Lost in the outback

[Stumpjumper]

There are many great places to go in Australia, some close to population centers and others more remote. For those people who travel to the remote areas their wellbeing depends on their vehicle, they rely on that vehicle carrying them into and back from their destinations. The water it carries and its supplies of food, bedding and shelter permit the traveller to these places to survive in the normally harsh conditions.
GPS can tell you where you are and which direction to go, a simple compass or even landmarks can assist in identifying your location……….
Laverton WA,
Lost prospectors have proven to be a persistent problem for Laverton Police, with more than 15 reported rescues over the past 18 months.
If you lose the vehicle for what ever reason you are in serious trouble, you are on your own with whatever you have with you.
Why are you separated from the vehicle? Well many are the reasons and each story is different. One guy found a gold nugget got excited and kept going until he was well and truly lost. Lost for 5 days nearly died.
Walking from camp just going to try the ridge, going for a short walk to check out a rock outcrop, all these reasons and more in a part of the world where all the trees look the same and often there’s no clear view to the horizon.
This is not the vehicle breaking down drama its just the people have left the vehicle to go wandering about and then cant find the way back to camp.

GPS batteries do go flat, clouds can hide the sun and rocks cannot keep footprints.
Check these sites for more details.
http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t7152-lost-out-bush
http://www.cairnsconnect.com/visitor/gettinglost.php
http://goaustralia.about.com/od/practicalinformation/a/outbacksurvival.htm

I am a gold prosector and I have lost the vehicle on occasions, once south of Maytown QLD on the Palmer and again couple of hundred kms NNE of Laverton WA. So take all precautions and be careful when you’re out there.

Lets hear your ideas on how to make it easier to find the way back to the car.( Other than a police helicopter).

I thought of a few.
Don’t go bush alone……then you could listen for a VB tinny being cracked at beer o clock!
If the horn could start tooting when it got dark.
Strobe light flashes when it gets dark
Dinner GONG (Smelling eggs and Bacon)

No serious guys...............have you got any ideas?

[the ferret]

Agreed,
A hand held GPS, mark the vehicle as MOB, and you will find your way back.
A GPS and an EPIRB are a must for outback travel.
There is a GPS that you can wear like a watch.
Cheers, the ferret.

[rkinsey]

IMHO.. The only way not to get yourself lost in the bush is good pre trip preparation.

Detailed paper maps of the area (batteries dont go flat in these babies..!!) Study not only how you are going to get to the area in question, but study the area thoroughly.

Identify landmarks such as buildings, farms, mountains or large hills with transmitter towers.

Major rivers and streams (Where they start and where they end up!)

Take a compass with you or learn to tell which way North is without one (Use the Sun and a watch. Place the reflection of the Sun at 12 o'clock and halfway between 12 o'clock and the hour hand in a clockwise direction, is North.)

If you are unfamilliar with the terain, stay within site of your vehicle or camp site. Stop every 15 mins to get your bearings until you are familiar with the area.

Always take a day pack with you with enough supplies to last 2 days at least. I alwasy take a backpack with water, food, matches, rope and plastic sheet whenever I take the family walking in the bush and I have them carry supplies as well.

Understanding your surroundings is the only way of staying safe in this very big country of ours.

Cheers,

Rob

[Sir Roofy]

gday stumpy. I'm not a prospector so dont generally do the wandering you do, however i do head outback from time to time, and sometimes alone. You are spot on saying your vehicle is your life out there and i like the idea of mounting a strobe light on your vehicle however this would only work if you were still in direct line of sight with the vehicle. I would think the simplest solution would to be always carry a handheld gps and spare batteries. Set the gps to show tour track and then follow it back to your car when it comes time to return. In fact i would probably carry 2 sets of spare batteries just to be sure. Not sure what else might be better, perhaps tie a strobe light to a helium balloon and float it 50m above your car? Lol.

plassy mate what about a compass in your kit as well,work out where you are before leaving camp
then come back on that bearing

[the evil twin]

Yep, as Rob said above take paper maps and a compass and know how to use them. My compass never leaves the car and i always have paper maps of where i am. I dont have gps mapping, it makes you lazy and you cant navigate by them.

They certainly are the lazy navigators godsend and I always have a compass with me as well... but I am curious about the "can't navigate by them"

Navigation wise, what can't a GPS do that a paper map can?

My GPS's (or should it be GPII) will all do distance, bearing (true, grid, mag), route profile, X track, T.A.E. isn't affected by Mag Deviation and the back track function is very, very handy as well... plus never have to fart around doing a resection. :trink13:

Flat batteries are a bitch tho :1092:

[the evil twin]

snip....

but i would think you wouldnt be navigating anyway unless your gps had sh@t itself, in which case you'll need to know your way around a compass and paper map.



Hi cobber,

Ain't that the truth... :clapping:

Soooo... Stumpies challenge to us is finding your way back to the vehicle and in 95% of WA's bush that is a real hassle if you get geographicall embarrased (Lost).

I teach Navigation in the SES and get to do my share of searchs as does DX Grunt. A couple of things about the WA Goldfields is...
You can't see the horizon or the features for the scrub...
You can't climb a tree because there isn't any...
You miss the vehicle by 50 metres then you probably won't see it in the scrub...
There are no power lines or fences and 1 railway line...
There are about 3 mapped roads for every 1 gazillion squre kilometres...
There are about 1 gazillion 'old' vehicle tracks for every 3 roads...
There are a lot of Mine Haul Roads but they invariably are not on the maps but are on leases where you normally aren't...
Every one of those vehicle tracks looks EXACTLY the same as the next one...
Every hill is close to the same height so you can't tell if the one your standing on is different to the ones you can see or which is which on the map...
Every dry watercourse you cross looks EXACTLY the same (there are no rivers or creeks)...
It's almost impossible to walk a decent compass heading by yourself (there are some good tricks you can use if there is a couple of you)...

As Stumpjumper says, it is a real challenge in that sort of country.

[DX grunt]

I’m not an expert in bush survival or bush survival techniques. The info I have supplied is from my life’s skills, knowledge and experience.

This information is provided in good faith, and is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Here’s a handy website with lots of great info.
http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Portals/11/PDFs/AidsToSurival_2007.pdf

Info you should consider leaving behind, with somebody you trust:
 Your full name
 Your nickname/s
 Your date of birth
 Your current residential address
 Your current business address
 Bank’s name and branch (you decide if you want to hand your account details over)
 Your mobile/landline/satellite phone number
 Your contactable email (skype, ect) address
 Your height
 Your weight
 All marks, scars, tattoos and piercings
 List all the medication (prescribed or otherwise) you’re on, and the frequency you take it
 What are you allergic to?
 If you wear a medic alert bracelet, what is its colour, number, and which part of your body do you wear it?
 The name and address of your local doctor
 A list of all sicknesses, illnesses, injuries and diseases you have
 The name and address of your dentist
 Make, model, colour, registration number and any accessories fitted to your vehicle
 Your HF radio callsign (HF selcal)
 What HF radio channels you will be operating on
 Who and what times you will be doing your HF radio skeds with
 What communications equipment you will be carrying with you (eg. UHF/AM CB, mobile phone, satellite phone, HF radio, laptop
 If carrying an EPIRB, the number of it
 If taking a pet, its name, make, model colour and age, Local Government Authority animal registration number
 Is your pet microchipped? What’s the number?
Very recent pictures of:….
 Yourself (including marks, scars, tattoos)
 Your pet/s
 Your vehicle (4 pics –1 of each side and 1 x front and back – INCLUDING the number plate/s)
 Your vehicle fully kitted up and ready to go.
 Your campsite, the way you’d normally set it up/leave it

The bush can be as cruel and untrusting as the sea. All caution is to be exercised, before, during and after your adventure.

I’d also suggest you consider wearing flouro, glow in the day and night clothing. It should immensely help any rescuers, day and night.

If you change your route, tell somebody, BEFORE you start that route.

Feel free to copy and paste this list, and fill in the missing gaps. Trust me, it will go a long way to helping the emergency services locate and identify you, in your time of need.

Take care out there, and remember, proper planning prevents poor performance.

Rossco

[the evil twin]

Just to give you an idea this is a pic from a WW II Aircraft crash site I was at last week out on the fringe of the Goldfields. My Patrol is less than 40 metres away just off the track in the upper left

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff98/theeviltwin06/PB170939.jpg

The Pilot walked for four days and was found alive. The Navigator was never found.

The country can best be described as "gently undulating". You usually cannot see the next crest from the one you are standing on and it goes for miles and miles and miles and... anyway I am sure you get my drift.

The track in the pic goes about another 50 metres and thats it. So if you wander away and then walk back and miss by 60 metres you will just keep walking till you get to the next track (if there is one) by the time you suss out someone has either stolen your truck or it's the wrong track it can get real confusing real fast.

[Silver]

All good and interesting info here.

My small contribution is to suggest that the minute you suspect you might not know where you are, is to stop, sit down, take a breath, and think things through, rather than keeping on walking.

[the ferret]

I am one who snaps a branch or twig, or sticks a piece of dunny paper in the ground when I think things could change and there is a chance of becoming lost.
Lay a few sticks out as an arrow, tie something to a tree.
Cheers, the ferret.

[Bakes]

There are many great places to go in Australia, some close to population centers and others more remote. For those people who travel to the remote areas their wellbeing depends on their vehicle, they rely on that vehicle carrying them into and back from their destinations. The water it carries and its supplies of food, bedding and shelter permit the traveller to these places to survive in the normally harsh conditions.
GPS can tell you where you are and which direction to go, a simple compass or even landmarks can assist in identifying your location……….
Laverton WA,
Lost prospectors have proven to be a persistent problem for Laverton Police, with more than 15 reported rescues over the past 18 months.
If you lose the vehicle for what ever reason you are in serious trouble, you are on your own with whatever you have with you.
Why are you separated from the vehicle? Well many are the reasons and each story is different. One guy found a gold nugget got excited and kept going until he was well and truly lost. Lost for 5 days nearly died.
Walking from camp just going to try the ridge, going for a short walk to check out a rock outcrop, all these reasons and more in a part of the world where all the trees look the same and often there’s no clear view to the horizon.
This is not the vehicle breaking down drama its just the people have left the vehicle to go wandering about and then cant find the way back to camp.

GPS batteries do go flat, clouds can hide the sun and rocks cannot keep footprints.
Check these sites for more details.
http://golddetecting.4umer.net/t7152-lost-out-bush
http://www.cairnsconnect.com/visitor/gettinglost.php
http://goaustralia.about.com/od/practicalinformation/a/outbacksurvival.htm

I am a gold prosector and I have lost the vehicle on occasions, once south of Maytown QLD on the Palmer and again couple of hundred kms NNE of Laverton WA. So take all precautions and be careful when you’re out there.

Lets hear your ideas on how to make it easier to find the way back to the car.( Other than a police helicopter).

I thought of a few.
Don’t go bush alone……then you could listen for a VB tinny being cracked at beer o clock!
If the horn could start tooting when it got dark.
Strobe light flashes when it gets dark
Dinner GONG (Smelling eggs and Bacon)

No serious guys...............have you got any ideas?

G'day stumpjumper, good to see someone finally asks the question before heading out and getting lost. Some good information in your thread from everyone, so I'll add my 2 cents as well. I'm fortunate, I have served with our fine defence force, and have gained alot of knowledge in survival, navigation, communications and the like over the last 19 years. My personal opinion is the six Ps. Prior preparation prevents p*ss poor performance. personally, you can't go past your paper map and compass. GPS should never be relied upon, and I've seen many navigate purely by GPS and not reach their objective. I personally only use my GPS as a secondary device. I always carry an EPIRB in my vehicle and PLB when I'm walking. Good cheap insurance I say. I don't care how long I'm away From my vehicle, I will always carry a small qty of food and water in my pack as well. This was sparked by an accident some time ago where we were away from our vehicle and prevented us from returning for some time. Little things such as leaving your details (as rossco has listed) to actually carrying the right map will get you home to your family. But alas I'm not from the stone age, and have tested quite alot of systems to serve my needs. The best I've seen and used is the Garmin astro320. You have to get them from the U.S but it works a treat. I have modified the dc-40 collar that comes with it and have tested it in jungle, desert and have always returned to the car. Hope this and everyone else's collective knowledge helps

Bakes

[jedskipow]

About all you can do if you are worried about a mate is light a fire with alot of smoke (not setting whole b.....y country on fire) crank the stereo wire the horn on, put ALL ligjts on faceing up a hill and spotlights faceing straight up and retreat to a suitable distance with required achcohol. If satellite ph now is probably a good time to let someone know.
DO NOT LEAVE VECHILE
If you are searching in vechile honk drive then STOP AND LISTEN, about twice as much as you think you need to leave good "paper trail" as suggested so you can find way back and he can follow tracks. Walk across car tracks ans see how easy it to miss them in some country.
I'm no expert either I just thought these things made sense.

[the ferret]

Or just have ya lappy with ya and PM Doggy!!
Nah, but all joking aside, there is a lot to be said about the old dunny paper left in trees or the ground if you need to leave the vehicle.
You can find yer way back, just follow the paper trail lol.
Cheers, the ferret.

[jedskipow]

Leave undies in trees, don't need um any hows

[Bob]

If you take all of the above and condense you would have a great Manual for not getting Lost.

I have one other and that is to take a Pack of Cards and if you get Lost sit down and start to play Solitaire andsome smart B(*^&^%&^ will always come along to show you the next move
RAFLMAO

Seriously some great tips in the above Posts

[benmatters]

yea most of that sounds like my ex-boss in surveying he was a 4x4 person like most 4x4 people who have proplems in the bush if you live on the coast you will all ways have proplems in the outback but people that live in the outback seem to have no proplems with it and dont drive big 4x4 or carry large amounts of stuff, but they do understand the outback because they live and breath it you should always study about what you want to do if you understand the outback then you will have very little proplems with it. My ex- boss was from the coast moved to the outback to do more work it was funny as hell he thought it would be like the coast.

[Waza]

Lots of good stuff, hand held gps, spare batteries, compass, pencil and paper - plot bearing and time taken to a point, changes in direction and time etc. It sure beats guessing, thinking too hard and remembering details where none are obvious. Ground and tree markings are great for confirming backtracking & reducing stress! Take a well stocked daypack too. Hope this helps someone.
Cheers
Waza

[Rob Johnston]

From experience around the Northern Territory trying to find my way across flat desert with no features. I have found that movement at night is much easier, for 2 reasons. The first is because it is much cooler and therefore your body will sweat less whilst moving preventing early onset of dehydration, secondly, I have found in such open featureless terrain the best way to determine direction use using the old faithful southern cross and the 2 pointers to confirm where south is. Even if you have a compass and a map if you can confirm your direction of the stars you can gaurentee success because the stars never lie! Its definetly not as accurate as a map and compass but it can help confirm your direction. Hope this helps

[oncedisturbed]

For those that have never used a map and compass, I would suggest taking a short course on it or take time to learn from those that have done it for sometime.

I remember the 1st navigation lesson I ever taught (how to perform a resection - 2nd hardest lesson in nav to teach) which was basically how to locate your position with no friggen idea where you are, easy enough to once you learnt all the previous parts for nav.

if you are going places where you think there is a possibility of getting lost, as others have said, ensure you have the right gear for where you are goin ie shelter, water, food etc, let people know your movements, look at making up a survival kit or purchase a pre-made 1 and ensure it is upto the task.

I am not part of the SES at this stage but the old man is in the hills and has been in numerous searches and a lot of the causes are the most simplest things that people will always over look.

[threedogs]

Best book in vic ever printed was the ES map book , but no longer published. as above by all means use your gps but back it up with paper maps every outback trip.
Don't know if everyone knows but they r.
re-grade[re align] outback tracks ALL THE TIME SO YOUR gps I USELESS
Lets get in early to dicuss/debate/argue this, the outback season is nearly finished and the HOT HOLIDAY SEASON is approaching lets make sure Newbies[Hate that term by the way]
an oldies are ready, lets face it ...... someone here will be affected listen , learn, prove me wrong

[oncedisturbed]

that is very true on the changing areas, a 30 year old map if you take into account any magnetic variations etc will still save your hide even more-so with an in-accurate gps (many of them out there) or 1 that is flat. A basic cheap compass will still get you out admittedly not as well as say a Silva or similar compass but enough all the same, many recorded instances where it was nothing but sheer dumb luck that people were found.

[dads tractor]

take a epirb and a 30 metre roll of tin foil and spare batteries .find a clear area and speard the foil out in a cross weighted by rocks or sand turn on epirb and stay put. the foil blanket from youre fist aid kit will assist in your re-hyrdation 2 is better 1 under you for sweat and 1 over you for heat reflection. remenber aircraft will pick up a epirb as well as a sat
.

[lorrieandjas]

take a epirb and a 30 metre roll of tin foil and spare batteries .find a clear area and speard the foil out in a cross weighted by rocks or sand turn on epirb and stay put. the foil blanket from youre fist aid kit will assist in your re-hyrdation 2 is better 1 under you for sweat and 1 over you for heat reflection. remenber aircraft will pick up a epirb as well as a sat
.

Hi mate. Check out this link on EPIRBs and PLBs. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?16178-EPIRBs-and-PLBs&p=294170

One thing to note is that while aeroplanes can pick up the 406Mhz signal and in flying training you are taught to report any signal on 406 or 121.5Mhz I reckon there is only a 20% chance of your signal being picked up. S&R will pick it up though. That said the silver cross idea is a bloody good one.

Jas

[dads tractor]

If you need a red truck at mackay ask twr on 124.5 to change to 131.0 and we will help

[Coldcomfort]

Hi mate. Check out this link on EPIRBs and PLBs. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?16178-EPIRBs-and-PLBs&p=294170

One thing to note is that while aeroplanes can pick up the 406Mhz signal and in flying training you are taught to report any signal on 406 or 121.5Mhz I reckon there is only a 20% chance of your signal being picked up. S&R will pick it up though. That said the silver cross idea is a bloody good one.

Jas

I have been flying for 20 years now.... geeez my arms are sore!! I have only once been asked by flight controllers to tune to 121.5 and tell them the signal strength.... There was a EPIRB that had been set off somewhere near Casino NSW. I was close to Casino at the time. The emergency services were having all sorts of trouble locating it. Those days were before GPS satellite location technology. Things have improved heaps since then . The only aircraft that will pick up an emergency beacon are those that have multiple radios installed. Usually the stand by radio would be tuned to 121.5. So dont ever think that any old plane will hear your call for help.

[NP99]

If all the above is unfamiliar to you.........NEVER do it alone

[pascal1]

well, when you realize that you are lost, the first thing to do is to to mark the place you are and make sure you'll be able to get back to it, that is the first place you know you are lost and probably the closest one to the next place you won't be lost anymore, so make sure to identify it and use it as the center of your search perimeter.
the worst thing to do would be to start wandering and adding unknown location to unknown locations, then deepening yourself into confusion.
then you may decide to explore in concentric circles around this center or launch strait forward and back to center explorations in successive directions, always clearly mark what you have done and where you have been, else you would be confused and duplicate searches,
draw your own map of this territory and systematically search it
your best friend would be your brain, not your legs

[threedogs]

With the efficiency of Leds these days it would be very easy to install a strobe led on top of a pole/antenna.
This would use next to no power and be visible for miles, {night time}. Today you really have no excuse for being lost EPIRB etc
are very affordable, satelite phones, VHF, UHF, even upper /lower side band CB 27mhtz, Take plenty of water tarp for shade , stay put

[oncedisturbed]

Last night 3 french tourists broke down 8kms down the gun barrel whe the motor died. Had no supplies, cb, sat phone etc only a mobile. They had to wait until this morning to be recovered.


Really pays to make sure you have yourself kitted out.


Tap, Tap, Taparoo

[macca]

With the efficiency of Leds these days it would be very easy to install a strobe led on top of a pole/antenna.
This would use next to no power and be visible for miles, {night time}. Today you really have no excuse for being lost EPIRB etc
are very affordable, satelite phones, VHF, UHF, even upper /lower side band CB 27mhtz, Take plenty of water tarp for shade , stay put

Was thinking about that only today...
A 360deg strobe light fitted to antenna or sand flag.
Funny the stuff that runs through the noggin when doin the K's
Poor bloody foreigners, look at a map of Aussie, highways go every where, just not all suit your 2litre fuel saver they use at home.