Joining snatch straps

Hi all, I have been writing up a small proceedure document about the care and use of snatch straps, gathering info from various on line sources. all went well until I started to describe how to join snatch straps. From one document the following quote

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If more reach is required, use a winch extension strap (or two) with the snatch strap. Never use a second snatch strap.

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. Then from another on line document

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NEVER join a static strap or rope to the snatch when trying to make it longer.

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. As there is so much information about joining snatch straps available, I would think the first comment is wrong. Both comments are taken from 4x4 documents, not somebody just having a go on farcebook or similar. Any thoughts anybody?

IMHO it depends so I take exception to the use of "never" in both quotes... but... I would like to see the full context and source for both statements.

Every accredited course I have either participated in or done an audit on (probably 10 or so different RTO's) has demonstrated joining two snatch straps.
IMHO the discussion doesn't go deep enough into the pros and cons of two snatchies V one and an extension and the course usually just has the "how to" demo and thats it.

When I present that module I usually include a quick discussion on the merits of both as when you are out bush the old "whatever needs must" comes in and you have to use whatever is available.
If you have two snatchies and no extension or only one snatchy and one extension (and have tried all other avenues first) then use what you have.

The main thing to consider over a kinetic strap and a static strap when using two snatchies is the extra rebound distance before the kinetic energy is zero.

I'll ask #1 son what his views are when he gets home - he is a Heavy Vehicle Recovery Trainer/Assessor and does up to 25 tons (IE 50 ton rated straps on 25 ton trucks and plant)

Thanks ET
The quotes come from a camping and off road gear shop;
[QUOTE]Don’t tie 2 straps together with a knot as the knot may fail and you may never get it undone again. Also NEVER join a static strap or rope to the snatch when trying to make it longer.

and from a car mag doing a 4x4 article;

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Rig the stricken vehicle first, then bring the recovering vehicle as close to in-line as possible. If more reach is required, use a winch extension strap (or two) with the snatch strap. Never use a second snatch strap.

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I won't name the particular shops but it struck me that this is in many cases the place that newbies get their info from. To be fair, both articles cover many good points including not using tow balls, roo bars and tyre carriers as recovery points.

OK my comments for what they are worth...
First quote...
Agree you do not use a knot on two snatchies and they have a reason which is logical,
Disagree you never join a static strap or rope but they haven't given a reason so cannot argue their logic, maybe they are worried people may use differing ratings of strap, a knot or shackle, who knows.
One reason I have been given is that Snatchies typically carried by reccy 4X users are 8K or 9K rating and Winch Extensions are often 1/2 that to match winch pull and is also usually what goes pear shaped when you investigate why extension straps bust if used with snatchies IE they used a 8K snatch and a 4.5K extension not an 8 or 9K.
I say, Derrrr, of course the extension will bust first if it is 1/2 the rating so either use an equally rated extension or tree trunk protectors (usually 12K or so). The extension would also break if you used a 4.5K one on an 8K winch.
Tree trunk jobbies are usually only 5 metres but Winch straps are often 20 or so which is often too long unless you are down the beach.
You can double the winch extension but the friction at the equalising point can be an issue

Second quote...
Agree you rig the mired vehicle first, agree you need to be as "in-line" as is practicable
Disagree you never use a second strap.
It is AFAIK an acceptable practice (albeit not desireable) in all facets of industry and recreational use.
It is a module on every accredited Recovery Course I have seen and Vendors and manufacturers of snatchies even have the procedure on their websites, pages, instructions etc so I call total bollocks on that one.

All of the above is why I have a quick chat when doing the demos... what will and won't work is often down to understanding what is happening not just how to connect it

I got hopelessly bogged once and used all my winch line, snatch straps, tree protector and some 8mm nylon rope AND ended up winching at 90 degrees to the vehicle to get out.

I'd use 2 snatchies joined with a soft shackle without hesitation.

But if you're writing up something that could come back and bite you I spose you need accurate information.

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Originally Posted by 10G

I got hopelessly bogged once and used all my winch line, snatch straps, tree protector and some 8mm nylon rope AND ended up winching at 90 degrees to the vehicle to get out.

I'd use 2 snatchies joined with a soft shackle without hesitation.

But if you're writing up something that could come back and bite you I spose you need accurate information.

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Not a formal doc, just a help sheet for a group. I have stated that the information is not written by me but is a summary of a few different sources. Better than no idea at all untill formal course can be organised.

... just confirmed my thinking with #1 Son.
He agrees the statement about not joining Kinetics is bollocks.
His opinion of the Kinetic to Static statement is that it shouldn't say "Never"
On the Heavy Recovery Courses they do make a point to discuss the issue that Extensions are often rated or matched to the vehicle winch capacity and that when joining any recovery gear that extra attention be paid to the ratings of all components with the kinetic component/s being the lowest.