Pyro Readings

[philws]

Hi everyone,

I had my first run on the freeway with the 3.0L with a pyro fitted. I was driving out to the Melbourne airport and maxed at 538, that was driving at 100 in 5th babying it, no big hills and just doing what I had to maintain speed. I regularly see 400 driving around town, it generally spikes as I am changing up from 3rd to 4th, changing at about 2600-2700 rpm with light throttle. What has been everyone else's experiance?

Cheers

Phil

[MudRunnerTD]

if you saw 538c in 5th gear babying it on the freeway doing 100 then you need a tune or there is another problem i would have thought. You should not see that kind of number other than at the end of a long drag in third or a long drag in fourth through to gear change. Quick shift will not see that kind of numbers and really needs to be dragging the back side out of it to get the numbers that high.

When i say high, it is not of concern but is higher than it should be with that kind of driving.

Have you got a boost controller on it? have you got a boost gauge on it? time for a Dyno tune i'd say. Pyros are great for telling you what is actually happening. Believe it. Get some advice on a dyno mate. Dont go there without a Boost controller and gauge though.

Good luck.

[philws]

I haven't got a boost gauge yet but it is on the list, I've only had the troll for a couple of weeks. I have just got a catch can for it which I have to fit then I was going to do the boost gauge. Does over boosting cause the temps to spike? I am still trying to figure out the cause of the overheat, from what I have read it seems to be related to running rich due to either a dirty MAF sensor sending incorect readings to the ECU or to the intake pipe being dirty?

Cheers

Phil

[suvrd28]

That temps too high for easy driving, check your air filter is clean or go for a K&N filter which can be washed and reused i did(dirty air filter will make it starve for air and make it rich).
I would think it smokes a lot with that kind of temp.
Wash your MAF with brake cleaner and let it dry before use( dont use carby cleaner to clean the MAF i found out the hard way it can damage the sensor)

[GRA.GU]

Does sound a bit high for what I assume is flat road, but you haven't said which 3.0l. Is it CRD? I drive an 07 CRD which consistently sees 100C more than a mate's DI. So 450 for him = 550 me. Temps above 500 are not uncommon on CRDs, and many take them over 600 for short periods. I start to "take interest"at about 550, and back off properly when I see 600, but it does make you wonder what those without pyros are asking of their engines. Having said that I have heard that there is a far higher temperature tolerance designed into in the CRD, but I'd rather err on the side of safety.

[philws]

My apologies it's an 03 GUIII ZD30. Also this morning I have installed a new genuine nissan air filter and cleaned the MAF. when cleaning the MAF though I did it over a clean white cloth and there was no black whatsoever coming off the MAF with the spray (CRC MAF Sensor Cleaner) so I presume that it was already clean, the air filter had been dirty though. On the way over to work this morning after doing the above there has been no change in temps if anything it seems to be getting hotter quicker! I hit 450 on the way from Nth Melb over to Eastern suburbs, no freeways just a spot of 80k. I wasn't thrashing it but I did have an empty 10x5 tandem trailer on the back. If anyone can post their average temps i.e. cruising in 4th at 60 on flat or up hill, would be great. Cheers

[MudRunnerTD]

350 and happy mate for a 4.2 but i would expect around the 350 mark for any form of happy cruising on any car would be kinda average. Is your Pyro pre or post turbo? I am assuming Post Turbo.

Your temps are off mate, there is no two ways about it. I would prioritise getting it on a Dyno with a good tuner

[Ben-e-boy]

do your egts drop when higher gear is selected how high do you rev the motor

[Ben-e-boy]

My apologies it's an 03 GUIII ZD30. Also this morning I have installed a new genuine nissan air filter and cleaned the MAF. when cleaning the MAF though I did it over a clean white cloth and there was no black whatsoever coming off the MAF with the spray (CRC MAF Sensor Cleaner) so I presume that it was already clean, the air filter had been dirty though. On the way over to work this morning after doing the above there has been no change in temps if anything it seems to be getting hotter quicker! I hit 450 on the way from Nth Melb over to Eastern suburbs, no freeways just a spot of 80k. I wasn't thrashing it but I did have an empty 10x5 tandem trailer on the back. If anyone can post their average temps i.e. cruising in 4th at 60 on flat or up hill, would be great. Cheers

at 100-110 km on flatish roads i can see between 280-350 degrees. on a hill in 5th I have never got the above 450 degrees

chugging around town or in a 60 -80 km zone I rarely get them above 200 degrees. unless i give it some and I may hit 300 odd.

[philws]

Thanks Ben-e-boy, I usually change between 2600 and 2800. light throttle all the way. regular driving it is always in the 300s gets there bloody quick from take off, again with really light throttle.

[MudRunnerTD]

Thanks Ben-e-boy, I usually change between 2600 and 2800. light throttle all the way. regular driving it is always in the 300s gets there bloody quick from take off, again with really light throttle.

What brand of Pyro and where is it plumbed??. I am with Beneboy, cruising and i am more likely in the 200s somewhere

[philws]

Thanks MudRunnerTD, do you know a good dyno tuner in melb? also I assume I should have a boost gauge fitted before having it tuned? Do you know what sought of $$$ I will be up for to get it tuned. Many thanks to all who have helped.

[MudRunnerTD]

The guys at the dyno dont need you to have a boost gauge, they will measure their own boost. It is a great time though to calibrate your boost gauge with theirs though to make sure when you drive away what you think is your max boost actually is. A manual boost controller is an absolute must though.

An option is to have them fit a boost controller as part of the tune, it will cost you extra but then you have it and next time you dyno it you wont need to pay again for that.

Your probably around the $350 mark with the boost controller and then around $120 every visit after that. (once a year or so) (or as needed) will change the car forever and sort out those temps for you.

[Chaz]

Phil,

Your exhaust temps aren’t too far from normal for a stock standard ZD30 Patrol. Unfortunately, what you are not seeing is the relationship between boost and exhaust temps. If you had a boost gauge fitted, you would see that your boost drops when the temps increase. If you get off and back on the throttle, the boost rises and temps begin to decrease. You’ll see this after you fit a boost gauge, buit until then I wouldn’t be too concerned about those temps unless they exceed 550, where it would be wise to back off a bit.

There is nothing that you can "Tune" on a ZD30 Patrol unless you have a tunable chip fitted or manual boost controller. Some tuners adjust the VNT actuator, but it shouldn't be necessary unless you block the EGR. All you can really do on a dyno is read power and torque figures, but you should make sure that the air filter isn't dirty or blocked and that you're MAF voltages are within range. The ZD30's ECU tunes itself as you drive, so you would be better off to invest in a diagnostic tool such as an ECUTalk module or PC interface cable, so that you can monitor your sensors yourself, take and compare logs and read diagnostic trouble codes.

[MudRunnerTD]

Phil,

Your exhaust temps aren’t too far from normal for a stock standard ZD30 Patrol. Unfortunately, what you are not seeing is the relationship between boost and exhaust temps. If you had a boost gauge fitted, you would see that your boost drops when the temps increase. If you get off and back on the throttle, the boost rises and temps begin to decrease. You’ll see this after you fit a boost gauge, buit until then I wouldn’t be too concerned about those temps unless they exceed 550, where it would be wise to back off a bit.

There is nothing that you can "Tune" on a ZD30 Patrol unless you have a tunable chip fitted or manual boost controller. Some tuners adjust the VNT actuator, but it shouldn't be necessary unless you block the EGR. All you can really do on a dyno is read power and torque figures, but you should make sure that the air filter isn't dirty or blocked and that you're MAF voltages are within range. The ZD30's ECU tunes itself as you drive, so you would be better off to invest in a diagnostic tool such as an ECUTalk module or PC interface cable, so that you can monitor your sensors yourself, take and compare logs and read diagnostic trouble codes.

I dont know too much about the ZD30 and what Chaz has written is likely to be great advice. Note that i told you though to have a manual boost controller fitted by the tuner or its a waste. Its like trying to make a pizza with only one hand. You need a boost controller to do any real adjustment.

Alternatively and furthermore i'd be going with Chaz's advice mate. If your not up for sorting the ECUTalk yourself see if you can find a dyno tuner that has the interface and can tune with it.

Regardless, the thread is certainly telling you that what you see is not the norm and you need to get it sorted. Go get the boost gauge and move forward.

[philws]

Thanks to both Mudrunner and Chaz for all the advise. If I've got this right what I should do is get a boost gauge fitted as a priority, then after having a chance to see what's going on with boost I should block the EGR at the same time fitting a manual boost controller and then get the whole lot dyno'd and tuned (doing the last bit on the same day as I understand that blocking the EGR plays with boost). does this sound like the way to go? Also I will be going away this weekend with the trailer loaded so it will give me a good chance to see the upper end of whats going on, I am a little bit worried that I am going to hit 600 very quickly as there are some long ascents (heading out to the strezleckies in gippsland). Cheers

[Chaz]

Hi MudrunnerTD,
I guess it’s normal for us to compare the ZD30 with a conventional or old school diesel engine, but when it comes to EGT’s, the ZD will usually run higher temps and this is mainly due to its emission control system. I recon if a RD42 had a 400cpsi cat converter and large volumes of EGR it too would run much higher EGT’s and perhaps wouldn’t be quite as reliable as they are known to be.
It’s well proven that without the emission control equipment, the ZD does run much lower EGT’s and perhaps even lower than some earlier engines because it’s much harder to over fuel a ZD than an older tec diesel without the electronics.
It’s interesting to see some of the EGT levels that many of the newer diesel engines are getting up to, particularly when the DPF regenerates itself. I think the days of seeing 500K km diesels are long gone.

Phil,
You're taking steps in the right direction. It would be good to have it all done at once, although it's not so bad to do it in stages so that you can see the benifit of each mod. The manual boost controller along with EGR block will have the biggest effect on your EGT's, but a good free flowing exhaust will also give significant benifits.

Cheers and have a good trip on the weekend.

[philws]

Thanks Chaz, as I just got the troll I don't know if the boss will sign off on a whole heap of mods. As it is getting permission to have my NADS in is tough enough:redface:

[philws]

Ok after the trip away I saw huge temps, up to 700 gulp! it seemed to get worse the longer I drove. On a flat at 100 with trailer the temp was at 480 hills saw it hitting 550 even with me slowing down to 80, I stopped a couple of times to try and let it cool down but as soon as I took off again the temps would be high in the 400s.
Could someone please tell me if the pyro is fitted pre or post turbo? I am really hoping it is pre...

[patch697]

Ok after the trip away I saw huge temps, up to 700 gulp! it seemed to get worse the longer I drove. On a flat at 100 with trailer the temp was at 480 hills saw it hitting 550 even with me slowing down to 80, I stopped a couple of times to try and let it cool down but as soon as I took off again the temps would be high in the 400s.
Could someone please tell me if the pyro is fitted pre or post turbo? I am really hoping it is pre...

By the pic it looks as though its pre turbo.

My question is why were you hoping it was?

[Sir Roofy]

by the pic it looks as though its pre turbo.

My question is why were you hoping it was?

im with patch on this one

[philws]

if it is pre-turbo shouldn't the temps be higher than post? I had thought it was between 50-100 degrees hotter if the gauge was pre turbo?

[Sir Roofy]

if it is pre-turbo shouldn't the temps be higher than post? I had thought it was between 50-100 degrees hotter if the gauge was pre turbo?

this could be the reason they are high

[patch697]

if it is pre-turbo shouldn't the temps be higher than post? I had thought it was between 50-100 degrees hotter if the gauge was pre turbo?

EGT's are normally taken post turbo (ie: dump pipe) so the figures your comparing yours to will be post turbo temps not pre turbo. I would suggest fitting your pyro post turbo rather than pre turbo before assessing your EGT's against other comparisons.

[philws]

I bought the car with the pyro already fitted, I'm not sure how difficult or expensive it would be to move it? I will probably try and get some other mods done first and then move it. I'm thinking I need to learn how to do brazing so I can fit all this stuff myself :)

[GUZD]

Patch has a point about the comparisons.

But for a more accurate reading, I think you should leave the thermocouple mounted pre-turbo.

There is a great deal of variance in post turbo EGT's - depending on where the thermocouple is mounted in the dump pipe.

I think that your EGT's are fine. Back off when you hit around momentary EGT's 720 and only start to get concerned when you hit 750. Most highway driving should see you between 550 to 650. Some times she will climb over 700 when you hit a hill, just back off and drop gear.

Don't stress too much about this sort of stuff - just drive it and have fun. I mean, if you didn't have the pyro fitted your EGT's would be soring through the roof (i.e. 750 to 800 +) and you would be doing real damage (whilst you're chugging along at 2500 rpm thinking how nice she goes).

Tbh I can't see how you would melt your engine with max momentary EGT's around the 700 mark.

Cheers,

GUZD

[Arwon]

My temps @ 100 km/h on level ground and no wind @ 10-12 PSI are anywhere between 350 - 400 deg C. 350 would be the norm though.
2008 CRD, roof cage, standard 16" rims and tyres.


Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse the spelling.

[Richard70au]

I have also just bought my patrol and I have heard some bad things about the ZD30 and I watch the pyro like a hawk, what this has acheived for me so far is that I spend more time worrying about the EGT rather than having fun. Mine has a catch can, bost gauge, pyro. My confusion come when the guy I bought the car from said never to take it over 600, when I told my mechanic this he said that it should never go over 500.