Help? Towing - ball weights and reduce gvm?

[Melandmatt86]

Can anyone help?
I’m only new to this forum and and trying to find out how to interpret this sticker. I would really appreciate some help please, before I go and begin a phone merri-go-round with Nissan head office.

We want to purchase a family caravan and travel Australia. We have had our patrol for 5 years since new and thought we already had half our problem solved with having the car set up. But, I came across this sticker and now it’s thrown a spanner in the works.

We have a manual 3L, so breaker towing of 3200kg. Our plated GVM is 3060kg. Let’s just say the “caravan” will be 2700kg ATM have a loaded ball weight of 270kg (being the suggested 10% ball weight of ATM). The patrols Kerb weight is 2455kg, leaving a Payload of 605kg. (This is not including any extras on our car, people etc) I’m just playing around with basic figures for now.

To me, the sticker reads as:

As my ball weight is (250-300kg), I have to reduce my gvm by 220kg.

605kg less my 220kg is new payload of 385kg.

New payload of 385 less my actual tow ball download of 270kg = 115kg left..

So that 115kg, I have to fill my tanks, fit my family of 4 in the car, and include the few accessories we have in our car at a minimum.

Am I reading this right? 🙋🏼*♀️🤷🏼*♀️

Thanks.

7B383AFA-EF44-4D73-97C5-2AC40FA4298F.jpeg

[Cuppa]

No I dont think you are reading it correctly.

I believe you are counting the towball twice when you should only be counting it once. Simply deduct the towball weight from the GVM as the towball weight will be the equivalent of adding that weight to the vehicle/

Thus in your example..... your 605kg payload becomes 605 - 220 = 385Kg. Still difficult to fill the tanks & fit 4 people in though I reckon. Reducing the kerb weight of the vehicle might be a possibility, but a lighter van with less ballweight is probably the best solution.

There are plenty of folk around who would say that towing anything at the plated limits is unwise & that it is safer & preferable to have a vehicle which is heavier than the van.

It is my belief that there is a correlation between a growing number of reported caravan rollovers & the combination of lighter tow vehicles with heavier caravans.

To be honest that sticker seems illogical to me. My understanding is that legal requirements say all of the towball weight of a vehicle is included in the tow vehicle's gross mass. Why then would a 200kg towball weight not be counted ....... and a 250kg towball weight only be counted as 150kg on the gross mass?
If ringing around to ask questions I suggest that asking those who make the rules, your road traffic authority, might be a better bet than the car manufacturer.

[Melandmatt86]

Thanks so much for your reply!
Completely agree with you, if your calculations are correct, you are still not left with a great deal. However, that then completely disregards this sticker? My brother seems to think, I should just reduce by the sticker amount, but then not deduct my towball weight? But if this is the case, I would be deducting 220kg and not allowing for the full 270kg deduction of tow ball weight? So confused 😕

[Clunk]

And don't forget to tske into account the weight of bullbar, winch and roof racks etc if fitted

[Melandmatt86]

Yep, I’ll have to get it weighed for a proper tare weight, but this was just basic plate figures to get my head around it. What do you think it means Clunk?

[Clunk]

Yep, I’ll have to get it weighed for a proper tare weight, but this was just basic plate figures to get my head around it. What do you think it means Clunk?

It means that you're going to be able to carry sod all if towing a heavy load ........

To be honest with you, I don't fully understand the ins and outs, as I've not yet been in that situation. We still just tent it and only tow a trailer of no more than 750kg when we're going away for more than a few days. So what we carry and tow falls under the GVM & GCM

[Melandmatt86]

Oh yes, the gvm falls under a whole other category haha, luckily the patrol has a fairly decent gcm, which is great to have for a family sized van we can’t tow.... 🤪 logical huh? Haha

[Cuppa]

I asked the question on another forum http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic...50896#p1150896

To be honest I'm still not clear either but it seems (to me) that perhaps you were correct in the first place. ie. That the GVM is derated by 220kg & then the ball weight has to be included as well. Bummer!.

May need a GVM upgrade (which as I understand it will reduce the max weight you can tow by the increase in the GVM weight as GCM mus remain unchanged) .... so in this example the max weight of van you could tow would be reduced to an ATM of 2765kg IF you loaded the Patrol, with upgraded GVM to it's full extent. Still not a lot to play with but it does offer a bit more choice as to where the allowable weight gets stowed.

[Melandmatt86]

Hi! Thanks for checking it out on another thread. Seems Jeff agrees with me on that forum. Makes me wonder how they can possibly think one can tow a decent sized van!

I’ve asked Lovell’s for an upgrade and they don’t do one for the patrol wagon only the Ute or the bigger engines I think. Plus there’s the new ban on them too?

So based on max figures with 350kg tbd.
Payload 605kg - 350kg tbd = 255kg.
255kg less reduced gvm 290kg means I’m over by 45kg and I have even sat in the drivers seat yet!!

🤔🤔

[Cuppa]

No ban, just closed the 'loophole' whereby some vehicles were able to get an increased GCM by getting a GVM increase.

Looks as though you need a lighter van (or a bigger car)! Lighter shouldn't necessarily mean smaller or weaker, but many manufacturers still need to take this on board which no doubt reduces choices to many. No help to you, but hopefully as van manufacturers come to realise 3 tonne plus vans are not what is needed they'll get smarter about construction methods rather than just taking stonger means heavier approaches.

Can you reduce kerb weight - removal of accessories?