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Thread: Manual Torque Converter Lockup

  1. #11
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    We are talking about an overide that lets you lock the converter as required. In Kris's circuit the unlocking is left to the TCU but it wouldn't be difficult to set it up so you have control of the unlocking as well.

    The protocol programmed into the TCU allows torque converter to lock only when transmission temperature has reached a certain level, speeds are over about 80km/h on light throttle. Not sure if the Patrol auto allows lock up in third gear (how sad that I have an auto Patrol but don't drive it enough to know that!) but definately in fourth gear. Most lock up converters will automatically unlock on trailng (closed) throttle but automatically relock as soon as light throttle is applied assuming all the other conditions (trans temp warm, 80+ km/h, 4th gear) are still met. The converter should unlock cleanly if the throttle is opened more than about 1/3.

    Being turbo charged you are putting a lot more torque through the transmission and converter than they were built for (I know yours has been rebuilt) so the converter lock up clutch may be struggling under the strain. Fitting an unlock switch may be a good idea to ease strain on the converter then only allow it to lock when you are cruising.

    Tony

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    Maxhead (13th November 2011)

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    SUCH IS LIFE Maxhead's Avatar
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    I started to answer your question Scotty but thank goodness Tony beat me to it. I just would have confused you and myself....LOLOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by NissPat View Post
    Can some one confirm this setup is OK. Sorry, just did it in Paint so bit average

    This is just a simplest of mods
    Yep, That is pretty much the simplest way to do it. I never had any hassle with the GQ's certainly (have never done a GU) and the LED was enough to remind me to switch it off.

    Because the GU's will stall if you do forget you can always add in another relay from the Brake Pedal switch to disarm the circuit (same as how Cruise Control interlocks).
    Dolphins are so smart that within a few weeks of captivity, they can train people to stand on the very edge of the pool and throw them fish.

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    Maxhead (13th November 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNOT View Post
    In Kris's circuit the unlocking is left to the TCU but it wouldn't be difficult to set it up so you have control of the unlocking as well.

    Just to clarify the TCU won't be able to unlock the TC unless the switch is turned OFF, that's why a brake cut off control would be good just in case you forget...like me....lolol
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil twin View Post
    Yep, That is pretty much the simplest way to do it. I never had any hassle with the GQ's certainly (have never done a GU) and the LED was enough to remind me to switch it off.

    Because the GU's will stall if you do forget you can always add in another relay from the Brake Pedal switch to disarm the circuit (same as how Cruise Control interlocks).
    Yeah, might have to get the brake disarm circuit as well....Looking at Chaz's circuit it needs a hold relay as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by YNOT View Post
    We are talking about an overide that lets you lock the converter as required. In Kris's circuit the unlocking is left to the TCU but it wouldn't be difficult to set it up so you have control of the unlocking as well.

    The protocol programmed into the TCU allows torque converter to lock only when transmission temperature has reached a certain level, speeds are over about 80km/h on light throttle. Not sure if the Patrol auto allows lock up in third gear (how sad that I have an auto Patrol but don't drive it enough to know that!) but definately in fourth gear. Most lock up converters will automatically unlock on trailng (closed) throttle but automatically relock as soon as light throttle is applied assuming all the other conditions (trans temp warm, 80+ km/h, 4th gear) are still met. The converter should unlock cleanly if the throttle is opened more than about 1/3.

    Being turbo charged you are putting a lot more torque through the transmission and converter than they were built for (I know yours has been rebuilt) so the converter lock up clutch may be struggling under the strain. Fitting an unlock switch may be a good idea to ease strain on the converter then only allow it to lock when you are cruising.

    Tony
    Thanks mate - wow! What a easily understood response!!! I was confused in trying to explain it, let alone ensuring you understood what I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NissPat View Post
    I started to answer your question Scotty but thank goodness Tony beat me to it. I just would have confused you and myself....LOLOL
    And me fella!!!! lmao

    Great answer and something I'm now going to look into - thanks for raising the topic!!!

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    Tony, your transmissions TCU will lock the converter in 3rd gear under the right conditions.

    The reason for the brake switch relay is that the GU will stall if you forget that it’s locked and slow down or stop. I think the most important part of the circuit is the Park/Neutral relay which won’t allow the converter to lock in that state. If it does, you’ll destroy your transmission in a few seconds.

    The Hold In relay is necessary for the momentary switch with brake release. Its only to make it more user friendly and fool proof.
    I’ve setup and designed manual lockup circuits for a few different transmission types (GM TH700R4, BW45 etc) and they all differ slightly, but the principal is much the same. One thing to consider is that after fitting a manual TC lockup system it’s very advisable to increase your line pressure so that you can safely lock it at lower speeds. Our Patrol transmissions generate maximum line pressure at around 1800rpm depending on throttle position, so it isn’t wise to drive below that with the converter locked under considerable load. A Wholesale Auto’s valve body is the best way to increase it or fitting a shift kit helps, but the cheapest and easiest way is to change the transmissions line pressure dropping resistor to one of 1K ohms or more, depending on the shift firmness that you prefer.

    This is an excellent mod for towing and it does more for transmission temperature that anything else that I’ve found.

    NissPat, your circuit will work, but you'll need to be carefull when and how you use it, without the saftey features.
    Last edited by Chaz; 13th November 2011 at 10:34 PM.

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    Maxhead (14th November 2011), twisty (14th November 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Tony, your transmissions TCU will lock the converter in 3rd gear under the right conditions.

    The reason for the brake switch relay is that the GU will stall if you forget that it’s locked and slow down or stop. I think the most important part of the circuit is the Park/Neutral relay which won’t allow the converter to lock in that state. If it does, you’ll destroy your transmission in a few seconds.

    The Hold In relay is necessary for the momentary switch with brake release. Its only to make it more user friendly and fool proof.
    I’ve setup and designed manual lockup circuits for a few different transmission types (GM TH700R4, BW45 etc) and they all differ slightly, but the principal is much the same. One thing to consider is that after fitting a manual TC lockup system it’s very advisable to increase your line pressure so that you can safely lock it at lower speeds. Our Patrol transmissions generate maximum line pressure at around 1800rpm depending on throttle position, so it isn’t wise to drive below that with the converter locked under considerable load. A Wholesale Auto’s valve body is the best way to increase it or fitting a shift kit helps, but the cheapest and easiest way is to change the transmissions line pressure dropping resistor to one of 1K ohms or more, depending on the shift firmness that you prefer.

    This is an excellent mod for towing and it does more for transmission temperature that anything else that I’ve found.

    NissPat, your circuit will work, but you'll need to be carefull when and how you use it, without the saftey features.
    Thanks Chaz, great info as usual..

    After thinking about it for a second or two I decided I might as well go the whole hog and build in the safety features. I've got the 1k line pressure dropping resistor so it should compliment this nicely.

    Cheers.
    Kris
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    WARNING: Towballs used for recoveries can, and do kill people and damage property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNOT View Post

    Being turbo charged you are putting a lot more torque through the transmission and converter than they were built for

    Tony
    Are you sure that the auto box on the CRD is a weak one?

    354Nm is tuned into the auto CRD engine while the manual has a bit more.

    This would mean that it is 100% essential to do a transmission upgrade if you are going to use a chip & exhaust and you tow a heavy van.

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