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@FNQGU mate, our industry finds 'black' is usually a bit cheaper than colours. Not as bad with injection moulding as MOQ's a very high. Rotational moulding 'black' is a good 'mould cleanout' colour yet best on UV stability. HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) floats whereas others like LLDPE and PVC mixtures sink when flooded. Maybe you could expand into Marine and or Military customers down the track with the right moulds from the start +100,000 runs as a good minimum maker guarantee mate!
Thanks guys. Good input.
MB - yes the Injection Moulds are good for at least 100,000 or even lots more. I saw one mould that had done over a million milk crates with only minor maintenance.
Our current favourite material (pending testing) is a glass reinforced Poly Propylene that is UV stabilised and uses engineering grade Acetal pins and latches instead of metal of any sort. The thought is to make this a tough box that will handle lots of punishment.
The marine guys we've spoken to are definitely keen on the 'no metal' parts and the nesting abilities of the box and we've had a few good conversations with some military blokes too.
Roto moulding gives the nice vertical sides that we all like for packing but unfortunately needs the big interior lip which makes the box hard to clean out. Roto moulded boxes are also everywhere with good products so not worth trying to do another one.
Base colour might be a grey as standard. Black to me seems like it will get really hot if sitting on the roof all the time. Hopefully there will be enough demand for a variety of colours.
ET - I really looked hard at that option and will experiment a bit down the track if we can. Injection moulding comes with a heap of tooling restrictions so it needs clever engineering and detachable fittings. Pelican screw there fittings on which works very well, so that sort of thing might be an option, not sure yet.
great idea. i like the colours with contrasting latches, maybe keep the same colour for the tub and have a range of different latches and/or lids? owners will need some way of telling the boxes apart! some comments
* having the lip of the tub wider than the lid looks like it'd allow water ingress
* consider a raised lip and/or rubber seal inside the lid to seal from water & dust
* does the high raised/convex lid mean you need an equally high raised/concave base on the tub?? if so, that doesn't seem great for internal packing - it'd chew away at space and you wouldn't often pack stuff higher than the rim. if that's the case can you have only a slight rise in height for the lid?
* would the lid be effective with only two latches? opening/closing three of them all the time around camp would get annoying?; or
* can you fold the latches up out of the way so that when you're using them around camp you only need to lock one latch to keep out dingoes/goannas/etc?
* maybe before finalising the design, consider the dimensions so you could make an adaptor/bracket kit to store them on the rhino platform/front runner "system" style roof racks?? similar in concept to how you can easily store maxtrax? maybe you even modify the corners of the tub slightly to introduce a notch so it'd clip into a roof rack bracket and you don't need tie downs?
* if you make them in different sizes, size the smaller unit so that you can stack two together and the pair of them stacked is exactly the same height as the larger single unit.
You are definitely all over it mate, well done! I don't know too much about ABS type glass reinforced plastics but did have a good friend warn me about manufacturers temps in production should be critical ! Once perfected it is some seriously tough shit mate, well done :-) !!
Thanks Dan,Quote:
Originally Posted by dannnnn
Re the water ingress - we've got a substantial raised inner lip and quality seal. Had to install a goretex valve to allow pressure equalisation as the seal was so decent.
The interior floor of the box is flat and the height of the lid was based on full sized wine bottles and cordial bottles etc. To avoid the case of wasted space in the higher sections of the box, we added in the removable trays for smaller items. We've also had quite a number of requests for wine storage ability. Like a foam filler or somethng. Drinks and the bush go hand in hand, so we are keeping this in mind as well.
The lid is raised and shaped that way to stop water pooling if left out in camp like the Nally bin scenario.
Two latches - yes we looked at this and ran a heap of computer modeling on the sealing of the box and concluded we needed the third latch to keep integrity. It also helps to avoid the dreaded warp factor when idiots put 2.5t ratchet straps across them and reef them down hard.
You can of course just use one latch to avoid any sort of animal getting in there. The latches will also pop off with a fair bit of effort when at the right angle and are replaceable if lost.
Re storage on roof racks - the notches in all four corners are exactly for this. Designed for turn buckles or ropes and allow the lids to still be opened whilst the box remains secure. This is one annoying thing with using ratchet straps over the top that can be avoided although of course you can still use the straps and the lid has been designed to retain the straps in place either from side to side or end to end.
Re heights - yes. The next model will be larger and about the full width of a roof rack. A smaller model is also in the wings. The current sized 55 litre box will stack on top of the larger box and vice versa. Heights, lengths and widths will all be compatible.
MB - thanks mate. The learning curve has been a steep one but we are getting some great assistance as well. Temps with production moulds are critical and these guys get really fussy when it comes to good design to avoid slowing down the process. MaxTrax are a glass reinforced nylon and these boxes will be sort of similar but with Poly Propylene instead.
Hope this helps.
Ben
nice 1 ben, sounds like a good design! what are you thinking they will sell for??
re: tie down points - i saw your bit about the holes on the top corners, but i find it annoying to use ratchet straps or turn buckles. i was suggesting you make a seperate bracket that you attach to the roof rack and then you simply "drop" / "click" the tub into the bracket on your rack, no further tie downs/etc required.
edit; idea for an accessory - sits on the inside rim sort of like your carry tray, but a cutlery box like the ones creative camping solutions sell on ebay.
Still looking at a whole quick release system mate. But that is down the track a little. Starting with the interior of a wagon first.
fair enough mate, although if you need to build in some notches or whatever to make it work then it'd be better to do it from the beginning??
love the idea of the bolt-in vehicle frame to hold them in the back of a wagon/ute. you have fairly pointed out how awkward drawers can be in day-to-day vehicle use and i'll also point out that after you've spent $400-2,000 on a set of drawers you then need to spend
* another $600 on a drop-down fridge slide just to get your fridge back down to an accessible height
* another $700 odd on a cargo barrier to keep all your stuff from flying into the back of your head
* if you've got kids in seats, another $300 odd on a crib bar because the drawers cover the factory child restraint points
that's a system costing minimum $2000, weighs a heap, and most of the cash is being spent on work-arounds because of the drawers!!
if you design your frame right you could still access the factory child restraint points, you could store stuff *above* the fridge allowing you to use a flat/normal/cheap fridge slide and you could also have catches to restrain the boxes negating the need for a barrier. then you store something like 4 boxes to the right of the fridge, and maybe leave enough space on the bottom or side to store a fold-in-half blow mould table. heaps of storage, touring setup sorted. then when you get home, 4 or so bolts, the whole thing comes out and as a plus you store the boxes in the frame in your garage, taking up minimal extra space. as a system it'd be easily $1,000 cheaper and it's more functional... where do i invest!!??
These are the notches we've built in. Work with a turn buckle or you can feed rope right through (in one side and out the other). They are re-inforced as well.
Might be possible to make quick release brackets that use these notches.
As for the rest, yes, we are on the same page.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...017/06/166.jpgNotches by Ben Kincade,
Ben
Hi Ben,Quote:
Originally Posted by FNQGU
Yeah, that is what I was driving at in my previous poorly worded post... having a "joiner" that takes a second or two to tighten/release and not needing turnbuckles, ropes, straps etc to restrain/stack/secure may be one (of several) differentiators that makes your product appeal to the masses out there.
Totally agree they will still need the ability to use the other options of course
Colours? I am not a marketing dude by any means but a 'black with red clips' may make everyone immediately think Tactix brand at first glance, looks good.
Sizes? My only suggestion, which you will almost certainly have already thought of, would be to keep the container outside dimensions as multiples of 2 so that 2 smaller ones match and stack the same footprint as 1 larger one.
Having done the odd K of working the Pilbara/Kimberley and touring the outback the ability of the Aussie Bulldust to get into storage containers, transit cases etc is bloody amazing.
So much so I reckon it is actually an alien life form.
My instrument cases, equipment boxes, drums etc all have seals of Pelican Case standard or better and if you need a gortex valve then yours will tick that box as well I reckon
Anyhooow... hope they are an awesome success for ya