Steering wheel wobble woes - Help needed please!!

[mopargreg]

Hi everyone,

This is a bit long winded, but its been a long process so I wanted to list everything to date. So please read on. I have a 2011 Nissan Patrol wagon. Up until recently my Patrol had the original 17" alloys & original Bridgestone 693 tyres on it. I had been debating for a while about upgrading to some more aggressive tyres. So I ended up getting some new BFG Km2 in a 285/75/16 on 16 x 8 Dynamic steel rims with a -13 offset. This is where all this mess started. The Patrol has 35000 on the clock & most of that on sealed roads or good dirt roads. No tracks to crazy. New 2" lift, steering dampener, adjustable drag link, 2deg caster bushes less than 12 months ago.

The plan was to continue using my 17" alloys for day to day running around & swap to the steels with km2s when we go off road. Thats the plan for now anyway. So running on the 17" alloys the Patrol drove great, least I thought so. From the lot brand new it steered horrible. But after a wheel alignment when I put a 2" lift in & an adjustible drag link it was pretty good.

I put the brand new Km2's on the car with the steel wheels & there was a steering wobble between 80 & 100kms per hour. Also it just drove horrible on the road. Almost like the tyres were trying to grind into the road. Hard to explain but it was horrible. So I returned the patrol to where I bought the tyres from & said the steering has a wobble & to rebalance the wheels. 1 Hour later I got the patrol back & they said it was very minor wheel balance correction. Not really enough to make a difference. I got 6 wheels as I have 2 spares & 3-4 of the wheels had loads of weights all lined up on bot the inside & outside. At the time I was thinking gee thats alot of weights for new wheels & quality tyres. Drove away & similar wobble, maybe marginally better. This particular shop said all it is, is Nissan Patrols dont have central locating wheels meaning are are really hard to get the wheel to sit dead centre of the hub. They tried to tell me you need to put the wheel on, tighten the nuts. The loosen slightly & spin the wheel backwards & retighten. Do this until no wobble. Anyway!

So I figured it must be something in the wheels as I did not get this wobble with the 17' alloys. So I took it to a different tyre place to get the tyres rebalanced. They said the wheels were out of balance, some around the 40-50 gram mark. Drove away, same thing.

So in disgust I removed the km2s & returned to my original alloys. The patrol drove well again & I was happy apart from having over $2ks worth of wheels & tyres in the garage that I dreaded to use.

So I decided to ring around a few truck alignment places & a few other wheel alignment places. I got varying responses about the issue like, all mud tyres shake the wheel, thats just a mud tyre!. Another place said you shouldnt drive high speed on a mud tyre anyway like 80-100km per hour. They are not designed for that. Another few places said it has to be the new wheels as the old wheels did not do that, its all about balancing. Another place said thats Patrols, they all shake no matter what tyre. A few places said you are on your own, cant help you. Another place said its all about a wheel alignment, no need to rebalance.

So I ended up taking the patrol to Proaxle for a on car wheel balance & alignment. Firstly they balanced the tyres. He removed most of the weights & mainly put the weights on the inside. He used very few weights. He balanced all 6 on the front wheels, 3 on each side. It was interesting to watch, seemed very old school. Very manual with flashing lights. Then a wheel balance. They ended up putting 3/4 degree offset kingpin on the passenger side & used my original bearing. Also it had way to much toe so that was adjusted. Drove away & it was a brand new car. With the mud tyres the steering was very light & no longer felt like the tyres were gouging into the road. Very nice to drive so a win there. The Patrol has never drivin so nice on the road. So now the steering wobble. The wobble is very minimal now & only between 90-100km per hour. It is also not all the time. Its like at those speed it cuts in & out. Sometimes it seems to shake & other times not so much. Its maybe more of a shimmy now. The other thing i noticed was you can feel a very slight bounce/shake through the car, like on your right leg on the accelerator & when the steering wheel starts is in line with it. Does that make sense? All in all it has improved massively. I almost feel like its in my head as the minute I think its fixed it starts to wobble.

So I swapped back to my 17" alloys & the steering wobble/shimmy is gone. But I concentrated on it while driving & that slight bounce/shake I mentioned, you feel through the car is still there, only just. But no steering wheel wobble. While changing wheels I noticed that the drivers side wheel bearing was quite loose. It was due for a service the following week so I had the wheel bearing tightened. I also got them to go over the front end with a fine tooth comb. They mentioned that there is evidence that the panhard bushis starting to show signs of wear/cracking. So there was no change after tighteneing the wheel bearing.

So thats where Im at now. Im pulling my hair out with it. Like its much better now compared to when I first put the Km2s on. But still, I was so excited to get the new wheels & tyres but now I kind of dread putting them on. My next step is to replace the panhard rod bushes, but its all starting to add $ up now.

A few questions to put my mind at ease. This is my first set of mud tyres. Do all mud tyres create steering wheel wobble/ shimmy/vibration? Failing that do all KM2s do this?

I mentioned to the fellow at proaxle that I have read onn the patrol forums that people have had good results removing the shims out of the kingpin/swivel hubs. He said you should never remove the shims, never ever. All this is doing is squashing the bearings & WILL lead to premature bearing failure. Apparently the kingpins are preloaded from Nissan & should never be altered. Any thoughts on this??

Has anyone got any advise for me to resolve this issue? I am hoping the new Panhard bushes will solve it but Im not holding my breathe anymore. Im am just shocked it went through 3 sets of hands & I was the one that realised that the wheel bearing was loose. It seems every place has there own beliefs & some being its not fixable. I cant help but think it must be as I see loads of Patrols running around on mud tyres & steel rims. Surely it must be fixable.

Help please!!! Can anyone think of something I may have missed? Thanks for your help
Greg

[threedogs]

My take is nearly all GUs will shake between 80-90 kph,
My problem was a wheel bearing coming loose some how
Not sure if you can completely eradicate it and as you have found everyone
is an expert. If you replace any bushes use OE Nissan rubber jobs,
You could try lead beads inside your tyres you buy a pkt and place into cavity
tyre will self balance. Never tried it but great for the more Knarly aggressive tyres

[oncedisturbed]

Check Tie Rods and also Drag links for any extra play in them. Mine were both knackered and swapped them out and now almost all gone. Need to check a few other bits adn get another alignment but went from bone breaker shakes to bugger all now

[mopargreg]

Ok thanks for the replies. Yes I had planned to use genuine Nissan bushes etc. The drag link on my Patrol is a Superior engenieering adjustable which has been in for less than a year. So that should be good. Anyone else have any advise for me?

[Stropp]

mate where do you live??, i am in perth and had the same thing, took it to wilkinsons and yes it cost 800 bux but i can drive with one finger if i wanted to NO shake, they replaced tie rod, drag link and castor bushes and balanced and aligned it and its smooth as now, you just need someone who KNOWS and not think they know .

[happygu]

My 285 17 inch KM2's are as good as gold. No shake if holding the wheel, and minor shake if you let go, but that it fairly standard for a lifted Patrol.

Mic

[BigRAWesty]

Only 35,000 On the clock. Something aint right. Most guys see a few hundred thou before having issues, I've got to nearly half mill and only just doing bearings and bushes now...

Its a bit if a chase your tail for sure. Patrols ain't known for their light easy steering, there a proper 4x4..
You mentioned that the panhard is pretty new, I'd leave them until last.

First up I'd get everything 're tightened. Radius arm chassis mounts and bushes, drag and tie Rod ends, and as your running bigger beefier tyres you probably want slightly over torque wheel bearings.

As for king pin bearings, the bloke is correct, removing shims is a quick fix for worn bearings. Back to my original statement, your bus is dam near New..

How much warranty do you have left? I'd be bolting the muddies on, and tell the dealership to make it right or your not leaving, and it WILL be covered..
Something has been missed and worn prematurely..

[janderson]

I had same problem, it was found to be a panhard rod bush. Now much better

[Clunk]

Kallen, it was fitting the muddies onto aftermarket steel rims that were the cause of the issue not the OEM rims and tyres. I would say it would be quite difficult (not impossible) to argue the case to Nissan. Especially as there was no wobble prior to fitting the new rims and larger muddies. But maybe I'm wrong

[mopargreg]

Thanks for the replies everyone. As you could imagine it is driving me nuts. It is by far the death wobbles that alot of people have mentioned through the forums. I guess its more of a shimmy, it certainly improved a lot after going to pro axle. Interestingly today I drove along test driving it in a 90k speed limit. I had my alloys with road tyres on. The whole road was heavily cambered to the left instead of the highest point in the road in the middle & the sides arc's down, like most roads. Travelling along where the road was cambered down to the left there was no steering wobble but a slight vibration when touching the steering wheel. It didnt shake the wheel when you let go of the steering wheel but you could very slightly feel it through the wheel. I threw a u-turn so the camber of the road ran the opposite way & the steering wheel started to slightly shimmy when I let go of the wheel, only just. So there is evidence that this problem is there on both sets of wheels. Only with the mud tyres & steelies it is worse. Maybe like the greater offset in the steelies, more agressive tread pattern & the extra weight is compounding the problem. I probably never noticed it prior to the steelies as I was really concentrating on it while driving today. I wouldnt bother about it if the muddys felt like that as it was close to non existant with the original alloys. It is intermittent which makes it hard.

It is quite disappointing & I didnt think I would have this problem with only 35k km on the clock & less than 2 years old with a modest 2" lift which has been treated like a baby. To answer a few questions -

Stropp - Im in NSW, WA is a bit far away although if I get desperate enough I always wanted to go to WA

Westys - Yes still under warranty for more than 1 year. Honestly Im not even going to bother with Nissan. There warranty doesnt mean much. I drove this patrol right out of the lot brand new with the steering wheel a long way of centre. Also the steering was erratic. If I let go of the steering wheel it darted off into the gutter. It was terrible. at the 1000km service they asked me to take it to a wheel alignment place to get a print out of the angles. I did that & paid for it. Took it back to Nissan & they said there was nothing wrong with it. I asked at least can they get the steering wheel straight& they said it was within 10% of being straight so it was ok. It was more like 30%. I fought it for 6 months to head office & got no where. In the end I got so upset with how I was treated I never went back to Nissan again. A lady at head office even yelled at me, crazy! The drag link is new not the pan hard.

janderson - Yes Im hoping the panhard bushes will fix mine. At my service at the 4wd place they told me there is evidence that the panhard bush on the passenger side is showing signs of cracking. So is yours showing any signs of wobble after the new bushes or did it just improve things slightly?

Clunk - Spot on, as soon as Nissan sees a 2 inch lift with aftermarket drag link & some mud tyres they are basically going to use that as there way out.

So thats where Im at, Im booked in again at the 4wd shop for next Friday, where I get my work done to replace the panhard bushes. Fingers crossed that will take the last of the wobble out. If that doesnt fix it, no idea. How far & how many $ do you put into hopefully fixing it. Ill let you know how it goes. Thanks for your help. If you can think of anything else please let me know. While doing the panhards Ill get them to go over everything again throughly.