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Thread: gas injection for td42 diesel

  1. #1
    Beginner proyds64's Avatar
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    gas injection for td42 diesel

    Hi,
    does anyone know how much and who does this in Rockhampton.
    i have a 1988 GQ td42 diesel patrol, and i would like to install a gas injection system in it as it appears that all the literature indicates that this would be a great saving and boost the performance overall. i'd really like to know what you think and if you have any information.

    Cheers

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  3. #2
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    Although I've never had a car with diesel/gas, or taken a converted car for a drive, as a mechanic (and former automotive LPG fitter) diesel gas makes a lot of sense. By adding a small (about 20 or 30%) of LPG to the diesel combustion process, the burn of fuel inside the cylinder is so much more complete and cleaner.

    A typical diesel engine only burns about 75 to 80% of the fuel injected into the cylinder, the rest goes out the exhaust as particulate emissions (or soot), or condenses on the cylinder walls and eventually ends up in the engine oil. Which explains why diesel engine oil goes black.

    When you add the small amount of LPG, the diesel burn rate is closer to 97%. The LPG works as an accelerant, causing the diesel to burn more quickly. More fuel being burnt means more power, lower particulate/soot emmissions, and cleaner engine oil. With more of the fuel being burnt in the cylinder, exhaust temperatures often come down too. Fuel economy can improve, but often people just get used to having the extra power for climbing hills etc, so economy remains much the same.

    Because you only need 20 to 30% LPG to achieve all this, the gas tank only needs to be about 30% of the size of you diesel tank. If you've got a 145l long range diesel tank, that means you only need a 50l (usable) gas tank. Small tanks are cheaper and much easier to package under the car.

    It all just makes sense!


    Some other points raised by Peter Kitchener from Redlands 4X4 (Brisbane Bayside)

    He does not like putting LPG cylinders under 4WD's, the cylinders are too vunereble to damage. His only exception to this, is when the vehicle is being used for TOURING ONLY.
    Unlike petrol LPG conversions where the main fuel tank (between the chassis rails behind the back axle) is usually removed and replaced with an LPG tank, diesel gas conversions usually keep the original fuel tank. So another location needs to be found for the LPG tank.
    Peter's prefered location is in the cargo area. He is waiting for a new type of tank to be approved for use in Australia. These new tanks will measure approximately 1m X 1m X 100 to 150mm high, and should fit neatly in the bottom of the cargo area as a false floor.

    There are different types of diesel gas systems out there, some expensive, others not so expensive. In short, you get what you pay for. The less expensive systems are not as well controlled, and therefore better suited to constant load engines, gensets etc. The better systems are all processor controlled and much more accurate and tuneable.
    The cheaper systems can, under some circumstances, potentially cause engine damage. The majority of diesel gas systems use vapour withdrawal, where the LPG is drawn out of the top of the tank as a vapour. The risk with that is if the liquid LPG in the tank is splashing around (very likely off road), that some liquid could be drawn off into the fuel (service) line. If that liquid were to make it to the engine, it could cause a hydraulic lock in the engine, as liquid does not compress.
    The systems Peter fits have an LPG converter to stop this from happening. LPG converters are used to convert liquid LPG to a vapour. His converters do not require connection to the cooling system (with the added complexity that involves), because most of the time the LPG going through the converter is already a vapour.

    *Side note; Liquid withdrawal systems require engine coolant running through them all the time to stop them freezing up (due to the latent heat of evaporation as LPG expands from a liquid to a vapour). Diesel gas systems can get away with having vapour withdrawal, as the LPG only makes up about 30% of the engines required fuel supply.

    There would be no benefit to fitting diesel gas to a common rail engine, with the LPG technology currently available.The automotive LPG industry lags behind petrol and diesel fuel system technology by a few years. For that reason, Peter does not fit or recommend fitting diesel gas to late model (about 2008 onwards) diesels with common rail fuel systems.

    On the other hand, engines like the TD42T benefit greatly from diesel gas. Naturally aspirated engines do not gain as much as their turbo (or super)charged counterparts, as they are not able to supply as much oxygen to the cylinders.

    Tony
    Last edited by YNOT; 14th August 2011 at 08:17 AM.

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  5. #3
    Patrol God Finly Owner's Avatar
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    I was talking to someone who had gas on diesel patrol comp truck. He said the way he's is set up saves fuel cost but doesn't really gain boost. He said that there are three different ways of setting Gas/Diesel systems. I'll try to get this right.

    First is to use diesl to start vehicle and flick to gas.

    Second and third were similar but must be What Tony(YNOT) is talking about gas and diesel together but differen systems.

    Sorry maybe this will prompt more explanation and opions of systems. Tony knows his stuff.

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    Gday mate, Im also in Rockhampton and have diesel gas on my td42. I bought my car in Brisbane where the previous owner got it fitted by Team Green Autogas. If you have any Q's or want a look feel free to ask as have a fair understanding of how my system works. Cheers, Bevan
    Last edited by GU89; 22nd August 2010 at 08:50 PM.
    4.2 litres of forced induction magic

  7. #5
    Patrol God Finly Owner's Avatar
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    Team Green Autogas is in Slacks Creek (brisbane area) I believe FYI.

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    thanks guys for the information

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    Finlyowner,
    Diesel gas works by as the name suggests, utilising diesel and gas as fuels that both run the engine. You cannot start the truck on diesel and then switch to gas only. The gas as some one else suggested is a catlyst that ensures a greater burn rate by the diesel fuel. I have a dgas set-up and it makes a big difference in terms of power and keeping the internals clean. Enconomy comes in on the back of using less throttle due to more torque and power available to the engine through the lpg and diesel mix. Would I fit it again........nah I would go for a diesel chip.

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    hi all, I am new to this site and would like to hear from anyone who has a similar vehicle with LPG on it, our vehicle is a October 2004 ST 4.2td, modifications so far have been long range tanks, snorkel, 3 inch SS exhaust system, boosted to 11psi with appropriate gauges, we are caravaners. I have had experience with LPG and dual fuel having run it on 2 Holden vehicles for 20 years, one of which we still own which I bought new in 1972, a HQ 308 v8, my local mechanical shop does not think that LPG is any good for our vehicle, but having read comments from various sources I wonder why.

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    Same here, ive read the theory and would love to hear people that have it installed, love it? hate it? Whats the reality compared to the spiel ?

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  13. #10
    Beginner lotus's Avatar
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    my '93 GQ patrol has a TD42 engine fitted with this system ... www.d-gas.com.au.

    apart from a couple of probs that popped up early through sloppy/thoughtless install, i'm quite happy with the results. my biggest reason for getting the system installed was environmental, in that the majority of particulate matter is burned and the exhaust emissions are much cleaner than your standard old '93 diesel engine. it cost about $3,800 i think ... and $3,000 of that was covered in government rebates [$2,000 federal + $1,000 state or vice versa].

    i am probs a little different from many with the system, as i deliberately wanted a non-turbo [naturally aspirated] 4x4 ... the system set up in my engine was set to inject gas at 1,000 and 2,150 rpm. as tony has said above, i probs don't notice as many benifits in power as if i ran a turbo, but as i have also said above, my primary concern was my environmental responsibility. i believe i have seen slight improvements in both power and economy, but they are not marked improvements. it was also difficult to guage power/economy benefits at the beginning, as before the install i drove without a 900kg camper trailer, and straight after the install we headed off on our trip with the trailer attached.

    i still feel good about having it ... it's just a shame i can't find anyone to service it here in hobart.

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