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25th November 2013, 02:07 PM
#11
Hardcore
Sorry westy, but look at the OP, it does NOT describe what was hoped to be achieved by installing the foam, nor does it mention anything to suggest what you said above "we're trying to achieve sound dampening", so how am i supposed to know that ?
I think everyone will agree, going from the first sentence written, it definitely gives the impression audio acoustics are high on the agenda ?
Originally Posted by
sil3nt_dr3ams
Well I must admit it was a painful boring job. But the results are so unreal. My subs and speakers come alive. Driving down the road the world is outside of your car.
My suggestion on dynamat to cover the inner door skin holes, is 100% with regard to car audio, and has nothing to do with external sound dampening, or road noise reduction, it is purely about creating a semi sealed enclosure (or speaker box) out of your front doors, along with yes, as you say dampening the panels vibrations, and helps to remove any resonance that is typicaly evident in thin metal boxes (your doors).
Is exactly the same principle as why you "dont" build speaker boxes out of thin metal (like your door skin) and cardboard (your door trim thats sealing the enclosure), and instead, use a rigid dense material (most often this is wood), if the OP has gone as far as he has, a small amount of effort sealing up the internal skin, will have a greater improvement with regard to his speakers, much more than just covering the outer skin alone.
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25th November 2013 02:07 PM
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25th November 2013, 05:05 PM
#12
Patrol God
Yea fair call. All assumptions..
I think that foam will be fine for doors. Sure it's not water proof, but it won't hold water like a sponge. And it being weighted will serve the same cause as dynamat on the outer skin.
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The Following User Says Thank You to BigRAWesty For This Useful Post:
04OFF (25th November 2013)
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25th November 2013, 05:38 PM
#13
Expert
Originally Posted by
04OFF
Sorry westy, but look at the OP, it does NOT describe what was hoped to be achieved by installing the foam, nor does it mention anything to suggest what you said above
"we're trying to achieve sound dampening", so how am i supposed to know that ?
I think everyone will agree, going from the first sentence written, it definitely gives the impression audio acoustics are high on the agenda ?
My suggestion on dynamat to cover the inner door skin holes, is 100% with regard to car audio, and has nothing to do with external sound dampening, or road noise reduction, it is purely about creating a semi sealed enclosure (or speaker box) out of your front doors, along with yes, as you say dampening the panels vibrations, and helps to remove any resonance that is typicaly evident in thin metal boxes (your doors).
Is exactly the same principle as why you "dont" build speaker boxes out of thin metal (like your door skin) and cardboard (your door trim thats sealing the enclosure), and instead, use a rigid dense material (most often this is wood), if the OP has gone as far as he has, a small amount of effort sealing up the internal skin, will have a greater improvement with regard to his speakers, much more than just covering the outer skin alone.
Hey mate,
lol lets move on. This entire exercise to some extent we all are covering new ground. I picked this stuff up at work for nothing with no clear intention just I was impressed with it, I spoke to the architect well one of them it was a large shopping center and he loves the stuff. Then westy's thread about same area got me thinking. More and more I looked into it well I just had to give it a go. My sound system in the patrol had a few very simple rules it was not to cost much and was not to take up usable room.
04OFF I'm not sure if your familiar with my other threads but take 5 minutes to flick thru http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...rical-install. this is not my first stab at this kind of thing.
I'm not chasing a perfect sound or am I going to keep trying to improve the sound system. It cranks thats all want, this stuff I've just used happin to tick more boxes combination of sound deadening and adding a whole new level of acoustics. Now i'm trying to work out a way to test its performance so i can give you guys some kind of data to compare it to other products.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sil3nt_dr3ams For This Useful Post:
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25th November 2013, 07:26 PM
#14
Hardcore
Originally Posted by
Westy's Accessories
Yea fair call. All assumptions..
I think that foam will be fine for doors. Sure it's not water proof, but it won't hold water like a sponge. And it being weighted will serve the same cause as dynamat on the outer skin.
It could be even better than dynamat or many other products for its sound properties im sure, but IMO, it defies logic to use something that could trap water, in a steel area that gets wet often, plus never sees the sun , and has limited air flow.......... it just sounds like the perfect enviroment to encourage corrosion, maybe it wont happen, but personally id not take the risk ?
Originally Posted by
sil3nt_dr3ams
Hey mate,
04OFF I'm not sure if your familiar with my other threads but take 5 minutes to flick thru
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...rical-install. this is not my first stab at this kind of thing.
I'm not chasing a perfect sound or am I going to keep trying to improve the sound system. It cranks thats all want, this stuff I've just used happin to tick more boxes combination of sound deadening and adding a whole new level of acoustics. Now i'm trying to work out a way to test its performance so i can give you guys some kind of data to compare it to other products.
Its all good bud, i think you must have taken offence to my first comment, im sorry if it was not worded in a clear enough manner to make it clear that was not the intention.
I have not read your other thread, ill try take a look tonight thanks, i have a background in building competition car audio systems, plus home cinema installations, i owned a P/A Event hire and installation business for over 6 years, so audio install is something i am passionate about, so i like to do things right.
When i saw your pics of foam in the doors, to be honest, it looked like a rookie mistake, many people are not aware that water travels inside the doors as normal design, i pointed this out as i was sure knowbody who knew water travelled down the doors would put foam there, it was not intended to offend, but more to prevent the misery of finding out your doors start rusting from the inside out in a few years time.
No problem with not chasing perfect sound, many people don't have time or care about it, again, my first post i was pointing out the fact ,that if you seal up those big holes with dynamat (of similar product) the improvement you hear in you door speakers , will be even better again than you have now, as this would be so easy and cheap to do while you are doing all this, i thought this advice may help you get more from your system with little effort and cost.
Again, not intended to offend, just trying to share my experience, ill sleep fine if your stereo does not sound as good as it could, or your doors rust.
As for testing, do you have a db meter available to you ?, id lend you mine but your a bit far away !
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 04OFF For This Useful Post:
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25th November 2013, 07:32 PM
#15
The 747
Originally Posted by
04OFF
i have a background in building competition car audio systems, plus home cinema installations, i owned a P/A Event hire and installation business for over 6 years, so audio install is something i am passionate about, so i like to do things right.
You might become my best friend soon.....
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26th November 2013, 10:56 AM
#16
Hardcore
Originally Posted by
Winnie
You might become my best friend soon.....
Gday "mate" (lol)
Originally Posted by
sil3nt_dr3ams
Mate the only problem here is that all the Technical PDF's for this product and the Ten year world wide warranty disagree with your "opinion" The foam has been pacifically designed not to absorb but to reply water
FYI, i spoke to Ted at Ecowise Insulation Solutions, about SOUNDLAG 4525C Pipe insulation, i was told Soundlag foam is NOT actually designed to repel water at all, and in Teds own words , and i quote.......... "it will suck it up like a sponge !"
I explained i wanted to use it for a Automotive application, and was told It is not recommended for such use ,it is designed for pipework/plumbing, not places where the foam is not exposed directly to the elements.
Please feel free to ring Ted from Ecowise yourself to confirm all this... on (02) 9624 2111 (office) or Teds Mobile 0408 962 401
.
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27th November 2013, 12:01 AM
#17
Expert
The entire inside of the doors have been bombed with a spray-able wax so everything is sealed and waterproof . I'll wait for it to dry over the next few days clean out the holes in the bottom of the door to allow water to drain.
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27th November 2013, 06:47 AM
#18
Hardcore
Originally Posted by
sil3nt_dr3ams
The entire inside of the doors have been bombed with a spray-able wax so everything is sealed and waterproof . I'll wait for it to dry over the next few days clean out the holes in the bottom of the door to allow water to drain.
So you are saying you sprayed over the foam as well ? Cool, that will help keep water out for sure.
I was thinking perhaps you could even spray some water repellent on the foam (like you may use on suede shoes), its not very expensive ( I thing Big W have it) and would be easy to do, but im not sure how long that stuff lasts, anyway, the wax would last longer regardless.
Please don't take offence to this, im just thinking out loud........
I just wonder if a membrane of wax over the surface of the foam ,would reduce its sound absorption quality ?
As I understand it, the shape or peaks of waffle foam, are designed to slightly deflect sound waves at right angles, so a portion of the sound wave hitting the foam surface, is now directed "across" the surface (and so hits another foam peak and gets absorbed) as apposed to a large flat surface, where a portion of the sound wave may be reflected directly back at the wave source.
I would expect a coating over the foam ,would by nature, reduce the foams ability to absorb sound, as it would reduce penetration of the foam, sound waves would get reflected off the surface of the wax and not absorbed by the foam much at all ?
Fortunately, the sound "blocking" portion of Soundlag (the loaded polymer with an outer layer of reinforced aluminium foil), will still function 100%, and this undoubtedly will do more for your sound dampening requirements than the foam.
I guess what im trying to say is, that if you remove the "effectiveness" of the foam by sealing its surface with another product, then why have foam at all ?
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27th November 2013, 08:38 AM
#19
The 747
Originally Posted by
04OFF
Gday "mate" (lol)
What do you think of the paint on bitumen deadener? I'm thinking about doing a few coats in the cargo area floor and wheel arches before I put the drawers in. Are product like dynamat etc completely waterproof? I would hate to have to rip it all out one day if I go swimming. What about the bitumen type paint on the doors (with a little of the dynamat type to cover the holes) to help with audio? Would be so much easier to apply than the stick on stuff. Just like SD I am not after perfect sound just some kickin tunes.
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27th November 2013, 08:48 AM
#20
Patrol God
The dynamat and epdm closed cell foam are 100% water proof. As is the bitumen paint on stuff.
Both are in in the thread I liked to and the source.
By the sounds of it the bitumen paint does a similar job to the dynamat, so is say yes, if your after better audio.
But, you will still get a far amount of outside noise coming in as the thinner rubber / bitty products don't actually deaden the sound, they help stop the panels vibrating..
So that's why you need to add the foam layer of some sort. The foam is what reduces the road noises..
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