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23rd August 2020, 08:52 PM
#1
Micro Short Circuiting on Solar Panels
Soooo....
Has anyone had this happen on their solar panels before? The squiggly lines across the solar cells. It doesn't look good, but do you know what it is and what causes it?
I have had it suggested that this is a micro short circuit, which sort of makes sense, given it looks vaguely like a lightning strike, but in reality I have no idea.
There is a bit of water on the panels too, so ignore that. I had just washed everything after a trip when I noticed the weird lines.
20200822_100813.jpg20200822_100818.jpg
Between Patrols ATM. Had a beaut GU with 6.5 Chev TD. Next is a GU ute with a 4.5 litre Cummins conversion and a camper on the back.
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23rd August 2020 08:52 PM
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Circuit advertisement
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23rd August 2020, 10:45 PM
#2
Expert
All of my solar panels end up with those appearances ... they still work enough to keep my happy
2008 CRD Auto Wagon
Factory snorkel, flashlube catchcan pro, 3" manta exhaust, hpd boost controller, dyno-tuned & egr deleted
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23rd August 2020, 10:55 PM
#3
Can you detect a loss of output? Never seen anything like this before either.
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23rd August 2020, 10:55 PM
#4
Patrol Freak
how old are the panels?
looks to me like when you crack a circuit board, but not break it completely
do you have a gap between the roof and the bottom of the panels?
Tidy Whitey - 99 GU TD42Ti - Diesel Gas, (GUIV Turbo & Intercooler 8Lb boost), 33" Micky T's Baja MTZ's, Dual Batt's, Cargo Barrier, rear draws, HID Super Oscars, winch, Grinch & witch attached and more goodies to come
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24th August 2020, 07:46 AM
#5
The panels are about 3 years old. Set up with a gap between roof and panel of about an inch. I've been suspicious of a drop in output but haven't measured it as yet. I think that will be today's job. I was doing a fair amount of driving recently and not relying on the panels so didn't notice it as much as I might if I was camped up. Normally though, the panels will have me fully re-charged by say 10am if in good sunlight. On a couple of days I noticed it was still charging at 11am and through till nearly lunch time, but didn't think much of it as I was running the fridge as a freezer and overnight the battery would have had a lower SOC. Will take a closer look at output today.
Between Patrols ATM. Had a beaut GU with 6.5 Chev TD. Next is a GU ute with a 4.5 litre Cummins conversion and a camper on the back.
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24th August 2020, 08:05 AM
#6
Travelling Podologist
Have re-posted on a friend's forum where I hope to obtain an experienced solar opinion. Will get back to you if/when I hear. Haven't see this before myself.
2006 4.2TDi ex-Telstra Remote area Camper. 425w roof mounted solar, 360Ah Aux batts, BCDC1240, Onboard hot & cold pressurised & filtered water, (25 litre hot water calorifier), ARB fridge, ARB freezer, Built in kitchen, heaps of easy access storage, 240v, 3” Genie exhaust + dynotune, 2” lift, 3900kg GVM upgrade, second glovebox, ROH Blaktrak steel wheels, Bridgestone D697's (now Toyo RT's), Redarc gauges/pillarpod, Hema HX-1, Icom 450 CB, dual rear view cameras, Onboard 30amp Victron mains charger, second glovebox, dual seat conversion, TPMS, Boss PX7 onboard air with 9 litre tank, 350w inverter, Steel bullbar, Harrop Eaton diff lock (front), Warn winch, Snorkel, Dual spares , 160 litre water tank, 180 litre fuel in two tanks (approx 1200km range) 2010 Tvan Tanami. (incl another 70 litre water tank) with matching wheels/tyres (& 3rd spare)
A Nomadic Life (Blog)
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24th August 2020, 09:55 AM
#7
Travelling Podologist
Ben, 2 responses so far. They refer to the issue as a 'solar worm. Uncertain as to cause, but pics look virtually identical to yours.
One from a friend who reported same concerns as you back in 2017. Measuring showed no drop in output at the time. He reports that 3 years on the panels are still working fine & producing the same rated output. These were bought from Low Energy developments & produced by TN Solar. Co with the following label on them.
screenshot_484.jpg
One example of a number to show the 'worm' on his panels
screenshot_485.jpg
Second from another friend who recently bought a job lot of cheap used panels ($14 each for 250w 24v panels). He commented "About half had that 'worm' on them. Some really bad. Testing them in bright sunlight showed very little drop in performance at all".
2006 4.2TDi ex-Telstra Remote area Camper. 425w roof mounted solar, 360Ah Aux batts, BCDC1240, Onboard hot & cold pressurised & filtered water, (25 litre hot water calorifier), ARB fridge, ARB freezer, Built in kitchen, heaps of easy access storage, 240v, 3” Genie exhaust + dynotune, 2” lift, 3900kg GVM upgrade, second glovebox, ROH Blaktrak steel wheels, Bridgestone D697's (now Toyo RT's), Redarc gauges/pillarpod, Hema HX-1, Icom 450 CB, dual rear view cameras, Onboard 30amp Victron mains charger, second glovebox, dual seat conversion, TPMS, Boss PX7 onboard air with 9 litre tank, 350w inverter, Steel bullbar, Harrop Eaton diff lock (front), Warn winch, Snorkel, Dual spares , 160 litre water tank, 180 litre fuel in two tanks (approx 1200km range) 2010 Tvan Tanami. (incl another 70 litre water tank) with matching wheels/tyres (& 3rd spare)
A Nomadic Life (Blog)
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24th August 2020, 11:53 AM
#8
Thanks Cuppa, much appreciated. The 'worm' seems to be only on two cells so far on one of the two panels. Another bit of feedback I received says that the panels could be on the way out. It will be interesting to measure the output and see if there is any difference to the ratings.
Between Patrols ATM. Had a beaut GU with 6.5 Chev TD. Next is a GU ute with a 4.5 litre Cummins conversion and a camper on the back.
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24th August 2020, 01:55 PM
#9
Travelling Podologist
Originally Posted by
FNQGU
Thanks Cuppa, much appreciated. The 'worm' seems to be only on two cells so far on one of the two panels. Another bit of feedback I received says that the panels could be on the way out. It will be interesting to measure the output and see if there is any difference to the ratings.
Given that it will be difficult to replicate the conditions under which the rating is made, it probably makes sense to just measure the relative output of both panels to compare.
2006 4.2TDi ex-Telstra Remote area Camper. 425w roof mounted solar, 360Ah Aux batts, BCDC1240, Onboard hot & cold pressurised & filtered water, (25 litre hot water calorifier), ARB fridge, ARB freezer, Built in kitchen, heaps of easy access storage, 240v, 3” Genie exhaust + dynotune, 2” lift, 3900kg GVM upgrade, second glovebox, ROH Blaktrak steel wheels, Bridgestone D697's (now Toyo RT's), Redarc gauges/pillarpod, Hema HX-1, Icom 450 CB, dual rear view cameras, Onboard 30amp Victron mains charger, second glovebox, dual seat conversion, TPMS, Boss PX7 onboard air with 9 litre tank, 350w inverter, Steel bullbar, Harrop Eaton diff lock (front), Warn winch, Snorkel, Dual spares , 160 litre water tank, 180 litre fuel in two tanks (approx 1200km range) 2010 Tvan Tanami. (incl another 70 litre water tank) with matching wheels/tyres (& 3rd spare)
A Nomadic Life (Blog)
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24th August 2020, 03:25 PM
#10
Travelling Podologist
And another response, this from the chap I'd been hoping would reply. He runs a business building & installing lithium batteries & their associated solar systems. I had not mentioned any possibility of 'arcing'. This is his response to seeing your photos.
The wiggly lines are just what they look like, an arc between the grid wires in those modules. If you look real close, you can see the bubble of copper built up each side if the arc line. If the arc repeats too often in the same place, those tiny threads actually get burnt through and module loss starts to become panel output loss. The output voltage open circuit will be the same as the specs on the back of the panel say, but the short circuit current starts to drop off the more damage there is in any module.
The cause, generally poor wiring practices, either panels connected in parallel with under size cable and each panel added in to this under size wire. eg. 6mm auto cable can carry the output of a 150w 12v panel, not 2 or 3 panels all paralleled into the same single run of 6mm auto cable.
The problem starts with the panel getting hot because it can't get all its output through the wire because of a resistance build up, the weakest modules get the hottest in the panel that suffers with the most resistance, generally the panels further down the string. Add a larger capacity panel to the same parallel string and real problems start to emerge.
When the solar controller determines the battery is full or needs to drop to a low voltage such as the step from boost or bulk charge down to float charge. The only way it can do that is to stop accepting any output/input from the solar. The solar array voltage now climbs to open circuit voltage, the hottest modules have the lowest output so therefore the lowest push back against current coming in rather than current going out, so the module becomes a heater and finally an arc runs across the module trying to reduce the current and voltage, a short circuit. This path is now slightly burnt so a carbon track is laid, this makes the path for an arc to travel down easier than the first time, and so the arc continues to burn across the module until it fails.
This is why blocking diodes were included in all earlier built solar panels. When domestic roof top solar started, panels were connected in a single series string to build the voltage and not the current. Bypass diodes remained but the blocking diode became redundant resulting in a cost saving for the panel manufacturer and the buyer being none the wiser.
The arc across the panel is the end result, same thing happens when more than 1 series string is connected into the MPPT controller, the high output from one string reverse flows into the string with a shaded panel, then the same process as mentioned about happens.
My reading of your situation then Ben, combining the info from all sources, is that the panel is on the way out, but it could take potentially a long time to fail & let you down. If feasible fitting a blocking diode inside it's rear junction box, may well prevent any further deterioration, as might increasing the thickness of copper in the wire between panels & to the the regulator.
Last edited by Cuppa; 24th August 2020 at 03:37 PM.
2006 4.2TDi ex-Telstra Remote area Camper. 425w roof mounted solar, 360Ah Aux batts, BCDC1240, Onboard hot & cold pressurised & filtered water, (25 litre hot water calorifier), ARB fridge, ARB freezer, Built in kitchen, heaps of easy access storage, 240v, 3” Genie exhaust + dynotune, 2” lift, 3900kg GVM upgrade, second glovebox, ROH Blaktrak steel wheels, Bridgestone D697's (now Toyo RT's), Redarc gauges/pillarpod, Hema HX-1, Icom 450 CB, dual rear view cameras, Onboard 30amp Victron mains charger, second glovebox, dual seat conversion, TPMS, Boss PX7 onboard air with 9 litre tank, 350w inverter, Steel bullbar, Harrop Eaton diff lock (front), Warn winch, Snorkel, Dual spares , 160 litre water tank, 180 litre fuel in two tanks (approx 1200km range) 2010 Tvan Tanami. (incl another 70 litre water tank) with matching wheels/tyres (& 3rd spare)
A Nomadic Life (Blog)
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