Boost Guidance Needed GU CRD- Progressing thru NADS

[Bidja]

Boost gauge (VDO mech) installed and set to work today, gauge needle just starts to lifts @ 1400rpm. Before going on, this is what I have been doing to eng over past 3 weeks installed: TIG welded new I/C, 3" Berkley high flow mandrel bend exhaust, EGR plate (fitted at exhaust manifold), Finished VDO gauge install today: Oil Press mech, EGT Pryo (dump pipe), Boost mech. ProVent 200 fitted (info only).

Boost take off is at MAP sensor with short length 4mm hose into T block fitting secured to eng top cover front RH bracket (where the cover no longer resides). One outlet for boost gauge and other currently blocked as this is for Dawes. Thought I would see how eng is running before fitting Dawes and Needle valve purchased from mudski. VDO line restrictor fitted at boost gauge end.

Anyway tonight keen to fire up eng (remained stationary), warmed engine @ idle and No boost reading, increased revs to 1400rpm where the needle just moved (MAP 106kPa), 1700rpm 2psi (MAP 114kPa), 2000rpm 4psi (MAP 120kPa), 2700rpm 10psi (MAP 163kPa), 3000rpm 14psi held revs and noticed that boost dropped gradually to approx 6psi over few seconds. Gave it the stick a bit 3500-4000rpm rapid rise of boost to approx 15 psi and drops away again. EGT @ 18 Deg C and ECT @ 85 Deg nom (info only).

Before current mods, eng would give MAP of say up to 200kPa slight load and normally run 140-180 kPa. Did note after 3" exhaust fitted 2 weeks ago, the MAP would hit 240 kPa but seems to have come back a bit and the Fault code with plate occurred a few days initially but has stayed away since.

Engine done 107,000km owned since new 2008, serviced and all maintenance done myself since 10,000km. Has never been on dyno.

Eng sound good and runs smooth. What do you think some guidance with boost performance would be great? A bit lost at the moment.

[mudski]

If I were you bud. Don't look too hard into it as much as you are. Fit up the Dawes and needle valve and then go from there. The Dawes and needle valves will change the motors performance greatly and your current findings will be null. The boost readings you have are with the car stationary. Your best off getting readings will the car is moving and under physical load.
But it seems to me your on the ball and know what you are doing.

Have fun.

[Bidja]

OK. will fit Dawes & needle valve tomorrow. See how it goes, Thanks

[Bidja]

If I were you bud. Don't look too hard into it as much as you are. Fit up the Dawes and needle valve and then go from there. The Dawes and needle valves will change the motors performance greatly and your current findings will be null. The boost readings you have are with the car stationary. Your best off getting readings will the car is moving and under physical load.
But it seems to me your on the ball and know what you are doing.

Have fun.

Last NADS install activity today. This arvo fitted Dawes and Needle valve, after initial needle set to get 1/4" drop of VNT Rod, out the dirt road we went and engine was very sluggish working hard to get boost above 6 psi, gradually screwing in needle a bit and got turbo bit more responsive with max boost only 10psi about 8psi @ 100km. Then started (incrementally) to wind in Dawes 3/4 turn (total about) and a small amount of needle in (total movement in 1.5 graduations clockwise) gave max boost peak of 16psi with cruising @100km gave 12-14psi and 16psi @ 110km + a bit say 3100rpm (on the main sealed road). Will play some more but she is quite responsive and barking well. Then heading back home on dirt, up a solid climb where it use to just hold its own in 4th now I needed to back her off near the crest on the bend. Cool as she goes now with all NADS mods incorporated.

The forum threads read dating back to 2013 have been very useful, thanks all.
7298372984

[mudski]

Top job mate. You will find the sweet spot when tuning the valves. where it performs best. The higher the boost the better. And the max boost a nd cruise boost are relative to each other. So, when you raise or lower the max boost, the cruise boost needs to be adjusted accordingly. EG, 16psi max and 10psi at 100ks, 18psi max and 12psi at 100ks.

[Sprock]

Stationary revving & subsequent boost readings don't mean much as there is no load ( as MUDSKI said ) , no load is why they dropped off straight away , sounds like you've got your head around it anyway 👍🏼

[Bidja]

Thanks mudski, noted your advice and will play later today. Came across this thread just now (good stuff):

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?21603-ZD30-DI-boost-with-nads

[Bidja]

Top job mate. You will find the sweet spot when tuning the valves. where it performs best. The higher the boost the better. And the max boost a nd cruise boost are relative to each other. So, when you raise or lower the max boost, the cruise boost needs to be adjusted accordingly. EG, 16psi max and 10psi at 100ks, 18psi max and 12psi at 100ks.

Load Boost run #2 today, before taking off compressed up the Dawes 1.5 turns, achieved max boost of 20psi and 16/17 psi @ say 100km cruise (notices slight gauge pulse buzz as coming off max boost). Gave good spool up rate, good acceleration/pwr but gauge needle was a bit bouncy at top reading but settled quickly (22 back to 20psi). Was a bit concerned re max boost level even though eng performed well. OK then started seriously playing, reduced Dawes max boost to 18psi and cruise boost was around 15psi then started opening up the needle valve and playing with both Dawes and needle, ended up with stable max boost of 18psi and cruise boost 13 psi at 100kph. If I backed off the needle much more things became a bit sluggish. Did notice a consistent slight gauge buzz always present when ever boost pressures was above cruise boost. Spool up rate, acceleration and power all good. Never experienced limp through out testing. EGT: Need to confirm. Interested in feedback.

[mudski]

Load Boost run #2 today, before taking off compressed up the Dawes 1.5 turns, achieved max boost of 20psi and 16/17 psi @ say 100km cruise (notices slight gauge pulse buzz as coming off max boost). Gave good spool up rate, good acceleration/pwr but gauge needle was a bit bouncy at top reading but settled quickly (22 back to 20psi). Was a bit concerned re max boost level even though eng performed well. OK then started seriously playing, reduced Dawes max boost to 18psi and cruise boost was around 15psi then started opening up the needle valve and playing with both Dawes and needle, ended up with stable max boost of 18psi and cruise boost 13 psi at 100kph. If I backed off the needle much more things became a bit sluggish. Did notice a consistent slight gauge buzz always present when ever boost pressures was above cruise boost. Spool up rate, acceleration and power all good. Never experienced limp through out testing. EGT: Need to confirm. Interested in feedback.

Sorry mate. Just go home form work not long ago....
I have the opinion of dont worry too much about boost bounce. Especially if the vehicle drives well. 20psi is fine too. These motors will handle the higher boost pressure of up to around 25psi. My 3Ltr was at 25psi max and 18psi at 100ks. And it loved it. Went really well. The needle valve was almost closed right off too. I tried it at over 30psi, my boost gauge went to 30 and the needle was past this, and it was unbelievable, but speaking with a turbo mob that sells modified versions of the stock turbo, said the stock turbos limit is 25psi before they start to fail real quick.
Keep the two boost levels around the 6psi mark apart. Give or take a psi or two. But like I said. You will find the sweet spot. Each motor varies.

[Bidja]

Run #3 yesterday, snowed here @ 620m and adjusted boost amongst the falling flakes. Started off Boost max 22psi /18psi cruise and went very well. Would run higher but took note of info re: max 25psi turbo limit). Wound back to a max boost 21psi and 14psi @ 100kph (slight load) ran very well eng seemed to like it and no gauge needle bounce (may close needle a little more). EGTs after eng working for 1hr: idle (700rpm) 200 degC, cruise 14psi @100ks 325 degC and max boost slight load 21psi @110kph 375degC. No limp anytime throughout adjustments.

What do think, Max Boost OK or bring it back (thinking of turbo)?
Any advice or lessons learnt on high boost levels and their effect on low range work?

Trust you wired up that broken exhaust brkt, thanks for you time mate.

[mudski]

Run #3 yesterday, snowed here @ 620m and adjusted boost amongst the falling flakes. Started off Boost max 22psi /18psi cruise and went very well. Would run higher but took note of info re: max 25psi turbo limit). Wound back to a max boost 21psi and 14psi @ 100kph (slight load) ran very well eng seemed to like it and no gauge needle bounce (may close needle a little more). EGTs after eng working for 1hr: idle (700rpm) 200 degC, cruise 14psi @100ks 325 degC and max boost slight load 21psi @110kph 375degC. No limp anytime throughout adjustments.

What do think, Max Boost OK or bring it back (thinking of turbo)?
Any advice or lessons learnt on high boost levels and their effect on low range work?

Trust you wired up that broken exhaust brkt, thanks for you time mate.

Seems you on the money there mate. I would leave as is if your happy with how it goes. Now if you want to experiment more, play around with max boost levels and cruise boost level in relation to EGT's. Just to note, say what an extra psi or two at max and also at cruise would do to the EGT's? But I think your on the sweet spot personally.

And my exhaust bracket is just the same, the Patrol hasn't moved since finding it.

[BigRAWesty]

Righto so the crd doesnt limp with quick spool up rate like the old di did. Nor does it limp if going over boost for a bit.
But its a combination of boost and fuel over a set period of 11 seconds..
I ran 18psi max to start.
When big hills came limp mode come to as it couldnt keep the fuel up to high boost..
Drop to 16 psi and same thing.
15 and its good.
Imo the needle will stuff with dawes if you have it open to much and 1/4 start point off the limit screw is way to much, no wonder it was laggy as hell.
You want the arm to literally just move off the screw stopper.
But to set max boost close the needle completely.
So 18 might be fine for you around town but it may limp also when you really start haulung it for long periods..

I now dont run a needle. Just the tillix (same as dawes).
My boost use to be 15psi @ 100kmh with factory setup and if i tried to get anything less with the needle valve it was to laggy down low, as youve found out..
This is due to my car being 3t daily..

So imo close the needle valve, set max boost (rev out to 3500rpm for max boost)
Once your happy then open the needle untill the turbo arm just floats off the adjustment screw..
This should give you a 2-3 psi drop while cruzing..
Imo any more and its laggy down low and cruzing egts are to high as the ecu is off setiing boost with fuel to get the power needed..

[Bidja]

When big hills came limp mode come to as it couldnt keep the fuel up to high boost..

bigguwesty - Read your message when I got home last night from a drive up the mnts. Some long hauls and limp came into the picture big time.. Heaps of adjustments latter to get it as good as I could by staying above 18psi. Ended up 19psi max and cruise 12psi - slight load (handled limp OK but sluggish when revs were down and loaded up). EGT reaching 500 degC when moving out and working. Easy hwy driving performs good but not right for me..

On way home was thinking of removing needle... Before removing needle will attempt further adjustment method as:

[QUOTE]So imo close the needle valve, set max boost (rev out to 3500rpm for max boost)
Once your happy then open the needle untill the turbo arm just floats off the adjustment screw..
This should give you a 2-3 psi drop while cruzing../QUOTE]

What max boost (15psi)?

By the way, with only tillix what is your setup?

[BigRAWesty]

bigguwesty - Read your message when I got home last night from a drive up the mnts. Some long hauls and limp came into the picture big time.. Heaps of adjustments latter to get it as good as I could by staying above 18psi. Ended up 19psi max and cruise 12psi - slight load (handled limp OK but sluggish when revs were down and loaded up). EGT reaching 500 degC when moving out and working. Easy hwy driving performs good but not right for me..

On way home was thinking of removing needle... Before removing needle will attempt further adjustment method as:

[QUOTE]So imo close the needle valve, set max boost (rev out to 3500rpm for max boost)
Once your happy then open the needle untill the turbo arm just floats off the adjustment screw..
This should give you a 2-3 psi drop while cruzing../QUOTE]

What max boost (15psi)?

By the way, with only tillix what is your setup?Youll find that 15-16 is the max the ecu will allow on hills etc.
Itll last for a bit but once that time limit is reached and the fuel cant be matched itll throw to limp and kill the fuel input..
So imo wind back to 16 see how it goes, with the needle valve shut.
The crd doesnt limp with quick spool up so you wont have issues with fast spool up.
If it goes into limp still at 16 psi drop back to 15psi.
Im at 15 max and can do the adleiade hills in 5th no issues now.
Tbh i noticed no loss of power going from 18 to 15psi as there was no fuel to match it..

Once your happy with a max boost level that isnt limping then crack open the needle valve to reduce your cruzing boost a bit.

My setup is yea needle less now.
My car is a lard ass lol weighing in at 3t daily.
So i found that for the needle to have any effect it had to be open so much that ut made take off laggy as hell..
So with a max of 15psi its at max when cruzing at 100kmh i get 13lph.
Im hapoy with that..
Drop to 90 it drops to 14 psi and if i drop to 80kmh it drops to 12psi..

[Bidja]

Youll find that 15-16 is the max the ecu will allow on hills etc.
Itll last for a bit but once that time limit is reached and the fuel cant be matched itll throw to limp and kill the fuel input..
So imo wind back to 16 see how it goes, with the needle valve shut.
The crd doesnt limp with quick spool up so you wont have issues with fast spool up.
If it goes into limp still at 16 psi drop back to 15psi.
Im at 15 max and can do the adleiade hills in 5th no issues now.
Tbh i noticed no loss of power going from 18 to 15psi as there was no fuel to match it..

Once your happy with a max boost level that isnt limping then crack open the needle valve to reduce your cruzing boost a bit..


bigguwesty thanks, All good now.
Firstly, chasing the early high boost values gave me an appreciation of what poor performance was about especially when down low - valued lessons learnt)...

With needle closed found boost max of 15.5 (calibrated eye) @ 3500rpm and no limping. Then needle still closed pulled up a hill that is being redressed with a dirt/shale mix & was heavy going and very loose (H4wd / 4th gear max loading) similar to driving in loose sand. No limp. Out on main rd (sealed), Cracked opened needle to where turbo arm just moved off (0.95 turns on needle spindle "ref only"), 12.0 psi at cruise @ 100kph, and boost max 15psi. Under load pulled extremely well and with good accel. One hill/long hall, in the past before any NADS eng would struggle in 4th, now can pull/accelerate in 4th and dropped it into 5th near top. No complaints. To throw in a variable, closed off the needle 1/2 an increment further (ref 0.9 turns now) got the same max boost 15psi and now 13psi cruise boost @ 100kph. Left it at these settings (may play further). Cannot complain eng very responsive, good acceleration and great low down performance. ETs at cruise can run under but mainly at 300/325 - 375 degC load dependant and when moving out solid working/long hauls can push 480 degC. Oil pressure 380 kPa fairly consistent thru out whilst driving.

My Veh has Steel B/Bar, elec winch, steel side rails/steps. Millweld rear steel bar (6mm) with spare wheel dual jerry with axe in behind. Spare whl steel rim 17x8" and tucked behind a highlift jack (near 150kg out back). 3/4 arb steel roof rack and rear draws/fridge.

Adjustments were so positive and achieved stable boost readings, must say thanks mate and I was wondering when my bonnet hold up stick was going to wear out with all the use with valve adjustments yesterday. My needle valve will stay.

In a past life all I had to do was adjust the rack in the inj pump and it gave more juice (b series Dsl 4cyl).

[BigRAWesty]

bigguwesty thanks, All good now.
Firstly, chasing the early high boost values gave me an appreciation of what poor performance was about especially when down low - valued lessons learnt)...

With needle closed found boost max of 15.5 (calibrated eye) @ 3500rpm and no limping. Then needle still closed pulled up a hill that is being redressed with a dirt/shale mix & was heavy going and very loose (H4wd / 4th gear max loading) similar to driving in loose sand. No limp. Out on main rd (sealed), Cracked opened needle to where turbo arm just moved off (0.95 graduations on needle spindle "ref only"), 12.0 psi at cruise @ 100kph, and boost max 15psi. Under load pulled extremely well and with good accel. One hill/long hall, in the past before any NADS eng would struggle in 4th, now can pull/accelerate in 4th and dropped it into 5th near top. No complaints. To throw in a variable, closed off the needle 1/2 an increment further (ref 0.9 now) got the same max boost 15psi and now 13psi cruise boost @ 100kph. Left it at these settings (may play further). Cannot complain eng very responsive, good acceleration and great low down performance. ETs at cruise can run under but mainly at 300/325 - 375 degC load dependant and when moving out solid working/long hauls can push 480 degC. Oil pressure 380 kPa fairly consistent thru out whilst driving.

My Veh has Steel B/Bar, elec winch, steel side rails/steps. Millweld rear steel bar (6mm) with spare wheel dual jerry with axe in behind. Spare whl steel rim 17x8" and tucked behind a highlift jack (near 150kg out back). 3/4 arb steel roof rack and rear draws/fridge.

Adjustments were so positive and achieved stable boost readings, must say thanks mate and I was wondering when my bonnet hold up stick was going to wear out with all the use with valve adjustments yesterday. My needle valve will stay.

In a past life all I had to do was adjust the rack in the inj pump and it gave more juice (b series Dsl 4cyl).Glad i could assist and get you sorted.
Yea the manual boost give a far better boost curve compaired to stock ecu.
If you had gauge on with stock ecu you may have seen how much it surges, and the ecu is not only trying to control that max with a slow actuator but its also trying to match fuel load for that boost and rpm level..
So really its go no fkn hope lol as when it adds more fuel it gets more boost so its forever chasing its tail..

Also yea the needle valve is touch as hell.
I maked mine with a scribe before i started because 1/8 of a turn can be to much for it.
Imo 13psi at 100kmh is a good amount.

[sooty]

Hey fellas
I'm just setting up Dawes and needle valves and just wondering if the cruise boost level at 100 km/hr is meant to be in 4 th gear ,
Cause I'm struggling to reach 10 psi in 5 th. My max level is at 17 psi

[Bidja]

sooty, my experience is with crd what do you have?

[sooty]

2016 crd mate

[Bidja]

Sooty, assuming your IC is good. You should have read this thread, especially from when bigguwesty started giving me advice (helped me heaps).

OK, I first ran max boost up around 18-20 psi but experienced limp on solid hill climbs.

Guess you might be opening up your needle to reduce limp and subsequently your cruise boost is dropping low and it is very laggy. Found the max boost above 16psi resulted in limp on long hauls up hill.

Start again with your set up. Try closing your needle, go for a drive and adjust dawes for max boost 16 psi @ 3500rpm, do a bit of a hill haul and if you get limp, close dawes gradually say 15.5 psi and then if needed to 15psi and lock dawes when no limp occurs. Once your happy with max boost setting (dawes) then open the needle at idle revs until the turbo arm just floats off the adjustment screw..
This should give you a 2-3 psi drop while cruzing @ 100kph with slight load. Then adjust your needle by screwing it in by say 0.5 spindle graduation increments to where you feel you have good spool up and response rate whilst driving. Remember don’t touch the dawes setting after you are happy with max boost. That should be good for you.

My set up: max boost (dawes only adjustment/closed needle) is 15.5 psi @3500 rpm (no limp). Needle valve at idle was initially opened to 0.95 of a turn to get the turbo arm to just move (float) off the adjustment screw. Then driving under various load conditions ended up closing the needle a little more and locked at 0.8 of a turn on needle thimble. These setting provide good spool up, response rate and no limp to date. Each eng will vary slightly from each other. Max boost 15psi and cruise boost of 13 psi at 100kph slight load 5th gear.

[sooty]

Thanks Bidja
I'll give it another go. i haven't experienced any limp mode yet and my IC seems to be fine. I was just trying to get my cruise boost to 6 psi below max boost which is currently set at 17psi which is what i have read mudski advising.

[sooty]

bidja, have you blocked your egr?

[Bidja]

bidja, have you blocked your egr?

sotty, first post listed NADS install prior to manual boost fit and stated that egr plate fitted at exhaust manifold:


installed: TIG welded new I/C, 3" Berkley high flow mandrel bend exhaust, EGR plate (fitted at exhaust manifold), Finished VDO gauge install today: Oil Press mech, EGT Pryo (dump pipe), Boost mech. ProVent 200 fitted (info only).

Suggest you read the thread and you will see that I was chasing the 6 psi drop (max boost 18-21psi). This may works for some, worked well for me around town but not when doing long hauls up solid hills out of town. ECU could not keep the fuel up to it. By the way faults codes coming up are rare for me.

Before you start off with your manual boost (dawes) adjustment. close your needle (write down how many turn to close) go for a drive and give it some load/long haul work and the adjust dawes from there. When happy with max boost work your needle.

[sooty]

Sorry Bidja i do remember reading that yesterday now, I've just been reading a lot of threads over the last few days. Why i was asking about the egr is that I've read that it opens up while cruising and boost pressure drops. I have not blocked mine yet. Do you think this could be a factor as to why I'm not getting 10 psi at 100km/hr in 5th gear. Because i did get 10 psi at some points on flat road but it would drop down to about 7-8 psi

[BigRAWesty]

Imo 10psi in a crd is 2 low.
I now run no needle and mine floats around 14.5psi @100kmh, it's set at 15psi max so not far off.
Egts 280c ish and get around 13Lph..

[Bidja]

sooty Note bigguwesty comments.


Sorry Bidja i do remember reading that yesterday now, I've just been reading a lot of threads over the last few days. Why i was asking about the egr is that I've read that it opens up while cruising and boost pressure drops. I have not blocked mine yet. Do you think this could be a factor as to why I'm not getting 10 psi at 100km/hr in 5th gear. Because i did get 10 psi at some points on flat road but it would drop down to about 7-8 psi

All good sooty, as stated by many, blocking EGR is a worthwhile mod. Also you would have read that if you retain EGR function you can use dawes as a boost limiter so to reduce boost spikes and retain VNT control solenoid. Understand that you can retain EGR and have full manual boost control and bypass the VNT solenoid. There are a lot of members on the forum that know a lot more than me on this.

Regarding your low boost (7-8 psi @ 100 kph in 5th gear) you may have your needle valve open too far. Mark the needle valve housing note where it is currently set and screw needle in until it seats (record turns). Then come back to where you are now and screw it in half way and see what you get a cruise and then start adjusting in smaller increments from there to what you think runs best for you. Screwing needle in will probably increase spool up and cruise boost (you may get limp), if you do get limp then open needle gradually until you are happy with spool up and response. Remember at cruise have eng under slight load for boost measurements. Hope I am not trying to teach you how to suck eggs.

Personally, I would do as I originally suggested: set dawes max boost 15-16psi (without limp) with needle fully closed, when happy with max boost then adjust needle for turbo arm just to float off adjustment screw.

See how you go.

[BigRAWesty]

A video for you..
https://youtu.be/7tQziIey884

[sooty]

I'll have another play with my set up when i can as it's the wifes daily drive not mine

[Bidja]

A video for you..
https://youtu.be/7tQziIey884

Hey, checked out your video, this is 12 mnth back did you get any limp?

As you mentioned:

I now run no needle and mine floats around 14.5psi @100kmh, it's set at 15psi max so not far off.
Egts 280c ish and get around 13Lph..

with you current setup using tillix valve only (no needle valve) are you using the VNT solenoid or just relying on ecu?
EGTs of only 280c is special, i get this just poking around but when working get up around 500 c - whats the go?


my max boost 15psi & cruise boost of 13psi @ 100kph

[BigRAWesty]

Hey, checked out your video, this is 12 mnth back did you get any limp?

As you mentioned:


with you current setup using tillix valve only (no needle valve) are you using the VNT solenoid or just relying on ecu?
EGTs of only 280c is special, i get this just poking around but when working get up around 500 c - whats the go?


my max boost 15psi & cruise boost of 13psi @ 100kphYep it was 12 months ago now.
Yes got limp going up hills so now back to 15psi.
And nope to ecu, just tillix alone on standard actuator..
Mine was 15psi as factory curzing at 100kmh and tillix alone sits on 14-15psi.
But yea crd doesn't need a slow spool like the di

[Bidja]

Yep it was 12 months ago now.
Yes got limp going up hills so now back to 15psi.
And nope to ecu, just tillix alone on standard actuator..
Mine was 15psi as factory curzing at 100kmh and tillix alone sits on 14-15psi.
But yea crd doesn't need a slow spool like the di

Yep thought you dropped your max boost to avoid limp from what you said wk or so back.

Noted your needle adjust of 1/8 turn off seat. This morn went into town (DAWES @ nom 15psi MAX boost) I closed up needle from current set 0.8 turn off seat (13psi cruise) down to 0.2 of a turn off seat. Max boost lifted slightly (15.5psi) and also cruise 13-14psi at 100km/h - as expected got quicker spool up and feels ok. Yet to long haul.

Guess I would replicate your set up boost controlled performance if I was to close needle completely and leave solenoid blocked/isolated. Am I understanding correctly?

Note my turbo arm floated at 0.9 of a turn off needle seat

[BigRAWesty]

Yep thought you dropped your max boost to avoid limp from what you said wk or so back.

Noted your needle adjust of 1/8 turn off seat. This morn went into town (DAWES @ nom 15psi MAX boost) I closed up needle from current set 0.8 turn off seat (13psi cruise) down to 0.2 of a turn off seat. Max boost lifted slightly (15.5psi) and also cruise 13-14psi at 100km/h - as expected got quicker spool up and feels ok. Yet to long haul.

Guess I would replicate your set up boost controlled performance if I was to close needle completely and leave solenoid blocked/isolated. Am I understanding correctly?

Note my turbo arm floated at 0.9 of a turn off needle seatYep if you close the needle you'll get the same setup..
I'll out the needle back in when the remap gets done.
I'll be around 20psi then but I'll have a solenode in line to open / close the needle at the flick of a switch.
So when cruzing it's open and reduced boost to say 13-14psi.
Close it around town and enjoy the 450Nm and 100 plus Kw..

[Bidja]

Yep if you close the needle you'll get the same setup..
I'll out the needle back in when the remap gets done.
I'll be around 20psi then but I'll have a solenode in line to open / close the needle at the flick of a switch.
So when cruzing it's open and reduced boost to say 13-14psi.
Close it around town and enjoy the 450Nm and 100 plus Kw..

Closed needle yesturday and yep obtained boost figures very close to yours. 15+bit psi max boost /cruise boost 14-15psi. Good run. Did open needle 1/10 turn of seat as do only about 10% town driving at best. Got a good 15 psi max boost & cruise 14 psi at 100kph. Going mnts friday and check for limp(will play). Pretty good handle on it now. Thanks heaps.

When you get your remap done and back in with needle + solenoid would be real interested at getting detail from you.

Must say, do very little town driving, live rural and do trips up the mountains (snowies) to fly fish for trout.

[shantillylais]

Hi guys, new to all the nads stuff, and lots of acronyms etc to learn as well as figures you all talk about. However, I have also had it suggested to me to get a remap done (pulling power plus egr block). I was going to block the egr at the exhaust manifold when I get exhaust place to weld in a bung for the pyro as well. So things to do etc etc. My question, is in what order to do it without redoing work, eg what is best? dawes/tillex then remap, or can I just go straight remap? My exhaust is already 3" and engine only done 66,800kms. To Kallen, is there anywhere in the Mount where I can get this done or is it reasonably simple (I am ok with old style engines, not so with tech stuff). cheers Lana

[4bye4]

Hi guys, new to all the nads stuff, and lots of acronyms etc to learn as well as figures you all talk about. However, I have also had it suggested to me to get a remap done (pulling power plus egr block). I was going to block the egr at the exhaust manifold when I get exhaust place to weld in a bung for the pyro as well. So things to do etc etc. My question, is in what order to do it without redoing work, eg what is best? dawes/tillex then remap, or can I just go straight remap? My exhaust is already 3" and engine only done 66,800kms. To Kallen, is there anywhere in the Mount where I can get this done or is it reasonably simple (I am ok with old style engines, not so with tech stuff). cheers Lana

Others may disagree but I would suggest get your gauges in (pyro EGT and boost) so you can see what your motor is doing now. Then EGR block and NADS (Dawes/Tillex) your choice, I have Dawes on mine. See what the motor is doing, then the remap. Or if you have plenty of cash just hand it to a reputable tuner and tell them to bring it back done.
Cheers Tony.


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[mudski]

Closed needle yesturday and yep obtained boost figures very close to yours. 15+bit psi max boost /cruise boost 14-15psi. Good run. Did open needle 1/10 turn of seat as do only about 10% town driving at best. Got a good 15 psi max boost & cruise 14 psi at 100kph. Going mnts friday and check for limp(will play). Pretty good handle on it now. Thanks heaps.

When you get your remap done and back in with needle + solenoid would be real interested at getting detail from you.

Must say, do very little town driving, live rural and do trips up the mountains (snowies) to fly fish for trout.

Your spool up will be insanely fast, the boost curve would be really steep and it would drop off earlier than usual, and boost bounce in the hills will probably bring on limp mode. Every motor reacts different though. If it were me I would open the needle valve a tad, a little tad, and raise the max boost. 15psi ain't much.

[mudski]

Others may disagree but I would suggest get your gauges in (pyro EGT and boost) so you can see what your motor is doing now. Then EGR block and NADS (Dawes/Tillex) your choice, I have Dawes on mine. See what the motor is doing, then the remap. Or if you have plenty of cash just hand it to a reputable tuner and tell them to bring it back done.
Cheers Tony.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Exactly how I would do it. Gauges in first. Well you need them in first anyway before you play around with and boost control. You need to see whats happening.

[Bidja]

Hi guys, new to all the nads stuff, and lots of acronyms etc to learn as well as figures you all talk about. However, I have also had it suggested to me to get a remap done (pulling power plus egr block). I was going to block the egr at the exhaust manifold when I get exhaust place to weld in a bung for the pyro as well. So things to do etc etc. My question, is in what order to do it without redoing work, eg what is best? dawes/tillex then remap, or can I just go straight remap? My exhaust is already 3" and engine only done 66,800kms. To Kallen, is there anywhere in the Mount where I can get this done or is it reasonably simple (I am ok with old style engines, not so with tech stuff). cheers Lana

Lana, your mods to date are all good (exhaust & provent200) + the Scangauge (to erase possible errors resulting from blocking EGR assy.

Do agree with 4bye4:


get your gauges in (pyro EGT and boost) so you can see what your motor is doing now.

I have Dawes on mine (happy) not saying it is better just went this way as did not compare against Tillex.

IMO.

Firstly:

I installed my egr plate at exhaust manifold same as you are thinking. Only got a few faults early on very rare now (fitted plate when installed 3" exhaust)

Get your EGR plate, gauges and pyro weld-in boss to suit pyro probe thread (more than likely 1/4" NPT). Suggest you install EGR plate at same time as welding in EGT pyro boss (in dump pipe), as heat shied will need to be removed for both jobs and drilling for install of EGT pyro probe.

For boost take off, I fitted a Quick Fit Adaptor installed at MAP sensor located front of IC. Adaptor came with a 4mm straight barbed nipple which I fitted a small length of flex tube from adaptor/nipple to a block T piece, the remaining 2 outlets of T: one for boost gauge line and the other for dawes connect (this outlet was initially blocked awaiting install of dawes and needle valve). Able to obtain boost reference before and after manual boost install.

Look at $$$ for staged approach, maybe you will do gauge install and manual boost control yourself. These are not too difficult to install. Help is around. John

Note - check IC for leaks mine leaked at 100,000ks.

[Bidja]

Your spool up will be insanely fast, the boost curve would be really steep and it would drop off earlier than usual, and boost bounce in the hills will probably bring on limp mode. Every motor reacts different though. If it were me I would open the needle valve a tad, a little tad, and raise the max boost. 15psi ain't much.

Do understand and working thru the variations provides for good learning..

Have run 18-21psi max boost / cruise boost 12-13psi @ 100kph. Severe limp @ long hill hauls. Avoid limp open needle too laggy.

Dawes above 16psi get limp (long hauls).

Best to date:
Set Dawes Max Boost 15.5+psi / open needle 0.95 turn to just float turbo arm. Ended up max boost 15.5psi / 0.8 turns of needle with cruise boost of 13psi @ 100kph (good spool rate and responsive). No limp to date.

[shantillylais]

thanks guys, I just bought the kit on ebay from Northern4x4, now I see that is mudski
I cant do the pyro yet until I can get an exhaust place to do it for me, normally I would do it but hurt my hip and lower back so reaching over the mudguard and crawling on the floor is a bit hard atm for this impatient grey haired old chick LOL. What I have noticed is the approx. 2lb pressure difference in boost between the gauge and the scan gauge. The normal gauge is plumbed into the inlet pipe of the intercooler, dont know where the scan gauge gets its reading from. cheers Lana

[shantillylais]

ps, hoping that bigguwesty Kallen will chime in since he is nearby for a guide as to which places to help with exhaust/pyro bung etc

[mudski]

Do understand and working thru the variations provides for good learning..

Have run 18-21psi max boost / cruise boost 12-13psi @ 100kph. Severe limp @ long hill hauls. Avoid limp open needle too laggy.

Dawes above 16psi get limp (long hauls).

Best to date:
Set Dawes Max Boost 15.5+psi / open needle 0.95 turn to just float turbo arm. Ended up max boost 15.5psi / 0.8 turns of needle with cruise boost of 13psi @ 100kph (good spool rate and responsive). No limp to date.

Yeah bugger. My 3ltr was the same. Anything over 16psi I got limp mode. There is volt mod tricks you can do to the maf to overcome limp mode. Never done it but plenty have with success. A remap will do this too but for the price of a remap, no thanks.

[mudski]

thanks guys, I just bought the kit on ebay from Northern4x4, now I see that is mudski
I cant do the pyro yet until I can get an exhaust place to do it for me, normally I would do it but hurt my hip and lower back so reaching over the mudguard and crawling on the floor is a bit hard atm for this impatient grey haired old chick LOL. What I have noticed is the approx. 2lb pressure difference in boost between the gauge and the scan gauge. The normal gauge is plumbed into the inlet pipe of the intercooler, dont know where the scan gauge gets its reading from. cheers Lana

Lana if your intercooler is the original. Have a real close look at it for leaks. If you have any boost leaks at all, no matter how small, there is no chance of setting up the valves. Do you need a weld in bung for the exhaust pyro? I have 1/8 npt weld in bungs. If you want one, let me know via eBay messaging before 12pm Friday and I'll chuck one in.

Thanks for your order too. Its greatly appreciated.

[shantillylais]

that's a nice offer thank you mudski but yes I have one. I am also making enquiries about a intercooler upgrade even tho' there doesn't seem to be any leaks at this point.

[shantillylais]

the kit arrived today mudski super quick thanks, have the pyro in now, taking it for a spin this afternoon to see what its doing before I start on the install of the kit. thanks again.

[shantillylais]

mudski sending you a pm, hope its ok.
after a hic-up with my pyro, took it for a cruise down the highway at 100km on cruise. Boost was varying all over, but mostly around 15psi, pyro was about 300.
then took it up our one and only hill, about 75m rise over a 1km distance, so reasonably steep.
on cruise at 110km, pyro hit 475, and boost was 22, but dropped back to 10 as I got almost to the top of the hill. I lost maybe 5km/hr up the hill but wanted to see how it went basically standard except for the exhaust.
next step will be the dawes and needle, and where to put the needle for ease of adjustment.

[Bidja]

the kit arrived today mudski super quick thanks, have the pyro in now, taking it for a spin this afternoon to see what its doing before I start on the install of the kit. thanks again.

Lana, Did you get around to installing the dawes and needle valve and would be interested in what boost values you acheived with no limp.

[Bidja]

Yeah bugger. My 3ltr was the same. Anything over 16psi I got limp mode. There is volt mod tricks you can do to the maf to overcome limp mode. Never done it but plenty have with success. A remap will do this too but for the price of a remap, no thanks.
With the passing of time, good info from this forum, other place along with a better understanding of my CRD manual boost control, I am satisfied with current run result:

Just did a trip to mtns total climb 600m over 150km run (some decent long hauls) getting max boost 17/17.5 psi at 100k/h (2500 rpm) and holding that boost level as revs decreased and where the speed did occasionally increase (long haul), the max boost went to 18psi @ 2800rpm. Cruise boost @ 100k/h (slight load) of 15-16psi. EGTs, cruise say 325-400 degC and on long haul solid work 600-680 odd deg C. Lower cruise boost with OEM ecu mapping proves to be too sluggish for me. Did some low range work, the torque increase and response at low revs is impressive compared to before NADS install. Next will likely do ECU remap.

Also, I use a throttle control unit that does effectively reduce throttle lag and provides real time quicker pwr response but it is worth noting that the rate of response differential is not as noticeable now since NADS install but remains effective and do adjust it for various driving conditions.

[Bidja]

Successful Manual Boost adjust for Stock ECU

Imo the needle will stuff with dawes if you have it open to much and 1/4 start point off the limit screw is way to much, no wonder it was laggy as hell.
You want the arm to literally just move off the screw stopper.
But to set max boost close the needle completely.


So imo close the needle valve, set max boost (rev out to 3500rpm for max boost)
Once your happy then open the needle until the turbo arm just floats off the adjustment screw..
This should give you a 2-3 psi drop while cruzing..
Imo any more and its laggy down low and cruzing egts are to high as the ecu is off setiing boost with fuel to get the power needed..

Kallen, ECPT returned my ECU yesterday as they did a postal remap of my 08 CRD stock ECU. I have set Dawes to provide a Max Boost of 21psi with needle closed (No limp to date hauling). ECPT recommend 20-22 psi Max Boost and state that the AFR will be around 22:1.

Cruise Boost From what I am observing, I can confidentially achieve a 6-7 psi drop for cruise boost but I feel it is too laggy low down in revs. Question: Should I adjust the needle valve in the same manner as was done for the stock ecu as you advised?
open the needle until the turbo arm just floats off the adjustment screw..
Thanks, John

[BigRAWesty]

Successful Manual Boost adjust for Stock ECU

Kallen, ECPT returned my ECU yesterday as they did a postal remap of my 08 CRD stock ECU. I have set Dawes to provide a Max Boost of 21psi with needle closed (No limp to date hauling). ECPT recommend 20-22 psi Max Boost and state that the AFR will be around 22:1.

Cruise Boost From what I am observing, I can confidentially achieve a 6-7 psi drop for cruise boost but I feel it is too laggy low down in revs. Question: Should I adjust the needle valve in the same manner as was done for the stock ecu as you advised?
Thanks, JohnIt's a fine balance act that's for sure.
Try closing needle a little. It'll increase the curzing boost a bi t but also make it a bit perkier down low.
However have a look over the vacume system. Make sure all the hoses are in good order. When working with big boost you want full vacume to play with..

[Bidja]

It's a fine balance act that's for sure.
Try closing needle a little. It'll increase the curzing boost a bi t but also make it a bit perkier down low.
However have a look over the vacume system. Make sure all the hoses are in good order. When working with big boost you want full vacume to play with..

Vac/Boost plumbing all good.
Remapped ECU and set Dawes max boost 21psi.
Went for a run up the mnts (400ks rnd trip), consisting steep/winding solid hauls (some climbs 3rd and 4th gear holding max boost 21psi), hwy cruising and low range stuff.

EGTs before remap were reasonable good with NADS but have noticed further improvement (especially at higher load conditions hauling). Say now 550 down from 580degC (hauling).

No boost spikes or limp what so ever. Good run.
Now have needle in cab and adjust on the fly.

Start of trip, felt it was a bit laggy hauling, started to close needle and really felt when the turbo kicked in and boost came into play. Found the needle positioned at 1.2 turns off seat (solid hauling) but opened up to 1.5 – 2 turns on hwy to get the cruise boost down to 15/16psi.

Fuel usage (veh camped up 3.2 tonne) 13.8 lt/100kms, was 14.5lt/100kms prior to remap (similar drive).

Boost runs at 21 psi most of the time, when ever above 2200rpm (same with any loads above slight), does drop right away when load removed.

Is this due remap profile or typical behaviour?

Plenty of pwr so maybe drop max boost 19-20psi? (thinking of turbo life and possibly reduce cruise boost)

Low down torque between 1600/1800-2000 rpm seems to have reduced and the 3” Xpipe is not as throaty low down or under high load as it was prior to remap. Wondering why.
Can low down torque be improved? (notice it off road)

[BigRAWesty]

Vac/Boost plumbing all good.
Remapped ECU and set Dawes max boost 21psi.
Went for a run up the mnts (400ks rnd trip), consisting steep/winding solid hauls (some climbs 3rd and 4th gear holding max boost 21psi), hwy cruising and low range stuff.

EGTs before remap were reasonable good with NADS but have noticed further improvement (especially at higher load conditions hauling). Say now 550 down from 580degC (hauling).

No boost spikes or limp what so ever. Good run.
Now have needle in cab and adjust on the fly.

Start of trip, felt it was a bit laggy hauling, started to close needle and really felt when the turbo kicked in and boost came into play. Found the needle positioned at 1.2 turns off seat (solid hauling) but opened up to 1.5 – 2 turns on hwy to get the cruise boost down to 15/16psi.

Fuel usage (veh camped up 3.2 tonne) 13.8 lt/100kms, was 14.5lt/100kms prior to remap (similar drive).

Boost runs at 21 psi most of the time, when ever above 2200rpm (same with any loads above slight), does drop right away when load removed.

Is this due remap profile or typical behaviour?

Plenty of pwr so maybe drop max boost 19-20psi? (thinking of turbo life and possibly reduce cruise boost)

Low down torque between 1600/1800-2000 rpm seems to have reduced and the 3” Xpipe is not as throaty low down or under high load as it was prior to remap. Wondering why.
Can low down torque be improved? (notice it off road)

First up is it crd or Di??
Yes it's typical of remap, and more boost.
Don't drop the boost or your AFR's (air fuel ratio) will be out and rich, which will decrease power and increase EGT's.
Yes low torque can be improved but it has to be done with remap.
More fuel down low will make turbo spool quicker and more power..

[Bidja]

First up is it crd or Di??
Yes it's typical of remap, and more boost.
Don't drop the boost or your AFR's (air fuel ratio) will be out and rich, which will decrease power and increase EGT's.
Yes low torque can be improved but it has to be done with remap.
More fuel down low will make turbo spool quicker and more power..

Mine 2008 CRD.

ECU remap EGTs (degC) cruise @ 100ks 280-375, lazily poking around below 300s, med load 400-450, High loads 500, ringing it 580(yet to see higher with remap).

So turbo life will be OK running mostly 21psi.
ECPT recommends for remap -MaxB 20-22psi for AFR 22:1. Harley(ecpt) sent me a message and will speak Monday.

[BigRAWesty]

Mine 2008 CRD.

ECU remap EGTs (degC) cruise @ 100ks 280-375, lazily poking around below 300s, med load 400-450, High loads 500, ringing it 580(yet to see higher with remap).

So turbo life will be OK running mostly 21psi.
ECPT recommends for remap -MaxB 20-22psi for AFR 22:1. Harley(ecpt) sent me a message and will speak Monday.

Yea Harley knows his stuff. I'd nearly make the trip across to see him with mine.
So being crd mate we don't need spool control..
So what I'll be doing once remapped is running a open / close solenode on the needle valve.
So when the valve is closed you get max boost and max spool rate.
Then when cursing you can flick a switch and open the valve so needle valve comes into affect. That way you can open the valve more to reduce the cursing boost but still get full power at a flick of the switch..

But those egts sound great atm..

As for turbo life....
Look it's a blind stab. Some last forever at those specs and higher. Some spin the shafts out due to shaft speed.
They are a small turbo.... and 22psi is it's limits.
They'll go higher but there is only so much air you can push threw a straw..

Have a chat to Harley though about the low torque.
He'll sort it.

[threedogs]

that's a nice offer thank you mudski but yes I have one. I am also making enquiries about a intercooler upgrade even tho' there doesn't seem to be any leaks at this point.

if it looks at all a little bit oily [intercooler] its leaking they all do just check Hodges thread.
Being a 3ltr a big IC is just a waste of money to me money which could be spent elsewhere
maybe towards a front locker

[Bidja]

Like to say G'day threedogs.

Yeh, read some good info posted by yourself, relevant in my adventures re: full NADS install (CRD), fitted an ADRAD import tig welded I/C. Now on remap journey. Thanks mate. Bidja was my best mate (kelpie with me 11 yrs), had to say goodbye short while back, have three others (kelpies) to help out. Saw yours, provide great suport and company. All the best.

Forum provides a lot.

[Bidja]

Yea Harley knows his stuff. I'd nearly make the trip across to see him with mine.
So being crd mate we don't need spool control..
So what I'll be doing once remapped is running a open / close solenode on the needle valve.
So when the valve is closed you get max boost and max spool rate.
Then when cursing you can flick a switch and open the valve so needle valve comes into affect. That way you can open the valve more to reduce the cursing boost but still get full power at a flick of the switch..

But those egts sound great atm..

As for turbo life....
Look it's a blind stab. Some last forever at those specs and higher. Some spin the shafts out due to shaft speed.
They are a small turbo.... and 22psi is it's limits.
They'll go higher but there is only so much air you can push threw a straw..

Have a chat to Harley though about the low torque.
He'll sort it.

Yeh, will chat to Harley, probably go catch up at Tuggerah (4.5 hrs) for me. Like to play some more and understand control / performance with my hand first.

Very interested in getting info on solenoid type /part # etc. Guess fit between needle and resonator air box. Have read a bit on the forum of solenoid use.
We spoke previously on acheiving max spool rate (and to set dawes/max boost), have run with needle closed and opened slightly prior to remap with great results.

Happy with EGTs.

[threedogs]

with your drop pipe or Cat buy a high flow, I havent read your complete thread so dont know what you have.
Get it ceramic coated I highly recommend it over wrapping it it will keep un wanted heat out of the cabin,wont cost an arm or a leg but once done forgotten an keeps heat where it should be in the pipe, have a quick read up on thermal dynamics, sound difficult but simple in application.
I run a turbo beanie for the same reason with good results

[Bidja]

with your drop pipe or Cat buy a high flow, I havent read your complete thread so dont know what you have.
Get it ceranic coated I highly recommend it over wrapping it it will keep un wanted heat out of the cabin,wont cost an arm or a leg but once done forgotten an keeps heat where it should be in the pipe, have a quick read up on thermal dynamics, sound difficult but simple in application.
I run a turbo beanie for the same reason with good results

08 CRD NADS install - Dawes/needle valve, 3" Berkley SS high flow exhaust (turbo back), EGR solid plate (fitted at exhaust manifold), ProVent 200 CC, VDO gauge: EGT Pryo (dump pipe), Boost (mech), Oil Press (elec). TIG welded new ADRAD I/C. ECU remap.

Will have a read up on the pipe over wrapping (is this dump pipe?) and turbo beanie.

[threedogs]

Also if its an auto run it in normal not overdrive it will get the gas out faster

[Bidja]

So being crd mate we don't need spool control..
So what I'll be doing once remapped is running a open / close solenode on the needle valve.

Can you give a heads up mate on solenoid type /part # etc. Guess fit between needle and resonator air box. Have read a bit on the forum of solenoid use.

[BigRAWesty]

Can you give a heads up mate on solenoid type /part # etc. Guess fit between needle and resonator air box. Have read a bit on the forum of solenoid use.Yea you basically want a 2 port solenode like below.. but to site your fittings.
Then yea fit between needle valve and res box.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2 F362128747272

[Bidja]

Yea you basically want a 2 port solenode like below.. but to site your fittings.
Then yea fit between needle valve and res box.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2 F362128747272

Thanks mate and note that they handle temp down to -10degC suits well.