Tow balls are not to be used as recovery points

[Woof]

Just putting it up as a stand alone thread, we have to promote this as much as we can...if this saves one life then it is worth it.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?5715-Tow-ball-failure-claims-another-life
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?2238-Coroners-Report-into-Snatch-Strap-death

[Silver]

If ya snatch ya ball, it'll end in tears.

Ball bustin is not a spectator sport, no snatch here.

If you need a pull, leave your ball alone.

I thought the transport Depts could issue this to all 4wd owners as stickers with their rego, to stick above the towbar :-)

And sincere sympathy to the people who have learned this lesson the hard way, and to their families. Such a shame.

[the ferret]

We have been talking about warnings on snatch straps regarding towballs, here it is in black and white, has anyone got a snatch strap with ALL of the mandatory warnings affixed?
If not, why not? as they must be supplied with instuctions and warnings regarding towballs before being imported or sold.
Please take the time to read below, in particular reg. 9

Hi guys, here is the regulation regarding snatch straps and their use.

In particular, regulation 9.

Trade Practices (Consumer Product Safety Standard) (Motor Vehicle Recovery Straps) Regulations 2010


or go to www.productsafety.gov.au and look under 'vehicle accessories'
Mandatory standard- Motor vehicle recovery straps.

[Woof]

Just read that Rod, and to me it gives a false impression on the short introduction, unless you click on the heading and open up the extended section for more information, then you have to scroll down to the bottom of the page where it tells you not to attach snatch straps to tow balls.
Not good enough in my opinion, but thanks for posting up the site mate.
http://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/981402/fromItemId/974643

[the ferret]

Thanks Wayne, I wasn't too sure how to post it.
My main concern is that it is now LAW to have these warnings including towballs on the packet and on the strap!
I would be interested as to weather this is in fact the case as I have not seen any snatch straps with the specific warning about towball attachment.
Cheers Rod.
EDIT: This is the warning that must be a part of the snatch strap after July 2010, I havn't seen it!!

The information must also include the following:

■‘WARNING—Always follow product instructions. It is important to correctly attach the motor vehicle recovery strap to a motor vehicle. A standard tow ball or vehicle tie-down point is not designed for this purpose and may result in the strap or a vehicle component detaching from a motor vehicle and striking and seriously injuring or killing a person. Only attach the strap to a vehicle recovery point or device that is suitably rated for use with the strap. Incorrect use has previously resulted in serious injury and death.’

[Woof]

Just check mine Rod, they are about 3 years old and no mention of tow balls on them, reading the link that you posted labeling was only made mandatory on 1st October 2010.
Would be interested to hear from anyone that has purchased one since then.

[AB]

I have had a couple of members Pm me about this horrible news.

Not sure if this article has been posted somewhere else but here is a link regarding the latest accident over in WA...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/10077878/woman-dies-in-geraldton-towing-mishap/

[gqt]

a mate of mine always throws it over his towball and won't listen no matter how many times i tell him not. i refuse to snatch him from his towball, but others just throw it on their towball to and do a towball to towball snatch. they just won't listen :(

[the evil twin]

I posted up the extract of the Mandatory Statement in response to Doggy's post in my thread here
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?5715-Tow-ball-failure-claims-another-life&p=132468#post132468

All of the Straps I have purchased recently for myself or on behalf of my 4WD club plus the ones in our Wa Gov't Fleet Vehicles and in my SES Unit vehicles come with the mandatory warnings as per the product Standard.

It would be a very very silly person who sold one without them as the fines etc are pretty impressive to say the least let alone the liability if someone got hurt.

Many of our straps are custom made IE not mass produced for ARB, Just straps etc etc. Even when we get a "1 off" it comes with the Warnings.

The problem is that most people just "hook in" and don't bother reading anything. It's human nature unfortunately and what could be simpler... "its a strap with a loop at each end... hmmm what will I loop it over?"

[Silver]

hence my sticker idea.

[the evil twin]

...and not a bad idea Silver.

I thought of writing off to the Gov't Man and telling him to legislate so the Loops couldn't be any bigger than 45mm and you couldn't pass the strap thru.

That means they wouldn't fit over a Towball but would still take a rated Shackle below 8.5 Tons.

That dude who makes those "Safety Shackles" that are designed to go on a Tow Ball is going to get his rrse sued one day for sure. Yes, what he makes is legal, Yes, it says on the strap you shouldn't snatch off the Ball but he is facilitating the ability to do so.

[macca]

Yesterdays Daily Telegraph

Rescue ends in death
A woman died when a rope smashed through a car window during the rescue of a friends car in WA on Saturday.
The 29 year old mother was sitting in the passenger seat while the other car was being towed out of the sand at a beach near Geraldton.
A rope attached to the tow ball of the other car broke, striking the other woman in the throat.

Facts all ignored?
Didn't take oportunity to explain cause and warn of incorrect proceedures.
Missed the mark completely I believe.
Just another dangerous 4WD story I reckon.
Macca

[Silver]

...and not a bad idea Silver.

I thought of writing off to the Gov't Man and telling him to legislate so the Loops couldn't be any bigger than 45mm and you couldn't pass the strap thru.

That means they wouldn't fit over a Towball but would still take a rated Shackle below 8.5 Tons.

That dude who makes those "Safety Shackles" that are designed to go on a Tow Ball is going to get his rrse sued one day for sure. Yes, what he makes is legal, Yes, it says on the strap you shouldn't snatch off the Ball but he is facilitating the ability to do so.

The small loop sounds like a good idea - I wonder what the downsides are - maybe they make them long to reduce the load on the first few sets of stitches? It would also make joining them problematic.

With my sticker idea, I reckon most would go into the bin - but hopefully some that were binned would be read first.

The issue with engaging the Gov't, they are likely to come up with some sort of competency based testing and licensing, on a cost recovery/user paid basis as a condition of a beach permit, forest permit etc. Maybe that's ok, maybe not. Depends on point of view I guess. I think they already do it for offshore tourists on Fraser Island.

[Woof]

What chance have the new 4wd owners got when stuff like this is available to purchase.
I have sent a request to the seller to remove the product, I would encourage others to do the same then maybe they will get the hint...
If it has not been removed in the next few days then I well be taking it further..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RECOVERY-KIT-TOWBALL-SHACKLE-SNATCH-STRAP-AND-BAG-/170673365026?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27bcece022

[the ferret]

I just went there to do the same Wayne, and it's gone!! thank goodness, one person has bought one tho, they should be notified of the danger.
Rod.

[Woof]

I just went there to do the same Wayne, and it's gone!! thank goodness, one person has bought one tho, they should be notified of the danger.
Rod.

Hey Rod, it is still there mate and they are still taking orders..

[the ferret]

Well that's strange, I had the item on ebay up after clicking on the link you posted, it was there so I went to his web address in the item description and was going to advise him, but it said "this item has been removed".
Some have already been sold though and the buyers need to be informed of the danger.
Unsafe products can be reported to the ACCC on www.productsafety.gov.au via the 'Report an unsafe Product' link.
Cheers Rod.
Being an Ebayer myself, I can't really get involved with the seller.

[Woof]

Well that's strange, I had the item on ebay up after clicking on the link you posted, it was there so I went to his web address in the item description and was going to advise him, but it said "this item has been removed".
Some have already been sold though and the buyers need to be informed of the danger.
Unsafe products can be reported to the ACCC on www.productsafety.gov.au via the 'Report an unsafe Product' link.
Cheers Rod.
Being an Ebayer myself, I can't really get involved with the seller.
Thanks Rod, will follow it up tomorrow mate.

[tadpole]

Hi Mate this is a fantastic thread i diddn't realise that the tow balls can come off, I would have assumed that it was rated @ 3500kg so would have been fine. I will let everybody I know the danger, Cheers Glenn

[Woof]

Good on you Glenn, it is surprising that there are a lot of 4wd owners that do not know this mate, so pass the word it could save a life..

[the ferret]

Hi Mate this is a fantastic thread i diddn't realise that the tow balls can come off, I would have assumed that it was rated @ 3500kg so would have been fine. I will let everybody I know the danger, Cheers Glenn

Yeah, that's the problem tadpole, there are so many people like yourself that are not aware of the danger.
It is so simple to loop the strap over the towball as it's the obvious place, but to mobilise 3 ton that is bogged, the towball is the weakest place.
There have been quite a few deaths, but many more near misses over the years that we don't hear about.
The Reece hitch by the way seems to be rated at only 2.500 kg, and that is for towing, not snatching.

It's good that you stumbled on this post as it may just have saved a life.
Cheers Rod.

[the ferret]

This has been up before, but this is what can and sometimes happens,
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/strap.jpg

And using one of these could also kill,, imagine a towball complete with shackle hitting your head at 2 or three hundred ks/hr, it aint gunna stop till it runs out of strap,
even if you are in it's way.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/towballshackle.jpghttp://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/37bb_12.jpg

My opinion of this product is that it could kill, and everything stated above is MY opinion.
Come to your own conclusions.Rod.

[Woof]

Just recieved a email from a mate from The 4WD Show who emailed this clowns and here is their reply:

"This product must be used with a rated towball, it hooks over your towball, if you send me your email address i can send you all our testing infomation."

I would like to know since when is a towball rated as a recovery point...........bloody W@NKER..

My mate is now calling 4WD Action to get them behind us.
Will call ACCC tomorrow after work if nothing happens (thanks Rod)

[Woof]

Just rang the ACCC and it is going to be put to the product safety group asap.............so stay tuned.
If you would like to call them and I encourage everyone to do so, the contact details are here: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217

[Woof]

Makes you think.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/CHRISMAV_2007/Misc/Towball.jpg

[Silver]

I would not use a towball as a snatch point.

It is fascinating to go back to those tests the Kiwi bloke did. The particular towball he tested rated quite well compared with other attachment hooks.

However, clearly all towballs are not created equal.

And the one he tested failed at 8 tonnes, which happens to be the resistance of a Patrol si2e 4wd bogged to the chassis.

Finally, the towball seems to have a strong tendency to fly back to the tow vehicle. Whereas hooks can straighten.

[the ferret]

This happens all over the world,
http://youtu.be/gaeFw_8-ylY
http://youtu.be/m1NnL83UpuQ

[AB]

I tense up when I see those videos...lol

Nice work using the winch cable as a snatch em too!

[Intenseracer]

When it is put to you like it has in this thread you can see how dangerous it really is. This is why i signed up to this forum, thanks guys i will never use my towball again for anything i cherish the lives of my family and friends to much. I will confess i have used it pull out small post with no issues, but never again. THANKS AGAIN.

[Woof]

When it is put to you like it has in this thread you can see how dangerous it really is. This is why i signed up to this forum, thanks guys i will never use my towball again for anything i cherish the lives of my family and friends to much. I will confess i have used it pull out small post with no issues, but never again. THANKS AGAIN.

Thanks mate, please pass the word around to all your mates..the more that know about this the better..

[Woof]

This happens all over the world,
http://youtu.be/gaeFw_8-ylY
http://youtu.be/m1NnL83UpuQ

I knew what was coming Rod, so I moved to the left of the monitor and ducked......................bloody frightening stuff..

[Finly Owner]

And I looked at many more while watching those two. And saw some little kiddies close to very strained winch cable as it broke, luckily, it didn't go towards them. I am starting to fear being recovered!



Tim

[the ferret]

Well, I went to a supercheap store today on a mission and checked out the snatch straps for the obligatory warning lable.
Basicly it said "the buyer should do a 4x4 course and make sure all hook up points are suitable and properly fitted"
NOT good enough in my book.

[YNOT]

And I looked at many more while watching those two. And saw some little kiddies close to very strained winch cable as it broke, luckily, it didn't go towards them. I am starting to fear being recovered!



Tim

In the recoveries I have been involved with the vast majority have not required much force or energy to extract the stuck vehicle, most times it's just a gentle pull through a snatch strap. In these cases if a properly rated strap in good condition is hooked up to proper recovery points with a cable damper over the strap and minimal force is applied, the recovery can be completed in complete safety as none of the elements or components used is stressed to anywhere near their limits. It goes without saying that spectators are moved well clear before any vehicle moves.

The recoveries that you need to fear are where a vehicle is heavily stuck requiring a lot more force to remove it. In these cases you need to do every thing possible to make the recovery as easy as possible (digging around tyres and under vehicle, road building etc) to reduce the force required. If you take the time to assess every situation, plan the recovery properly and use the right equipment (which means going out prepared) there is no reason for the situation to be dangerous.

Tony

[the ferret]

Very True Tony, some of the attempted recoveries of a fully bogged 4x4, I mean half way up the doors in mud, should be winched out.
Some folk think that the snatch strap is the answer in all situations, but they are best used for sand or slippery circumstances.
The mentallity of trying to snatch 3 ton of vehicle bogged upto the steps in mud is beyond me.
They are not a magic potion and this is when things go wrong, especially when the Gung ho or hero attitude is employed.
Rod.

[XTC]

Probably the one good thing which has come out of this recent tragity, is that plenty of discussion has be generated on hundreds of four wheel drive and camping forums across the net, and many people who were not aware of the dangers of various recovery techniques, are now asking a few questions and gaining a bit of knowledge, and will hopefully be doing this stuff a little safer in the future.

[BIGARCH]

the other day I tied two ratchet straps together to pull my truck out of the bog, strap snapped and went straight through the back of a mates 4 runner back window and out the front. was lucky no one got hurt. will be buying a good snatch strap to use in future

[the ferret]

Probably the one good thing which has come out of this recent tragity, is that plenty of discussion has be generated on hundreds of four wheel drive and camping forums across the net, and many people who were not aware of the dangers of various recovery techniques, are now asking a few questions and gaining a bit of knowledge, and will hopefully be doing this stuff a little safer in the future.
So very true and an excellent post I must say.
I had high hopes that the word would be spread and it seems to have been.
BUT there will still be the odd occasion when someone will join two tie down straps in an emergency and come to grief, they will usually break at the knot, and the knot is a very compacted bit of gear to be heading your way, enough to enter your head at the front and leave via the back of your skull.
Many thanks to Doggy for getting the ball rolling on this subject and it's upto all members, not just of this forum but any forum that you may be a member of, to pass the word on and refuse to help anyone who wants to snatch using the towball.
If they don't know about it, put them in the picture, if they still don't agree, leave them to dig their way out.
Hopefully the Google worm will have picked up the discussions and more folk will be alerted to the dangers of TOWBALL recovery.
Ferret.

[GUte]

Using the strap through hitch pin may not the best idea also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcv3yII7zUc

[the ferret]

That's true mate, but at least you wont wear a towball, just the strap as the pin won't break.

[nowoolies]

the other day I tied two ratchet straps together to pull my truck out of the bog, strap snapped and went straight through the back of a mates 4 runner back window and out the front. was lucky no one got hurt. will be buying a good snatch strap to use in future

how did you (tie) the straps together????

[the ferret]

Gotta be a knot, as tiedowns don't have a loop to join with a rolled up magazine.

FAIL!!

This is the safe way to join two straps.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/straps2-1.gif

[nowoolies]

Gotta be a knot, as tiedowns don't have a loop to join with a rolled up magazine.
FAIL!!

i missed the (ratchet (ratsh!t) strap part .......strike me sideways ....huge FAIL

[GUte]

That's true mate, but at least you wont wear a towball, just the strap as the pin won't break.

If you watch the video closely, the strap hasnt actually broken, the pin has sheared (or bent) sending the strap and pin into that vehicles headlight.

Then he getts his recovery hitch insert out lol

[the ferret]

Wow, I've never known the pin to shear using the strap like that, dunno about anyone else but the pin did look a bit flimsy, and he wasn't going at it like a banshi, looked like a pretty steady pull to me.
So there ya go, it can happen.

[BIGARCH]

how did you (tie) the straps together????

they have a metal hook on one end hooked both the metal hooks together and tied knots on the vehicle end.

[the ferret]

they have a metal hook on one end hooked both the metal hooks together and tied knots on the vehicle end.
OHHHHH no, That could be a very big OUCH!!

[nowoolies]

they have a metal hook on one end hooked both the metal hooks together and tied knots on the vehicle end.

strewth mate ..ABSOLUTLY no metal parts in the middle of recovery gear at all ever , sorry sounding like a nag.
and always use a rated recovery point and line dampers and a few of them to boot . even your jumper tied around the strap.
strewth im sounding like my mum hahahahahaahahhaah

[BIGARCH]

strewth mate ..ABSOLUTLY no metal parts in the middle of recovery gear at all ever , sorry sounding like a nag.
and always use a rated recovery point and line dampers and a few of them to boot . even your jumper tied around the strap.
strewth im sounding like my mum hahahahahaahahhaah

No mate, even though u sound like a old woman what your saying is spot on and very wise. unfortunatly for me I learnt the hard way $650 for windows and a mate that if hit him he could be dead. if only i heard you say this that could have been $650 spent on my MQ instead of on a mates piece of junk 4 runners windows, good to let everyone know.

[AB]

No mate, even though u sound like a old woman what your saying is spot on and very wise. unfortunatly for me I learnt the hard way $650 for windows and a mate that if hit him he could be dead. if only i heard you say this that could have been $650 spent on my MQ instead of on a mates piece of junk 4 runners windows, good to let everyone know.

No one knows everything mate and It's good that your taking this on board for sure!

Back in my teens we were sloppy and careless with recovery gear and even used local farmers fencing wire to tow vehicles and after reading all of this information you just cringe some times...haha

[Woof]

Well everyone we have had a WIN, it has been removed from sale............I would like to thank everyone that assisted in getting this removed before someone was injured or worse..

[growler2058]

Excellent job Doggy well done mate

[the ferret]

Well everyone we have had a WIN, it has been removed from sale............I would like to thank everyone that assisted in getting this removed before someone was injured or worse..

Well, NEARLY!! see active listing below.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4WD-SNATCH-STRAP-RECOVERY-KIT-4x4-OFFROAD-BRAND-NEW-/300471631805?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f5813fbd
INCLUDES:
- 1 Heavy Duty canvas carry bag
- 1 stamped and rated shackles 3.25 ton
- 1stamped and rated universal towball mountable shackle 4.75 ton
- 1 Snatch Strap 8000kg 9m x 60mm
- 1 cable/strap dampener (air brake)

Sorry fellas, but the show is not over till the fat lady sings!

[macca]

This guy is keen, the treat of litigation would surely be enough to take those shackles off the market.
This whole discussion has made me rethink the way I have been doing things. There is room for improvement so I will do recoveries better and safer.
Macca

[Woof]

This guy is keen, the treat of litigation would surely be enough to take those shackles off the market.
This whole discussion has made me rethink the way I have been doing things. There is room for improvement so I will do recoveries better and safer.
Macca

Thanks Macca, the more people that we reach with this the better.

[Woof]

Well, NEARLY!! see active listing below.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4WD-SNATCH-STRAP-RECOVERY-KIT-4x4-OFFROAD-BRAND-NEW-/300471631805?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f5813fbd
INCLUDES:
- 1 Heavy Duty canvas carry bag
- 1 stamped and rated shackles 3.25 ton
- 1stamped and rated universal towball mountable shackle 4.75 ton
- 1 Snatch Strap 8000kg 9m x 60mm
- 1 cable/strap dampener (air brake)

Sorry fellas, but the show is not over till the fat lady sings!

Just rang ACCC, they will get back to me today.............................I am really pi55ed off with this sort of stuff now (even more than before)
I am not going to rest now until all this sort of cr@p has been stopped..

[AB]

Well done though Doggy!

[Woof]

Spoke to Daniel from ACCC and hopefully we can do something about these so called "recovery packs", sent him a email with the link that Rod posted, he would like a full report of all the info that we have so I will do that tomorrow after work.

[the ferret]

These are back on ebay, I would urge anyone looking to purchase recovery gear to stay away from these kits.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x4-RECOVERY-KIT-2-SHACKLES-SNATCH-STRAP-AND-BAG-/180716742803?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a138ea893

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4WD-SNATCH-STRAP-RECOVERY-KIT-4x4-OFFROAD-BRAND-NEW-/300471631805?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f5813fbd

Both of these kits carry the so called "towball safe shackle"
snatching using the towball as a recovery point can and has been DEADLY.
If you already have one of these kits, please do not put ANY faith in the towball and the shackle method of attaching the strap to a vehicle.
The ferret

[Woof]

These are back on ebay, I would urge anyone looking to purchase recovery gear to stay away from these kits.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x4-RECOVERY-KIT-2-SHACKLES-SNATCH-STRAP-AND-BAG-/180716742803?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a138ea893

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4WD-SNATCH-STRAP-RECOVERY-KIT-4x4-OFFROAD-BRAND-NEW-/300471631805?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f5813fbd

Both of these kits carry the so called "towball safe shackle"
snatching using the towball as a recovery point can and has been DEADLY.
If you already have one of these kits, please do not put ANY faith in the towball and the shackle method of attatching the strap to a vehicle.
The ferret

This is really starting to pi55 me off, got no job at the moment so I will concentrate on this project for now.....:furious:

[Woof]

Just sent Daniel from the ACCC a link to this thread, as it has all of the information that they will require.

[the ferret]

I've spelled it out on 4wd Action as well Doggy, onya mate.

[Woof]

Just received this from Daniel:

Dear Wayne
Thanks for the information. I have forwarded the information on to our Product Safety team, including news of the recent death in Geraldton. I believe they are looking into the issue.
If you wish to speak to someone directly, you would be able to catch them during Eastern States business hours through the Infocentre number of 1300 302 502. The best person to speak to would be Mr Glenn Probyn.
Regards
Daniel Kilderry

Senior Investigations Officer
ACCC WA Regional Office
(08) 9325 0609

[the ferret]

Well done Doggy, I sure hope that something is done about it, we can't have people die, just because some sellers have no conscience.
What enters their mind that makes them decide to market something so deadly as a towball safe shackle?.
They obviously never take their head out of the nose bag long enough to see what is going on around them!!

[the evil twin]

Be interesting to see how this all pans out I reckon. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Shackle, its design or rating within itself and also one of my pet hates is that so many people only think "Snatch Strap" when the word "Recovery" is used. The vast majority of my recovories involve a belt under the ear from the Missus, a long handled shovel and some sweat.

Anyway... What IS wrong IMHO is that the Shackle is being sold as part of a Snatch Recovery Kit and the upshot of that is that the Kit has to have Mandatory Warnings saying don't use a Towball as an attachement point for a Snatch Strap. Thats why I made the comment waaaay back that the dude will probably get sued in a civil action for facilitating the use of the Tow Ball for a Snatch recovery by including them in a Snatch Recover Kit.

There is no such mandatory warning requirement for Winching or Towing etc.

Indeed the manufacturer is probably correct in his assertion that the Shackle is an excellent option for attaching a tow rope to a vehicle. Lets face it, if you are towing, I stress towing not snatching, and the Ball snaps it is immaterial if the tow attachment method was a Tow Hitch, Tow Ball Shackle, Rope or the belt off the jolly green Giant looped over the Ball.

Bottom line is that if the product is not used in conjunction with a Snatch Strap it is a legit solution and dare I even say a good idea. Whether any outlet refuses to stock and sell the thing or individuals refuse to purchase or use them as a gesture towards promoting safer 4X'ing is another issue.

As I said, 'twill be interesting but I'd bet money that the device isn't marketed with a Snatchie after the ACCC have a look. As for a total ban, well, I'm not sure about that...

[frenzy]

Nice work raising awareness lads.

I'm over on Stradbroke Island right now and over the last week have been constantly reminded that you don't require common sense or 2 IQ points to rub together to own a 4WD or get a permit for beach access.

Classic example today... Saw two lolux/ute type vehicles with road tires traveling together. One got stuck at the entry to our campsite. No digging, no air reduction, brand new snatch strap straight onto the tow ball and out after several gos.

Same vehicle a couple of hrs later got bogged again in the same place! I walked over whilst he was airing down his lo profile road tires and said "mate, do you want to try digging it out before a tow ball recovery? He didn't even look up and grunted through gritted teeth "no". So I walked away and cleared some kids out of the area.

8231

Well, they got out without a dampener, without digging and without utilising rated recovery points. At least they didn't hurt anyone.....

[growler2058]

Nob heads!!!!!

[TimE]

This has been posted elsewhere, but will be of some interest:

A mate doing testing on snatch straps as part of an engineering degree, found the following re "shock" loadings on snatching "Hit the 8 tonne limit about 14 km/hr, around 13 tonne at about 21 km/hr. Exceeded the SWL of 2x rating (theoretically) at about 27 km/hr"

[rockndot]

Well this is a good thread, as i didnt realise or even consider the ball breaking,
But i have always looked for stronger hitch points, if avail, ie all 4x4s have em, and almost every car,
this is a great site for tips and tricks, like lookin arround

[growler2058]

Don't confuse tie down points with recovery points mate they can have the same bullet effect as a towball!!!

[Choicebro]

Hi Guys ,just a thanks for this thread. I'm on my first fourby as is my mate. I have advised all my mates that before our next adventure we are all to have the proper hitch. no excuses. Cheers.

[the ferret]

Hi Guys ,just a thanks for this thread. I'm on my first fourby as is my mate. I have advised all my mates that before our next adventure we are all to have the proper hitch. no excuses. Cheers.
Top effort mate, keep up the good work cos yer a long time dead.
Cheers, the ferret.

[Woof]

Hi Guys ,just a thanks for this thread. I'm on my first fourby as is my mate. I have advised all my mates that before our next adventure we are all to have the proper hitch. no excuses. Cheers.

Well done mate, that is the most important thing that this forum is about........ promoting safety and awareness

[Turtle_au]

The strange thing is I always thought it was illegal to leave the towball and tongue on the vehicle unless it was being used to tow a trailer. I always take mine off, and curse others when I hit my shin on theirs.
I also wonder about the fatigue factor. You might get away with the snatch, but will the hitch/ball still handle a sudden stop with your prized boat or van hitched up?

[DX grunt]

I love reading this thread. Not a lot of people belong to dedicated 4wd forums and just know know the consequences of their actions.

Read my signature to remind yourself what it's all about.

Take care out there.

Rossco

[Woof]

I love reading this thread. Not a lot of people belong to dedicated 4wd forums and just know know the consequences of their actions.

Read my signature to remind yourself what it's all about.

Take care out there.

Rossco
I agree with you Ross, so like all of the comments that this thread has generated and hopefully the injuries that we have prevented

[Woof]

I have noticed that a few of our members have copied DX Grunts signature, I would encourage all members to copy it and add it to theirs..
Well done Ross, thanks heaps mate

[macca]

Spoke to a fella the other day who did not realise the danger of using a tow ball.
His basic misunderstanding stems from a tow ball can handle the forces of a heavy trailer so should be able to handle a recovery.
Sent him the links from this topic, interested to find out if he has changed his mind now.
Might save a possible nasty accident.
Macca

[Woof]

Spoke to a fella the other day who did not realise the danger of using a tow ball.
His basic misunderstanding stems from a tow ball can handle the forces of a heavy trailer so should be able to handle a recovery.
Sent him the links from this topic, interested to find out if he has changed his mind now.
Might save a possible nasty accident.
Macca
Good on you Macca, the more that we get it out there the less people could be injured or worse

[tzsafari]

So good to know not to use the towball!

[GQshorty]

thanks guys now i know not to use my tow ball to recover:)

[Tim30]

thanks very much for the information...it really brings home what the consequences can be for poor recovery practices.

[cobra]

Wow i actually didnt know that thanks heaps wont be doing that any more eek

[the ferret]

Wow i actually didnt know that thanks heaps wont be doing that any more eek

There is a heap of info on this forum, some of it can save your life.
Cheers, the ferret.

[belzi82]

THere was a segment in todays 4WD TV that discussed this

[taslucas]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts on this: Pull the pin out and remove the entire towball and tongue etc out, then put the strap into the tube and put the pin back in. I think this is a safe method you can use when you dont have any extra gear (hitch receiver and shackles etc). Its definately better than a towball. What are peoples thoughts?

[the evil twin]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts on this: Pull the pin out and remove the entire towball and tongue etc out, then put the strap into the tube and put the pin back in. I think this is a safe method you can use when you dont have any extra gear (hitch receiver and shackles etc). Its definately better than a towball. What are peoples thoughts?

No problem at all if the strap is a folded eye construction. The straps with flat eyes can be a bit of an issue as the eye is wider than the reciever.

Some people will have seen/heard of pins being bent using this method and even pins being jammed in the reciever. The amount of force required to bend the pin enough to jam is far and above what should be emplyed during a snatch recovery.

IE if you bend the pin your doing it wrong

[jedskipow]

The strange thing is I always thought it was illegal to leave the towball and tongue on the vehicle unless it was being used to tow a trailer. I always take mine off, and curse others when I hit my shin on theirs.
I also wonder about the fatigue factor. You might get away with the snatch, but will the hitch/ball still handle a sudden stop with your prized boat or van hitched up?


Tailgaters isn't it. Park brake and one less on the road.

My sister wanted me to remove off small car (a major job) That week she sitting stopped at red light ,bamm, other car pushed to side off road, she had a slight scratch, I get Saturday to drink beer.

Bloke I know badly dinged back door, strap hit wind screen WITH OUT ANYTHING on it.
Whats that loop for at the back above tow ball,it is NOT recovery point, not for chains for towing so what is it for.
Pulled recovery pionts off two gqs those 2 bolts have been the type to shear under a lot off stress for the bullbar.
Tie a couple of shirts/ jeans to strap to slow it a little if broken

[threedogs]

This is a story from a while back two retirees brough 2 trucks to tour this great land. out exploring one day one truck got stuck. easy just attach to front of one truck and TOW BALL of the other...................long story short TOW BALL smashed the rear window went through the rear and front headrests through the driver smashed the windscreen and embedded the TOW BALL in a tree 50 myrs away. Do a recovery course, be familiar with your equipment only one boss/ this happened in the mid 90s and still happens today. NOT WORTH A 2 INCH HOLE IN YOUR SCONE

[AB]

Wow, a lot of force behind that one.

I helped someone on the weekend pull out our local landscape delivery truck who was stuck on a clay slippery hill. I watched the person just about to loop the chain over the ball. It also feels good to teach and explain what can and does happen indeed!

[threedogs]

Contact ARB, TJM and OPPOSITE LOCK as well as your states 4x4 body and demand it

[threedogs]

you should never go 4x4ing without a proper kit with straps etc and rated front recovery points. in the bush nothing worse than coming across someone stuck with no equipment

[Oversize]

Makes you think.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/CHRISMAV_2007/Misc/Towball.jpg

Saw this pic on the ARB 4x4 fb page and checked to see if any of you guys had found it. Not surprised. BUMP.

[Woof]

It seems that this is growing momentum in the 4x4 community, has taken a while but it is getting out there now................we (nissanpatrol.com.au) would like to thank everyone who has passed on to others the danger of this practice, WELL DONE ALL

[Ricardo00]

Wow thats scary, I can only imagine the damage something like that would do to a person.

[patrol2.8]

Just this morning had to drag a cemment truck out that was stuck on wet grass and guess what he hooked straight over my tow ball so i showed him the pick above and he had never heard of towballs breaking before so theres one more educated

[taslucas]

How much would a cement truck weigh? I reckon it would have ripped the ball off in no time! 1 more educated is a god thing.

Ps. I did get your pm patrol2.8, I should have the layouts up tonight.... Been a bit flatout

Tap, crackle, pop

[MudRunnerTD]

After doing an Extreme trip last weekend i pulled up at the top of the Reefton Spur to air up. There was 2 blokes in very well sorted GQs sitting at the top doing the same.

They both had full bar work to front and back, sliders, Himount Turbos on TD42s, Himount Winches, Rasler Rear bars with Swing away wheel carriers. I leaned on my bull bar checking out their 2 cars as they were near Identical to look at to each other, all the same mods, very tidy. One of the blokes even commented on my Cheezy bar and said that he used to work for Cheezy making bar work for him........


So......

Here i am leaning on my car waiting for the tyres to air up and i notice that BOTH cars have a tow bar slotted into their rear bar and BOTH had a Tow Ball in place.??????

So i say "hey guys? what do you use as a rear recovery point? you know, where do you put your snatch strap?" Ol' Mate says " ahh just over the tow ball mate!"

So Mr nice guy left immediately and i tore these to clowns a new neck! " What do you mean over the Tow ball that is just DUMB mate! Do you know that they will shear off under load?" "Yeah" he says " but we are careful and i have just never worried about it"

Getting quite loud now i am!!! "Mate its not you that will wear it in the face! If that thing shears off its the bloke your snatching that will cop it in the head bud! Fair Dinkum mate! Thats pretty poor"

Embarrassed, the two guys both tried to get out of my way and went back to the front of their cars to concentrate on airing up under their bonnet.

Not finished but also concerned that i have only aggravated them i went back for another go....

"Sorry guys, dont mean to have a go or get stuck into you but fair dinkum its pretty average mate" "Yeah i know but we just do it anyway" Tsssssss..

"Guys your Not the problem mate, Its the bloke that has No Idea that sees blokes like you that should know better do it and thinks that is the way its done! He then does it and teaches that to his kids or his mates and is out bush one day and the worst thing happens and some kid or bloke or wife dies because he saw you do it" "Its just bloody average mate, Its not hard! Piss the bar off and at worse use your F*&^king Pin!"

Bewildered i went back to my car.

They both had a sticker on their car from a Vic based FaceBook 4x4 Club. LIFT YOUR F*&KING GAME GENTLEMEN!!

Rant over!

[taslucas]

That's crazy!? Especially when you can get a hitch receiver for less than 40 bucks! To buy all those mods and not even see the hitch receiver sitting in the shop!

Tap, crackle, pop

[MudRunnerTD]

Mate that is what flat out astounded me! These were fully modded cars, not much left on the wish list and nothing that it needed on the outside and a bloody tow ball hanging off the back! :furious:

[taslucas]

I'm glad to say a hitch receiver was the very first thing I bought. A few tanks of fuel then the hitch.

Tap, crackle, pop

[Winnie]

Yeah same here. First time I went wheeling I didn't have it though, guy I was with goes "you aren't supposed to snatch off the towball, but it doesn't really matter"
What did I know, he was supposed to be the experienced one so I just listened to him. Took about 4 seconds after joining this board to learn that it is the number 1 "DO NOT"!

[threedogs]

Some people are pig headed and wont change, unfortunetly its wont be them going to hospital. All they'll say is "never happened before". DO A RECOVERY COURSE. Get rid of your bad habits, I see it all the time

[Les Penrose]

Hi, the cross-member that the tow hitch is mounted on is not designed for that type of loading (even with a Heyman-reece you would need to strengthen it to use an appropriate tow fitting)

[patrol2.8]

MUDRUNNER TD
Seems no matter what we do to get the message out there its just never going to be enough also
think you may run into these two again out on the tracks and nothing will have changed lets hope you got through

[macca]

Hi, the cross-member that the tow hitch is mounted on is not designed for that type of loading (even with a Heyman-reece you would need to strengthen it to use an appropriate tow fitting)

Mate my front "Threedogs" recovery point I just put on is held by 3 12mm HT bolts, the hooks I took off had 2, my tow bar has 3 each side and 4 in the middle.
I use one of those solid reciever things with a rated shackle on it.
I'm fairly confident it is going to stay in place during a recovery.
The fact it has so far means nothing, people use that argument with tow balls.
Our club is really uptight about safety, and thats what we have been using since I joined in 2006.
I dont want to be putting myself or anyone else at risk so if I have the wrong end of the stick I really do want to know!!!

[threedogs]

Glad to see you're in a club Macca, then you'll know why we {I} preach a bit about the safety of recoveries.
you are now bullet proof front and rear for SAFE recoveries. Enjoy and spread the word.
Will say it again,
EVERYONE NEEDS TO JOIN A CLUB OR DO A RECOVERY COURSE,,,, NO BUTS
This is not to be taken lightly, lives are at stake here, maybe your own. no laughing matter

[Beno]

Good read. Excellent safety post.

[NP99]

http://youtu.be/eBa-xxiITuU

This is crazy stuff...

[threedogs]

How gutless is the jeep I thought it would be able to drag the car body easy.
He has no respect for his Jeep, it did say RED NECK eh

[lucus30]

They seems to be proud of their stupidity

[Darren M]

Mental note : never use the tow ball :(

[Hodge]

Just seen another recovery with a towball used... And it ripped the recoveree's bull bar off. Very interesting.

Video posted on 4wd TV's facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/4wdTV

[threedogs]

Dont have face ache, seems the message is not getting through, trouble is ppl with
bad habits that swear black and blue it ok to use , cause they have done it for years with no mishaps.

DO A RECOVERY COURSE
If you see someone hooking up to a towball to get you out recline and explain to the goose why.
There should never be deaths from towballs , a few guys here have reported dodgy towing devices that slip over the towball
good on them it may have prevented a death. A towball to the head is not a pretty sight
Go to your 4x4 shop and grab a recovery kit full of all the "RATED" items you will need for a safe recovery.
and the recovery course will show you how it use it properly

[Hodge]

For those without faceache who cannot see the videos. Here is the main bits you need to see.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53387&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53388&stc=1

[threedogs]

would be the same out come if he used the pin in the receiver.
Strap looks questionable as well
And looks like he could've driven around the bog hole

Non air bag 4x4 should replace all bullbar bolts to graded zinc plated bolts
even newer 4x4s that spend a lot of time in bog holes and river crossing
change all the towbar bolts to Zinc coated grade 8 minimum, or at least check a couple
from time to time

[Agronaught]

Had a bloke ask for a snatch backwards out of a hole. I backed up and saw him the put the strap over his towball, he went off his nut when I questioned what he was doing and let him know I wasn't going to snatch off a tow ball.

Last I saw of him he was standing knee deep in the mud watching me drive away. The really sad part was I had a spare hitch receiver in the car and all.

Some people simply can't be told.

[GQ TANK]

During a club trip to the wombat mid last year, we came a cross a tow ball related accident.
The had snatched of the ball, the ball sheared off and it hit a passenger in the shoulder - he was in a bad way - but still alive. 10 cm higher and a bit to the right, it would have been fatal.

[Covo71]

I helped a bloke out the other day and I already had a tow hitch on but he asked me where the tow ball was as it was easier to recover. I told him what could happen and super dangerous. He didn't seem like it really sunk in. I told him to YouTube it, hope at least looks.

[carsurgeons]

hi . I think it is a great idea just to remove hitch or tongue from towbar which most are removable and put the strap in the hole and put the pin back into hold it . so easy so safe and so quick.

[Punderhead]

hi . I think it is a great idea just to remove hitch or tongue from towbar which most are removable and put the strap in the hole and put the pin back into hold it . so easy so safe and so quick.

Yep that is the safest option when you don't have a recovery point.

However hitch receivers are better because the strap is able to slide on the shackle to the correct angle if the snatch isn't a perfectly straight pull. It also reduces the likelihood of damage to the end of the strap, as pulling it against the square reciever can fray the side of it.

But as I said, infinitely better than a towball.

Cheers

[threedogs]

Just watching ET's fishing adventures , they bogged a 90s Prado on a sandy track, enter the tractor.
Looked to me that no one had a clue what they were doing. They secured the rusty chain some how to the
rear of the tractor and tied the chain around the tow ball. Then instead of a steady tow , he tried to snatch it out.
Very bad practice, the tractor driver IMO was lucky he never wore the chain as a bandana.
You would think they have safety consultants on shows like this, but a dangerous recovery, and to be avoided at all costs

[Rossco]

Hmmm. They kind of annoy me those programs. Was watching all 4 adventure the other day, they were doing a track in their 200 series dual cabs. Would have been a fairly easy and very enjoyable drive, however one of then was towing a MASSIVE trailer with both a quaddie and Polaris thingy on it, car was fully loaded with a tinny on top too. Anyway they crossed a river and suprise suprise they got stuck and carried on like it was a big drama with a bit of water coming in etc. Ended up wincing off the car in front under the trailer it had and breaking the rope. What do you expect really, don't think they even used their quaddie & Polaris thingy where they went either! !

[Oldmate1]

I spotted this prado the other day don't know what he did to bend it

[the evil twin]

I spotted this prado the other day don't know what he did to bend it

Backed into a shopping trolley, most likely...

[macca]

Are we supposed to state the obvious here? LOL

[Missy]

See this all too often. A group were doing it last time we went out to the powerlines. We tried to tell them its dangerous and it kills ppl, even offered to do it for them as I have rated recovery points, but no they were too smart for us. They even had groups of ppl standing around way too close, including at least 5 kids. :jawdrop: Some ppl are just so stupid. Ignorance is not bliss when the tow ball smashes through ur windscreen killing u or ur mrs, or anyone.

[threedogs]

Agree the PPl with the bad habits have never been in a club or been shown by
someone in the know. Pig headed comes to mind, at least you tried to tell them.

Seems a shame it will sink in at the coronary inquest.

[katwoman]

http://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/issue011/#9


Just a few vids from Pat. A reminder to think of how you are going to recover before you do..

[Hodge]

I watched those last night. Some serious potential for death in a lot of those.

[threedogs]

There needs to be a national std and a national body
on all these things but I dont think it will happen

[GabrielMk3]

I'm greatly surprised that this is even an issue. Over here we never use the tow ball for recovery, as it is, well, a tow ball... And on most elder vehicles here, the tow ball has been mounted at the dealer, and not at the factory, in a way that strongly weakens the quality of the tow ball since it is put indirectly on the frame.

[threedogs]

I'm greatly surprised that this is even an issue. Over here we never use the tow ball for recovery, as it is, well, a tow ball... And on most elder vehicles here, the tow ball has been mounted at the dealer, and not at the factory, in a way that strongly weakens the quality of the tow ball since it is put indirectly on the frame.

You have cast iron towball set ups dont you ??
Any pics???

[MudRunnerTD]

I will just leave this here....................




60551

[Punderhead]

Just saw that on Facebook and was about to post it up but you beat me to it!

Good reminder that all metal fatigues, even when you can't see it! (Actually lots of stuff rusts inside out)

[ando89]

i am still shocked the about of people out there still using the tow ball to snatch cars out

[threedogs]

Good reminder to never leave anything in the tow hitch,
remove it clean it and store it ready for next time.
Especially you boaties, might be best to maybe zinc
plate your hitch as salt water will kill it quick as.
Also remove all your tow bar bolts and replace with some
zinc plated one torque them to the right Nm and you should be right.
Id check all bolts if reversing into salt water a lot like some here.
they would be high on the list, You never know the next big snatch
recovery may end in disaster, just saying

[DaveGQ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r2Z204GEIw

Another towball recovery, luckily the strap broke.

[4bye4]

You can't win can you? No matter how many time it's published there are still going to be people that do stupid things. You can by a recovery kit from all sorts of places between $50 and $100 or so with no instructions and very little in the way of warnings either. The other thing that bothers me is if enought people get hurt or killed, somone in a white shirt and tie in an office somewhere will just ban the use of snatch straps, or legislate the use of reflective shirt, protection for the chest, steel toe cap boots, helmet and eye protection before you are permuitted to attach a tow line of any sort.

[DaveGQ]

Haha, good point. But in this country that's not far from the truth.

[threedogs]

You can't win can you? No matter how many time it's published there are still going to be people that do stupid things. You can by a recovery kit from all sorts of places between $50 and $100 or so with no instructions and very little in the way of warnings either. The other thing that bothers me is if enought people get hurt or killed, somone in a white shirt and tie in an office somewhere will just ban the use of snatch straps, or legislate the use of reflective shirt, protection for the chest, steel toe cap boots, helmet and eye protection before you are permuitted to attach a tow line of any sort.

Maybe they don't put instructions on/in a recovery kit is for liability reasons.
Maybe they should recommend a course before using any equipment
But everyone's an expert out in the bush and that where the accidents happen.
If it doesnt look safe chances are it isn't, refuse the recovery and think it out
with a bit of brainstorming,

[4bye4]

If it doesnt look safe chances are it isn't, refuse the recovery and think it out
with a bit of brainstorming,
I agree TD but I have to admit when I first started driving 4WD, I probably would have thought a bull/roo bar was OK to snatch/tow on, untill someone told me. Probably not a tow ball but I might has done it if I didn't know. IMO a warning similar to that at the top of the forum page should be mandatory on all recovery kits, either on or in the box when purchased or on the strap.

[the evil twin]

Since 2010 all Snatch Straps must be packaged with almost all of the suggestions mentioned so far... https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Motor%20vehicle%20recovery%20straps%20-%20supplier%20guide.pdf

3 Accompanying information

(1) A motor vehicle recovery strap must also be accompanied by

a document, other than the packaging, stating the following

information written in English—

(a) a recommendation that the minimum breaking strength

of the strap should be between 2 and 3 times the

vehicle’s gross vehicle mass (GVM);

(b) advice that the strap must be suited to the GVM of the

lighter of the 2 vehicles used in the recovery process;

(c) how to use and maintain the strap.

(2) Without limiting subsection (1)(c)—

(a) the information to accompany a motor vehicle recovery

strap must state all of the following—

(i) persons intending to use the strap should consider

completing a nationally recognised four wheel

drive training course or contact a four wheel drive

club for comprehensive advice on the proper

selection and use of the strap;

(ii) the strap must not be used for lifting or

conventional towing;

(iii) persons intending to use the strap must ensure that

the strap is not damaged and is in usable condition;

(iv) the strap’s strength and stretch are reduced when

the strap is saturated;

(v) something like a recovery damper, heavy bag or

blanket must be draped over the strap during its use

to reduce any unintentional rebound of the strap;

(vi) while the strap is being used, persons situated

outside the motor vehicles involved in the recovery

process must—

(A) be kept at a safe distance (recommended as

at least 1.5 times the length of the

unstretched strap) from either of the vehicles

involved in the recovery process; and

(B) never situate themselves within the path of

the vehicle performing the recovery; and



(b) the information must also include the following—

‘WARNING—Always follow product instructions. It is

important to correctly attach the motor vehicle recovery

strap to a motor vehicle. A standard tow ball or vehicle

tie-down point is not designed for this purpose and may

result in the strap or a vehicle component detaching

from a motor vehicle and striking and seriously injuring

or killing a person. Only attach the strap to a vehicle

recovery point or device that is suitably rated for use

with the strap. Incorrect use has previously resulted in

serious injury and death.’.

[mudski]

Thanks ET. TBH I don't think I've ever seen any of this info sold with any strap I have seen. Apart from breaking strain and the like. I will have a closer look on Sunday at the 4wd show.

I think the link that E.T has posted should be add to the OP.

[the evil twin]

Thanks ET. TBH I don't think I've ever seen any of this info sold with any strap I have seen. I will have a closer look on Sunday at the 4wd show.

Hiya Cobber,

An ARB one that I was presented with after some Lectures and Training I did about 3 years ago is still in its box and has all the required warnings and product info and is also with the ones I get from from the Industry Vendor (who make them up to 400 tons rating... awesome bit of kit but you need a Forklift to rig it).

If anyone is flogging them without the Mandatory Warnings they are taking a HUGE business risk so if you spot any I'd give 'em a polite heads up.
I would almost bet you can find a few :-)

[4bye4]

Hey @ET my apologies, I just checked the "recovery kit from Supercrap" given to me last Christmas and it does have the warnings you quote on a piece of paper at the bottom of the bag. I didn't know it was there and not very obvious but it does comply with the law.

[mudski]

Yeha will be having a closer look. I cannot recall ever seeing this, but like 4bye, its not real obvious to see i suppose.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

[the evil twin]

Hey @ET my apologies, I just checked the "recovery kit from Supercrap" given to me last Christmas and it does have the warnings you quote on a piece of paper at the bottom of the bag. I didn't know it was there and not very obvious but it does comply with the law.

No apols needed, Cobber... and totally agree that the A.S. Packaging Standard could maybe insist on something a bit more prominent.
Packaging is the first thing in the bin hence the requirement for the seperate pamphlet/instructions which, we all know as good aussie blokes, is usually in the bin about 2 micro seconds behind the packaging

[threedogs]

You need to do a course to work as a dogman or rigger.
Yet any jo blow can use a snatch strap , winch or drag chain
with no accreditation, hooking two 4 ton 4x4 together.
just saying

[the evil twin]

You need to do a course to work as a dogman or rigger.
Yet any jo blow can use a snatch strap , winch or drag chain
with no accreditation, hooking two 4 ton 4x4 together.
just saying

True dat... but maybe not a totally fair comparison.

Yes, you need a ticket to work as a Dogman or a Rigger in Industry but equally Jo Blow will also need a ticket to operate a 4X4 and another one again to recover a 4X4 in many but certainly not all Industry or Statutory employment here in WA.

[growler2058]

Our engineer (civil) side of the company requires a procedure which includes those involved in the recovery's verification of competency and a permit


Sent from my iPhone using My thumbs

[Nessie]

couple month ago the Nissan club i am in ran a trip to Mt Disappointment. we came across a few dummies what were trying to snatch off the towball.
we couldnt believe and made sure we explained to them the dangers involved. they also managed to rip a hole in the sump and leave a huge oil spill. further on round we came across some other dummies who went though a mud hole solo, we ended up having to recover them and explain the dangers of snatching off the towball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2hucx2MuVM

[Hodge]

Wow. Never seen so much 4x4 wrong in one video. Authorities and greenies would have a field day documenting everything on there.

[mudski]

Seriously! The mind boggles on how stupid and/or ignorant some people are.

[AB]

Apart from the muppets that was a good video Nessie

[mudski]

Apart from the muppets that was a good video Nessie
Yeah i reckon its been 15 years since i have been to Dissa.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk

[Nessie]

was a good day out apart from the nuggets, we really couldnt believe what they were trying to do, the last group that we helped, we ended up giving them a lift back down to Melbourne so they could get someone to go back up and collect the car.
still cant understand why people go out to do 4wd'ing without being fully prepared. its a costly mistake.

[mudnut]

Unfortunately people buy a FWD and think they're right to go anywhere. Its a steep learning curve as things can go bad in an instant. As an example, at a meet up at Beachport-Robe we found a new Amarok stuck on the beach. They had road pressure in their tyres and had no clue what they were doing. But to be fair, only since I joined the forum and FWD club did I learn the way I was performing recoveries was dead wrong.

As they are a vehicle designed to do a specialist (and sometimes very dangerous) task, I think it is the responsibility of the manufacturers and dealers of FWDs to advise or teach people how to use them, or at least subsidise a basic FWD driving and recovery course for them.

I know I will step on some toes with this statement, but after re-reading and watching the vids in this thread, I am starting to think that to drive a proper FWD or SUV that is meant for offroad use, you should have a special endorsement on your licence after completing such a course.

[89gqpatrol4x4]

Nice video mate

[MudRunnerTD]

I'm just going to leave this here. Lucky his arm got in the way!! A Dampener would have works too without the mess

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/135.jpg


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[Winnie]

Wow! Looks like it was rope too and not steel cable.
I did not think the danger was there when using rope. Clearly there is!

[threedogs]

Wow! Looks like it was rope too and not steel cable.
I did not think the danger was there when using rope. Clearly there is!

If it can store energy chances are it has the ability to mame or even worse kill.
As you know you cant let your guard down for one second, cause pretty sure it will
bite and bite hard.

YET IT CONTINUES NOT TO SINK IN GRrrrrrr

[Rossco]

OUCH, how do you know it was rope, can't really see in the pic or that might just be me ? . .

Looks as tho it is well and truly sinking in with that dude lol . . .

[Winnie]

OUCH, how do you know it was rope, can't really see in the pic or that might just be me ? . .

Looks as tho it is well and truly sinking in with that dude lol . . .

Looks like you can see a bit of orange rope but that could just be his insides...

[threedogs]

I thought it looked like Plasma style rope you can see the layers

Rossco he'll have plenty of time to think about it
doesnt look like thats going to heal in a week or so

[Turtle_au]

Fitting proper recovery points to your vehicle protects the other vehicle, theirs may not be as robust as yours and fail first.
I'm an electrician and have to learn CPR, won't help me but I make sure anyone working with me knows what to do.
Snatch straps should be made with a stitched joint in the middle that will fail when extreme force is applied, and a damper built in either side.

Best demonstration of the forces of moving objects I've seen was,
Dvive a six inch nail 1inch into a tree, hang a lump hammer off it with about 2 foot of rope. All good. Lift hammer up to nail and let go. Either nail bends or pulls out.


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[Cuppa]

Bloody awful picture, but one worth sharing. I hope the bloke in it is not someone close to anyone here.

[Coger]

Well that's put me off my dinner, very lucky only his arm, definitely something to remember - to stop me doing something stupid without stopping and thinking first.

[threedogs]

MudRunnerTD any way to have this thread at the top permanently??
so ppl wont need to search,,,,,,just a thought ,,,,,,

[mudnut]

Makes you think.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/CHRISMAV_2007/Misc/Towball.jpg

Just re-posting this pic.

[NissanGQ4.2]

MudRunnerTD any way to have this thread at the top permanently??
so ppl wont need to search,,,,,,just a thought ,,,,,,

In what way John???? as a link on the red / grey bar????

It is already a sticky thread in the 4x4 safety sub forum

[maltalian0]

Just putting it up as a stand alone thread, we have to promote this as much as we can...if this saves one life then it is worth it.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?5715-Tow-ball-failure-claims-another-life
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?2238-Coroners-Report-into-Snatch-Strap-death


Thanks for the heads up. Just recently getting into it. Always good to hear experience.

Cheers,

[MudRunnerTD]

Just saw this on Facebook and need to share it here. Note I don't agree that it must have been a rusty Towball. A Brand New Towball will hurt just as much when it takes your head off!!

Anyone who thinks this is a myth is a Dickhead!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/228.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/229.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/230.jpg


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[GQtdauto]

OMG , how did she survive that ?

[MudRunnerTD]

OMG , how did she survive that ?

by inches mate!! imagine if you had your family in the car when that happened and one of your kids was sitting in the middle of the back seat!

[mudnut]

Obviously the message isn't getting out there. She is so very lucky not to be in a casket.

[mudnut]

I thought these guys used the towball, but on closer inspection you can see they have wrapped the snatch strap to pull on the tongue. ( at the 3;50 mark.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rts6Jk-VwzU

[MudRunnerTD]

Here is an old story from 2011 that i had not read before but found on a Facebook page today

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-21/freak-accident/2848762

[GQtdauto]

If you use a towball now knowing that for any purpose other than towing you're trying to win a Darwin Award .

[DX grunt]

I've learnt through experience that there may not be a thing called 'common sense' any more.

People either know it, or they don't.

The workplace is a great example........"I wasn't trained it in it, therefore I'm not responsible".

It is up to people like us to spread the word and educate people, that it's NOT SAFE to simply hook up a rope to a tow ball and fang it!

[MudRunnerTD]

I'd say a Towball failure occurred here

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/06/160.jpg


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[Woof]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0q8BX4td_o

[Hodge]

Fkn hell. I just watched a seriously graphic video following a tow ball snapping during a snatch attempt ... Tow ball to blokes jaw. Unreal.

Do not use tow balls as recovery points !!!!!

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[Maxhead]

Fkn hell. I just watched a seriously graphic video following a tow ball snapping during a snatch attempt ... Tow ball to blokes jaw. Unreal.

Do not use tow balls as recovery points !!!!!

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Yeah, it’s pretty fuked up vid







................on the road

[Avo]

i justr watched onme seems to be the same,,it wasn't on the towball,looks like it was through the reece hitch sort of thing asnd the whole lot must have broke off...def not towball

[Woof]

Just saw this on faceache, miracle that no one was hurt or killed....snatching off 2 towballs



https://www.facebook.com/theJacked4x4/videos/2252146054803530/

[Ratpol]

I have seen two guys in Toyota utes using a snatch strap from towball to towball. Having seen how they got stuck I realised trying to give friendly advice wasn't an option so stayed behind my 4by. Luckily on that occasion no one was killed so they will continue under the delusion that it's safe.

[MB]

Have seen your other posts and reckon you are a good hearted bloke Ratpol mate! They must have been real kid less arseholes for you to not intervene educated good bloke ;-)!


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[Hodge]

Folks, I just saw something a little concerning.
I was just Driving behind a 4wd who had a snatch strap hanging out of his canopy ...
Car was putrid so he's obviously been off the tarmac.
Nothing unusual , see that often.

However . At the end of the strap was flat plate with an eyelet that was hooked over his towball.
It almost looked like a huge bottle opener. And this didn't look like a home job either , looked like a professionally made bit of gear.
I couldn't take a snap of it as I was driving ...
But has anybody seen anything like it before ???

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[AB]

Yep I have. Guillotine!!!


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[mudski]

So instead of the strap loop going around the tow ball, this plate does? So you would potentially have two metal objects hurtling toward the rear car?

[MB]

Makes sense to share I guess...one missile for the driver and one for the navigator :-(


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[4bye4]

Folks, I just saw something a little concerning.
I was just Driving behind a 4wd who had a snatch strap hanging out of his canopy ...
Car was putrid so he's obviously been off the tarmac.
Nothing unusual , see that often.

However . At the end of the strap was flat plate with an eyelet that was hooked over his towball.
It almost looked like a huge bottle opener. And this didn't look like a home job either , looked like a professionally made bit of gear.
I couldn't take a snap of it as I was driving ...
But has anybody seen anything like it before ???

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from the description it sounds like an eye we use to lift skips/bins. We have four lock posts on each side of a bin and two chains with the eyes on each side. These lock over the posts and the boom lifts the bin. If you use the outer posts on esch side the lift is higher allowing you to kift the bin to the front of the tray. Anyway thats what it sound like. On the bins you are slow lifting a known max weight not a stretch/snatch pull, so they are rated differently to a tow/snatch device.

[the evil twin]

The item described is what is/was known in my experience as a Recovery Plate but will have other nsmaes as well I reckon.

They are designed to drop over the Tow Ball and then slide back so the shank of the Tow ball is in the narrow keyway of the plate.
Recovery Plates pre-date kinetic recovery and most Billet Hitch Receivers, indeed they probably date back to the 1930's.

Like anything, when used correctly on maintained equipment fit for purpose and by trained people they are perfectly OK.
When wrongly used for kinetic recovery or by untrained people they are indeed a potential missile if the Ball lets go.

On the Farm in the olden days we would have a couple in every Tractor (usually home made jobbies).
They were only recently removed from Emergency Services Recovery Kits (last 5 maybe 10 years or so) over here but even when available were only for use by Recovery Techs and not general members

They are readily available commercially (here is one version) https://www.theballhooker.com/

[Hodge]

Damn. So It's its more common than I thought.


http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2018/08/277.jpg

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[MB]

Slowly does it ‘dragging’ as ET and his kind link describe would be key here. We have ‘drag chained’ decent logs off ball chain hooks and it certainly does give a scary chassis stretching wallop if over 5kmph. Pays to chamfer off the logs leading edge and just slowly chug along in case a nasty big rock is hiding under the paddock!


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[Hodge]

https://mr4x4.com.au/tow-dawg-no/

[the evil twin]

There is a fault in their logic...

I quote
"The moment the throttle is blipped or traction changes, stresses beyond the towball’s capabilities will be introduced,"
I call Bullshit.
There will be absolutely no difference in the 'stress introduced' when the "throttle is blipped or traction changes" whether the load is connected directly to the Ball (think A frame or Tow Hitch) or by the Tow Strap to the Ball.

Totally different matter if some numpty uses a Kinetic Strap or Rope tho.
I absolutely agree that will not end well.

I know of no fatalities or injuries over the many, many years of use of Recovery Plates due to a Plate or Ball failure in static operations (winching, towing, stump pulling, fence straining, water skiing (don't ask!!!)...
BUT
In this world where we need to protect people from themselves agree they probably shouldn't be commercially available.

Disclaimer... there may have been injuries/deaths and if so feel free to pop up a linky

[Plasnart]

There is a fault in their logic...

I quote
"The moment the throttle is blipped or traction changes, stresses beyond the towball’s capabilities will be introduced,"
I call Bullshit.
There will be absolutely no difference in the 'stress introduced' when the "throttle is blipped or traction changes" whether the load is connected directly to the Ball (think A frame or Tow Hitch) or by the Tow Strap to the Ball.

Totally different matter if some numpty uses a Kinetic Strap or Rope tho.
I absolutely agree that will not end well.

I know of no fatalities or injuries over the many, many years of use of Recovery Plates due to a Plate or Ball failure in static operations (winching, towing, stump pulling, fence straining, water skiing (don't ask!!!)...
BUT
In this world where we need to protect people from themselves agree they probably shouldn't be commercially available.

Disclaimer... there may have been injuries/deaths and if so feel free to pop up a linky

Sense and sensibility. Tow with a tow ball. Revover sans towball.

[NissanGQ4.2]

https://www.facebook.com/356375844412362/videos/886175514890756/

[Jakeguy49]

Good video to show to those who are still inclined to use tow balls for recovery....and those who are too stubborn to believe it's dangerous.

[MudRunnerTD]

This should not have happened. A Daughter A Sister, A Friend. A Young life Lost.

Think about what you are doing. Always consider the worst case scenario and clear the safety zone.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2020/09/149.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2020/09/150.jpg

RIP

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[taslucas]

I recently received this photo from a friend.
Here's the aftermath of a broken snatch strap. No towball, no shackle, just the snatch strap. Look at the damage to the tail gate! 82305

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[0-TJ-0]

I figure this is a good a place as any to drop this.

All I could do was shake my head when I found it.

When you see it....

82945

[MudRunnerTD]

I recently received this photo from a friend.
Here's the aftermath of a broken snatch strap. No towball, no shackle, just the snatch strap. Look at the damage to the tail gate! 82305

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Crazy hey!! I posted in another thread similar but worse, i will find it and post it here too.

[MudRunnerTD]

taslucas


Well this is just bloody average. I don't have the whole story but the bloke says a shackle did this. The bloke has confirmed that they joined 2 straps together to increase length and snatched. Terrible idea, a Dampener would have helped. Glad noone died. Imagine if it went the other way through a windscreen!!!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2021/02/65.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2021/02/66.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2021/02/67.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2021/02/68.jpg



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Crazy Stuff Mate!! It will take your head off.

[MB]

If only pictures could truly convey sound waves shocking a bloke scared to the bone personally experienced myself in younger uneducated days.......never attempt mud bog Snatch recoveries IMHO [emoji51]
Slow & steady (no rush) winch your way out of the suction slick and yes this is still plausible for Sand, albeit wet quicky stuff only hopefully caused by beach outgoing creeks or low outgoing tides?



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[0-TJ-0]

If only pictures could truly convey sound waves shocking a bloke scared to the bone personally experienced myself in younger uneducated days.......never attempt mud bog Snatch recoveries IMHO [emoji51]
Slow & steady (no rush) winch your way out of the suction slick and yes this is still plausible for Sand, albeit wet quicky stuff only hopefully caused by beach outgoing creeks or low outgoing tides?



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I think all recoveries carry an element of risk, that's why we take care to make sure nobody is in the firing line. We know a winch rope has just as much potential to do some serious damage.

I think you're probably right and if you have the option to winch out of mud it might be the better choice but a correctly used snatch would be just as viable and safe/carry similar risks.

I think the likelihood of this kind of damage to a windscreen would be very low. Using the strap as intended (straight pull) will see the bulk of its mass recoil directly towards its fixture points if it does break.

If anything I think that these pictures and experiences are a lesson teaching us to replace our snatch straps a bit more regularly?

[MudRunnerTD]

I think all recoveries carry an element of risk, that's why we take care to make sure nobody is in the firing line. We know a winch rope has just as much potential to do some serious damage.

I think you're probably right and if you have the option to winch out of mud it might be the better choice but a correctly used snatch would be just as viable and safe/carry similar risks.

I think the likelihood of this kind of damage to a windscreen would be very low. Using the strap as intended (straight pull) will see the bulk of its mass recoil directly towards its fixture points if it does break.

If anything I think that these pictures and experiences are a lesson teaching us to replace our snatch straps a bit more regularly?

I have seen more than a couple of Snatches break. it is fare average when they go. the first one i saw was back in the day and they were snatching a GQ out of a bog. The snatch broke and shattered the front grill of the bogged GQ and smashed a head light. I was very new to the scene and surprised at the damage.

I agree they have their place. the best lessons learned here though is to figure out where the line is. to determine when a Snatch simply should not be considered.. Respect the limit of the snatch. Dont just hit it harder.

i subscribe to this rule. "When in Doubt, Winch Out"