Patrol MQ restoration!

[boggy2006]

hi, hope this is the correct section for this.

Having just bought a Patrol MQ, I thought I'd start a restoration thread as I intend to do some work on it to get it back on the road and I reckon I'll have lots of questions too. Firstly lets start with a few photos!

[GUtsy ute]

Looks good boggy,
Certainly a good one to do up.
Keep us posted with plenty of pics and what you have done to it.

cheers

[boggy2006]

A few details;

it's a 1981 3.3 turbo diesel, 5 speed manual, front and rear detroit lockers, rock crawler low range gear box, 12000lb winch, cargo barrier, lots of spares including an intercooler to be added in the future. 3" body lift, to be removed in the future after I've cleaned up underneath and repainted the floor and chassis

....and now for the questions!!

1) The Patrol looks like it's on its 3rd (and possibly best) engine as there's a LPG plate on the bulkhead (presumably for a previous petrol engine) and the last owner had it registered with a non-turbo diesel engine (registration cancelled now), the current one being a turbo. Is this going to be a problem when I come to start a new registration on it, as it's not been registered with this engine before?

2) The seats in it look too nice (and comfortable) to be the originals. Could this be a problem for the roadworthy and will I need to get them engineered? If so, is this difficult and would it be better to get an original pair instead? Do GQ seats fit directly or would they also have to be engineered?

3) The suspension is sagged a bit on the drivers side. Could this be responsible for it pulling to the left, or is that down to wheel alignment - if so, I presume the tie rod is the only adjustable thing. Also, it pulls to the left on acceleration, I've read that this could be due to the detroit locker locking up on the rear, does anyone have experience of this?

4) The sills have got (black) checker plate riveted on over them, but I can just see that they've taken a few wacks in their time and are a bit dented underneath. Will they want to check under the plating for the roadworthy and are dents allowed?

Thanks!

[YNOT]

1) The engine shouldn't be a problem as it was a factory option in that model. You will need to let the RTA know the new engine number so they can update their records.

2) Those seats will need to be engineered. Not sure about fitting GQ seats.

3) Pulling left could be worn steering components, caster (wheel alignment) or tyres. It could be related to the sagged suspension but unlikely.
Pulling left on accel could be a lot of things, check all the suspension components for wear.

4) Dents are OK but the checker plate may be hiding structural rust which is not OK.

Tony

[boggy2006]

Thanks guys,

the initial plans so far are;

1) remove all the mud from body/chassis/wheel arches - done about 3/4 of this so far and I'm amazed how good the chassis, outriggers and bodywork are for a 30 year old vehicle. Barely any rust on the chassis, despite its hard life. Inner sills seem fine. A few small holes in the rear wheel arches where the mud has gathered, but nothing too bad yet. Much better than many younger cars I've worked on in the past.

2) remove the checker plate and rubber wheel arch extenders to see what they're hiding, clean up and fix up what ever is underneath.

3) Thoroughly clean the underbody and chassis and repaint.

4) remove the carpet and boot lining to check for any damp/rot. Possibly leave carpet out as it's mainly going to be used off road.

5) think what to do about seats!

6 to 1000) .....to follow

The engine is sweet as! Many less strange noises than my 2002 Falcon, and that's a petrol! Is the pull knob normal to stop it? Very quaint!

[growler2058]

Mate I love it!! Words that come to mind, weapon, beasty, Mad Max.:-)

[boggy2006]

.....would look good in matt black?!!!

[growler2058]

Bloody oath scare youg children hhaaha

[Michelle]

Looks alot neater than my ol girl lol, I will be watching this build too good luck :)
Michelle

[nowoolies]

looking good mate
keep those piccies comming ,........we luv piccies

[boggy2006]

Thanks for all your comments, all comments and advice are welcome.

Spent the last couple of evenings removing the rubber wheel arch extenders and all the checker plating to see what lies beneath, removing all the mud from the body and chassis and lifting the carpets inside.

The chassis is very solid with little rust, but it is full of dried mud which I would like to remove, but could be a challenge due to the limited access holes.

The bottoms of the doors and sills are a bit dented, but nothing too major. Is it worth trying to pull the dent out or just leave them? (It doesn't have to look perfect, just decent for the roadworthy).

There are a couple of holes in the rear wheel arches that have been patched up previously, but nothing too major. The worst hole is to the rear of the drivers side sill where the wheel arch joins. Looks like the spot welds have rusted out (see photo). Does this need re-welding, or would a quick patch up do? Not sure if it's classed as structural.

The sound proofing in the rear was smelly and damp, couldn't see a leak anywhere dispite the heavy rain this morning, so cleaned it out back to the metal, no rust fortunately. The front foot wells were also muddy, smelly and damp, so I lifted the carpet and removed the damp sound proofing. Found a trickle of water entering where the steering shaft goes through the bulk head, so will need to seal that up. No rust again fortunately. The sills are full of mud, which has probably entered through the large drain holes underneath. I'll flush this out and maybe put rubber bungs in them for offroading in the future.

The aircon works and is actually cold, which amazes me! None of the instruments on the cluster work. Hoped it was just a fuse, but can't see any blown so will have to pull it out. The indicators also don't work plus there's plentyof dodgy wiring under the bonnet due to being on it's 3rd engine, so will get that all sorted.

The front 6 body mount bolts all have nuts on, so hopefully shoundn't be too much of a problem. The bolt head can all be accessed. The rear 2 are captive nuts with no direct access to the nuts, but there are some small holes nearby which I've been spraying WD40 through ready for taking them off, along with any other bolts I might be undoing, suspension, shocks etc.

I don't have any rubber body mounts and don't fancy paying $300+ for 8 bits of rubber. Any advice on where I can get something cheaper?

I think I've worked out why it's pulling to the left under power. The rear detroit locker locks up under acceleration and although the rear tyres are the same printed size, they are different makes and the right tyre is notably larger, 74cm vs 72.5cm for the left, which means it travels 5cm further for every rotation. With a locked diff, this would mean it would pull to the left. Hopefully this is the reason, I wil try identical tyres on the rear as some point in the future.

Also need to make up a rear bar.

I also started the engine from cold (it's always been warm the last couple of times), fired up no problem, not too much smoke.

Does anyone know if your allowed to just have one seat in the car? I was thinking about removing the passenger seat, it would make a nice spot for the eski!

Here's a few progress pics....

[Finly Owner]

Not to disagree with the guru, but, I thought bucket seats being swapped for buckets were ok, no plate needed? And I thought the SD33T only became available 84/85 but can't find any thing in my manuals to prove/disprove this. So Tony is probably right.


Tim

[YNOT]

You can run it as a single seater if you want but you need to get it engineered and blue plated for the new seating capacity. Best in my opinion to get it registered with the current seating capacity, and "tempoaraily" remove the seats afterwards.

I wouldn't bother fixing small dents, it's not a show pony.

Tony

[MQ MAD]

The seating issue , depending on relevant state rules are ,
Altering seating capacity thats on the ID plate however relevant (even removing the third row seat in a wagon) will need a mod plate
Changing a ute from a 3 seater to a 2 seater the same
Aftermarket seats will need to be mod plated,irrelevant of ID plate seating capacity
Check your ID plate , being a SWB it will be either a 4 seater or a 5 seater
All the seats need to be fitted unless a mod plate is fitted
Being an MQ (round headlights) it would have been IF a factory diesel an SD33 n/a
The turbo motors were the later (upgraded MQ) referred as the MK
Cant see the turbo donk being an issue,depending wether the chassis to engine mount brackets havent been removed and rewelded or the motor has been moved within the engine bay
(The petrol and diesel chassis to engine mounts are in different positions on the chassis)
Best to consult the relevant authorities in YOUR state as all the states have different rules

[Finly Owner]

Most RWC/Safety Cert/Pink Slip certifiers would check seat capacity on plate and confirm that it's correct inside vehicle. They normally check for seat stability by shaking it. If it stays rigid and feels attached to it's mountings, it gets a pass for that part of the test. Then they check for seat structure: no tears, no metal framepresent (has cushionin place), no wire poking through. It is acceptable to cover seats with AS/NZS standard seat covers to camoflage seat change. Most RWC guys wouldn't know what seats came out in Patrols, and there is no rule against having different colour seats, as you may have had to replace damaged seats!

I discussed some of these points today with another knowledgable person and confirmed my teachings from when I worked in a licensed RWC workshop. Many Lic RWC guys make black and white rules where the law is actually grey! Seats only really have to be Mod Plated if changing seating capacity or anchorage, which are both different Codes.

Tim

[boggy2006]

thanks guys. I found this on the Vicroads website:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/PermitsModificationsAndDefects/Modifications/RemoveAddReplaceSeats.htm

Removing seats
The requirements for removing seats will vary depending on:
the original number of seating positions
the new number of seating positions
which seats are removed
when the vehicle was manufactured
An Approval Certificate is not required if:
the number of original seating positions was less than 10
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 2 - 3 seats in the front row only
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 4 - 9 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1970
more than 12 seating positions have been reduced to 10-12 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1986
the number of seating positions does not reduce to below 13
If the modification is not listed above an Approval Certificate is required.

I take that as saying no approval is required for reducing the seats from 4 to 2. They also refer to VSI 19, but this makes no mention of removing seats. But it does mention replacement seats and they should be an option offered by the manufacturer, unless you get VASS approval. Is it usual to buy VASS approved aftermarket seats, are they readily available? But then they may not fit as directly as the current ones.

On the engine side of things, I found this;

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/PermitsModificationsAndDefects/Modifications/NotifyingVicRoadsOfChangesAndModifications.htm

Change of engine
1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle
The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine have been completed.

You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre to have the vehicle's engine inspected to confirm the new engine details. No appointment is required. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form.

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form and provide VicRoads with:
a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine

I think #1 applies here, but how would I go about getting a registered person to sign a declaration that the engine was an option in that vehicle? Also, would I have to because, when I did the vehicle check before getting the Patrol, I gave Vicroads the reg plate number and all the information they had was the engine number (which was the non-turbo one fitted previously). So they had nothing tying together the engine and VIN because they didn't have the VIN. So assuming nothings been re-welded (I'll have to check tonight), when I go to re-register the car and give them the VIN, engine number and (hopefully) RWC, how would they know the engine was new in the Patrol? Unless they check the engine number on the database and find it was already registered against another vehicle's VIN, which is possible I guess. Maybe I'll phone them and check what details they have against the new engine number, ie if it's already tied to another VIN.

[MQ MAD]

Two different interpretations (albeit different states ) for the ruling
Any aftermarket or replacement seats MUST be approved in QLD
Ive heard that some RWC blokes wont pass the seats IF they are different colours as they arent what the car came with, picky i know , but hey its there licence on the line
Any seating alteration as i mention in QLD must be approved
I couldnt get a RWC for my old MQ 7 seater as the rear seat was removed, either had to source a rear seat ,as i done, or get a mod plate to go from a 7 seater to a 5 seater

With regards to a previous engine conversion , this can depend on the relevant laws again, another each state has different rules
Just because an engine was in 1,000 years ago , the rego has lapsed and now for whatever the reason it will have to pass the stringent road laws, hence why alot when selling , as is , no rego,as most would never pass the new rules
I know of a bloke who got nailed for a 350 chev in a HQ holden , even tho it was a factory option on that model
Rules are changing and getting tuffer
Dont ring Vic roads, go see them, get as much in print or writing as you can , but many state road authorities palm it all of to accredited engineers now,viods them from liability

[boggy2006]

thanks for the info again MQ mad, just trying to gather as much as possible so going in armed is better than clueless. All I can do is get the obvious bits done, then take it in for a trial run and work on whatever it fails on.