Dual Battery System?

[oncedisturbed]

The rig had a Cole Hersse dual battery system with manual switch over installed by the previous owners and I have been looking through the system and it has got me stumped.

Now the normal set up to my understanding is;
1 - Main Battery
2 - Acc Battery
Both - Both batts for extra cranking, winch etc

Now in (1) mode, no crank over, (2) cranks, (both) cranks.

Had a look at the wiring and it appears as if it was run parallel with no monitor / auto isolator etc and have also found a secondary earth not connected and just sits in between both batts.

Any ideas?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/d218551e.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/204dbd3e.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/673cce53.jpg

[Yendor]

The earths from both batteries, where do they go? Do they go to that manual switch over?

Also the loose lead in your hand in the last photo, where does the other end go? is that the original earth lead?

[Maxhead]

Looks good, thats not a bad spot for it either.

[oncedisturbed]

the lead in the hand appears to be an earth that is mounted below the top battery but does not connect to any battery, the earth from the top battery goes to the same spot.

the earth from the bottom battery appears to go to the manual switch in cab.

Never used or set up a cole hersse system so I confused in how it works, previous rig had a full auto isolator set up, no manual override

[Yendor]

The rig had a Cole Hersse dual battery system with manual switch over installed by the previous owners and I have been looking through the system and it has got me stumped.

Now the normal set up to my understanding is;
1 - Main Battery
2 - Acc Battery
Both - Both batts for extra cranking, winch etc

Now in (1) mode, no crank over, (2) cranks, (both) cranks.

Had a look at the wiring and it appears as if it was run parallel with no monitor / auto isolator etc and have also found a secondary earth not connected and just sits in between both batts.

Any ideas?





Yes that is how they are normally set up.

With yours for some reason it seems they wanted to be able to turn power off to the vehicle.

That loose lead, looks like the original earth lead. I would say that they have run new earth leads from your batteries to the isolator switch and a lead from the isolation switch to your engine (and hopefully one from the engine to the body and chassis).

The system is set up to isolate the battery from the vehicle by breaking the earth circuit (depending on the position of the switch).

It doesn't have an auto isolator, if you have the switch set to both batteries you can flatten both batteries.

[97_gq_lwb]

I run a simple system a starter type solenoid to join the positives between batteries.
Then a switch in the cab to earth to one side of the solenoid switch and the other to ign positive.
Simple and hassle free no worrying about low batteries dropping in and out trying to charge and easily bypassed with the switch .

[Yendor]

the lead in the hand appears to be an earth that is mounted below the top battery but does not connect to any battery, the earth from the top battery goes to the same spot.

the earth from the bottom battery appears to go to the manual switch in cab.

Never used or set up a cole hersse system so I confused in how it works, previous rig had a full auto isolator set up, no manual override

That's strange. the vehicle should crank regardless of the switch position then.

[Yendor]

I run a simple system a starter type solenoid to join the positives between batteries.
Then a switch in the cab to earth to one side of the solenoid switch and the other to ign positive.
Simple and hassle free no worrying about low batteries dropping in and out trying to charge and easily bypassed with the switch .

In my opinion this set up is the way to go for most people.

It's cheap to set up and works really well.

[oncedisturbed]

thats my understanding as well as it is effectively a 4 stage manual switch. 1= main, 2 = accesory, both = both batts and then there is an off point to switch to as well that shuts all power off.

I am hoping that the front battery will still charge if I start running accessories off it such as fridge etc.

Might pay to go and chat to a sparky on Monday me's be thinking

[MudRunnerTD]

thats my understanding as well as it is effectively a 4 stage manual switch. 1= main, 2 = accesory, both = both batts and then there is an off point to switch to as well that shuts all power off.

I am hoping that the front battery will still charge if I start running accessories off it such as fridge etc.

Might pay to go and chat to a sparky on Monday me's be thinking

Your talking to one for free here mate, Yendor is your man and is very generous with his advice.

[oncedisturbed]

Ahh didnt realise, thanks for the input :)

Any wiring diagram pics available for one of these that i may be able to snaffle at all so i can double check how its wired?

If its parallel wired and 1 batt dies, usually you have to replace both batts from what i understand which is not really beneficial.

Will try and get some better pics to load up.

[oncedisturbed]

h'okay, some more piccies

switch in 2nd position / main battery position.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/0508acf5.jpg

accessory / 2nd battery - earth appears to run through fire wall to switch and power to 1st / main battery

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/439e32b5.jpg

split earth under main tray, 1 not connected (possible OEM earth as mentioned earlier) 2nd lead earths to the block

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/10d019f7.jpg

earthed to block / engine

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/79195875.jpg

positive jack on main battery with positive through firewall also.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/e9f4ade5.jpg

I followed what I could through the firewall and there is a positive and earth running to manual switch so it appears the the front battery is the accessories battery, unable to crank off this as per switch position, not a problem happy with this. Back battery is main battery, can crank off this, no dramas, happy with this. Both position, fires up and all good then OFF nuddah zip, sweet all works.


Then stumbled upon this

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/b5d2df63.jpg

comes off the back of the washer motor and taps into an unplugged plug, got me stumped.

Is there a monitor available that would allow me to tap into the wiring to monitor both batteries in this current set up?

[AB]

I'm the wrong person to answer electronics mate but hope you get it sorted!

[Yendor]

Disconnect the neg. lead from the battery with the orange caps, what switch position/s does the vehicle crank?

Reconnect that lead and disconnect the neg. lead from the other battery , what switch position/s does the vehicle crank?

Do you know who owned the vehicle before you?

[oncedisturbed]

Cheers AB, usually not to bad with basic leccy stuff or setting one up from scratch but this one got me buggered on the setup as it was already installed before I picked it up

[oncedisturbed]

will go check that now, was picked up from a car yard but from what I can gather it was a govt fleet vehicle before me, sods never advised me of that which they are reqd to do so I found out after starting my salary package through work with this troll.

[Yendor]

Ahh didnt realise, thanks for the input :)

Any wiring diagram pics available for one of these that i may be able to snaffle at all so i can double check how its wired?

If its parallel wired and 1 batt dies, usually you have to replace both batts from what i understand which is not really beneficial.



Will try and get some better pics to load up.


I think you are getting confused with batteries connected in series (24 volt vehicles), if ones of these batteries die, yes it is better to replace both batteries.

On 12 volt vehicles the second battery is always wired parallel to the original battery.

A battery isolation unit (normally automatic) is then used to separate the batteries from each other when the engine is not running.

This enables you to run your accessories from your second battery without draining your original cranking battery,

[Yendor]

The set up is strange,

They have disconnected the vehicle's original earth and just left it hanging and then they have run a new earth to the same places as the original.

Then you have a positive from one battery going to the isolator switch and the earth from the other battery going to the isolator switch.

[oncedisturbed]

okey dokey, top battery is the main cranks on 2 and both cuts out on 1 and OFF, bottom is alt and does not crank unless on "both" but get power on 1 setting. OFF cuts out completely .

[Yendor]

Ok, so we know that both batteries are isolated from each other when on setting 1 and 2 (why it was set up so you can't start from second battery only, who knows).

I haven't had experience with this brand. The brand I have had experience with, when you had the setting on 1 or 2 the other battery would not get charged by the alternator.

If it was my truck I would remove the manual isolator and the battery cables running to it and fit an automatic isolator.

Either a simple constant operation solenoid, switch on when ignition is on or something like a Redarc unit.

[oncedisturbed]

no probs, will have a look at them

thanks for the info :)

[oncedisturbed]

Been thinking (yup it hurts :) ) - I like the idea of a manual override switch incab but is it possible to put say a redarc or similar system in between the 2 batteries for accurate charge / discharge at all?

[Yendor]

I guess you could if you wanted to, but there is really not much point in having two systems that do the same thing.

The way your system is set up now is.

You get to camp and switch the engine off, you would then move the selector to setting 1.

You accessories are now running from the second battery, if this battery goes flat it doesn't matter.

When you go to start the vehicle you will move the selector to setting 2, this will enable the vehicle to start from the original battery.

Then once the vehicle has been running for a couple of minutes move the selector to both, this well charge both batteries.

So you can do all that or you can remove the manual system and fit an automatic one.

What/how do you want to use the second battery for?

[Yendor]

Then stumbled upon this

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/oncedisturbed/b5d2df63.jpg

comes off the back of the washer motor and taps into an unplugged plug, got me stumped.



Sorry I missed this last night.

The washer bottle is normally fitted where your second battery is now.

They have moved the washer bottle and have just run another harness for it and tapped into the original harness.

[oncedisturbed]

ah, that would explain why it was tapped into the plug, cheers for.

The 2nd battery would be set up for the fridge, lights and whatever else the missus or munchkin bring with them.

Might get a dual battery monitor in stead and wire up to the 2 batteries so I can better keep an eye on them.

Thank for your help Yendor :)

[oncedisturbed]

okey dokey, have been doing a bit more looking through the wiring set up that was installed and it looks like what they have done is what would normally be the aux batt (660cca / 80 ah hybrid) has been turned into the main cranking battery AND the aux battery. The original cranking battery has been set up as as a back up battery only to support the now MAIN battery.

I have room on the left side of the engine bay to put another tray and battery but wondering whether the alternator would be able to support another battery?

[HuskyInAuz]

Why isn't there a '1/2/both' switch on the 12 vdc system somewhere?
Mine has a Piranha but the 'house' batter went dead today after a 2.15 hour run.
Don't know where the problem is but will investigate tomorrow.