OUR VIDEOS GALLERY MEMBER SPONSORSHIP VENDOR SPONSORSHIP

User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: The Outback Comms Chat Thread.

  1. #11
    Expert
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    141
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 62 Times in 45 Posts
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I call BULLSHIT!

    "Using Wi-Fi signalling to reach up to 25KM"
    Under current ACMA licensing and the physical size of that unit, several hundred meters at best for current Legal and safe RF power limits.

    To travel long distances, you need power frequencies like VHF or HF. UHF and microwave is NOT for long distance comms (unless using fixed, high gain antennas with LoS (Line of Sight)).

    Before going to remote areas alone, you take a EPIRB and/or have HF radio or SAT phone.




    You can also get legal high-gain mobile network repeaters from Cel-Fi shortly (Cel-Fi GO) that will enable longer range comms in fringe areas. http://cel-fi.com.au/cel_fi_go_repeater.html

    Just for the record, eBay (or any other source) bought repeaters from anywhere other than Cel-Fi are illegal!

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many

     

  3. #12
    I am he, fear me the evil twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    W.A. (wandering aust)
    Posts
    6,172
    Thanks
    859
    Thanked 6,243 Times in 3,125 Posts
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LostBenji View Post
    I call BULLSHIT!

    "Using Wi-Fi signalling to reach up to 25KM"
    Under current ACMA licensing and the physical size of that unit, several hundred meters at best for current Legal and safe RF power limits.

    To travel long distances, you need power frequencies like VHF or HF. UHF and microwave is NOT for long distance comms (unless using fixed, high gain antennas with LoS (Line of Sight)).

    Before going to remote areas alone, you take a EPIRB and/or have HF radio or SAT phone.




    You can also get legal high-gain mobile network repeaters from Cel-Fi shortly (Cel-Fi GO) that will enable longer range comms in fringe areas. http://cel-fi.com.au/cel_fi_go_repeater.html

    Just for the record, eBay (or any other source) bought repeaters from anywhere other than Cel-Fi are illegal!
    You might need to do a bit more research before you scream "BULLSHIT" quite so loudly mate...

    Yes, the Bullshit comment aside, the majority of your post is correct in broad terms and totally agree with the illegal repeaters comments.

    This system is not a repeater and the application is for nil coverage not fringe boosting.

    My understanding is very limited as I have no 'inside' info only an interest due to it's potential for some of my work sites is:
    The initial research is world first based at Flinders Uni and first successful field trials were about 4 years ago
    The system uses wi-fi and UHF (probably to get the range as you correctly mention) to connect and runs off technology developed by researchers who won a 1/4 million dollar award recently.
    The system was initiallly an idea to allow peer to peer comms on mobile phones in an area where no infrastructure exists or has failed.

    Again I stress only as far as I understand it, an Android App allows voice to other meshed phones in range and the system will also store and transfer data and messages from phone to phone without the need for any carrier backbone or connectivity but if a phone does get within range of a Tower or suitable Base the App will then "hop" the data/message onto the Telco network.

    The disaster relief and emergency service organisations are all very interested and I think it has already been deployed with the Red Cross in teh pacific somewhere or other

    Some bloody smart fellas we have here in Oz eh
    Last edited by the evil twin; 21st May 2016 at 06:03 PM.
    Dolphins are so smart that within a few weeks of captivity, they can train people to stand on the very edge of the pool and throw them fish.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to the evil twin For This Useful Post:

    bigguwesty (21st May 2016), MudRunnerTD (22nd May 2016)

  5. #13
    Expert
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    141
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 62 Times in 45 Posts
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey ET,
    I take what you have said with much respect. Where I call the BS is the simple physics and fundamentals in play.

    The device in the video measures roughly 10 inches long and around 3.5 inches in diameter. This means any antenna will have to be either rather small and low gain or be using much higher frequencies as indicated in the promo video, Wi-Fi which uses microwave frequencies of the 2.4GHz or 5GHz ISM bands. These currently have a legal power of 4W EIRP (very rough here as there much lower limits in some of these spectrum's). The device will need to have an omnidirectional antenna which leads to very low gains and makes them rather inefficient. 1/4 wave, maybe 1/2 wave at best for 2.4GHz which means to do the range of 25KM, you don't want to be anywhere near it as those are big power levels. There is the other requirement; others of these to being in range at some stage. So in some areas where you may not see another person, let alone a Toyota packing one of these, for days, I hope your message is not important.

    UHF, nope, it lacks the carry of VHF or HF. Power limits low as well. A mine site will already run a comms system as would any other operation. VHF low-band, 25W radios on 2dBi whip can do over 150 to a repeater or well over 100 to another vehicle.


    Please, don't get me wrong, anything to improve comms in the weeds is good but lets not miss the white elephants sitting in the room.
    HF, it has been around for longer than anyone reading these forums. Radios pack 100W and even with low-gain whip, short-path comms to anywhere in Aus is possible. Long-path with conditions as well.
    SAT phones are not cheap but if installed or deployed correctly (roof-top antenna, not crappy omni on end of phone) works very well.
    Emergencies, 406MHz EPIRB, hit the tit, you will be found pretty quickly, especially if GPS equipped.

    Anyway, I have said my piece.

  6. #14
    Patrol God bigguwesty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Mount Gambier, SA
    Posts
    14,194
    Thanks
    15,334
    Thanked 4,313 Times in 2,998 Posts
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well it is an awesome idea..
    As mentioned before I think the 25km range is its down fall though..
    I think you'd have to be very lucky to land a car with another unit in it within 25km.
    And it could take some days for that message to reach mobile service to pass the data on..

    By all means it has some awesome potential.. hopefully it gets pushed..
    It's pretty cool..

    Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk
    Cheers
    Kallen Westbrook

  7. #15
    I am he, fear me the evil twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    W.A. (wandering aust)
    Posts
    6,172
    Thanks
    859
    Thanked 6,243 Times in 3,125 Posts
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I think you guys are maybe missing the point of this gear...

    Your existing mobile phone has a range of up to 20 odd K's
    I have a couple of telemetry sites that are even further out where Telstra have Boomer Cells.
    Is that a downfall?
    Obviously not because there are zillions of the things
    The downfall is that a mobile currently needs a Carrier connection to work or it cannot even call the dude sitting in the car next to you.
    This system takes away that need for a Carrier Cell.
    The app and the technology package allows the phones to network amongst themselves.

    This isn't a Toyota thing nor is it solely for outback Oz.
    Specifically to the the outback SA trial it is just another use that the researchers hypothesised and have now proven.
    Toyota are the vehicle participants of the trial and it could have been Nissan, Mitsi or anyone.
    Toyota are now getting a bit of ROI by advertising etc.
    If it goes mainstream anyone can use it, it is just that Toyo put some bikkies up.
    It may go commercial or stay as a tool for disaster/emergency relief or it may fizz

    HF is all but dead, the equipment is expensive, bulky, difficult to install, power hungry and needs a licence and some expertise to use.
    (I have Marine Licences for work and also Land Mobile HF licences and run a Codan NGT in my Trol and have been known to lug around a HF manpack for SES on occasion and they are freakin' heavy)

    Satphones are expensive and even more so to subscribe currently but rates may get slightly cheaper.
    (I have an Irridium I got for $200 and use the Telstra $10 a month access and call charges are about $2 per 30 seconds)

    Epirbs do not allow peer to peer comms

    Anyway, too early to call I s'pose
    Dolphins are so smart that within a few weeks of captivity, they can train people to stand on the very edge of the pool and throw them fish.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to the evil twin For This Useful Post:

    bigguwesty (22nd May 2016)

  9. #16
    Expert
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    141
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 62 Times in 45 Posts
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds a lot like the tech is trying to "Enable" ill-prepared people to travel in remote areas with a false sense of security.

    For all that it is going to achieve, 2-way radio has beaten it already beaten it.

    25KM range out of device that small and no external antenna.... Nope.

  10. #17
    Moderator MudRunnerTD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    14,104
    Thanks
    9,885
    Thanked 10,435 Times in 5,426 Posts
    Mentioned
    198 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Thank you to everyone in this thread! Some very smart guys in the room.

    I am going to change the name of the thread to "Outback Coms chat thread"
    Its a Nissan! =====> Its a Keeper!! ....... Got a TD42 in it BONUS!! ....... I'm a lucky bugger! I've got 2 of em!
    Check out my Toy --> MudRunnerTD's GQ From the Ground Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Dung Beetle View Post
    Wish it was Nissan though, Toyotas just can't keep up with the Pootrol pace.
    The only good thing about an 80 series is..... the front end?? Wrong!!, the Engine?? Wrong!! the Full Time 4WD system?? Wrong!! Its the NissanPatrol.com.au stubby holder fitted over the transfer lever.
    WARNING: Towballs used for recoveries can, and do kill people and damage property.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to MudRunnerTD For This Useful Post:

    bigguwesty (22nd May 2016)

  12. #18
    I am he, fear me the evil twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    W.A. (wandering aust)
    Posts
    6,172
    Thanks
    859
    Thanked 6,243 Times in 3,125 Posts
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LostBenji View Post
    Sounds a lot like the tech is trying to "Enable" ill-prepared people to travel in remote areas with a false sense of security.

    For all that it is going to achieve, 2-way radio has beaten it already beaten it.

    25KM range out of device that small and no external antenna.... Nope.
    Serval is not about Outback Travel, that is just a very small spin off from the ideals of the technology.
    Probably only even evolved because the dudes are Australian and we have an Outback.
    If it had of been European they would never even have imagined that use I reckon.

    But seeing as how Outback travel is what triggered the thread the advantages of this technology for outback users are:
    Your useless mobile phone is no longer useless anymore but becomes another viable tool
    Serval does not require both stations to be on the same band, frequency and manned
    Serval will do voice
    Serval will store and forward messaging
    Serval will geotag

    Over here in WA we have totally shit mobile coverage, not even the highways have acceptable levels.
    We cannot travel from Perth to Geraldton or Albany on the national highway with coverage all the way
    Past Gerro and Albany you can travel on National Route 1 with maybe 50% connectivity.
    Travel the bitumen back roads and that will be hours, travel the dirt and it will be days

    Perth to Albany or Gerro, of each 100 cars and trucks that you see I estimate 99% will have a mobile phone, maybe 25% will have a two way (trucks, farmers and 4X's) and less than 5% will have a Satphone or EPIRB

    My most recent breakdown in central Oz 2 years ago I used Satphone and finally when the recovery mob (no HF, Satphone and UHF only) got in range UHF.

    I did interact on HF with VKS737 Adelaide as an advisory but only because I have HF as a social tool and hobby and was therefore logged on to them anyway.

    Bottom line, Serval is about enabling low cost Cell phone comms on an international level not just the outback of Oz

    http://blogs.flinders.edu.au/flinder...erval-project/

    http://www.servalproject.org/

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...lproject&hl=en
    Last edited by the evil twin; 22nd May 2016 at 02:57 PM.
    Dolphins are so smart that within a few weeks of captivity, they can train people to stand on the very edge of the pool and throw them fish.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •