compliance plate required for removing seats?

[Gordy]

Hi Guys,
i have a LWB GQ and have just been advised that if i remove the Dicky rear seats from the vehicle i will require to get a compliance plate for this? Does anyone know if this is correct?
I sometimes remove these, probably once a year at present for our long camping trips to provide more room, but it has concerned me somewhat that you just simply cannot jump from 5 seats to 7 seats without beaurocratic rubbish. If I decided to remove them permanently, need compliance, decide to place them back in, another compliance plate, surely this cannot be the case?

Gordy

[Bob]

Hi Guys,
i have a LWB GQ and have just been advised that if i remove the Dicky rear seats from the vehicle i will require to get a compliance plate for this? Does anyone know if this is correct?
I sometimes remove these, probably once a year at present for our long camping trips to provide more room, but it has concerned me somewhat that you just simply cannot jump from 5 seats to 7 seats without beaurocratic rubbish. If I decided to remove them permanently, need compliance, decide to place them back in, another compliance plate, surely this cannot be the case?

Gordy

80% of Patrols have there Dicky Seats removed. Would be a lot of illegal Trolls out there. I cant imagine that it is a requirement but then again beaurocratic Richard Cranium probably thought up some reason. LOL

[timbar]

Hi Guys,
i have a LWB GQ and have just been advised that if i remove the Dicky rear seats from the vehicle i will require to get a compliance plate for this? Does anyone know if this is correct?
I sometimes remove these, probably once a year at present for our long camping trips to provide more room, but it has concerned me somewhat that you just simply cannot jump from 5 seats to 7 seats without beaurocratic rubbish. If I decided to remove them permanently, need compliance, decide to place them back in, another compliance plate, surely this cannot be the case?

Gordy

never heard of it on the west coast putting one in i could understand but taking on out cant see it ???? will be following this one good call

[Gordy]

Will try and get a picture of the offending compliance plate and the code off of it. This may take a few days for me to get the info and figure out how to post Pictures but will get onto it. Once i have the numbers off of it i can then contact someone that can decipher the codes, the guy that owned the vehicle assumed that the plate was for the seat removal, but sure will be interesting to confirm

[Silver]

I just googled Queensland Transport removing seat

and got this result

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/a1143ca0-be74-4886-90ad-1d1da4bae9c3/vsil50permanentandtemporaryremovalofseatsfromlight motorvehicles.pdf

In this case Bob, the bureucratic Richard Craniums seem to have come up with at least a semi common sense solution :-) - of course it remains with the operator to use some common sense and make sure they say the right thing when asked by Transport or the coppers, and to retain the seat and fittings if they ever intend to sell.

[AB]

Extract from Silvers link...




The main principal that needs to be addressed when assessing the
removal of seats is whether the vehicle is actually modified or has just
been reconfigured in accordance with the manufacturers various options.
If seats are reconfigured, no modification occurs and approval is not
required.





·

For vehicles fitted with quick release seating attachments as

original equipment, temporary removal of the seats is
acceptable. A Modification Plate does not need to be fitted.
This is commonly the case for four wheel drives and people
movers.


·


For vehicles fitted with bolt in seating structures, no approval by

an Approved Person is necessary for the temporary removal of
seats, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a
result of the seating reduction.


·


Vehicles with the permanent removal of seating structures must

be approved by an Approved Person and a Modification Plate
must be fitted for the reduction in seating capacity.
In this circumstance, any change in vehicle category must also
be taken into consideration prior to the fitting of the Modification
Plate.

[Bob]

Extract from Vic Roads

Removing seats
The requirements for removing seats will vary depending on:

the original number of seating positions
the new number of seating positions
which seats are removed
when the vehicle was manufactured

An Approval Certificate is not required if:

the number of original seating positions was less than 10
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 2 - 3 seats in the front row only
10 or more seating positions have been reduced to 4 - 9 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1970
more than 12 seating positions have been reduced to 10-12 seats in a vehicle manufactured before 1986
the number of seating positions does not reduce to below 13

If the modification is not listed above an Approval Certificate is required.




Replacing seats
An Approval Certificate is not required for a replacement seat provided:

the seat is offered by the manufacturer as an option and is replacing and existing seat
the original seat mountings are used
appropriate seat belts are fitted.
An Approval Certificate is required if:
the replacement seat was not offered by the manufacturer as an option
the vehicle was manufactured on or after 1 January 1969.

[Silver]

G'day Bob and AB

Bob, on my screen the less than 10 seat answer is in bold, but in a little font.

AB, I used to know how to cut and paste in earlier versions of internet explorer, but have been left behind by the later versions :-) Thanks!!

[Gordy]

LIGHT VEHICLE MODIFICATION CODES FOR APPROVED PERSONS

CODE MODIFICATION
LA1 Engine Substitution
LA3 Turbocharger and Supercharger Installation
LB1 Transmission Substitution
LD1 Rear Axle Replacement
LD2 Differential Substitution
LG1 Brake System Substitution (Design)
LG2 Brake System Substitution (Modification)
LH1 Convertible and Cabriolet Conversion (Design)
LH2 Convertible and Cabriolet Conversion (Modification)
LH3 Passenger Vehicle Extended Wheelbase Conversion (Design)
LH4 Passenger Vehicle Extended Wheelbase Conversion (Modification)
LH5 Individual and Low Volume Vehicles (Design)
LH6 Individual and Low Volume Vehicles (Modification)
LH7 Panel Van to Utility Conversion
LH8 Roll Bar and Roll Cage Installation
LH9 Street Rod Certification (Concessional Registration)
LH10 Street Rod Certification (Unrestricted Registration)
LK1 Seating Capacity Alteration and Seat Belt Installation
LK2 Seat, Seat Anchorage and Seat Belt Anchorage Certification
LK6 Child Restraint Anchorage Installation
LK7 Motorcycle Seating Capacity Alteration
LM1 Fuel Tank Alteration
LO1 Australian Design Rule (ADR) Compliance
LO2 Pre 1972 Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance
LO3 Personally Imported Vehicle Compliance
LS1 Steering Conversion (Design)
LS2 Steering Conversion (Modification)
LT1 Beaming and Torsional Testing

OK,
posting pics isnt my strong point but the mod codes are above. I am glad to hear that we can Temporarily remove seats from the vehicle. My mate has a modification plate LK1 attached to his car, had it re-registered in Caboolture, Qld and had to have the plate fitted as he no longer had the seats available for re-fitment. Phew,
thanks all for the great information

[Bob]

G'day Bob and AB

Bob, on my screen the less than 10 seat answer is in bold, but in a little font.

AB, I used to know how to cut and paste in earlier versions of internet explorer, but have been left behind by the later versions :-) Thanks!!

I changed the font size when I edited it

[AB]

Seems to be ok for us mexicans!!!

[macca]

Dad stripped seats out of a Hiace commuter and payed $550 for the engineers cert plus whatever the RTA charged $600.00???? to change it to a panel van with windows. As it was it had 2 seats too many for a car licence so it had to be done. Still a rip off.

I've fitted 2 Recaro buckets with Recaro bases to fit the DX Cab Chassis and got rid of the 1 & a bit seat that was useless for an adult. I used the origional mount points & bolts for the base and seatbelts (drivers seat has a position to bolt the seat belt to)

Anyway it has gone through a pink slip no worries so I'm going to leave it as it is, not paying a grand to get rid of 1/2 a seat.

Macca

[Bigrig]

Oopsey ... mine are out and long gooooonnnnnnne ...

Never intend in selling it though, so not sure that's an issue for me ...

[Sir Roofy]

Interesting facts thanks fellas
mine didnt come with extra seats

[Silver]

I changed the font size when I edited it

fair enough, I managed to skip over it and then went back looking when all the larger entries were for more than 10 seats - lack of attention to detail on my part first time round :-)

[Silver]

Oopsey ... mine are out and long gooooonnnnnnne ...

Never intend in selling it though, so not sure that's an issue for me ...

BigRig, remember that you only avoid a compliance plate in Qld if you have temporarily removed the seat, even if not selling.

[Bigrig]

BigRig, remember that you only avoid a compliance plate in Qld if you have temporarily removed the seat, even if not selling.

Hmmmm .... define "temporary"? LOL!!

[Silver]

Hmmmm .... define "temporary"? LOL!!

I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill here.

if a transport inspector or a copper starts asking questions about that third seat, they will be expecting either a certain answer or a compliance plate :-) I have never heard of that question being asked, but the bloke over the road does roadworthies and it has been covered in his recent training.

[Bigrig]

I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill here.

if a transport inspector or a copper starts asking questions about that third seat, they will be expecting either a certain answer or a compliance plate :-) I have never heard of that question being asked, but the bloke over the road does roadworthies and it has been covered in his recent training.

Mate, don't think for a second that I'm dismissing it, not at all ... There's just not much I could convincingly state to the officer to suggest it's temporary when I have a bloody big drawer system covering the mounts where they used to be ... just one of those things I'm afraid ...

[Silver]

Mate, don't think for a second that I'm dismissing it, not at all ... There's just not much I could convincingly state to the officer to suggest it's temporary when I have a bloody big drawer system covering the mounts where they used to be ... just one of those things I'm afraid ...

I've taken them out while I've got all this stuff in, and when I want to move more people than 5, or I want to sell it, I'll put them back in :-)

[Silver]

g'day,

I have also been told, but haven't checked for myself, that in Qld if there are third row seats, there also have to be opening/sliding windows

[the evil twin]

It is the same rule in all States and Territories and it lay terms it is basically this...

If the seats can be removed and refitted without using tools IE the seats are fitted with manual latches of some description and the seating of the vehicle is designed to be removed or adjusted as part of the lay out IE 60/40 rear seats allow the vehicle to seat 3, 4 or 5 then no compliance amendment is required.

If you 'unbolt' and remove the seats then "legally" you need to change the compliance plate. The reasoning (I'm not saying its right or wrong, I'm just saying) is that the seating may potentially be reinstalled incorrectly IE wrong bolts, wrong seat belt anchors etc etc.

Some states are more anal about it than others and you have a better chance of the copper/inspector waving you on if they do notice that you have pulled the third row out temporarily by leaving the seat belts in place. Touch them and they get a lot more interested as it obviously isn't temporary and you have dicked with the passenger safety.

Sliding Windows - not a requirement. Look at the GU's for example 3 rows but fixed windows

Finally, before anyone gets too fired up I have removed the 3rd row from my GU as it has drawers and a crash barrier and I removed the 3rd row and often used to pull the 2nd row out of my GQ for long trips (just me and the missus) so I am prepared to wear it if some Mermaid gets obtuse on the side of the road some day.

[Silver]

It is the same rule in all States and Territories and it lay terms it is basically this...

If the seats can be removed and refitted without using tools IE the seats are fitted with manual latches of some description and the seating of the vehicle is designed to be removed or adjusted as part of the lay out IE 60/40 rear seats allow the vehicle to seat 3, 4 or 5 then no compliance amendment is required.

If you 'unbolt' and remove the seats then "legally" you need to change the compliance plate. The reasoning (I'm not saying its right or wrong, I'm just saying) is that the seating may potentially be reinstalled incorrectly IE wrong bolts, wrong seat belt anchors etc etc.

Some states are more anal about it than others and you have a better chance of the copper/inspector waving you on if they do notice that you have pulled the third row out temporarily by leaving the seat belts in place. Touch them and they get a lot more interested as it obviously isn't temporary and you have dicked with the passenger safety.

Sliding Windows - not a requirement. Look at the GU's for example 3 rows but fixed windows

Finally, before anyone gets too fired up I have removed the 3rd row from my GU as it has drawers and a crash barrier and I removed the 3rd row and often used to pull the 2nd row out of my GQ for long trips (just me and the missus) so I am prepared to wear it if some Mermaid gets obtuse on the side of the road some day.

used to take the back seats out of our old MQ all the time - in blissful ignorance :-) Third row seats are out of the GQ, but still have the slidy windows in - with new rubbers, and use them from time to time for ventilation and also to get things in and out of the back :-). The third row seats are under the house if I ever need to do bulk weekend sport runs with the kid, unlike when I was in high school and we used to rattle round the back of a teacher's bongo van, or the old man's tojo :-) then again it was the '70s :-)

[AB]

I have removed dickie seat, installed "permanent" rear drawers and removed both seat belts. I would be fairly peed off and ready to argue if someone slapped a fine on me thats for sure....lol

[Bob]

It is the same rule in all States and Territories and it lay terms it is basically this...

If the seats can be removed and refitted without using tools IE the seats are fitted with manual latches of some description and the seating of the vehicle is designed to be removed or adjusted as part of the lay out IE 60/40 rear seats allow the vehicle to seat 3, 4 or 5 then no compliance amendment is required.

If you 'unbolt' and remove the seats then "legally" you need to change the compliance plate. The reasoning (I'm not saying its right or wrong, I'm just saying) is that the seating may potentially be reinstalled incorrectly IE wrong bolts, wrong seat belt anchors etc etc.

Some states are more anal about it than others and you have a better chance of the copper/inspector waving you on if they do notice that you have pulled the third row out temporarily by leaving the seat belts in place. Touch them and they get a lot more interested as it obviously isn't temporary and you have dicked with the passenger safety.

Sliding Windows - not a requirement. Look at the GU's for example 3 rows but fixed windows

Finally, before anyone gets too fired up I have removed the 3rd row from my GU as it has drawers and a crash barrier and I removed the 3rd row and often used to pull the 2nd row out of my GQ for long trips (just me and the missus) so I am prepared to wear it if some Mermaid gets obtuse on the side of the road some day.

If you read my Post earlier I have shown an extract from Vic Road which shows that we do not have to have compliance plates for removing seats.
They seem to be more lenient than other States

[TheFlyingBadger]

some Mermaid gets obtuse on the side of the road some day.

whenever I go out to visit their office, I have to be really careful not to mention the "M" word :D

[the evil twin]

If you read my Post earlier I have shown an extract from Vic Road which shows that we do not have to have compliance plates for removing seats.
They seem to be more lenient than other States

My apologies I stand corrected. :icon_bonk:

I thought Vic had caught up on that requirement as well. Looks like you wood ducks are safe for a while longer... don't drive over the border tho... :wink:

[the evil twin]

whenever I go out to visit their office, I have to be really careful not to mention the "M" word :D

Yeah... they are touchy buggers eh...

[Bob]

My apologies I stand corrected. :icon_bonk:

I thought Vic had caught up on that requirement as well. Looks like you wood ducks are safe for a while longer... don't drive over the border tho... :wink:

Knowing VicRoads it wont take them long to catch up as they are missing out on Revenue now. It would be a interesting exercise to find out how many Patrols are illegal now (Aust Wide).
You hardly ever see a Patrol with the Back Dickie seats in them when 4WD

[Sir Roofy]

knowing vicroads it wont take them long to catch up as they are missing out on revenue now. It would be a interesting exercise to find out how many patrols are illegal now (aust wide).
You hardly ever see a patrol with the back dickie seats in them when 4wd
thats a very good point bob,but then could be beat with a class action ,aus wide

[DX grunt]

Finally, before anyone gets too fired up I have removed the 3rd row from my GU as it has drawers and a crash barrier and I removed the 3rd row and often used to pull the 2nd row out of my GQ for long trips (just me and the missus) so I am prepared to wear it if some Mermaid gets obtuse on the side of the road some day.

Hmmmm. You've got more guts than I've got. lol. (figure of speech only)

Knowing my luck, I'd get caught and the canary would contrast my white paint job. lol

[the evil twin]

Snip...

You hardly ever see a Patrol with the Back Dickie seats in them when 4WD

Yeah... mine are out within a week of me buying the vehicle.

Wouldn't it be nice if Mr Nissan had and option of "3rd row seats or twin lockers"... then Vic Roads et al could huck up the Rego on the 7 seater Soccer Mom Trucks and make a fortune and us real dudes would get a set of free lockers

[the evil twin]

Hmmmm. You've got more guts than I've got. lol. (figure of speech only)

Knowing my luck, I'd get caught and the canary would contrast my white paint job. lol

Hey matey,

ROFL... yeah, whilst is a bit of a technical thing I have only seen posts up on various Club and Vehicle forums from Qld'rs.

Thats first hand posts I might add, I tend to disregard 'mate of a mate' posts as 1 instance can spiral into 100 posts over time skewing the apparent incidence of 'Nanna' policing the issue.

IMHO one usually needs to go out of ones way to p1ss off the Copper or the Transport dude before they get too agitated about things... well, 99% of the time, altho I hear there is a hard case or two down your way

[Gordy]

So the lessen here in Qld is that as long as you have no intention on selling, and you still have the seatbelts in place, the seats are fine to be removed and stored..., as long as Mr Plod doesnt get too ambitious. I guess this has taught me a thing or two, especially as the reason for my original post was disbelief that we had to plate it at all for seat removal, another learning curve in the world of beaurocracy

[Chris72GQ]

back in feb 09 i had to put the troll over the pits to get it rego'ed
the inspector saw the holes in the rear cargo area where the seat belts had been, and asked if it had come out of the factory with a rear dickie seat, i said yes, but that i had removed it, as i did not need it and eventually drawers and cargo barrier would be going in
hed still registered it as a 7 seater, the 1 thing he did pick me on, was i did not have the headrests for the second row seats in, he actually made me go home, put them in, and drive back there before he would pass it,
apparently it is illegal to have your 2nd row seats down, ready for passengers without the headrests in place

[adrian]

RACQ reckons you need to be able to convince whoever is asking that it's a temporary mod. Should be ok if you just take them out and chuck them in teh shed but if you can't prove you still have them or have installed a drawer system or the like good luck convincing him. Dunno about other states but that's the regs in QLD

[Dirty Driver]

In the years I spent playing with the compliance of vehicles in Australia, I've never heard of any regulations relating to the ADRs (Australian Design Rules) or any other state rules that states that in the act of removing an OE seat from a vehicle that vehicle will now require a modification of additional compliance plate to be affixed to that vehicle.
Of course it's a completely different case when wanting to add more seats to a vehicle than what was original listed on the compliance plate.

[the evil twin]

In the years I spent playing with the compliance of vehicles in Australia, I've never heard of any regulations relating to the ADRs (Australian Design Rules) or any other state rules that states that in the act of removing an OE seat from a vehicle that vehicle will now require a modification of additional compliance plate to be affixed to that vehicle.
Of course it's a completely different case when wanting to add more seats to a vehicle than what was original listed on the compliance plate.

Things have changed then, if 'permanently removed'...
QLD - http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/a1143ca0-be74-4886-90ad-1d1da4bae9c3/vsil50permanentandtemporaryremovalofseatsfromlight motorvehicles.pdf
NSW - same
SA - Same
WA - depends who you ask
Vic - OK if vehicle has less than 10 seats OEM
NT - who cares
TAS - who?

[Bigrig]

Things have changed then, if 'permanently removed'...
QLD - http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/a1143ca0-be74-4886-90ad-1d1da4bae9c3/vsil50permanentandtemporaryremovalofseatsfromlight motorvehicles.pdf
NSW - same
SA - Same
WA - depends who you ask
Vic - OK if vehicle has less than 10 seats OEM
NT - who cares
TAS - who?

Thanks ET - puts it to rest once and for all ...

[the godfather]

I will have to add, that in WA, there is very little you can actually do without plating a vehicle. Under VSB6 you cant remove any seats that come factory fitted. The issue isn't the removal, it is the fact that they can be re-installed incorrectly. ie, wrong grade bolts, and/or over or under tensioning. Any idiot can do this, but not many seem to do it correctly. You would be surprised at the shite I see at work.....I could take and post pics but I would get in trouble.

[the evil twin]

I will have to add, that in WA, there is very little you can actually do without plating a vehicle. Under VSB6 you cant remove any seats that come factory fitted. The issue isn't the removal, it is the fact that they can be re-installed incorrectly. ie, wrong grade bolts, and/or over or under tensioning. Any idiot can do this, but not many seem to do it correctly. You would be surprised at the shite I see at work.....I could take and post pics but I would get in trouble.

Pretty much agree, esp the bit about the re-installation and about W.A.. However the confusion stems from VSB 6 which is a Federal document is in itself a tad vague and open to various interpretations. If it was a defining document then all the States would have to comply and Vic for example couldn't say it's OK for less than 10 seats and NSW say no it's not.

Qld, Vic etc all have State Regs and Interpretations derived from VSB 6 published on their RTA (or equivalent) websites whilst WA and Tas either have none and rely on VSB 6 or have hidden the details away and hard to find. To make matters worse some States have an agreement to recognise interstate plated vehicles (tourists or whatever) that don't comply with the local reg and others don't.

Beauracratic Minefield at its best....

[nowoolies]

Pretty much agree, esp the bit about the re-installation and about W.A.. However the confusion stems from VSB 6 which is a Federal document is in itself a tad vague and open to various interpretations. If it was a defining document then all the States would have to comply and Vic for example couldn't say it's OK for less than 10 seats and NSW say no it's not.

Qld, Vic etc all have State Regs and Interpretations derived from VSB 6 published on their RTA (or equivalent) websites whilst WA and Tas either have none and rely on VSB 6 or have hidden the details away and hard to find. To make matters worse some States have an agreement to recognise interstate plated vehicles (tourists or whatever) that don't comply with the local reg and others don't.

Beauracratic Minefield at its best....

ok now im totally confused
can i take out both sets of seats in the rear leaving just driver and passenger seats
for touring over here ?????
or is some copper gunna fry my @ss

[the godfather]

ok now im totally confused
can i take out both sets of seats in the rear leaving just driver and passenger seats
for touring over here ?????
or is some copper gunna fry my @ss

Well let me see. I have only met you once and your arse wasn't on the agenda.....and I don't really find fried arse appealing....lol.
On a more serious note, my bro is a copper and drove a Patrol until recently. Last I looked his seats where out and long lost....so I am guessing it is highly unlikely that you will get pinged for it. Unless of coarse you have done something to upset him/her. I might be able to help you with this if you are leaving them out permanently.......a very big might that is.

[nowoolies]

Well let me see. I have only met you once and your arse wasn't on the agenda.....and I don't really find fried arse appealing....lol.
On a more serious note, my bro is a copper and drove a Patrol until recently. Last I looked his seats where out and long lost....so I am guessing it is highly unlikely that you will get pinged for it. Unless of coarse you have done something to upset him/her. I might be able to help you with this if you are leaving them out permanently.......a very big might that is.

cool we want to do a run up north later this year and i will need the extra room
as i want to tow the boat with me and not full of camping stuff

[the evil twin]

ok now im totally confused
can i take out both sets of seats in the rear leaving just driver and passenger seats
for touring over here ?????
or is some copper gunna fry my @ss

Doubt it will draw the angst of a Copper unless his gout is playing up... dunno if it is a combined sting with Transport Mermaids in attendance tho

The anecdotal stories here around the Clubs and Websites in WA are that you will only get questions if you are getting a roadworthy at the inspection stations. Now, you should only need to visit them to change Rego or clear a Canary.

If the Inspector is happy with your answers that the removal is only temporary AND the seats that are still in place all have belts, headrests etc then it seems they will let it thru with no Compliance Plate change. I haven't heard of people having to refit the seats that are missing BUT I have heard of people having to go and return with Headrests etc for seats that were folded down and headrests removed for example.

All comes down to how well you convince them what is "temporary".

[Rob L]

For the Qlder's, I've just got my patrol and it has had the dickie seats removed. Came with a roadworthy cert so that would suggest that there is no issue with removing them. Only mod plate on it is for dual batteries or long range tanks. Can't remember which. Unless of course the caryard has pulled a shonkey. Can't imagine that.