the size of the bearing and the support stub axle - it appears the one fitted has too small a footprint on the mount plate, plus the mount plate has a design weakness that is difficult to overcome, made by Bullet. This slippage I believe also corresponds with the drop in boost pressure, however still have this bit of airflow coming out dead and centre from the valley area - its ambient temperature - maybe its some sort of random airflow from the radiatior fan flow?

    In summation, looks like operator error to some degree, which I can accept as long as there is a reason and not stupidity. Once this is resolved, I am basically done. I have the truck booked into performance exhaust to get the diesel particulate canister installed between flanges, and final weld out of the chassis stiffener overhead welds. I will also get them to comment on an exhaust dia upgrade to 4" mandrel and see what they can do with the exhaust manifold re headers, then will start looking around to see who I am going to approach for final engineering on the s/c installation - have you selected a VASS engineer to work with? the guy in hallam has disappeared completely it seems.

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    OK, sounds like you may be onto the issue.
    The tension is too low to drive the vac pump? really? doesn't sound right to me, check that the belt length is correct. What nominal length are you using?
    I wish you luck getting a 4" exhaust through, is performance exhaust the mob in Lilydale?
    Spoken to Enkelman & associates, and they are ok with the conversion. Front axle weight will be the main issue according to them. Present the truck with no or minimal accessories mounted to the front they advise.
    I will be using them for my project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poindexter View Post
    OK, sounds like you may be onto the issue.
    The tension is too low to drive the vac pump? really? doesn't sound right to me, check that the belt length is correct. What nominal length are you using?
    I wish you luck getting a 4" exhaust through, is performance exhaust the mob in Lilydale?
    Spoken to Enkelman & associates, and they are ok with the conversion. Front axle weight will be the main issue according to them. Present the truck with no or minimal accessories mounted to the front they advise.
    I will be using them for my project.
    The belt length has not changed, its 8pk3020. The tension is related to the belt path/length for sure. Its marginal from a length perspective. ie tension and marginal from an angle of wrap perspective, remembering the drive is on the back surface of the belt and its a shiny steel pulley and minimal contact. I sourced the next size down belt from Gates, however it was too short - however may fit now with the tensioner being in the correct position.
    I don't intend going through engineering with the 4" exhaust. Performance exhaust are in Scoresby/Rowville. Good luck with those guys, they backflipped twice on me, wasted a LOT of time with them, won't go back to them. I think the BD legacy was a lot to do with it to be honest.
    What are your front and rear axle limits? I put mine over a weighbridge in Hallam to get them. The GQ is 1500 for the front and 1800 for the rear. I didn't exceed these numbers even with both winches/bulbar/batteries, however the guts of the vehicle was largely stripped out and empty fuel tanks etc.
    Last edited by PeeBee; 30th May 2020 at 06:37 PM.

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    Seems that the belt length might be a problem as I'm assuming the standard size increments might not work in our favor. Either too long or too short.
    I'm not running a vac pump, and intend to run a shorter belt, however if unsuitable, might have a dummy pulley there.
    Regarding Enkelman, was recommended to me by the mechanic, and seems ok over the phone, buy then so does Archie.
    All this FEAD talk is making me nervous about the S/C, but you are the pioneer and hopefully sort out the issues smartly.

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  10. #317
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    I have bought a 12V vac pump also, and if I cant get this sorted promptly, I will be going down a similar route to you. The pump for me was a back-up device as the truck is a TOTAL pig to stop without the vac assist, plus the clutch is vac assisted also and it becomes a doughy feel and changing gears feels 'on the edge of gear crunch at times'. The stuff that I am wading through simply should not be happening. All this is supposed to be from 'mature kits' but seems there is always a variable. Anyway, next hurdle is to resolve the idler mount plate rigidity and then the alignment and belt tension issues. Keep you posted.

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    I'm running a hydroboost for the brakes which is why I don't need vac.
    My moment of truth will come with the 6L90, which was never fitted behind the 6.5.
    It beat Marks 4WD as they couldn't get the torque convertor to play nice, and has since dropped their conversion for 79 series.
    However, when I talked to Marks, they were such pricks about divulging info about the conversion, I withheld what I knew from GM Powertrain.
    Mind you Quadstar in the USA were no better, so a big FY to them all if I get this to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poindexter View Post
    I'm running a hydroboost for the brakes which is why I don't need vac.
    My moment of truth will come with the 6L90, which was never fitted behind the 6.5.
    It beat Marks 4WD as they couldn't get the torque convertor to play nice, and has since dropped their conversion for 79 series.
    However, when I talked to Marks, they were such pricks about divulging info about the conversion, I withheld what I knew from GM Powertrain.
    Mind you Quadstar in the USA were no better, so a big FY to them all if I get this to work.
    Luv it Ralph, keep pushing where you have the belief.

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    OK, looks like I have found the issue at the root of my belt alignment hassles. There is a mount plate supplied with the kit and this has 4 bolts anchoring the static idler to the block. One of the bolt has snapped under tensionsnapped bolt.JPG - so the plate assy can move up and down, putting uneven load onto the belt and pushing it out of alignment. What a piss off as i now have to disassemble a few parts and drill out the broken bolt. I will be replacing these soft as cheese cake crap screws with unbrakos for sure. Looks like the actual mount plate is bent as well due to the load, so thats another part to buy. Anyway, tomorrow is the drill out day and using my new right angle drill and set of screw extractors, I trust it will get done. Wish it was as easy to find as the image shows - its actually buried/shadowed under another plate, so everything needs to come off to get to it.
    Last edited by PeeBee; 2nd June 2020 at 07:43 AM.

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