Tow Ball Question

[threedogs]

Then dont start on the plug, hey
I'll put pic of two piece ball here tomorrow.
Boy how things have changed

[NP99]

Hmm, ok.......I think the ball is rated to tow 3.5T
.Attachment 27336






.........on the move

Those ark tow balls are going for $7 at super heap this week, bloody mark up from them shits me!

[NP99]

Genuine question deserves a genuine answer - Macca did that and no doubt others have additional "words" to add in a constructive way that will both provide more detail as to why (engineering, sheer weight vs lift vs pull) and strong emphasis on avoiding it at all costs EVEN if you don't understand why.

Getting emotional about it does no one any good ... we're here to learn - not sure if that changed at some stage, but that was my understanding ...

Don't think anyone went out of their way to offend, so let it slide and back to the topic.

DO NOT RECOVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE FROM A TOWBALL.

Don't know the science, but I know how to heed the advice of others "older and wiser" than me, and if that doesn't seal it for you - type it into google, grab some popcorn and sit back and watch (and consider everyone of them lucky - as they are the ones who got away with it and thought it funny to post a video - the unlucky ones, of which there's many, are 6 feet under - and some of them were literally innocent bystanders).


Scotty (Bigrig)

Great Southern Camping
www.gscoffroad.com.au

Not to be a smart arse but google gives very little except the sad case in WA. YouTube however is full of the dingbats!

[mudnut]

Yeah, 3D, the old imperial towball was a smidgen smaller than the metric. Showing my middle age now, but my Grandad had a two piece tow ball on his early model cortina.

[MudRunnerTD]

So the Actual Question in the original Post was "Why cant we use a Towball? i need the information so i can Educate my friend" There was no challenge to our campaign, only support in sharing the knowledge gained here.

His friend takes it for granted like 80% of the population that the "Tow" Ball will work when "Towing" someone out with a Snatch strap! No Stupid people there! just Uneducated. The Very Intelligent and Trained and Educated Engineers at HOLDEN even shot a very expensive commercial to prove that the general public really dont get it!

So our forum is doing a World Service by sharing the knowledge as much as we can. If our friends are listening and newbys are seeing it all over our forum then our job is being done well.

His friend would only be an Idiot if once presented with the evidence and education gained from this thread and others threads on this forum he denied the logic and continued to use a Towball. At that point Punch him in the NECK!

As said in other posts, the Tow ball is rated to Pull a Load of up to 3.5ton as per the towing capacity of vehicle. It is not designed to be exposed to Sheer force created by a Kinetic Snatch strap and is in no way rated for this application.

Take the whole Tongue out and use the pin or buy a purpose made and rated recovery device.

Happy days, Stay Safe. Educate the Masses.

[growler2058]

Genuine question deserves a genuine answer - Macca did that and no doubt others have additional "words" to add in a constructive way that will both provide more detail as to why (engineering, sheer weight vs lift vs pull) and strong emphasis on avoiding it at all costs EVEN if you don't understand why.

Getting emotional about it does no one any good ... we're here to learn - not sure if that changed at some stage, but that was my understanding ...

Don't think anyone went out of their way to offend, so let it slide and back to the topic.

DO NOT RECOVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE FROM A TOWBALL.

Don't know the science, but I know how to heed the advice of others "older and wiser" than me, and if that doesn't seal it for you - type it into google, grab some popcorn and sit back and watch (and consider everyone of them lucky - as they are the ones who got away with it and thought it funny to post a video - the unlucky ones, of which there's many, are 6 feet under - and some of them were literally innocent bystanders).


Scotty (Bigrig)

Great Southern Camping
www.gscoffroad.com.au

WoW WHAT a REPLY U sHOULD BE A MODERATOR

[twisty]

Got this info here (page 6). Condensed

My 4x4 usually weighs close to 3000kg (6600lb) on a trip. To move or pull a vehicle on a firm flat bitumen surface requires a force of about 10% of the loaded weight of the vehicle. Gravel or grass increases this to about 33%. The limit of a towballs capcity WITHOUT a snatch strap.

1lb equals 0.454kgs, or 1kg equals 2.2lbs.

Bogged
Bogged to the Base of the Wheel Rim, needs a pull of about 100% of the load.
Bogged to the wheel Hub, requires a pull of 200% of the load.
Bogged to the Belly or the Chassis, 300%.

Slope
• 15degree Slope = add +25% of the weight
• 30degree Slope = add +50%
• 45degree Slope = add +75%
For a Decline, or Downhill, change the "plus" to a "minus".

Example
I'm bogged to the Hubs on a 30 degree slope. (3000+50%)x2=9000kg (19800lb). Way beyond a towballs capacity

Share as you see fit.

[NP99]

Got this info here (page 6). Condensed

My 4x4 usually weighs close to 3000kg (6600lb) on a trip. To move or pull a vehicle on a firm flat bitumen surface requires a force of about 10% of the loaded weight of the vehicle. Gravel or grass increases this to about 33%. The limit of a towballs capcity WITHOUT a snatch strap.

1lb equals 0.454kgs, or 1kg equals 2.2lbs.

Bogged
Bogged to the Base of the Wheel Rim, needs a pull of about 100% of the load.
Bogged to the wheel Hub, requires a pull of 200% of the load.
Bogged to the Belly or the Chassis, 300%.

Slope
• 15degree Slope = add +25% of the weight
• 30degree Slope = add +50%
• 45degree Slope = add +75%
For a Decline, or Downhill, change the "plus" to a "minus".

Example
I'm bogged to the Hubs on a 30 degree slope. (3000+50%)x2=9000kg (19800lb). Way beyond a towballs capacity

Share as you see fit.

And a few drivers too!

[douglarv]

Toyota Stamp their towballs 3500 kg what that translates to I dont know .
I would assume it means tow capacity, Still people will want to push the envelope.
"It didn't break last time so lets try again" wrong
Never seen a towball with Nissan logo , but I come from the dark side
I have an old style cast iron towball with a machined coach bolt for display only
That was in the days when you had 2 size towballs if any one remembers

Do you not still have different sizes of tow balls? We just swapped one out of the receiver that was too big (2 inch vs. 1 1/2 inch) for the trailer hitch.

[cgm]

... why you cant recover from a towball when its rated 3500kg and shackles are about the same! ...

Having a valid answer for this or similar questions really bugged me for a long time. I reckon it is a fair question and even though you know you shouldn't, what are some "common sense" answers that let you go away feeling comfortable about why you shouldn't?

For me it started when being told at a club training day that I could not pull off the mount points on my ARB bar on my Rodeo. They looked like that's what they were made for!! The follow on was that it wasn't up for discussion or explanation, just that they're not made for it and that's it. Let me not go off topic, but just say that's where the similar thoughts started and it really bugged me that no one wanted to give me some reasonable technical or at least common sense technical level answer.

Coming back to the topic of the towball I think much of the issue is directly related to the quote on Growler's signature: "WARNING: TOWBALLS USED WITH SNATCHSTRAPS DO KILL!!"

I'm not saying the snatchstrap is the only problem with towball recoveries, but I think it is where the major issues start and most of the examples will be. I'm not a great fan of snatch straps simply because they can be so easily misused.

With an 8000kg snatch strap (the lighter rating size) it is difficult to tell how much force will actually be applied between the two vehicles. If the pulling truck is in low first and driven off slowly but constantly with the other truck lightly stuck and only 1-2 metres of slack, then the force won't be too much. But in real life the guy who is stuck is up to his bonnet in mud, has a heap of gear in the car (equal to lots of weight) and the bar of his car is nudged up against a hard edge coming out of the bog hole. In no time at all to have any chance of getting him out with a snatch strap it can escalate to a dangerous place. How much force is being put on now? These are the "youtube" ones where you see them run at top speed with 4 or 5 metres + of slack. All that energy goes into the stretched strap and it has to go somewhere. You can easily imagine now that the 8000kg strap is still going to stand up to much more than the 3500kg tow ball. You can also easily start to imagine that the force could be in excess of the 3500kg rating of the towball. Something has to give, hopefully the stuck vehicle, but otherwise it is going to be the next weakest link, which is probably the towball (or a poor recovery point).

This all ties in perfectly when you look at the forces required based on twisty's post, for the extra forces, etc.

To me this is a common sense starting point that lets me start to understand "why" we shouldn't do it.

There are some great background points in this ARB article (things like forces involved, not being able to control the use of a product, etc.):

http://www.arb.com.au/getting-starte...ery_points.php
(I think this article was originally in the ARB Spring 2011 Newsletter as well, which is where I originally noticed it)

Coming back to the original question about the towball vs the shackle (quote from the article):


"Thankfully, there are standards for the shackles we all use to attach straps, however their rating system is based on lifting gear standards, and the safety factors in lifting gear mean that the rating is one fifth of the failure point."

So, going from this the common 4.75T (4750kg) shackle we usually see and use is not meant to break (as a safety factor) until it has 5 x 4.75 = 23.75T.

Do you think you'd have the same 5 x factor on the 3.5T towball? I really doubt it. Do you think you'd have the same 5 x factor on the 8000kg snatch strap? I'm sure it isn't. (there was a 4wd action article where they tested various brand staps until they broke, but I can't find it just now to see what rough factor it was - would love it if anyone had a reference to that?)

So, at least for me, that gives me a comfortable, "common sense" answer as to why not the towball when we use shackles in many situations with recoveries.

Final comment: Any solid object used in a recovery can easily end up being a deadly "missile" - including shackles. Minimize their use, never join straps with them and always hook to a solid rated recovery point (rated points is a whole other topic, but I'll leave that to TD and other experts). You can use a good shackle on a good strap and hook it to a tie down point which will break and easily still kill someone with no towball involved.

Sorry for the long answer, but hope some of this makes sense to answer the actual question.