Noisy Starter

[benno_84]

Hi Guys,

My Nissan has just started to make an occasional noise when I crank the starter. It sounds like the little gear which spins the fly wheel is slipping or not contacting properly.

It only happens probably once every 10 starts and the motor always starts straight away once I retry the ignition.

I am wondering if I can simply replace the starter gear and not the whole starter? Also how easy is it to get to the starter? Any advice or experience is welcome! If anyone has a cheap starter that will fit a 1998 GU 4.2 let know.

Lloyd

[YNOT]

The starter motor is the easy part of this job, just get a reco starter from your local auto elec. But be warned, replacing the starter motor on its own won't fix the problem. The real problem is the wear spots on your flywheel ring gear. If it's only just started happening there may only be 1 wear spot, which is why it only plays up occasionally. As the starter gear continues to wear, you will end up with 3 wear spots-a 6 cyilnder engine will usually always stop in one of those 3 positions. Fixing the flywheel ring gear is a gearbox or engine out job, and that's a big job.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the starter and ring gear need to be done together.

Tony

[patch697]

I agree with Tony on all counts Im sorry to say, this is normally whats found in these circumstances.

However this could stay this way & not get to much worse for quite a while..


Cheers
Paul

[benno_84]

Thanks Tony,

Just wondering what sort of mileage I will get out of the thing before I need to do this? Like I said it only happens probably 1 in 20 cranks of the starter, all the other time the things starts straight away. Is this a job I could attempt myself given the right tools and help? What is involved? And what sort of round-about cost would it be if I got a mechanic to do it for me?

Also are there anything I can do to prevent it from getting worse or slow the wear down?

Lloyd

[YNOT]

The problem will get progressively worse, how long that takes is anyone's guess, but generally the more you use your car the quicker it will happen.
If you do get stuck where the starter just refuses to engage, put the vehicle in gear, handbrake off, and rock the car manually to turn the engine over just enough to get to an undamaged part of the ring gear. Your in trouble if this happens and your car is an auto.

Given the right tools and help, you could do this job at home. I wouldn't attempt to do it by yourself, the gearbox weighs about 200kg so have some one help you getting the box in and out. You will need a couple of big trolley jacks too.
If you have access to an engine lift crane, then pull the engine out, I reckon that would be an easier way to do it. Either way you will need to know how to line up a clutch. How long has it been since you replaced the clutch? Could be a good time to replace it.

Getting a mechanic to do the job would be mainly labour costs, probably at least 8 hours. Most places charge about $100 hour or more.

Tony

[benno_84]

Thanks Tony,

I can get access to most of those things quiet easily. The clutch has actually just been done, its a shame the guys I bought it from didn't do this then as well! I have a few mates here who are good mechanics and happy to help out over a few beers on a weekend so that will probably be the way I go.

From what you've said I take it that it will gradually wear and as it does it will be harder and harder to get the starter to engage the flywheel? So at the moment it happens probably 1 in 20 cranks, as it wears this will become more frequent until eventually it wont engage at all is that right?

Why I am asking is that I was planning on going on a few short trips in it soon and I don't want to end up along way from home and have the thing unable to start on me, from what you have said it sounds like its not something that will happen suddenly. Might go down to the local mechanic and get some details anyway.

Lloyd

[benno_84]

Tony,

Just another line of thought. I have been told that the starter gear is made of softer metal so that it should wear before the flywheel gear? Is this true? Would it be worth just replacing the starter gear? Can I check the flywheel for wear by just taking the starter of?

Lloyd

[YNOT]

With mirrors and a torch you should be able to see the wear on the ring gear with the starter out. From my experience the ring gears wear just as fast as the starter pinion.

As for going bush before you fix it, just remember, Murphy is never far away!

Tony

[benno_84]

Yeah I agree about bloody murphy mate!

I have just finished packing the truck for a weekend camping trip though! Although not too far from home and not really out bush so we will just see how she goes. Sounds like I might have to get prepared to do this big job! Oh well, good fun learning on the way, and thats what you get for buying a 4wd with alot of km's already on the clock.

Thanks again for the advice, I might need some helpful hints when I try and fix it up.

Lloyd

[YNOT]

I'd offer to help you with the job myself, but Wee Waa's a long way from Brisbane.

Tony

[Finly Owner]

if you go to your local kennards hire store you can hire a transmission jack to help with removal of box, especially if you're doing it by self.

[benno_84]

Yeah Wee Waa is a long way from anywhere really, and not really on the way to anywhere either. But hey thats why I love it!

Thanks anyway Tony, I really do appreciate the advice. I think I will just keep an eye on it and if it gets any worse (more frequent) I will jack her up in the shed and hook into it with a few mates over a few weekends.

Lloyd

[benno_84]

Finly Owner,

Thanks for the good advice. I hadn't thought of that, there are a few mechanics I know well who may even have one I can borrow for a weekend. I guess the hardest bit is actually getting the gearbox out given that it is so heavy and awkward. The truck has a pretty good lift kit in it so at least that gives us a little more clearance to work with.

I had a yarn to my brother in law who has done a heap of clutches on hilux's and cruisers and he said he would be happy to come up for a few days and help out, so that might be the way to go. Always handy to have good mates with a bit of know how.

[YNOT]

Plassy, I have seen the method you talk of where the firewall gets 'massaged'. The reason people use that method is they have not removed the transfer case. When you rotate the GB to get the transfer away from the floor of the car, you also rotate the starter motor boss in the bell housing up towards the firewall. This is where the massaging occurs. Consider taking the transfer case off if you don't like the sound of this method. It will also make the GB about 50kg lighter.

Another method I've seen is using an engine lift crane with the boom in through an open front door, with a chain around the GB.

You are correct about loosening the engine mounts, but you also need to unbolt the exhaust at the bottom of the manifold (or extractors if you have them). But don't forget to supprt the engine as it will not support itself once everything is loose.

Benno, having a decent suspension lift can make it easier, you may not even need to jack the car up. I've seen up to 6 people under a Patrol trying to get a GB out! Make sure the trolley jacks you use will go high enough.

If it was my car I would seriously consider pulling the engine instead, especially being a basic TD42. Personal preference.

Tony

[Finly Owner]

If you look for a transmission jack check the height you need to go too, and make sure the tranny jack goes that high. These can lift , hold, lower, spin and tilt gera box. Use chains to anchor box to jack.

[benno_84]

Hi Guys,

Sorry its been so long! I finally got around to having a look at that starter, I climbed underneath the rig trying to work out the best way to get it off and low and behold when I went to touch the starter body the whole thing was hanging loose. An inspection from the top revealed that the top mounting bolt had completely fallen of!, so basically I think the bolts have gradually been loosening off and thats why the car has had increased trouble starting. What I am wondering is if anyone knows the dimensions of the top mounting bolt (length, pitch and diameter). I had a look in the workshop manual that I have and unfortunately it doesn't give dimensions. At this stage I am trying to avoid pulling the whole starter out as I don't want to have to remove the filters just yet......figure If it goes okay I will wait until the next oil change and then have a look.

Anyway if anyone knows those dimension or where I could get them that would be greatly appreciated.

Lloyd

[YNOT]

It should be the same as the bottom bolt, so pull it out and get a bolt shop to match it. This is going to be a bit difficult if the Patrol is your only way to get to a bolt shop! Sorry, can't help with dimensions.

Tony

[benno_84]

Well after a heap of fiddling about with a spanner and socket I got one of the bolts out of the starter and headed down to get the shop to match it. Bolted everything back on and tightened it up and sure enough the truck starts perfectly! So after all that thinking the fix was only $2.00 and about 15minutes worth of work. It just goes to show that the old KISS principle is well worth taking note of. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post, If I had needed to replace the ring gear it would have been very helpful.

Lloyd