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Thread: ADVICE sought PLS... YEP!! ZD30 2003 Nissan Patrol

  1. #11
    Beginner Superjuice2072's Avatar
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    So far... no diesel...

    Hi Fellas,

    Thanks for the ideas... I've run the lift pump for 30-60 minutes and everything is dry. I can't find any leaks on the lines anywhere. The pump keeps "ticking over" every 3 seconds, but no leaks. Chaz, if the pump achieves a pressure of say 4psi, and there are no leaks in the lines, should it continue to tick over, or should it be relying on a one way valve to hold that 4psi pressure, and hence not need to tick over any further?

    As a side note, my auxillary tank got some pin holes in them from rocks, in November. Welded a couple of them, but the tank is still leaking, so will need to fix THAT diesel leak, more...

    Back to the pump, the more I listen to you guys, the more I believe the pump is NOT the problem. Considering I can't find any leaks anywhere from the rear, up the lines on the chassis, past the filter head and water separator, nothing around the injector pump and so on, I am continuing to be disheartened by this because nothing is identifiable... Why can't these things be a little more easy? I am not a mechanic and have no real idea what the heck I am doing... I normally work on people's broken bones & illnesses... not 4WDs...

    I haven't run any spanners over the injector pipes, but can't see or smell any diesel leak in and around the engine bay, even if minor I should be smelling fresh diesel...surely...??

    Big Fletch, thanks for the information... it gives me some hope that I can resolve this issue without paying $4000-8000 for an exchange or new pump, like Nissan and the individual diesel specialists were suggesting. I had to spend $8000 5+ years ago due to water going through the pump.

    I've had a look around the vacuum lines, intercooler pipes, dawes valve etc and can't find any hoses split or disconnected. I plan to check the turbo, at some point when I get time.

    Will continue to give you feedback for all of your suggestions and guidance.

    Thanks guys, I really really REALLY appreciate it, even when frustrated. It keeps giving me a little bit of hope each time. Thanks fellas!! This has been such a mental strain and frustration for months now, particularly when "bucking the trend" or going against suggestions that I should be just replacing the pump and all would be resolved, as the "specialists" have recommended.

    Lindon

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  3. #12
    Expert Chaz's Avatar
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    Hi Lindon,
    Interesting observation. When I turn my ignition on in the morning the lift pump clicks over 4 or 5 times and stops. I can't say that I've heard it click over any more than that unless I start the engine. Also the fuel filter manual plunger should be very hard to push after the lift pump has reached it's pressure limit, so see if the manual pump can be operated with the lift pump running and the engine stopped.

    Another thing is to keep an eye on your oil level. I say this because if there is a small leak and you can't find it, it could be inside the engine from the spill line. This would dilute your oil over time and raise the oil level. The Patrols fuel sysytem sends the spill line back into the injection pump inlet which would push any air back into the IP. This is the reason that we modify the fuel return after fitting an electric lift pump, so if you haven't done that, it may be worth considering. Re-direct the spill line to return to the tank rather than the IP inlet which also helps to keep the IP cooler.

    Cheers,
    Chaz

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    What about a UV dye you can add to the diesel? It might help locate leaks.

    Has anyone tried something like this?

    http://www.rfsales.com.au/ultraviole...ction+Additive

  5. #14
    Beginner Superjuice2072's Avatar
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    PHOTOS to boot...

    Yendor,

    Thanks for the UV suggestion. I left the lift pump going for a number of hours, and double checked all along the fuel lines. I find a very very small weap of diesel from around the filter. Think it was coming from the filter head attachment for fuel OUT... where I had placed a new fitting for ball valve... Thanks for your suggestion mate...

    I've taken the time to pull the intake off the turbo to have a look. The spindle feels firm and fan looks a little beaten, but all looks ok, from my understanding. Attachment photographs show an alloy discolouration on inside of the pipe, where the fan spins, probably due to superheated oil? Would that be right? Or does it look like the fan MIGHT be touching the pipe at times, thus bearings could be on the way out? I don't think so, but checking opinions. I have discussed with a few people on phone and differing views.

    Chaz, I checked the pressure on the manual plunger, which seems quite firm. Not high pressure, because I can still push the plunger, but seems a lot different, compared with when the lift pump is NOT on... so I am fine with that one... As for the oil, you guys may have something there. I changed the oil about 1000 or 2000 klm ago, and it was dead on the mark FULL. Now it is about 2,3 or 4 mm over this mark, despite draining off small quantities of oil from the catch can every now and then. So, maybe there is fuel being spilt into the oil... something of which I don't understand, but will definitely be organising the fuel return, as you had and have suggested, previously. I still need to visualise how to do this properly, which I haven't got my head around yet, but will check out some of your other posts again on the Forum and then see whether I understand.

    Thanks for your help team... I look forward to any further guidance or suggestions, and will keep you up to date to what I find... and do... and the results.

    Lindon
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Expert Chaz's Avatar
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    Lindon,

    Here are bits required to do the fuel return mod.



    This image isn't very clear because the brass tee is behind the main fuel line, but it simply redirects the spill line from the engine and tee's it into the fuel return rather than the fuel inlet. Then you just block off the old spill line connection to the fuel inlet. This should stop any air getting back into the fuel inlet if you have a leaking spill line inside the head.


  7. #16
    Beginner Superjuice2072's Avatar
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    Update and Expectations from Here...

    Hi Everyone,

    Ok... where to start... firstly, please correct any information in here for others wishing to learn, if you feel this content is slightly incorrect as described, for NEW ZD30 owners may need to know some of this stuff... and I wouldn't want them to get a wrong tangent from me...

    Since November (Simpson Desert), I've been having problems, as described previously in this thread. Suffice to say, they have been frustrating and stressful, especially when you have a large fiscal figure hanging over your head ($4000-$8000) to fix the injector pump, and yet I've sensed that there was nothing wrong with the pump. So the pressure has always been, from numerous people and so called specialists, to pull out the injector pump OUT, OVERHAUL, and supposedly, voila... problem fixed!

    As I've said previously, Chaz has been an enormous help to me, so I really want to acknowledge his input into this and the solution I've found for my own vehicle/troubles, and hence the learnings I've received, so to speak...

    November... warning light on dash frequently coming ON... no power... limp home to east coast QLD... Nissan dealership review for $150, suggesting injector pump failure... January second opinion... another "Specialist injector pump 4WD service centre on the Sunshine Coast" $350, suggesting the same thing... February-March reading Patrol forums, talking with people, researching the net, trialling a number of fault finding tricks and YIPEE, the vehicle seems to be running perfectly again... so far, it IS running perfectly... will keep you informed if this changes... otherwise, ALL GOOD!!

    1. Placed a Walbro lift pump to vehicle - Outcome - vehicle was still running poorly frequently to infrequently, but I seemed to have some hope that it might be helping the vehicle overall - Pump has been great for priming the fuel filters and for positively pressurising the fuel lines to check for leaks - found a very small weep of diesel up around the filter head - so fixed - easy
    2. Changed out at least 2 fuel filters since November (1000-3000klm) - first replaced out Wilpena Pound - it looked like it had dirt in the fuel that was removed - not heaps by my experience, but nonetheless, looked like red dirt - replaced second fuel filter yesterday just because I was getting more desperate to fix this vehicle - I initially thought the first filter change would be sufficient, at the time - again, another Nissan fuel filter placed in yesterday - seems to be more red dirt in the filter coming out - no rust - so I may need to replace this fuel filter AGAIN in time to come soon - will see... talking with Chaz, experience suggests that the ZD30 may require MULTIPLE fuel filter changes before problems resolve - so, always be mindful of MORE than one fuel filter change Lindon...
    3. Oil level in sump, and hence on the dipstick, MAY be increasing... not sure yet... but will continue to review... talking with Chaz, if this IS the case, diesel may be leaking into the motor, thus affecting the quality of oil and lubrication, not to mention volume in sump... will need to check oil before starting from now on for a few months, to check whether the oil level is increasing, compared with decreasing... my understanding - fuel goes to injector pump - fuel then to injectors - remaining fuel (now HOT) that is NOT used during combustion returns to fuel INLET side of pump via return line - there is a "spill line" where diesel can make its way into the rocker cover, and importantly, can also suck air back down into the injector pump, thus air going past sensors to give a FALSE reading of injector pump failure... now, my explanation of spill line, etc might be a little naive still, but suffice to say, this is a vital piece of information to know about these ZD30s... thanks Chaz... this can be fixed with a number of inexpensive parts and small modification... and if the fuel continues to leak into the oil level, then at least I know how to fix it in the future, by pulling the rocker cover OFF, and finding the leak, and fixing...
    4. Now, other than the fuel problems as above, and replacing fuel filters, I decided to place a new MAF sensor and new air filter into vehicle anyway... I will continue to mix/match the older air filter and MAF sensor over the next few months to see what happens... these two were still in good condition by the naked eye, but changed them to see whether there was any improvement...
    5. I also had a secondary problem which had to be found... there had never been a lack of boost at any point, until just the other day, so I pull the inlet off the turbo and viewed... ran the vehicle at idle and the turbo fan spun fine... the fins appeared ok and the spindle was firm with NO play... because I have vacuum hoses going everywhere with Dawes boost controller and needle valve, I checked all the lines, hoses, intercooler & hoses, etc... during the mission I found the hoses good and the vacuum pump working, so pulled the Dawes controller apart to find the small stainless ball was stuck against the rear of the housing, due to a very small amount of oil that had migrated into the line, DESPITE the catch can... is there any way to further reduce the amount of oil that comes back into the air intake, other than the catch can I have already?? Don't know... but it pays to check these every now and then and clean them with something... so that fixed the lack of boost and obviously the rise in EGT...

    I realise this is long-winded, but I have found the more I read on the forums, from those who you can trust, the more you can gleam to solve your own problems... thus, I wanted to waffle a bit and expand in some areas to give a flavour of findings, instead of just cold hard fact, which is hard to comprehend and decipher what is happening... feel free to ask questions if you are having problems with your own vehicle, if exactly the same as mine experienced...

    Learning so far:

    1. Change all filters, especially fuel filter - fuel filters may need to be changed multiple times over a short period
    2. It's great to have a new MAF sensor to change IN/OUT to review the present one
    3. It's great having a Walbro lift pump to supply positively pressured fuel to the injector pump and to the filter head
    4. I've had a water separator on the vehicle since last injector pump build... that has been important
    5. I don't have any other fuel filters inline, so that fuel FLOW is NOT restricted to the injector pump
    6. Fuel can leak into the rocker cover... so need to check oil regularly, NOT for low oil, but for HIGH oil levels... if needing fixed, it will be a cheap fix by comparison to an injector pump
    7. Oil can still make its way back into the vacuum hoses and foul the Dawes controller
    8. It's important to have at least one boost gauge and a pyrometer in the ZD30 to monitor the engine, as a bear minimum. These have been invaluable in fault finding the problems too...
    9. Don't believe everything Nissan dealership, mechanics, or specialists say... Talk with the real specialists on the forum here... the ones that really DO know these vehicles inside out... I am a paramedic by trade and still learning a lot about diesels, ZD30s, electrical, etc etc... but if I worked it out over a few months, surely there must also be some other people replacing injector pumps for no need too...???
    10. There are miscellaneous others, which are important also, but figure I best stop talking and get off the forum, before you guys kick me off...

    Hope my waffle may help some other poor fella out there having problems too... I am looking forward to some 4WDing out Landcruiser Park and Glasshouse now... once the rain stops !!

    All the best... I'll post more over the next few months...

    Lindon

    Attachments are just simple visuals of engine bay... nothing exciting... but gives new people something to look at... I really like pictures and visualising layouts...!!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Superjuice2072 For This Useful Post:

    dirtygu (18th March 2013), irishbison (6th April 2021), Yendor (18th March 2012)

  9. #17
    Hardcore macca86's Avatar
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    great thread and I hope you nut it all out. good luck out there
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  10. #18
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    Hi Lindon,

    Thank you for that great post, hopefully you have nailed your problem.

    It would be great (if you have the time) to start another thread in the DIY section detailing the fitting of your lift pump and the modification to the fuel spill/return hose when/if you carry it out.

    I know a lot of people will find this very helpful.

    Also, if you are interested we are having a big meet up in October, would be good to see you there.

    http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...k-Bush-Retreat

    Cheers Rodney

  11. #19
    Patrol God Sir Roofy's Avatar
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    You have put in the hard yards mate
    very informative will be good ready
    for new owners of zd30,s who want to
    do these jobs them selves

    just one thing though sorry but if you
    think that there might be red sand in your
    tank would,nt it be better to take it out
    and flush it out,in the long run it would
    be cheaper than buying filters ,

  12. #20
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    More Details to Come...

    Hi Team,

    Some more information for you...

    Roofy, regarding the "red dirt" and pulling out the tank... you're exactly right... the only reason I haven't done that is because I pulled the rear main tank out a number of years back, and it was a painful job... and don't feel like doing it this time around... at least at the moment... things might change though... thanks for reminding me though, because it might force me into gathering the motivation at some point...

    Big Fletch, when you fixed the banjo seal inside your rocker cover, how did you go about that, and any tips...? Did you consider sealing them altogether, or should that NOT be done for some engineering reason...?

    Yendor, thanks mate... I can't take any credit for the fitting of the lift pump... that all goes to Chaz... he set me on the straight and narrow on that one... his thread on the forum here was perfect for me... as for the October meet... I will check out the link... thanks for the invitation too... makes a fella feel welcome... I might put another thread on the DIY section regarding fix to fuel into the rocker cover, which may be helpful for anybody...??

    More information - Update:

    I've been driving the ZD30 for the past few days, with boost controller set at around 14 PSI on the gauge. I haven't noticed any fuel leaks on the lines. The car is driving well. Still no leaks around the intercooler or pipes. No warning lights coming on. No loss of power. It appears the oil level IS increasing. I will need to pull the rocker cover off and check for leaks, so I continue this thread for the meantime to gather any guidance from you guys as to the following, please:

    1. Can we block these lines into the rocker cover, fullstop, so there is no future chance of fuel into the rocker cover/oil etc...? Or is there an engineering reason why this should NOT be done...?
    2. Any special little tips on this job? I've had the cover off before when doing the timing chain, so have a bit of an idea what I am facing, but would love to seek anybody else's ideas/guidance...

    OK... that's about it for me at present... I am heading to work for a couple of weeks and won't be doing this job until I return... Plan is to take plenty of photographs for anybody that is interested... so feel free to express an interest to see an amateur do this job, and in particular to show any interest whether you want to see any photographs so you can do it yourself... Of course I will subject the process to scrutiny of everyone on here so I don't lead anyone astray...

    Before I forget, anybody make any comment upon the photographs of the turbo they visualised... does the streaking lines on the inside of the pipe adjacent to the fan, look like hot oil impregnation marks, or something dangerous...? Cheers...

    Kind regards,

    Lindon

    Ps. Chaz, thanks again mate... you are a true champion...!!

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