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Thread: Towing a 6m Lotus Trooper Caravan wit my 2001 GU 3litre turbo

  1. #21
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    Just read this on an air bags review. Quote "I repair bent 4x4 chassis for a living, so i probably shouldn't write this post as 80% of my work comes from the fitment of air bags.
    But i feel i need to help out my Earth freinds so hear goes.
    We buy these 4x4s ,load them to the gunnels then wack a fully loaded camper trailer(maybe another three tonne )on the towball and serprise! the ass and is sagging. Well i'll just wack some air bags in,takes the load of the springs they say.
    So wear dose the load go ???
    straight on to the chassis
    I've had 4x4s dragged in to work from all parts of this wide brown land at huge cost to their owners due to over loading and air bags ,some bent beyond repair with the towbar at 30 deg. bellow parallel.
    The utes are the worst (Hilux,Triton,Navara,Ranger-bt50)with their flimsy 2 mm thick rear chassis.How they have a three tonne towing cap. is beyond me.Had a ford ranger just the other day cracked near threw at the bump stops.
    Patrols- while the chassis are fairly strong their weak point is their rear spring mounts,they bend up into the floorpan, busting brakelines on the way&bending the body.
    Defenders- (don't get me started.what a pile of sh!t) while they might look strong they are not. bending & cracking at the shocker mounts.
    Land Cruisers -haven't had a bent one yet (gess what i drive).

    Hope this opens a can of worms , there's alot to be said about over loading 4x4s makeing dangerous& unroadworthy...air bags don't solve the problem-if you won't to carry five tonne buy a truck.
    Still have alot more info on chassis week points but thats enough typing for now

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    PeeBee (31st July 2019)

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  4. #22
    Breadmaker Shaker Plasnart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipA View Post
    Just read this on an air bags review. Quote "I repair bent 4x4 chassis for a living, so i probably shouldn't write this post as 80% of my work comes from the fitment of air bags.
    But i feel i need to help out my Earth freinds so hear goes.
    We buy these 4x4s ,load them to the gunnels then wack a fully loaded camper trailer(maybe another three tonne )on the towball and serprise! the ass and is sagging. Well i'll just wack some air bags in,takes the load of the springs they say.
    So wear dose the load go ???
    straight on to the chassis
    I've had 4x4s dragged in to work from all parts of this wide brown land at huge cost to their owners due to over loading and air bags ,some bent beyond repair with the towbar at 30 deg. bellow parallel.
    The utes are the worst (Hilux,Triton,Navara,Ranger-bt50)with their flimsy 2 mm thick rear chassis.How they have a three tonne towing cap. is beyond me.Had a ford ranger just the other day cracked near threw at the bump stops.
    Patrols- while the chassis are fairly strong their weak point is their rear spring mounts,they bend up into the floorpan, busting brakelines on the way&bending the body.
    Defenders- (don't get me started.what a pile of sh!t) while they might look strong they are not. bending & cracking at the shocker mounts.
    Land Cruisers -haven't had a bent one yet (gess what i drive).

    Hope this opens a can of worms , there's alot to be said about over loading 4x4s makeing dangerous& unroadworthy...air bags don't solve the problem-if you won't to carry five tonne buy a truck.
    Still have alot more info on chassis week points but thats enough typing for now
    That issue has been discussed numerous times on this forum. I'm not a fan of airbags for that very reason. The springs are there for a reason. Upgrade springs and let them do the work rather than transfer loads direct to the chassis via airbags. But that's just my opinion. Others have other opinions.

    EDIT: Level rides are a great invention for highway towing. Get the front suspension involved in the load sharing. Not great for offroad though. Pros and cons to everything.
    Last edited by Plasnart; 30th July 2019 at 09:48 PM.
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  5. #23
    Patrol Freak jff45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasnart View Post
    Well if that's an Australian Nissan part number then it can be relied upon for this issue?
    I donít think a sticker that Nissan made 18 years ago can override the current law.

    As an example, if you carry a 200 kg bike on a rack thatís fitted to your towball, you must deduct that 200 kg from your payload same as if you threw it up on your roof rack.
    Any weight carried by the vehicle anywhere on or in the vehicle is part of the GVM.
    John

    2001 GUII TI 4500 - Now converted to TD42T auto with Nomad valve body

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    mudski (30th July 2019)

  7. #24
    Breadmaker Shaker Plasnart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jff45 View Post
    I donít think a sticker that Nissan made 18 years ago can override the current law.

    As an example, if you carry a 200 kg bike on a rack thatís fitted to your towball, you must deduct that 200 kg from your payload same as if you threw it up on your roof rack.
    Any weight carried by the vehicle anywhere on or in the vehicle is part of the GVM.
    Agree mate. Check my post #20 of this thread and let me know if I'm on the money.
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  8. #25
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    I wonder say if one were to buy a new sticker it would be updated?

  9. #26
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    Hence why we all love Patrols, toughest driveline gear on the old market! Yes, all coily arse end utes and all wagons do absolutely need their bums tower braced but so simple if you follow some great threads on here Phil mate!
    BTW, most broken chassis’s mentioned I know of come from heavily counter levered modern aged poorly designed utes :-(


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  10. #27
    Breadmaker Shaker Plasnart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB View Post
    Hence why we all love Patrols, toughest driveline gear on the old market! Yes, all coily arse end utes and all wagons do absolutely need their bums tower braced but so simple if you follow some great threads on here Phil mate!
    BTW, most broken chassisís mentioned I know of come from heavily counter levered modern aged poorly designed utes :-(


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Simple physics: Cantilevered structural element + load + time = failure in 100% of cases. Jeez, even the Sphinx's nose has fallen off!

    Yes agree tower braces compulsory!
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  12. #28
    Patrol Freak jff45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasnart View Post
    Think I understand. It's complicated issue. Basically as far as I can understand, the trailer cant exceed Gross Trailer Mass (GTM). The vehicle cant exceed GVM. The total combination cant exceed GTM + GVM minus ball weight. Am I right?
    Sorry, I missed this reply. The GTM is actually irrelevant in relation to towing capacity. Itís more of a number to match against the vans axle capacity.

    The vehicle canít exceed GVM. Itís stamped by Nissan on the VIN ID plate but can be overridden by an engineer. I had my 2001 GU upgraded last year from 2960 kg to 3550 kg.
    The hitched van and tug canít exceed GCM. Nissan donít give a GCM so itís accepted as being the GVM + towing capacity.
    My GCM is now 6050 kg because my towing capacity for the auto trans is 2500 kg and that canít be changed.
    John

    2001 GUII TI 4500 - Now converted to TD42T auto with Nomad valve body

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    MB (30th July 2019), Plasnart (30th July 2019)

  14. #29
    Patrol Freak jff45's Avatar
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    Just to add some more confusing info, you canít really get to the calculated or plated GCM if youíre towing a caravan and you use the recommended 10% towball mass.
    The reason for this is that the unhitched van canít weigh more than the towing capacity.

    Example with my Patrol with a GVM of 3550 kg and towing capacity of 2500 kg.
    I load my Patrol to 3300 kg and hitch up my 2500 kg van. The 250 kg towball mass brings the Patrol to its allowed GVM.
    The van now only has a GTM of 2250 kg so the total combination weight that will show on the weighbridge is 5800 kg with both at max allowed load so I canít reach my plated GCM of 6050 kg.

    Hope that makes sense..
    John

    2001 GUII TI 4500 - Now converted to TD42T auto with Nomad valve body

  15. #30
    Hardcore jack's Avatar
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    Have a look at this, it may help explain things. I'm currently dealing with weights before we head off on our delayed trip

    RView-WEIGHTS-1.jpg
    Cheers
    Jack

    2012 Simpson 50th Anniversary Edition.
    WARNING: Towballs used for recoveries can, and do kill people and damage property.

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