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Thread: What did you do to your Patrol today!

  1. #10061
    Travelling Podologist Cuppa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti's Beast View Post
    Spoke with the rep from Enerdrive today and they have made alterations to their Lithium range. Now the battery comes apart if a cell or BMS dies. The down side is now the battery is no longer water proof but upside is they are now repairable
    If Enerdrive drop ins can be charged with existing battery chargers without a specific lithium charging profile, & with replaceable BMS & cells at reasonable cost I reckon that is a real game changer in the market, and the resulting increase in buyer confidence could well see the market share of Enerdrive (& any other drop in manufacturer who follows suit) increase dramatically, attracting more ‘replacement’ buyers, as well as those who would have bought ‘custom’ lithium packs.
    Last edited by Cuppa; 8th July 2021 at 07:08 AM.

    2006 4.2TDi ex-Telstra Remote area Camper. 425w roof mounted solar, 360Ah Aux batts, BCDC1240, Onboard hot & cold pressurised & filtered water, (25 litre hot water calorifier), ARB fridge, ARB freezer, Built in kitchen, heaps of easy access storage, 240v, 3 Genie exhaust + dynotune, 2 lift, Lovells GVM upgrade, second glovebox, ROH Blaktrak steel wheels, Bridgestone D697's (now Toyo RT's), Redarc gauges/pillarpod, Hema HX-1, Icom 450 CB, dual rear view cameras, Onboard 30amp Victron mains charger, second glovebox, dual seat conversion, Tyredog TPMS, Boss PX7 onboard air with 9 litre tank, 350w inverter, Steel bullbar, Harrop Eaton diff lock (front), Warn winch, Snorkel, Dual spares , 160 litre water tank, 180 litre fuel in two tanks (approx 1200km range) 2010 Tvan Tanami. (incl another 70 litre water tank) with matching wheels/tyres (& 3rd spare)
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  3. #10062
    Patrol God
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppa View Post
    If I bought itech 120's & their internal BMS lasted 4 years & I replaced them each four years at the same cost they would cost me around $4800 for 12 years or $400 per year - essentially 4 times the cost to do the same thing.
    Again, where is this 4 year apparent life-span of the BMS coming from? I don't think the 120X has even been on the market for 4 years to my knowledge? What kills them? Usage? Heat? Corrugations? Lack of use? Wrongly charged?
    Not questioning you, just wondering from a "concerned owner of one of them batteries , point of view" .

    Personally, I believe, the way these lithium's are heading, say in 4 years time the prices will be a lot different... And the other chemistries used in vehicles will be close to being dinosaurs. When I bought my Optima the other week, having a quick chat with the bloke in the battery shop about Patrols, 12V and batteries, he mentioned things are swaying that way really quick... Good or bad? Time will tell.
    Look back 4 years from now. Seeing a lithium in a 4x4 was a unicorn, met with a lot of "WoW' and "Whoasss". Look at the market now. Every company is flogging them out now. And one would like to think that they're getting better and improving .

    But like you said, whatever works for each individuals purpose.
    I sat on the "lithium vs. AGM" fence for ages. What made me pull the trigger was seeing my mates 2 x 120 itechs perform over a week of camping.
    Albeit pricey, it was one of the best 12V decisions I ever personally made in so many aspects. Continuously watching the battery volts when camping over weekend or longer are a thing of the past now.
    2005 TD42TI

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  5. #10063
    Travelling Podologist Cuppa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodge View Post
    Again, where is this 4 year apparent life-span of the BMS coming from? I don't think the 120X has even been on the market for 4 years to my knowledge? What kills them? Usage? Heat? Corrugations? Lack of use? Wrongly charged?
    Not questioning you, just wondering from a "concerned owner of one of them batteries , point of view" .

    Personally, I believe, the way these lithium's are heading, say in 4 years time the prices will be a lot different... And the other chemistries used in vehicles will be close to being dinosaurs. When I bought my Optima the other week, having a quick chat with the bloke in the battery shop about Patrols, 12V and batteries, he mentioned things are swaying that way really quick... Good or bad? Time will tell.
    Look back 4 years from now. Seeing a lithium in a 4x4 was a unicorn, met with a lot of "WoW' and "Whoasss". Look at the market now. Every company is flogging them out now. And one would like to think that they're getting better and improving .

    But like you said, whatever works for each individuals purpose.
    I sat on the "lithium vs. AGM" fence for ages. What made me pull the trigger was seeing my mates 2 x 120 itechs perform over a week of camping.
    Albeit pricey, it was one of the best 12V decisions I ever personally made in so many aspects. Continuously watching the battery volts when camping over weekend or longer are a thing of the past now.
    The 4 year lifespan of the built in BMS is still only anecdotal stuff. I can't warrant it as true or correct, but it is sufficient to make me wary.
    LiFePo4 has been around for well over a decade now. Drop in replacements for less than half that. I can't offer more than that other than as Yeti's Beast has posted, drop in market leader (quality-wise) Enerdrive has now changed to replaceable BMS. Either this is because they have recognised a problem, have recognised people's concerns about potential problems, or both.

    A chap I know builds lithium custom packs professionally believes that life of internal BMS's will be much shorter than the life of the cells for two reasons. One is many use cheap unsophisticated BMS which create a fair bit of heat in the cell balancing process & the other is that the heat has nowhere to go inside a sealed case. Electronics & heat are not a good mix. I'm no expert, but I think he knows what he is talking about (but also recognise that he has a vested interest in non drop in lithium).

    10 years ago I made the decision to stick with AGM's rather than going with lithium because it involved the need for a bigger learning curve than I was prepared to make to put together & maintain my own system. There were lots of debates about what was needed or not needed. The more recent introduction of 'drop in replacements has done a great job of exploiting the market of folk who desired the attributes of Lithium by 'selling' the attributes of what people wanted without the need for the learning curve, but in doing so have often been less than honest about the relatively (compared to external BMS custom lithium packs) restricted attributes of drop ins. (Which are in some ways are still undeniably better than lead acid).

    Enerdrive's recent change (also ReLion Batteries) is a positive sign that drop in lithiums are now just beginning to be what has been been promised since drop ins became a thing (ie? 12000 cycle lifespan). Similar to the introduction of LED lights - the promise of extremely long life is only now eventuating. How many of us have had short lived LED lights in the past - a result mostly of the quality of construction & 'supporting ' electronics.

    My belief, which I can't support any more than I already have is that drop ins over around the past 4 years or so since they were introduced have mainly been a marketing exercise, often by unscrupulous sellers able to make unsubstantiated claims about their products. A 'first generation' of product. I am pretty sure that the next generation of lithium drop ins will match the claims made for the first & expect that consequently my next batteries will be Lithium.
    Last edited by Cuppa; 8th July 2021 at 09:59 PM.

    2006 4.2TDi ex-Telstra Remote area Camper. 425w roof mounted solar, 360Ah Aux batts, BCDC1240, Onboard hot & cold pressurised & filtered water, (25 litre hot water calorifier), ARB fridge, ARB freezer, Built in kitchen, heaps of easy access storage, 240v, 3 Genie exhaust + dynotune, 2 lift, Lovells GVM upgrade, second glovebox, ROH Blaktrak steel wheels, Bridgestone D697's (now Toyo RT's), Redarc gauges/pillarpod, Hema HX-1, Icom 450 CB, dual rear view cameras, Onboard 30amp Victron mains charger, second glovebox, dual seat conversion, Tyredog TPMS, Boss PX7 onboard air with 9 litre tank, 350w inverter, Steel bullbar, Harrop Eaton diff lock (front), Warn winch, Snorkel, Dual spares , 160 litre water tank, 180 litre fuel in two tanks (approx 1200km range) 2010 Tvan Tanami. (incl another 70 litre water tank) with matching wheels/tyres (& 3rd spare)
    A Nomadic Life The Big Trip Blog

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    Got the exhaust manifold fixed I'd been meaning to book it in for the last 12 months. Can't rush these things....
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    What did you do to your Patrol today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppa View Post
    The 4 year lifespan of the built in BMS is still only anecdotal stuff. I can't warrant it as true or correct, but it is sufficient to make me wary.
    LiFePo4 has been around for well over a decade now. Drop in replacements for less than half that. I can't offer more than that other than as Yeti's Beast has posted, drop in market leader (quality-wise) Enerdrive has now changed to replaceable BMS. Either this is because they have recognised a problem, have recognised people's concerns about potential problems, or both.

    A chap I know builds lithium custom packs professionally believes that life of internal BMS's will be much shorter than the life of the cells for two reasons. One is many use cheap unsophisticated BMS which create a fair bit of heat in the cell balancing process & the other is that the heat has nowhere to go inside a sealed case. Electronics & heat are not a good mix. I'm no expert, but I think he knows what he is talking about (but also recognise that he has a vested interest in non drop in lithium).

    10 years ago I made the decision to stick with AGM's rather than going with lithium because it involved the need for a bigger learning curve than I was prepared to make to put together & maintain my own system. There were lots of debates about what was needed or not needed. The more recent introduction of 'drop in replacements has done a great job of exploiting the market of folk who desired the attributes of Lithium by 'selling' the attributes of what people wanted without the need for the learning curve, but in doing so have often been less than honest about the relatively (compared to external BMS custom lithium packs) restricted attributes of drop ins. (Which are in some ways are still undeniably better than lead acid).

    Enerdrive's recent change (also ReLion Batteries) is a positive sign that drop in lithiums are now just beginning to be what has been been promised since drop ins became a thing (ie? 12000 cycle lifespan). Similar to the introduction of LED lights - the promise of extremely long life is only now eventuating. How many of us have had short lived LED lights in the past - a result mostly of the quality of construction & 'supporting ' electronics.

    My belief, which I can't support any more than I already have is that drop ins over around the past 4 years or so since they were introduced have mainly been a marketing exercise, often by unscrupulous sellers able to make unsubstantiated claims about their products. A 'first generation' of product. I am pretty sure that the next generation of lithium drop ins will match the claims made for the first & expect that consequently my next batteries will be Lithium.
    Enerdrive now have removable lids so that replacing cells or BMS is now possible.
    Evolution
    Who knows how long Lithium will be in the market place, they have many perks but still after working in the battery industry for 30 years, call me stubborn or stupid but I think these new chargers are junk and AgM is a bullet proof way to go.
    My charger is an old Boss charger. It’s a transformer type and is over 30 years old now. It will charge anything !


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    Last edited by Yeti's Beast; 9th July 2021 at 11:12 AM.

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    Gave it a well deserved wash.
    Brought this armor all today very happy with it, works well with little effort.

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    Added a pair of DRLs. $30 from Amazon, aluminium frame not plastic.
    Switch on with alternator charge, switch off when side/headlights on.

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    Installed the roof rack and flushed the brake fluid. Then, the light bar that I ordered from 4wheelonline arrived today. I'm planning to install it next week.

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    I actually drove it! First time in weeks.

    These days my time and energy is spent teaching 16 and 17 year olds how to drive.

    This week, I've spent more time on the wrong side of the road than the correct side, and we tried to go around a roundabout anti-clockwise instead of clockwise. lol.
    Winner of 'Best 4 x 4 ' at the 2017 Albany Agricultural Society Inc - Town n Country Ute Muster.

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    Patrol God Avo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DX grunt View Post
    I actually drove it! First time in weeks.

    These days my time and energy is spent teaching 16 and 17 year olds how to drive.

    This week, I've spent more time on the wrong side of the road than the correct side, and we tried to go around a roundabout anti-clockwise instead of clockwise. lol.
    Good to see ya still around mate...
    And sometime anti clockwise is quicker...lol

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    I just bought my lovely wife Jess a new model Patrol, as she deserves it more than me

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