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Timbo
28th May 2010, 11:42 PM
What is EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) and why should I block it?

Wiki link for in-depth explanation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation)

TLDR;
*EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders.
*EGR deletion results in an increase in fuel economy as high as 25%.

Some people have also noticed an increase in power and a quicker turbo spool. IF there are any power increases at all, they would have to be pretty minute. However, I can attest to a quicker turbo spool up by at least a few hundred revs.

How do I block the EGR Valve?

It's a pretty easy do-it-yourself job. Allow an hour or so to do the job, and make sure the motor is cool enough to work on comfortably.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/3.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/4.jpg

This is what the EGR blanking plate should look like..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/5.jpg


The easiest way to do this job is to loosen the 2 nuts as pictured in the 2nd picture. You don't need to take them all the way off, just loosen them enough to be able to pull the EGR Valve (big brass ufo looking thing) away from the manifold. All we are doing is sliding the plate in.

For the plate, you'll want some thin sheet metal.. I used stainless steel. I have read that tin is fine. Not too sure about alluminium.. I've read is may corrode but I'm not sure. You want to basically end up with a shape similar to what I quickly draw in the last picture. As you try to fit it, you will see where it needs to be refined to the correct shape. For this, I used Tin Snips and a round file.

Once you get a plate that fits, you slide it in between the Manifold and the EGR Valve, then tighten the 2 nuts back up. Simple as that.

Good luck!

RustyNails
4th June 2010, 01:56 PM
Should have read this post first.
Interesting your comment about only minute increase in power, makes me think why bother.
Best template I have seen for the plate, thanks.

Paul

Timbo
4th June 2010, 02:02 PM
No worries. Took my plate off and redrew it in Illustrator.

There's a few reason to do it. I guess the ultimate being that it's increases your fuel economy by up to 25% and it's actually cleaner for the environment. Read the link in my post and it tells you about which gasses it cuts back on.
Technically, it doesn't deliver more power, but, if your 4wd is turbo then it makes the turbo spool up quicker which means getting power slightly earlier. So in a way it is more power, but it isn't.... does that make sense? haha.

AB
4th June 2010, 03:45 PM
No it makes perfect sense mate, good thread!

Would be handy if you need it quick as the 2.8's can be slow to pick up rev's.

the evil twin
6th June 2010, 06:51 PM
There's a few reason to do it. I guess the ultimate being that it's increases your fuel economy by up to 25% and it's actually cleaner for the environment. Read the link in my post and it tells you about which gasses it cuts back on.


Uuummmm thats not quite correct in our context... EGR is how Nissan chose to manage Nox emmissions to meet world anti-pollution standards. I totally agree EGR on its own does raise particulate and gas pollutant levels but these are managed by other anti-pollution systems on their engines. Therefore blocking the EGR significantly raises Nox but doesn't correspondingly lower particulates and other gases as they are already being managed by filters and Cats etc.

Don't get me wrong... I am in favour of blocking EGR (or reducing it on CRDs) but purely for selfish reasons ... it doesn't help the environment because with all its drawbacks there is no way Nissan would have EGR there unless it was absolutely necessary to meet the anti-pol regs. If they could get 25% better fuel economy without needing it they would be dancing in the streets.

Timbo
7th June 2010, 08:45 AM
What's an environment? :P Nah your right with your comment. Probably not the best for the environment. Just like massive oil spills in the ocean and factories pumping out tonnes of gasses through their chimneys.. whatever we do we're adding to everything.

As for fuel economy, not every will see up to 25% gains. Most people probably won't even notice any change.. but it's pretty hard with 4wd's. They aren't the most aerodynamic beasts. Plus, we add all these accessories to our rigs and kind of expect the same economy. Suspension lifts, bullbars, rear bars, spotlights, roof racks, this that and the other.. all adds wind drag and uses more fuel.

Maybe I should change my sales pitch to "Reduces Exhaust Gas Temperatures". :D

the evil twin
7th June 2010, 02:30 PM
Maybe I should change my sales pitch to "Reduces Exhaust Gas Temperatures". :D



ROFL.. Hiya G Unit

Actually the biggest plus in my opinion would be the big reduction in soot and particulates getting shoved back thru the engine.

From the many discussions on the 'net about EGR the one common thing that stands out from all the posts is how much cleaner everyone reckons the oil is. Considering the oil is only getting a small percentage of the crud as the majority does go out the exhaust eventually it must be a VERY beneficial mod to reduce engine wear.

Waddya reckon Rusty... perhaps we need a Perth Garage Day and knock over all our ZD30's together

RustyNails
7th June 2010, 03:34 PM
Waddya reckon Rusty... perhaps we need a Perth Garage Day and knock over all our ZD30's together

Wash your mpouth out ET, mine has six pots not four, go the mighty 2.8.
Garage Day is a good idea though as besides the EGR I have a list of things to do and am a long way from a competent mechanic.

Paul

Chambo Off to Work We Go
4th July 2010, 02:34 PM
Do the dealers and workshops around do this modification?
And is it something that is commonly done?

patch697
4th July 2010, 05:14 PM
Do the dealers and workshops around do this modification?
And is it something that is commonly done?

I doubt it if a dealer would do this mod but a good off road workshop Should be able to.

Yes its a commonly done mod, in fact there is a spread on it here in the DIY section under: Nissan Patrol Reference Document. it outlines this mod & a hole lot of other info as well.


Cheers
Paul

NickBGU4
11th July 2010, 08:55 PM
For anyone with the 3 litre ZD30DI engine, all the information to do this mod is in the "Nissan Patrol Reference Document located" in the DIY-manuals section. Please bear in mind that this mod is technically illegal because you are interfering with part of the emission control system (big fines if caught), but the chances of anyone noticing this mod are slim to none. The benefits are well worth the risk.

NickBGU4
11th July 2010, 09:04 PM
Sorry Double post, not sure what happened there.

Patrolling
12th July 2010, 09:20 PM
I downloaded that reference doc the other night.

I cant imagine how long it would have taken to make something like that.

NickBGU4
13th July 2010, 07:08 AM
No idea how long it would have taken, but it is a fantastic document. Aksniss deserves a big pat on the back for all the work that he has put into compiling all of this information.

Pedro173
16th August 2010, 12:35 PM
Great stuff I know what I'll be doing Saturday Morning

Chappy0871
17th August 2010, 12:49 PM
How you all going? Has their been much feed back when doing this mod to the 3 lt diesels. I am looking to reduce the turbo lag when taking off in 1st.

my third 256
4th September 2010, 06:17 AM
Uuummmm thats not quite correct in our context... EGR is how Nissan chose to manage Nox emmissions to meet world anti-pollution standards. I totally agree EGR on its own does raise particulate and gas pollutant levels but these are managed by other anti-pollution systems on their engines. Therefore blocking the EGR significantly raises Nox but doesn't correspondingly lower particulates and other gases as they are already being managed by filters and Cats etc.

Don't get me wrong... I am in favour of blocking EGR (or reducing it on CRDs) but purely for selfish reasons ... it doesn't help the environment because with all its drawbacks there is no way Nissan would have EGR there unless it was absolutely necessary to meet the anti-pol regs. If they could get 25% better fuel economy without needing it they would be dancing in the streets.

why only reduce it on a crd please explain thanks stephen

oldtimer
11th September 2010, 08:09 PM
Yep, I agree. Being a tuning specialist for over 10 years back in the 80's I have seen many cars fitted with EGR disconnected. Even to this day the EGR is being disabled. Years ago EGR valves were an absolute pain in the arse. Most would stick partially on, causing idle instability and higher fuel consumption and due to the corrosive nature of the gas, it would eat aluminium and cause lots of problems. I will admit I would disconnect them at the first opportunity, just to stop the accociated problems for my customers. They are fitted only to reduce the NOx pollutant which is produced by high combustion chamber temperatures. Recirculating a small portion of burnt gas (up to 10%) the chamber temperatures are reduced. The up to 25% increase in fuel economy is a falacy. At best 5% would be max. I would suggest anyone that gets better than that, must have had an absolutely stuffed valve to begin with & are therefore justified in getting rid of it. Remember though depending on which state you live in, if your car is tested for NOx levels, you will fail, but what are the chances of that.
Cheers
Mike

my third 256
12th September 2010, 02:55 AM
why only reduce it on a crd please explain thanks stephen

so how much should it be reduced please
stephen

kevjulie
12th September 2010, 08:34 PM
Hi everyone I am new here, but am having what now seems to be a common problem losing power on hills but seems to pick up again when I back off on eccelarator and depress until it cuts out again. I have clean and check air flow sensor but all readings are good so thinking might be EGR. Does anyone howmuch a new one is?

Kev.

YNOT
12th September 2010, 09:16 PM
G'day Kev,
Going by the symptoms you're describing I'm guessing you also own a 3l GU Patrol? A bit more information will make it easier for us to help you.

Tony

foxie
14th September 2010, 04:50 PM
Thanks for than G- Unit ive got a mate making me one up ill put in in this weekend

Timbo
23rd September 2010, 10:42 AM
No problems mate.

I'm actually going to take the EGR probe thing out of the manifold on the weekend. I'm still getting an annoying whistling noise noise and it just HAS to be related to the EGR somehow.. I can't think of anything else, so this is the next step.

Cheers

fatmacca
25th September 2010, 09:36 PM
The reference document posted is outstanding thanks for the detail

Roady
7th October 2010, 10:54 PM
I have blocked off my EGR, but i blocked it at the exhaust manifold end. Reason being, I thought it would reduce the heat being transfered along the EGR pipe. It may or may not make much differance.

Chaz
8th October 2010, 06:34 AM
I have blocked off my EGR, but i blocked it at the exhaust manifold end. Reason being, I thought it would reduce the heat being transfered along the EGR pipe. It may or may not make much differance.

It won’t make any difference. Most people just block it at the inlet manifold because it’s easier to do, but stopping the gas flow from anywhere does the trick and the alloy pipe from the valve to the inlet manifold no longer gets hot.

One advantage to blocking it at the inlet manifold is that you no longer get oil building up in the EGR valve.

AB
8th October 2010, 02:22 PM
Stuck this thread, thanks Timbo.

matty
10th October 2010, 04:11 PM
in this case timbo your just stating its a better way of utilising the power earlier im just aboutm to go this to my 2.8 td GQ and ill let you know how I go

the ferret
12th October 2010, 06:39 PM
Hi Guys, If I happen to punch out a bunch of EGR blocking plates that slide in as described in the post above, would anyone be interested?,
cheers The Ferret.

RustyNails
12th October 2010, 10:28 PM
Would be depending on what you make them out of.
Stainless is supposedly the best, been looking around to find some off scraps but so far haven't found any./

Paul

the ferret
12th October 2010, 10:54 PM
Yeah, 316L or 304 stainless would be the go, I have access to plenty 1mm thick.

Timbo
13th October 2010, 08:26 AM
I have seen a few people around various forums asking someone to do the whole job for them. It might be worth trying I guess. I thought about doing it but the majority of 4wd owners are DIY'ers and I didn't really see much sales in it.

the ferret
13th October 2010, 10:18 AM
Ha Ha Timbo, I'm afraid my days under the bonnet are just about over, however I have the gear and could tool up for a batch.
It'd be easier to grab one from the letter box than sourcing the material and then having to make one eh?
then just back off the nuts, slide it in, tighten er up and ya done. cheers.

RustyNails
13th October 2010, 07:05 PM
Is 1mm thick enough?

the ferret
13th October 2010, 07:15 PM
yeah I reckon, stainless is a lot stronger than steel and 1mm would take 100psi over that small area, I have 1mm and 1.6 anyway, a piece of jam tin would even do the job I'd say.

Chops
15th October 2010, 12:01 AM
I was watching "Your 4x4" on Aurora channel two days ago, and they had a segment on the "Grenade GU". They had a guy from Berrimah Diesel on the show who commented on blocking the EGR to aid in solving that problem.

the ferret
18th October 2010, 12:30 AM
Yeah I am concerned about dust entering the inlet manifold, so I will supply a glued on gasket with the "shim" to seal between the inlet manifold and the "shim", best to be on the safe side as dust is a sneaky enemy of any engine.

Timbo
18th October 2010, 08:28 AM
I have used 1mm stainless on mine. No dramas at all. It's a tiny area as Ferret said.

Kreskin
18th October 2010, 08:52 AM
Indeed it helps... By simply putting the shim in (or blind cap) the result is noticable...

Pete's GU3
19th October 2010, 08:41 PM
Is 1mm thick enough?

only sounds thick enough to wrap my chicken schnitzel sandwich in ??????????????? i dunno

the ferret
19th October 2010, 09:05 PM
I'd say plenty thick enough, the hole you are blocking is only about 25 mm in dia. to my mind you would need about 250psi to distort the plate over that area,
stainless is not as flexible as mild steel. some have even used brass. The plates I am using are 1.6mm, heaps.

justrocho
1st December 2010, 05:59 PM
just bought a grenade zd 30 patrol 190000 km cracks in 1 and 4 pistons starting from centre leading out start outer edge of combustion chamber this im told is extreme cooling from over fueling and have advised to have the fuel system overhauled anyone aggree

Chaz
1st December 2010, 07:44 PM
just bought a grenade zd 30 patrol 190000 km cracks in 1 and 4 pistons starting from centre leading out start outer edge of combustion chamber this im told is extreme cooling from over fueling and have advised to have the fuel system overhauled anyone aggreeOver fuelling will over heat the combustion chamber on a diesel not cool it like a petrol engine. Your cracked pistons are a result of extreme heat due to over fuelling. Also check the cylinder heads for cracks between the glow plug holes and exhaust valves because that's another area that we commonly find cracks. I suspect it's partly due to the long glow periods that the early ZD30 motors used. Overfuelling is often the result of a faulty or dirty MAF sensor. The MAF plays a large part in mixture control.
Cheers,

Bob
2nd December 2010, 11:17 AM
Excuse my ignorance but is there a egr valve on petrol motors (4.5l efi)

sweet_gq
3rd December 2010, 08:25 AM
is this a suitable mod for a TB42E, or only suited to the turbo diesel?


Cheers
B

Chaz
4th December 2010, 10:02 PM
EGR can't be good for any motor, petrols included. I guess it's been around for so long on petrols that we're use to it but only in recent years being used on diesels. It will shorten the life of any engine and fowl the oil much quicker.

the ferret
5th December 2010, 12:45 AM
just bought a grenade zd 30 patrol 190000 km cracks in 1 and 4 pistons starting from centre leading out start outer edge of combustion chamber this im told is extreme cooling from over fueling and have advised to have the fuel system overhauled anyone aggree

Sorry to say Mate, but that's what ZD 30's do, there are a heap of mods you can do to prolong the life of the motor tho, first block the EGR and fit some sort of catch can, that's a start!!

beemer
22nd December 2010, 11:41 PM
Looks like Ive got a little project to do on the weekend lol

wildgu6
29th December 2010, 03:18 PM
What is EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) and why should I block it?

Wiki link for in-depth explanation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation)

TLDR;
*EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders.
*EGR deletion results in an increase in fuel economy as high as 25%.

Some people have also noticed an increase in power and a quicker turbo spool. IF there are any power increases at all, they would have to be pretty minute. However, I can attest to a quicker turbo spool up by at least a few hundred revs.

How do I block the EGR Valve?

It's a pretty easy do-it-yourself job. Allow an hour or so to do the job, and make sure the motor is cool enough to work on comfortably.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/3.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/4.jpg

This is what the EGR blanking plate should look like..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/5.jpg


The easiest way to do this job is to loosen the 2 nuts as pictured in the 2nd picture. You don't need to take them all the way off, just loosen them enough to be able to pull the EGR Valve (big brass ufo looking thing) away from the manifold. All we are doing is sliding the plate in.

For the plate, you'll want some thin sheet metal.. I used stainless steel. I have read that tin is fine. Not too sure about alluminium.. I've read is may corrode but I'm not sure. You want to basically end up with a shape similar to what I quickly draw in the last picture. As you try to fit it, you will see where it needs to be refined to the correct shape. For this, I used Tin Snips and a round file.

Once you get a plate that fits, you slide it in between the Manifold and the EGR Valve, then tighten the 2 nuts back up. Simple as that.

Good luck!

Well I'll be a rooster on a rocket, first time I've ever read this thread and I must say Timbo, your post and explanation couldn't be any easier to understand.
Nice work buddy, Well done.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

Cheers Pete

tonejack0
2nd January 2011, 02:21 AM
Hi forgive my ignorance but what I can’t understand is how can re-circulating the hot exhaust gas cool the engine down? I have read several times that it does, one of the reasons that I blocked the EGR valve was because my number two piston melted at 56,000 miles and the EGR valve was stuck open.
I know I’m a newbie but any help would be appreciated as I don’t won’t to burn out another piston.

spacekadet
2nd January 2011, 07:04 PM
cheers timbo, just went out and blocked my EGR, template was a good start. This is my first engine mod i have done, and it works fine, so im stoked.

good luck to the rest.

Tim

YNOT
2nd January 2011, 09:37 PM
Welcome to the forum Spacekadet, drop by the intro thread when you get a moment and tell us a bit about yourself and your Patrol.

Tony

tonejack0
4th January 2011, 05:51 AM
Thanks Tony but still cant get my head around this.

tonejack0
4th January 2011, 05:54 AM
Hi all I’ve posted in the past that I melted my number 2 piston, ( 2001 3L Dti ) but it’s all back together now and I’ve just taken it for a short test run. I have cut the CAT out from the down pipe and blocked the EGR valve and fitted a boost gauge, but I understand from reading the posts there are more mods to do before it’s safe to use.
I’m not able to download the Aksness manual as I’ve only just joined and not posted 25 posts yet.
I don’t know how to adjust the boost.
Also can you tell me what it’s like to drive in limp mode, does it just go very slow? Does anyone do a pod to take the boost gauge and a volt meter?
It’s cost over £3000 so far and if it goes again I don’t know what I’d do, I feel it’s an untrustworthy engine now. It had only done 56,000 miles and I’ve not done anything to stop this happening again.
It’s really nice here in the UK today 3 degrees C and diesel just gone up to £1.30 L

Tony J

RustyNails
4th January 2011, 12:58 PM
Just blocked my EGR (thanks for the plate Ferret) but have yet to do the butterfly valve.
So thoughts so far are
- It does not seem to have any more power but it definately runs smoother and the turbo lag seems to be reduced
- Definate BIG reduction in the amount of smoke
- Seat of the pants fuel economy seems to have improved also (need to run it through a few tanks and check the figs to confirm though)

Only issues I had was I assumed that the plate would go in from the top but it wouldn't, so had to add it from the bottom. And wanted to add the plate between the gasket and manifold but couldn't as the gasket has a sleeve running inside the manifold that prevented the plate fitting.

Paul

the ferret
4th January 2011, 01:47 PM
Just blocked my EGR (thanks for the plate Ferret) but have yet to do the butterfly valve.
So thoughts so far are
- It does not seem to have any more power but it definately runs smoother and the turbo lag seems to be reduced
- Definate BIG reduction in the amount of smoke
- Seat of the pants fuel economy seems to have improved also (need to run it through a few tanks and check the figs to confirm though)

Only issues I had was I assumed that the plate would go in from the top but it wouldn't, so had to add it from the bottom. And wanted to add the plate between the gasket and manifold but couldn't as the gasket has a sleeve running inside the manifold that prevented the plate fitting.

Paul

Hi Paul, you should find that it spools up about 3 to 400 rpm quicker, quieter, and some say better fuel economy, I havn't seen any proof regarding better fuel economy.
If you remove the two nuts holding the EGR, and then spring the EGR away from the manifold by about 20mm, the plate will drop in with a bit of jiggling.
The plate is best placed between the EGR and the gasket, this way there is less risk of sucking dust into the manifold as it will be sealed by the gasket and plate.
If you add 2stroke to your fuel at 200 to 1, the motor will run even quieter and I have found a fuel saving using the twostroke.
The butterfly is easy to remove, while you have the intercooler off, give it a good wash out and dry as well as the 2 intercooler hoses.
I think you ought to have another go at it and get the gasket against the manifold as your plate is exactly the same as mine and it's been in and out about 6 times.
Cheers Rod.

YNOT
4th January 2011, 01:51 PM
Just on the 2 stroke oil, if I remember correctly from other threads I've seen on the subject, use mineral based oil not synthetic.

Tony

the ferret
4th January 2011, 02:29 PM
Castrol 2t active is the go I believe.

RustyNails
4th January 2011, 03:24 PM
Hi Paul, you should find that it spools up about 3 to 400 rpm quicker, quieter, and some say better fuel economy, I havn't seen any proof regarding better fuel economy.
If you remove the two nuts holding the EGR, and then spring the EGR away from the manifold by about 20mm, the plate will drop in with a bit of jiggling.
The plate is best placed between the EGR and the gasket, this way there is less risk of sucking dust into the manifold as it will be sealed by the gasket and plate.
If you add 2stroke to your fuel at 200 to 1, the motor will run even quieter and I have found a fuel saving using the twostroke.
The butterfly is easy to remove, while you have the intercooler off, give it a good wash out and dry as well as the 2 intercooler hoses.
I think you ought to have another go at it and get the gasket against the manifold as your plate is exactly the same as mine and it's been in and out about 6 times.
Cheers Rod.

Thanks Rod

Yeah have got it between the gasket and valve, the sleeve on the gasket stopped me from adding it between gasket and manifold.
Was reluctant to take the nuts off completely (and then drop something and never find it again) but no matter what I tried it wouldn't go in from the top, will try again when I do the butterfly.
BTW when I do the butterfly do I need to do anything to the vacumn hoses?

It has only been on a short while but I am not sure if the boost comes on any earlier (perhaps marginally) but it does come on smoother without the huge amount of lag I have had. Definately a lot less smoke (mine is a real bad smoker) with that aspect alone worth the $25. As I said I feel as though the fuel economy is better, just need to empty the tank a couple of times and check the figs. Did a run from Whitehills Bch to Preston Bch and the trip home from Mandurah-Perth with the camper on the back and the Kayaks on the roof and used stuff all fuel (less than a quarter) where the run home from Mandurah is usual worth a third of a tank on it's own.
Got to do the butterfly this week and will try the two stroke too.
Thanks

Paul

the ferret
4th January 2011, 03:49 PM
Yep, you have the plate the correct way if the gasket is at the inlet manifold.
With the vacuum hoses, I just put them all back, they won't do anything even if the ecu tells em to, as there will be no butterfly, the ecu will think its the boss, ha ha.

Sir Roofy
4th January 2011, 05:56 PM
hi guys do you think that 2stroke would work on the duel fuel 4.5 mainly for a bit of lube

roofy

the ferret
4th January 2011, 06:40 PM
Not too sure about that one Roofy, two stroke is mainly for helping to lube the diesel injector pump, it replaces some of the lube removed by the clever folk who make the fuel.
There are other upper cylinder lubricants that are available, My grandad always added 1/3 pint of engine oil to the tank on his old Ford Mercury, and it went for years.
I reckon Tony would know, he's a walking workshop manual, he he. I think he'll be along shortly.

YNOT
4th January 2011, 07:30 PM
To be honest I'm not sure either, I don't know any one who's tried it.
I don't think there would be much price difference between 2 stroke oil and proper upper cylinder lubricant, if that is the case then stick with the upper cylinder lube that's already proven.

Tony

Sir Roofy
5th January 2011, 07:37 AM
OK thanks for that,tony just one thing mate do you have a manual beside your computer,your knowlage is a credit to you

cheers roofy

YNOT
5th January 2011, 10:37 AM
Thanks Roofy,

While I'm at home I have a GQ (Petrol engine models) Gregories manual beside me, but I rarely open it.

Tony

RustyNails
9th January 2011, 09:57 PM
Managed to get the plate in from the top by removing the nuts and forcing the valve out, much nicer fit.
Removing the butterfly plate was easy as, took all of 5 mins.
Can't believe the amount of oil in the intercooler hoses.

Paul

the ferret
9th January 2011, 10:28 PM
That's the go, yeah you have to spring it out a bit, fits better that way altho there is no reason it can't go in upside down.
every one i've done has had very dirty inter cooler hoses, it's best if you wash them out and most important, clean out the intercooler as the gunk that builds up is just like having a blocked radiator. Good doogs mate.

fat paddy
17th January 2011, 04:33 PM
Hi all,
Very interesting read. I fitted the catch can some months ago to my 2003 GU 3.0 (series 3 or 4?) and took a look in there the other day, sure enough there was oil floating around in the bottom. Not much mind you as my patrol would have to be the laziest Patrol in Aust. I cleaned the air flow sensor at the time I fitted the can and that made a huge difference.
I just got home from a 2000Km round trip to Adelaide full loaded with the family and camping trailer. Sat on 5th gear 100Km/h and didn't see any black smoke. Averaged 6.7 Km/l or 16l/100Km.
My point is my Patrol does blow much smoke so am I a lucky bloke?

FP

YNOT
17th January 2011, 05:33 PM
Welcome to the forum FP.

When you get a chance drop by the introductions thread and tell us a bit about yourself and your Patrol.

Tony

philmar
1st February 2011, 04:29 PM
Sounds like a lot of positives, but are there any known negatives?????

YNOT
1st February 2011, 05:26 PM
Sounds like a lot of positives, but are there any known negatives?????

Only if you get caught with it blocked! I'm yet to hear of anyone who has been caught.

Tony

Chaz
1st February 2011, 06:13 PM
Sounds like a lot of positives, but are there any known negatives?????
Nothing too serous in the way of negatives.

The Di will boost a bit higher and needs to have boost adjusted so not to have limp mode on full throttle. The CRD has better control over boost, but does sense pressure on either side of the EGR valve and will give a fault light and code when it sees a pressure differential. The answer is to drill a very small hole in the blocking plate to equalize the pressure and restrict EGR flow, or fit a Scangauge-II to clear the fault code each time it comes on.

That's it apart from what Tony has mentioned. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

RustyNails
1st February 2011, 10:19 PM
Well I have had the shim in for a while now.
My experiences are

Fuel consumption is down slightly
Definately more power (especially noticeable when towing so assume this means more torque rather than power) and keeps pulling to well over 3000RPM (whereas before at 3000RPM it just used to cough and spit a cloud of black smoke)
Less turbo lag (due turbo spooling earlier) equating to a much smoother power delivery = much nicer to drive
Less black smoke (still have blue smoke though)

And all this from a simple mod and a $25 part
Now I just have to give the two stroke a go

philmar
5th February 2011, 07:01 AM
I am in the process of making the egr plate, but I am concerned about installing it without having boost control as a mention of overboosting can be a result of blocking the egr off. Is it safe without this control?
Also reference is made to CRD's and having to allow partial flow. Which models are CRD? Mine is GU111 2002. (what is crd?)
What and where is the butterfly plate? And what are the benefits of modding this, and what is the actual mod?
Reading through all these posts is great fellas, it's like going back to school again.
Thinking about that, school was a bitch, this is much better.

YNOT
5th February 2011, 07:27 AM
There is an adjustment on the turbo (the VNT - variable nozzle turbo actuator rod) the can be used to limit turbo boost but I have never done this so can't explain how to do it. Do you have a boost gauge? I would not be blocking the EGR until you have a boost gauge.

2002 GUIII has the DI (direct injection) motor. CRD (common rail diesel) did not come out till later.

The butterfly plate is in something like a throttle body that sits over the rocker cover and is bolted to the inlt manifold. I have not modified the butterfly plate on mine but I did remove it and clean it. Chaz will be more help here.

Tony

nowoolies
5th February 2011, 09:35 AM
Hi Guys, If I happen to punch out a bunch of EGR blocking plates that slide in as described in the post above, would anyone be interested?,
cheers The Ferret.

count me in mate how much $$$$$$
nowoolies
Paul

GUte
5th February 2011, 11:59 AM
Does anyone know if this is part of the egr on my td42ti?
Its below the intercooler going into the manifold, tried finding where the other end of the pipe came from but lose it behind the engine

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/In_Elysium/4x4/e45463b9.jpg

YNOT
5th February 2011, 12:31 PM
That is th EGR actuator. The other end of the pipe should go into the exhaust manifold.

Tony

thin on top
5th February 2011, 01:38 PM
Hey guys, Dam I wish had looked at this site before I bought my GU2.8Ti. I would have still bought but have learnt so much for reading here. You never know one day I may even be able to contribute.

YNOT
5th February 2011, 01:44 PM
Feel free to contribute at any time, even if it's just in general banter. When you get a minute drop by the introductions section and tell us a bit about yourself and your Patrol.

Tony

RustyNails
5th February 2011, 06:04 PM
Great pics here (post #41) patrol4x4.com/forum/diy-modifications-accessories-40/egr-blocking-plate-er-i-mean-shim-56393/index3.html

NOTE: DIRECT LINKS HAVE BEEN REMOVED DUE TO PATROL4X4's VIRUS PROBLEMS, ENTERING THE ABOVE LINK INTO YOUR BROWSER YOU DO AT YOUR OWN RISK

KIND REGARDS

FORUM MANAGEMENT

thin on top
6th February 2011, 06:13 PM
To windy to go fishing in Darwin today, so took the Mrs for a drive, only took 20 minutes to find a scrap bin with suitable steel to block off the ERG, an hour later thanks to the great drawing on here , valeve blocked off and butterfly removed.
Thanks for the information.
Yes the hoses were full of oil, that will be nextweekends job, clean the hoses and intercooler and hoses
cheers
Phil

szaf
13th February 2011, 10:45 PM
If the erg was blocked would a fault code be generated that a dealer notice

YNOT
13th February 2011, 11:11 PM
On CRD engines yes that is quite likely. On CRD motors it's best to drill a small hole in the blocking plate so it is a restrictor not a full blank off, that stops it from logging a fault code.

Tony

the ferret
13th February 2011, 11:32 PM
Does anyone know if this is part of the egr on my td42ti?
Its below the intercooler going into the manifold, tried finding where the other end of the pipe came from but lose it behind the engine

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/In_Elysium/4x4/e45463b9.jpg
Here ya go mate.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/block42-1.jpg

the ferret
13th February 2011, 11:36 PM
Sorry fo the delay Paul, and by the way, thankyou for your call today, much appreciated.
What model Nissan? cheers Rod.

Terry
18th February 2011, 06:32 PM
Have spent around $800 to find and fix the problem of why my 98 GU 2.8 (which I recently brought) smoked worse than a forgotten BBQ, turned out that all that needed to be done was plate off the EGR valve. I had mechanics tell me it was the injectors, a turbo mob told me there was no problems and it was just a smoky engine. I then let a mob called Diesel Care (in Toowoomba QLD) have a look and problem fixed :) . All other names have been omitted due to their stupidity, great thread wish I had of read it earlier.

the ferret
18th February 2011, 07:02 PM
Good to see that's all sorted Mate. Cheers.

the evil twin
19th February 2011, 08:50 PM
Blocked my EGR today with a "Ferret EGR Plate". Yes, Ferret, I know I bought it at the 4WD show but I been slack getting around to it.

Man, what a difference. I was gobsmacked. The EGT's are down by heaps and fuel economy has improved as well but I need a tankful to tell exactly how much but looks like at least 1.5 Litres per Hundred. Max Boost has climbed back to about 20 PSI because I had already wound down the Turbo a smidge to 16 PSI.

Might have to invest in a Dawes just for the sake of it. Not really interested in a Needle setup as I don't rrse around enough to be needing to vary spool up rates etc and Needle valves have a habit of getting out of adjustment. I did get the P0401 Code once so far but the Scangauge sorted that out.

the ferret
19th February 2011, 09:13 PM
That's good mate, took ya time eh?? you should notice that it spools up about three to four hundred revs earlier. Keep an eye on the boost tho, you may need to fit a manual boost control.
have you removed the butterfly and cleaned out the intercooler and it's hoses? this is very important as part of blocking the EGR. is yours a 3L, 2.8 or 4.2? Next thing is to run it on 200 to one two stroke, you will notice better fuel saving and a quieter motor, cheers Rod.

the evil twin
19th February 2011, 09:27 PM
That's good mate, took ya time eh?? you should notice that it spools up about three to four hundred revs earlier. Keep an eye on the boost tho, you may need to fit a manual boost control.
have you removed the butterfly and cleaned out the intercooler and it's hoses? this is very important as part of blocking the EGR. is yours a 3L, 2.8 or 4.2? Next thing is to run it on 200 to one two stroke, you will notice better fuel saving and a quieter motor, cheers Rod.

Hiya Cobber,

Spool up, Yes, def earlier but OK for what I do.

Boost, definitely, thought the VNT adjustment would take care of it but not quite good enough so Dawes Valve required I reckon

Mines a CRD... but it must be busted 'cause I get bugger all oil in the Cooler or Hoses, well, bugger all worth worrying about. MAF gets cleaned and tested every 20.000K's anyhow

Again being a CRD (not that you knew that when you posted) I don't think the 2T will make a lot of difference. Most of the other CRD Jockeys reckon its not noticeable prob 'cause the Fuel System is designed for lo Sulphur fuel. Would be nice tho, jeez a CRD engine is a noisy basket isn't it. Any of 'em not just the Nissan's

If the P0401 Code gets to be a PIA I might drill the plate but as we discussed at the show that partially defeats the purpose of the block in the first place

the ferret
19th February 2011, 09:37 PM
There have been a few put a 2.5 mm hole, but I think it defeats the purpose of blocking as you say, the main idea is to keep all of the crap out of the inlet manifold and hence the combustion chamber. I don't think 2 stroke would hurt the motor, but that's my opinion. cheers Rod.

patroltrav
19th February 2011, 10:39 PM
Gday guys just wondering if anyone has pictures of the EGR on a crd motor? Also does anyone know if the patrol has a boost reference for the scanguage to display? Do you need to do the dawes valve mod if you block the egr on the crd engine? I am hoping to improve my fuel efficiency to anything better than 17-18 L/100 klms.

Cheers

the ferret
19th February 2011, 10:50 PM
here ya go, you will need to research the technical info as I don't supply it , sorry.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/gu_zd30_crd_egr_gaskets.jpg

the evil twin
20th February 2011, 11:42 AM
Gday guys just wondering if anyone has pictures of the EGR on a crd motor? Also does anyone know if the patrol has a boost reference for the scanguage to display? Do you need to do the dawes valve mod if you block the egr on the crd engine? I am hoping to improve my fuel efficiency to anything better than 17-18 L/100 klms.

Cheers

Scangauge Boost - Yes, it does but it is MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure). You can put in local Atmospheric pressure to change MAP to Boost but I don't bother as you get used to it quickly.

Fuel Economy - Man that is pretty crappy fuel useage, but there are a few out there with those figures and no-one seems to know why. EGR block should save you maybe 2 LPH give or take

nowoolies
20th February 2011, 12:12 PM
Sorry fo the delay Paul, and by the way, thankyou for your call today, much appreciated.
What model Nissan? cheers Rod.

g`day Rod
hope alls a bit better now mate

ive got a late 2009 gu 4cyl, im just going through Nissan at the moment see what they come up with hahaha proberly wasting my time ,

anyroad . ill let you know shortly what they come up with then ill set the bus up with the plate and other fittings that im learning about ,strewth more than i thought blocking the valve, but the lads here certainly know their stuff ,
sooooo glad i found this site
i would like to get a light mount for the rear of the bus as well ,
i could come over and pick it up if thats ok
cheers Paul

the ferret
20th February 2011, 12:33 PM
Onya Paul, yeah these things do take a while to settle down. Yours is a CRD, I will need to make the plate for you, let me know when you want it.
I have some single light brackets here but if you're after a double, I will be building some this coming week. Pick up is ok anytime, just ring first, regards Rod.

nowoolies
20th February 2011, 01:49 PM
thanks Rod
i take a double please , when there ready let me know please and ill give you a call
cheers
Paul

lachiek
1st March 2011, 11:05 AM
Hi all, this is an awesome thread I am hoping will reduce the cloud of black smoke coming out of my GQ 2.8T.

I noticed the template diagram says something like final measurements and results may vary. Can someone please confirm if I make that template it will fit my GQ RD28TD?

Otherwise I might be begging you for a plate Ferret....

Cheers, Lachie

the evil twin
1st March 2011, 11:29 AM
For you ZD30 guys an gals esp the CRD's...

Hypothetically if one were to block the EGR which Nissan do not recommend and may cause warranty hassles... I have hypothetically found that the EGR plate will give you about 3 - 4 PSI more boost on no load cruise as per the Bibles floating around the 'net... and as the Ferret has mentioned the spool up is significantly quicker

You will need to adjust the VNT or fit a Dawes Valve... hypothetically of course (cough cough)

As it is the no load cruise hi boost condition that is most susceptible to "Kabooming" the ZD's if the MAF goes faulty I wouldn't block EGR without appropriate gauges/scangauge/ECU talk or equivalents so you can adjust the VNT or Dawes to limit boost and also keep an eye on things.

You will easily see in excess of 20 PSI Boost (34 to 36 MAP) otherwise and if a faulty MAF starts shoving fuel in at that boost pressure then it will get ugly again not my work but taken as described in the GU bible.

the ferret
1st March 2011, 11:33 AM
Hi all, this is an awesome thread I am hoping will reduce the cloud of black smoke coming out of my GQ 2.8T.

I noticed the template diagram says something like final measurements and results may vary. Can someone please confirm if I make that template it will fit my GQ RD28TD?

Otherwise I might be begging you for a plate Ferret....

Cheers, Lachie

Plenty here Mate, made to fit and stainless.

lachiek
1st March 2011, 12:17 PM
Thanks Ferret, I almost hit go on the purchase then decided to have a closer look at my EGR. Turns out it's already blocked! Obviously been there a long time as the shim is barely noticeable and covered in crap. Cleaned up it looks like good stainless so I reckon I'll stick with that.

Didn't mean to muck you around sorry mate.

the ferret
1st March 2011, 12:31 PM
No sweat mate, long as you're all sorted. cheers.

thin on top
21st March 2011, 09:34 PM
Ok guys I have my Pyrometer, how far after the turbo should this go.

cheers
Phil

Chaz
22nd March 2011, 05:59 AM
Ok guys I have my Pyrometer, how far after the turbo should this go.

cheers
Phil

As close to the turbine as possible will give you quicker readings, but up to 20cm should be ok.
Also, the tip of the pyro is the sensor, so just go in about 10 to 15mm for best results.

thin on top
22nd March 2011, 07:53 PM
cheers, thanks for that

the evil twin
22nd March 2011, 10:37 PM
Just got back from an 1100 K trip comprising 100 K city, 700 K towing the camper (50% of it quite hilly) 100 K's Country bitumen and 200 K's of tracks, dunes and beach (sof Beach at that as a lot of 2nd High used) drank 160 litres from local servo to local servo... so 14.8 LPH rough enough.

Absolutely stoked with those figures as it was cruising in lo 14's with the camper on tow. If anything I have tweaked the VNT a tad too far as it is noticeable on the beach that she is a poofteenth slow spooling up but good enough for me without a Dawes/Needle valve setup.

No hint of boost spikes or over boosting and she is pretty steady on 15 PSI Boost.

BundyDave
23rd March 2011, 08:48 PM
Have any of you guys that has blocked your egr checked your boost before and after (as mentioned in the Reference document). Can you just block it off without any adjustments.

the evil twin
24th March 2011, 02:09 AM
Yeah, what Tony said... mine went apeshit... did almost exactly what was in the Bible... spooled up waaaaay to quick and boost spikes of up to 25 PSI till I wound the VNT back.

I wouldn't even contemplate doing it without a boost gauge. If you have a ton of guts I spose you could do the EGR block and just wind off 1 and 1/4 turns on the VNT screw but they are as touchy as hell.

DrHarry
5th April 2011, 02:43 PM
Hi all my first post here...really enjoying all the quality info. I reckon I have a good handle on the EGR arguments now except for what to expect if you have a CRD. Some seem to say the ECU will sort out any excessive boost whilst others (including my local 4WD mechanic) say the effect on turbo boost is unpredictable.

Can anyone who has actually done the EGR mod on a CRD tell me their experience. I have a Scangauge so happy to clear any codes if that is the only hassle, and can keep an eye on my MAP/boost.

Thanks
Harry

the ferret
5th April 2011, 04:00 PM
Hi Harry and welcome, the guys n girls on here are pretty friendly and always ready to help, have a read below, might help you decide what to do.
Please note, this is not my work, only borrowed it for ya, cheers Rod.


Quote: "Ok, regarding the new CRD, I would recommend the purchase of a scan gauge as it can read the ECU and provide lots of valuable information such as boost, temperatures, current fuel usage etc.

I would also recommend the installation of an EGT gauge, once these are installed on the truck, you can get a feel for how the motor is performing and decide if it is working to spec based on that information.

To answer your direct question, the CRD does not require a dawes valve as the ECU limits the boost to around 15psi very effectively. The members that have installed them have probably bypassed the ECUs control of the turbo and blocked the EGR system like ............ has shown in this thread.

The CRDs ECU is far more advanced than our Di models which is good and bad, the good is that you can usually block the EGR and there is no need to alter the VNT grub screw because the ECU still controls the boost to around 15psi.

The bad is that it has enough smarts to know that the EGR is not flowing and it will throw up an error code (which the scan gauge can easily clear). If you did want to block the EGR and were not going to purchase a scan gauge, I would recommend that the EGR blocking plate have a 10mm hole in the middle to allow some flow so that the ECU does not throw up the fault code

hekarewe
5th April 2011, 04:13 PM
What is EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) and why should I block it?

Wiki link for in-depth explanation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation)

TLDR;
*EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders.
*EGR deletion results in an increase in fuel economy as high as 25%.

Some people have also noticed an increase in power and a quicker turbo spool. IF there are any power increases at all, they would have to be pretty minute. However, I can attest to a quicker turbo spool up by at least a few hundred revs.

How do I block the EGR Valve?

It's a pretty easy do-it-yourself job. Allow an hour or so to do the job, and make sure the motor is cool enough to work on comfortably.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/3.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/4.jpg

This is what the EGR blanking plate should look like..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/05/5.jpg


The easiest way to do this job is to loosen the 2 nuts as pictured in the 2nd picture. You don't need to take them all the way off, just loosen them enough to be able to pull the EGR Valve (big brass ufo looking thing) away from the manifold. All we are doing is sliding the plate in.

For the plate, you'll want some thin sheet metal.. I used stainless steel. I have read that tin is fine. Not too sure about alluminium.. I've read is may corrode but I'm not sure. You want to basically end up with a shape similar to what I quickly draw in the last picture. As you try to fit it, you will see where it needs to be refined to the correct shape. For this, I used Tin Snips and a round file.

Once you get a plate that fits, you slide it in between the Manifold and the EGR Valve, then tighten the 2 nuts back up. Simple as that.

Good luck!

being as handy as a set of t!ts on the bull wherre could i get the templets made up???? and do they need gaskets on eithere side

the ferret
5th April 2011, 04:19 PM
Give me a PM, I have heaps, cheers Rod.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/EGRSHIM.jpg

DrHarry
6th April 2011, 02:22 PM
Brilliant Mr Ferret, thanks for the CRD info! PM sent about shim.

Harry

timn
10th April 2011, 08:44 PM
My 3ltr had been blowing a huge amount of black smoke and getting really bad over the last 3 months. I was thinking it may have been an injector or a pump issue however i know with the Mit's Tritons they close up the EGR to clean the engine's of the soot build up so I gave this a go and its worked a treat, i have noticed a slight increase in power and the smoke has almost gone. Easy fix for an hours work!!!!

DrHarry
30th April 2011, 11:05 AM
Thanks to the shim from Ferret I have now blocked the EGR in my 2008 CRD GU. The boost has certainly changed on the turbo. Previously it would rarely hit 15, now it rarely hits 18...in other words it is generally sitting a bit higher under all conditions than previously but I think is still acceptable. Would anyone see a problem in this slight overall rise in boost?

I sense that the motor is more responsive off the mark with no flat spots as I go up through the gears. I guess that means the turbo lag is gone that was there before. Fuel economy as per the Scangauge is unchanged.

I have had the coded come up twice in 10 days since I did the block but readily removed with the Scangauge.

I haven't done anything about the butterfly valve mainly 'cos I am not sure how to get to it! Does it matter? Should I bother?

Harry

the evil twin
30th April 2011, 07:33 PM
What butterfly valve?

How are you measuring boost pressure ?... off the Scangauge MAP?

If you back off the Trubo boost pressure back to max 16 PSI you will gain about 1.5 to maybe 2 litres per hundred better fuel economy (higher boost = more fuel)

The reason the vehicle feels more responsive is that the spool up of the Turbo is now much quicker and the pressure is higher which may (I stress only may) give you problems with boost spikes. Up to you if you wish to crank back on teh VNT screw or fit a Dawes and Needle valve. I would do one or the other.

Warthog
1st May 2011, 08:19 AM
In areas like Africa with poor fuel, blanking the EGR also has the effect of stopping loads of cr*p building up around the valves and manifolds, not sure how much of a difference it makes in areas with better fuel quality, but from the first head rebuild I did on my 2.8 the buildup of gunge in there was phenomenal, after a thousand miles (and the second rebuild due to a cooking incident) there was no build up of anything... now it's just cooked again after another 1000 miles want to put a 4.2 in it, will hopefully do away with the EGR question!

diffhead
4th May 2011, 07:42 PM
what is egr and why is it used?.. simply its exhaust gasses re- entered to the combustion chamber. most people think its to use up the last of the oxygen left after combustion......... WRONG. there is next to no oxygen left. its all about emmisions. basically you are putting hot air mixed with clean air back into your engine which makes it run less efficiantly but lowers emmisions.. if you run an intercooler you should be pissed off and rightly so.. trucks run both egr and scr .. what is scr? its an injection of urea directly into the exhaust to do the same thing so instead of compromising hp all you have to do is inject urea. no matter what you do with the engine.. why do car owners put up with egr? dont have the option!

DrHarry
3rd June 2011, 01:45 PM
My updated after some more fiddling. I have the 2008 CRD with diesel gas fitted. I fitted a boost guage which noted normal levels up to 15max. I did the EGR block which saw occasional boost up to 17 but by and large the boost seems well controlled by the ECU as I was told to expect in a CRD.

I have just added a 2.5" mandrel exhaust and a pyro gauge and now I am seeing frequent over boost up to 19-20 under light load in 2nd or 3rd gear, on a slight incline. EGT 350-450.

Should I now just adjust the actuator a little? Will this level of boost be likely to do any harm to my engine?

cheers
Harry

the evil twin
3rd June 2011, 02:36 PM
My updated after some more fiddling. I have the 2008 CRD with diesel gas fitted. I fitted a boost guage which noted normal levels up to 15max. I did the EGR block which saw occasional boost up to 17 but by and large the boost seems well controlled by the ECU as I was told to expect in a CRD.

I have just added a 2.5" mandrel exhaust and a pyro gauge and now I am seeing frequent over boost up to 19-20 under light load in 2nd or 3rd gear, on a slight incline. EGT 350-450.

Should I now just adjust the actuator a little? Will this level of boost be likely to do any harm to my engine?

cheers
Harry

An extra 5 PSI of boost pressure (20 instead of 15) multiplied by the ZD30 Compression ratio of 17.9:1 means you are now banging off at significantly higher chamber pressures of maybe mid 600's instead of around 550.

Up to you, cobber but I was pretty sharpish in winding my VNT down. I did, however see higher spikes on mine (22) than you have recorded so far.

nallington
3rd June 2011, 06:55 PM
hi guys im new to this forum already learning, i have GU 4.2 turbo and heard that a CRD valve would help with power but didnt have a clue where it was is it possible does the 4.2 have similar valve and can the same be done on 4.2 we tow a 23 foot caravan and a little more power would be appreciated

Thanx

Neiul

the ferret
3rd June 2011, 07:07 PM
Hi nallington, If you mean EGR, then your truck will have one if is a 4.2 TDI. ( Exhaust Gas Recirculator)
Welcome to the forum mate

nallington
3rd June 2011, 07:12 PM
thanx ferret will be out first thing in the morning looking for it much appreciated

Neil

the ferret
3rd June 2011, 07:40 PM
thanx ferret will be out first thing in the morning looking for it much appreciated

Neil

Looks like this.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/42EGRblock.jpg

nallington
4th June 2011, 08:48 AM
Hi ferret regarding the EGR i have a 4.2turbo none intercooled there is a vacuum operated valve that looks like it operates a butterfly valve on the turbo but doubt if it is an EGR any further info would be appreciated

Neil

nallington
5th June 2011, 10:53 AM
Thanks for that tony i will check to make sure its working as it seemed quite stiff this may be causing a loss of power.

Neil

Gert B Frobe
5th June 2011, 09:48 PM
Just a question about the ECU's on the CRD engines.

If the ECU is so smart and limits the boost, why is it after fitting the shim does boost spike so much? I thought the whole idea of modern electonics was to make things simpler and more controlled......

My two cents

Timbo
5th June 2011, 11:21 PM
Just a question about the ECU's on the CRD engines.

If the ECU is so smart and limits the boost, why is it after fitting the shim does boost spike so much? I thought the whole idea of modern electonics was to make things simpler and more controlled......

My two cents

Ok, in my opinion, the factory ECU isn't designed to figure out why 2+2 is equaling 5.
There may be codes in there that equal 4 for a particular type of part.

The EGR might have a sum like, 2+2=4 and this is based on a calculated amount of air running through a sensor around that part. The part is designed in such a way that it will always read as 4. So then we go and block it off. The ECU now doesn't get an air reading form the sensor. 5 may be a code for "add more boost", and 3 might be a code for "engine no start".
So all of a sudden, the sensor returns the number 5 back to the ECU.. 2+2=5.. shit, "add more boost".. nope, can't do that. 2+2=3. I'm not starting this engine because something is wrong.

Sometimes this is how I look at problems with engines.. in a real lay-mans way.

I would imagine it's because the ECU's are programmed from the factory to monitor standard parts. When you go altering things, the ECU doesn't know this and would just be making normal calculations. Sometimes when a calculation doesn't add up or a particular set of numbers appear to be outside of a certain range, the ECU may try and correct this by adding more/less fuel, more/less air and I guess, more/less boost. This may appear as a spike in an electronically controlled boost engine. Other time the engine may just refuse to start due to the ECu not being able to run it's programming etc.

Probably not a correct answer but hey, it's maybe its along the right track.

CoR
2nd July 2011, 03:57 PM
Hi guys,

I know it's recommended to fit a EGR gauge (or Pyro) when blocking the EGR valve, but has anyone actually had any problems by blocking the valve with or without a gauge?
I mean in general has or is there any overheating for normal use of the vehicle etc (not going extreme 4wding)?
Or are we talking problems with boost and overtemp?

Just looks like a prick of a job to fit with the standed exhaust.

Thanks,

CoR

CoR
2nd July 2011, 05:29 PM
Blocking the EGR is more likely to have an adverse affect on boost.

Tony

ok thanks for the info Tony.

So the scangauge would be the way to go instead of the Pyro.

Thanks.

CoR
2nd July 2011, 05:47 PM
Thanks again Tony.

Will sort something out soon.

the ferret
2nd July 2011, 05:51 PM
I've noticed that on the 2.8, the turbo spools up about 300rpm earlier, so it should be about the same on the ZD 30 DI.

CoR
2nd July 2011, 06:30 PM
Hi Ferret, hows this cold weather we are having here in Mandurah? lol
Anyway that was a little off-topic.

I might just fit the old style (analogue) gauges, ie. Boost & Pyro. The only thing is trying to DIY!

Just read up on the exchange that Taipan XP does "3L Patrol Intercooler Elbow".

the ferret
2nd July 2011, 06:40 PM
Have a look on Ebay Adrian, you should find what you need , an egt and boost gauge is all you would need, you could wind the VNT back a bit till you get it sorted,
Tony's advice is good advice.
It's warm in the workshop by the way.
cheers Rod.

CoR
2nd July 2011, 09:04 PM
Thanks again for the info/help guys. Installed a Chip Express unit today which made a huge difference, but definitely need the gauges as said.

Gert B Frobe
18th July 2011, 05:56 PM
For all who are interested check out egauges.com

I know they are in the states but they have a full range of Auto Meter and VDO metric gauges to suit all applications. Even with the shipping its still cheaper than sourcing boost and pyros here and FedEx shipping gets them here in about 5 days.

To CoR I have the same chip and I cant be happier, just need to find time to fit the other mods.

Brenton Fleming
6th August 2011, 07:44 AM
I have been reading this information about ERG valves and Boost gauges. I started by getting a boost gauge and checking my boost prior to any mods being done. I have the ZD30 engine. I had cylinder head replaced 15000k's ago, cracked between cyl3-4. 155000 on the clock today.
I monitored the boost in city and country driving. I then installed the blanking plate for the EGR and this increased my boost by 4-5 PSI.
I then adjusted the boost back to 10 PSI at 2600RPM in 5th gear (as it was before) I have noticed there is an improvement in my power available. I have also installed a catch can to remove any oil carry over into the intercooler.
I have not installed a larger exhaust system, but I have installed a chip and went through the same process to ensure over boosting would not be a problem.

My reason for writing all this is because I would like to thank all the people that have worked on this and have put there thoughts to this in an effort to improve reliability of the trol. I work in the diesel engine/generator business and I am surprised a thing like the EGR can reduce the reliability on a diesel engine.

Again thanks all
Flembo

Scabad
9th August 2011, 07:01 PM
Guys

Interesting feedback, I thought I'd add some experiences. My 2010 CRD Patrol is fitted with the Taipan chip and 3 inch exhaust. I have a pyro and EGT gauge as well and found that with the chip the old girl would sing, right up until the time I was towing (at that time a 1.6T Jayco Camper) thats when the fun started with boost peaking to 25 psi and the ECU kicking me into limp home mode.... 1ST and 2ND GEAR ONLY ! I spoke to Taipan again and got a dawes value fitted and this limited my boost down to 17psi which doesn't activitate the limp home mode even now towing my 2.5T Jayco Expanda. My EGTs normally don't go above 550C however it has gone up to 680 odd when pulling 5.5t (truck and Van) up hills. From some of the feedback from Andrew at Berrima Diesel in the 4wd Custom letters that the 650C is not that unusal for the CRDs. In short if you dabble with the donk, put the gauages and valves on and save yourself some fun with the limp home functionality strikes.
Ferret I would be keen to see if you still have any EGR (with small hole) plates for sale.

Cheers

Scabad

the ferret
9th August 2011, 07:21 PM
Yep I can do the hole, but are you sure you want to do that?
Cheers Rod.

switchgearw66
29th September 2011, 01:17 PM
A big thanxs to Timbo for the template and dimensions, always a big help to have the game half won for you.

aaron
5th October 2011, 12:41 PM
hi i have a 1999 patrol 2.8 td have put a EGR block plate in dose it need a small hole ????? or not ?????

Chaz
5th October 2011, 12:59 PM
hi i have a 1999 patrol 2.8 td have put a EGR block plate in dose it need a small hole ????? or not ?????
No, no need to drill a hole for the RD28, just remove the butterfly valve pre-cooler.

aaron
5th October 2011, 01:06 PM
the butterfly valve pre-cooler.

where is that located how do i remove ???

the ferret
5th October 2011, 01:32 PM
Aaron, It's also a good idea to fit a boost gauge and pyro, so you can keep an eye on things mate.

Chaz
5th October 2011, 02:04 PM
the butterfly valve pre-cooler.

where is that located how do i remove ???

Sorry mate, I didn't explain it very well. The butterfly valve is fitted "pre-intercooler", or on to the inlet of the intercooler. The system works by closing the butterfly valve in an effort to reduce boost pressure to the inlet manifold when maximum EGR is needed. You'll see this setup on all conventional turbo diesels that use a waste gate turbo, and that also have EGR fitted to them.

aaron
6th October 2011, 01:16 PM
what temp & boost shuld it be running with the EGR blocked ? will it cors damage to my 2.8 ?

joeker
11th October 2011, 06:25 PM
Hiya Ferret.

I am a year late, but did you ever actually punch a few of these out and if so can I get one mailed to me?

Let me know how many beer vouchers you want!

Joe

the ferret
11th October 2011, 08:21 PM
Plenty of EGR plates Joe, PM sent mate, oh yeah, Cab sav's the go these days lol.
Cheers, the ferret.

albi
14th October 2011, 09:11 PM
hi mate i new here and this is my take on this subject
removing or blocking the EGR is not a performance mod !! it only works at cruise and it lowers the cumbustion chamber temp to reduce NOX "nitrides of oxygen" a very silent killer if it leaks into cab!!
the sooting is a by product we have to live with ,it is a polution control device and ""ILEAGAL" to remove or modify the same as removing a cat converter$10 grand fine if caught!!
so if you leave it there it already is a performance mod ! well kind off lol.
so in a nut shell , if i cut ur arm of ,you can live without it cant you ?? but if it wasnt ,it would be better !!

the ferret
14th October 2011, 09:48 PM
hi mate i new here and this is my take on this subject
removing or blocking the EGR is not a performance mod !! it only works at cruise and it lowers the cumbustion chamber temp to reduce NOX "nitrides of oxygen" a very silent killer if it leaks into cab!!
the sooting is a by product we have to live with ,it is a polution control device and ""ILEAGAL" to remove or modify the same as removing a cat converter$10 grand fine if caught!!
so if you leave it there it already is a performance mod ! well kind off lol.
so in a nut shell , if i cut ur arm of ,you can live without it cant you ?? but if it wasnt ,it would be better !!

I look at it this way, by fitting a catch can, you remove most of the oil vapour which adheres to the butterfly and the inlet manifold and the MAF, contaminated MAF sends a message to the ECU to send more fuel, so on the ZD30 you end up with a hole in No 3 piston.
Blocking the EGR prevents the soot and carbon from sticking to the oil vapour within the intake system, be it the inlet manifold, the intercooler or butterfly.
This is all a part of the "NADS' system and is a proven modification to the ZD 30 direct injection motor prior to 2007.
Cheers, the ferret.

the ferret
14th October 2011, 09:52 PM
My 2.8 has been blocked for 3 years now, no dramas. I also run 200 to 1 two stroke, no boost guage and no piro, all good 225.000 ks..

Chaz
15th October 2011, 01:07 PM
hi mate i new here and this is my take on this subject
removing or blocking the EGR is not a performance mod !! it only works at cruise and it lowers the cumbustion chamber temp to reduce NOX "nitrides of oxygen" a very silent killer if it leaks into cab!!
the sooting is a by product we have to live with ,it is a polution control device and ""ILEAGAL" to remove or modify the same as removing a cat converter$10 grand fine if caught!!
so if you leave it there it already is a performance mod ! well kind off lol.
so in a nut shell , if i cut ur arm of ,you can live without it cant you ?? but if it wasnt ,it would be better !!

While I agree that everything you have said is true, unfortunately it doesn’t all apply to a ZD30 diesel engine with respect to EGR. Unlike EGR in most petrol engines, a ZD30 meters EGR and while there is a relatively low percentage at cruise, it does increase under considerable load. However it’s disabled at very high load and full throttle.

While its primary function is to reduce peak combustion temperatures, that has very little to do with exhaust gas temperatures. Peak combustion temperatures equate to very little time in the combustion process, but it does have the affect of reducing NOx emissions. Unfortunately with a diesel the negative effects of EGR far outweigh the positives. Even many of the larger diesel manufacturers have started to move away from EGR as a means of reducing emissions and many of the greener members of the community are beginning to question the true value of EGR as a means of control when so many vehicles emit more pollutants as a result of poorly maintained EGR systems.

You clearly have never tested your theory because you wouldn’t say it’s not a performance mod if you had. We’ve seen a 87nm gain at the wheels of a ZD30 Patrol below 2000rpm with EGR disabled, which was more than we got from fitting the 3”exhaust with high flow cat.

Yes, it is illegal to disable, but perhaps a 10K fine is better than an engine replacement every 100K km. My personal take on the subject is that it’s common for EGR systems to fail. They typically jam from all the soot and corrosion that the valves are exposed to and anyone that has had one jam open will tell you of the rough running engine, excessive smoke, lack of power and poor fuel consumption that their emission control system provides, by law!

canuck
8th November 2011, 09:56 AM
I just did a quick search of the thread to see if any of this relates to the EGR on the TD4.2 in the Safari. No hits. So I am wondering if the template posted at the beginning will work or not on the Td4.2 with an EGR. My 91 5 spd has one. The wife's auto doesn't. Both are stock and NA.

the ferret
8th November 2011, 10:39 AM
Mate, post up a pic of your EGR and I'll have a better idea, but I'm pretty sure it would be the same.
Cheers, the ferret.

EDIT. If you measure the two stud centres, they should be at 56mm.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/block42.jpg

Mark S
8th November 2011, 12:37 PM
Hi guys, the butterfly valve that needs to be removed is on the inlet to the intercooler, closest to the firewall with the vacuum controller mounted on it??? Is that right??

Cheers.....Mark.

Sorry should have mentioned 2.8TD..

the ferret
8th November 2011, 01:37 PM
Yeah Mark, If you remove the intercooler and it's bracket (4 bolts) it's a lot easier to get to the butterfly.
Remove the 4 m8's on the butterfly housing and then there are two tiny screws holding the butterfly onto the spindle.
Take the screws out and the butterfly will come away.
Take care with the "0" ring.
And yes, it's on the inlet toward the firewall.
Dont forget to unplug the fan!!
Cheers, the ferret.

EDIT, OH YEAH!!! don't kneel or sit on the top radiator tank, as you WILL snap the overflow spiggot!!

Mark S
8th November 2011, 02:08 PM
Thanks Ferret, all done...simple job made hard if you dont remove the intercooler!!

Thanks again.

canuck
8th November 2011, 03:31 PM
Mate, post up a pic of your EGR and I'll have a better idea, but I'm pretty sure it would be the same.
Cheers, the ferret.

EDIT. If you measure the two stud centres, they should be at 56mm.


Thanks. I'll measure them up.

Here are two pics of the Safari set-up. The first is my 91 5 spd and the second is my wife's 92 auto. Yes, there is no EGR crap on the 92. Got a friend to check the FAST with the VINs and it never had one. Both are JDMs.

1991 Safari
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh33/canucksafari/DSCF4107.jpg?t=1305935091

1992 Safari
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh33/canucksafari/DSCF4103.jpg?t=1320728489

the ferret
8th November 2011, 04:11 PM
The template on page one is for the 2.8 mate. The 4.2 is a similar shape but the hole centres are 56mm for 4.2 and 45mm for the 2.8.
It may be best uf you use the original gasket as a template.
Make the plate using 1.6mm stainless.
I could send you the plate but the postage would be fairly high.
Cheers, the ferret.

canuck
9th November 2011, 05:11 AM
Thanks Ferret. That's great info.
Cheers, John

Stumpjumper
9th November 2011, 10:28 AM
EDIT, OH YEAH!!! don't kneel or sit on the top radiator tank, as you WILL snap the overflow spiggot!![/QUOTE]

I always wondered how come my overflow spiggot got that way, I know I didnt do it, an Im not game to bend it back!
I remember getting the local mechanic to do tappet clearance a while back, just putting 2 and 2 together.
Getting back to the EGR blanking thread
TB4.2 EFI GQ 1992 ti pet/lpg........... have I got an egr that could be blanked off? I am always looking for improvement, Marty

the ferret
9th November 2011, 11:11 AM
Dunno mate, have a look and see if you have an EGR valve hanging off the inlet manifold,
Cheers, the ferret.

Stumpjumper
9th November 2011, 12:47 PM
I had a quick look under the bonnet and around both manifolds, nothing there like what I would expect, did a internet search found someone who thought TB4.2E does have an EGR? but I shall keep lookin. I have blanked EGRs before on a pajero I had but that was plainly visible. I am going to keep lookin online see what I can find cheers

twinotter600
12th November 2011, 09:30 AM
On the Y60s TD42 and (T) you can just unplug it under the bonnet at the 3 solenoids.

Skull
15th November 2011, 02:30 AM
I had an 03 ZD30 and when I blocked it at 180000km's nuber three intake runner was reduced to about a five cent peice with black sludge (just like the photo's in the reference doc). I pulled the whole intake all the way to the head to get rid of it. It worked fine on the old ZD30 but what happens to EGT's on the New CRD. My new truck is not here yet so I can't fit my guages and do it. Has anyone with EGT/Boost guages done this mod??? What was the outcome??? How big of a hole did you require in the blank to prevent the EGR from throwing a code???

wiseacts
23rd November 2011, 01:53 AM
Hello everybody...

Well am kinda messing up alot with myZD30 now. EGR block went so easy after following up what was brought up in AKSNISS reference document, that i would like to thank and appreciate the good job done.

My problem comes after not obeying the recommendations of installing a boost gauge and taking readings before EGR blocking... however, i decided to drive as it is, but then ended up by having excessive feul consumption and engine loosing power. For some reason i decided to unblock the EGR again and have it back to its original state as it did already 200,000Km by now and the EGR block was done when it was approx. going 160,000Km.

Now i am not able to adjust back the VNT, car is losing power as well as it had a weeeeeew sound coming from the turbo but now it has disappeared. A Nissan mechanic advised that i have a problem with the injection pump "i don't know what he is speaking about" anyway i didn't feel comfortable with him neither convinced of what he told me so i decided to get your professional advice.

I Hope that i have not screwed up everything. what i am sure of is that the the turbo is still alive as when i remove the hose that is connecting to the VNT actuator there is some air suction and the VNT lever is moving.

It will be great if i get some help from you guy to DIY as where i am staying i cant find a descent mechanic to help me get sorted. Cheers..

Skull
23rd November 2011, 02:38 AM
Doubt the pump mate. I find most things that go wrong are something you touched (VNT screw). Try to set it back to original position firstly. Then see what ya got. Get the boost presure gauge. Even if ya have to borrow one for a couple of days. Your blind without it.

NZDaz
25th November 2011, 04:19 PM
Just blocked the EGR on my Terrano, a stainless steel paint scraper made the ultimate sacrifice and got made into a blanking plate.

I blocked it where the EGR pipe goes into the inlet manifold downstream of the EGR valve, really easy to get to on my truck.
Pipe was full of hard crusty black gunk too.

Cheers for all the information here.

Edit: Opps, she wont run or start now. I think it has more to do with me disconnecting the battery then blocking the EGR. Is there anything special you need to do when reconnecting the battery after a few hours disconnected?

NZDaz
25th November 2011, 05:01 PM
I have disconnected my battery again to try and reset the ECU and also give it a good charge. In the mean time I decided to have a wee look inside the inlet to see if the black crud was through it as well...

Looks like I will be pulling it right out to give it a good clean.
Are those two butterfly's the ones you recommend removing as well?

the ferret
25th November 2011, 09:44 PM
NZ Daz, You have more work to do, It's not just a matter of blocking the EGR, there are other important mods.
Boost guage, Pyro, etc etc.
It may pay you to do a search and read some of Tony's (Ynot) posts.
There is a lot of info on the subject.
Cheers, the ferret.

NZDaz
26th November 2011, 06:39 AM
NZ Daz, You have more work to do, It's not just a matter of blocking the EGR, there are other important mods.
Boost guage, Pyro, etc etc.
It may pay you to do a search and read some of Tony's (Ynot) posts.
There is a lot of info on the subject.
Cheers, the ferret.

Cheers mate, I am a believer that you can never know enough about this kinda thing.
I have the boost gauge installed and the pyro is mostly done just need to do the hard part and actually get it in the exhaust.
I have read a lot of Chaz and Tonys info.
Will be looking at dawes & needle valves shortly.

cliff
4th December 2011, 08:14 PM
OK, I may have missed it (a couple of cans has that effect)!!!

Is this mod OK to do to a TB42e???

sr06
17th December 2011, 12:20 PM
i'm with you cliff read through the hole thing and still not sure (maybe i'm just slow haha) not sure if it's recomended on a CRD and from what i've go you should get a boost and pyro guage or a scanguage is that sort of right and what else should i look into please

GQ33QLD
28th December 2011, 07:44 PM
Thanks all, makes sense will give it a go to moro.

Dr Gary
24th January 2012, 02:48 PM
Do you have any details on how much the economy actually improves--25% seems a LOT. Is something like that your experience?
BTW looks like you are talking about a 4.2. Anything on 3.0??

madchris
28th January 2012, 02:17 PM
maybe a stupid question but wood this work whit an 89 mod gq diesel??? and if so do i doit the same as above ??

the ferret
28th January 2012, 02:52 PM
If you have a 2.8 or 4.2 with EGR valve, yes you can block it.
Some 2.8s don't have EGR (GQ)
Cheers, the ferret.

TimE
28th January 2012, 03:24 PM
This is what I did on my GU IV 4.2 tdi

First thing was to to make sure I could easily undo all the bolts that needed undoing, I ran a spanner over each to loosen them about 1/2 a turn, luckily they all loosened up OK without any skin off knuckles!

Next I undid the hoses to the intercooler

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/1.jpg

and removed the vacuum hoses connected to the intercooler, making a note of which hose went where

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/2.jpg

I then removed the 4 bolts that hold the Intercooler to its frame

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/3.jpg

With the Intercooler removed I could now get at the bolts that needed to be loosened to install the shim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/4.jpg

After loosening these bolts a light tap and pry with the screwdriver and I had enough space to put in the shim

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/5.jpg

You can see it here partially in place. I coated the outer edges of the shim with a bit of high temp gasket goo.

The butterfly on the Intercooler was removed by undoing these two screws

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/6.jpg

You need to slacken off the adjuster screw to get enough space to get the screw driver in to the butterfly

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/timber93au/7.jpg

Bolted it all back together and all seems well. Took me about 30 minutes all up.

I can now go and compete in my offroad comps on private land. Removing the shim would be a reversal of the above process, of course I will do this before driving on public roads.

the ferret
28th January 2012, 03:59 PM
Love it, well done mate.
Cheers, the ferret.

DrHarry
29th January 2012, 05:41 PM
That all looks much easier to get at than on the 3.0L CRD!

I don't recall seeing a butterfly valve on the intercooler on the 3L. Is there one, and should I have removed it?

Also, I have changed the ASE boost control valve that I had fitted; for a Dawes valve because the adjustments on the ASE one were too unpredictable. However I have os wound right in now and my boost is sitting around 13-14 max, and I am still getting EGTs over 600 when I tow up hills or into headwind at >100km/h. What's my next step to get a little more boost and hopefully lower my EGT a bit? Will an after market intercooler help here?

Harry

jaseb13
31st January 2012, 11:28 PM
this is a great read , thanks to everyones input..seems ive got a busy weekend coming up..

Robo
2nd February 2012, 11:17 AM
To be honest I'm not sure either, I don't know any one who's tried it.
I don't think there would be much price difference between 2 stroke oil and proper upper cylinder lubricant, if that is the case then stick with the upper cylinder lube that's already proven.

Tony
Use upper cyl lube buddy.
I've used just about all of em over the years and swear by Morreys for this.
Don't ever use the fuel doctor, my 97 lancer dropped fuel acconmy by at least 20% every time I tried it, 3 tanks and in the bin with that.
One even cause engine ping big time and Morreys cured that the next tank, so when on a good thing.
Sorry can't remember name of ping one but it was on the shelf last time I looked in s/cheap as a kit-drip bottle and oil, fuel saver maybe!
Tried Penrite one also, seamed ok but doesn't have cleaning additives in it, I rang penrite tech to confirm this.
Its alot cheaper than Morreys but I personally like having cleaner fuel system so recon it's worth the extra $.
Actually had in-depth conversation with Penrite tech and told him I'd buy their product over Morreys if it cleaned also, as I swear buy their engine oil. My old MQ L2.8 ran for years on Penrite with stuffed rings, but just kept on going and was the only oil that slowed oil consumption. and I use it in my Gtr and when I reco Gtr engine the mechanic commented to me how good the bearings were and He agreed Penrite oil was the reason.
Any way, not to mention time saved on maintance.
The junk fuel we have to put up with was regularly fowling injectors on Lancer and my Gtr, causing alot of work.
I can now go along time before I worry about dirty injectors etc.
Now I think about it, a little less valve train noise also.
If you decide to use 2St oil I'd use outboard oil as it's far superior to the others, it's engineered better and larger outboard motors are very expensive to repair/replace, not to mention human life.
Hope this helps

matus368
28th February 2012, 08:22 AM
wery cool thread i will try it as soon as possible

BearGUST
7th March 2012, 08:00 PM
I have disconnected my battery again to try and reset the ECU and also give it a good charge. In the mean time I decided to have a wee look inside the inlet to see if the black crud was through it as well...

Looks like I will be pulling it right out to give it a good clean.
Are those two butterfly's the ones you recommend removing as well?

I'm going through this process at the moment-fitting boost & EGT gauges, EGR blank, Dawes valve, manual boost tap.

As per the question above, what is the go with these butterflies on the ZD30? There seems to be conflicting info on whether to remove them... I assume the smaller on closes off as the EGR is opened, what does the larger one do? Do both get removed?

Chaz
8th March 2012, 08:06 AM
I'm going through this process at the moment-fitting boost & EGT gauges, EGR blank, Dawes valve, manual boost tap.

As per the question above, what is the go with these butterflies on the ZD30? There seems to be conflicting info on whether to remove them... I assume the smaller on closes off as the EGR is opened, what does the larger one do? Do both get removed?

BearGUST,

You don’t need to remove those butterfly valves on a ZD30 Patrol. You do on a 4.2 and 2.8 with EGR, but not a ZD30 because it has a variable turbo.

The smaller one is the swirl control valve which opens above 1250rpm to include the other 4 intake ports and the larger valve closes when you shut the engine down to reduce vibration on shutdown.

BearGUST
8th March 2012, 10:11 AM
So normally the ECU changes boost level to offset the EGR levels in the chamber?

Chaz
8th March 2012, 11:33 AM
So normally the ECU changes boost level to offset the EGR levels in the chamber?

Yes. The ECU controls the vacuum solenoid which in turn controls the variable turbo to give optimum boost levels to allow EGR to flow. A conventional turbo can’t be controlled electrically, so the only way the ECU has control, is to close a butterfly valve to reduce boost and allow EGR to flow.

Under normal conditions the ECU can reduce the VNT to increase boost which will increase backpressure between the engine and turbo and push more exhaust gas into the EGR valve, but for maximum EGR flow the ECU needs to reduce boost to allow more EGR into the inlet manifold. When this happens, the exhaust temperatures skyrocket because you’re going to be under load with large amounts of EGR and less cool oxygen entering the intake system.

This is why bypassing the ECU boost control solenoid and blocking the EGR improves performance and reduces EGT’s so much.

BearGUST
8th March 2012, 08:40 PM
Thanks Chaz, I just wanted to make sure how It all works before I do the mods.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?3jgo4x

myzathreeby
29th March 2012, 08:09 PM
Set aside a couple of hours to try and block off the EGR.
Took off all the peripheral bits first and located the flange.
I don't know if anyone else has encountered this, but there is a moulded metal heat shield/shroud fitted over the EGR flange on the GUIII 3.0 litre turbo
There are 4 bolts holding it place. but the bloody thing is totally jambed in between the flange and the manifold, it will need a lot more stripping down to get it out. I couldn't even get a grinder in to cut a piece out. The shroud is preventing access to the flange nuts.
So ended putting it all back.
Definitely will have another go, but will need more time.
I noticed when I took off the rubber tubes to the turbo, the insides were black and oily. Not really a good thing when it is meant to be a fresh air intake.

the ferret
29th March 2012, 08:45 PM
Mate, What motor you got?? I may be able to help you with some pics, doesn't sound right to me.
Cheers, the ferret.

Chaz
30th March 2012, 12:59 AM
Set aside a couple of hours to try and block off the EGR.
Took off all the peripheral bits first and located the flange.
I don't know if anyone else has encountered this, but there is a moulded metal heat shield/shroud fitted over the EGR flange on the GUIII 3.0 litre turbo
There are 4 bolts holding it place. but the bloody thing is totally jambed in between the flange and the manifold, it will need a lot more stripping down to get it out. I couldn't even get a grinder in to cut a piece out. The shroud is preventing access to the flange nuts.
So ended putting it all back.
Definitely will have another go, but will need more time.
I noticed when I took off the rubber tubes to the turbo, the insides were black and oily. Not really a good thing when it is meant to be a fresh air intake.

You’re trying to do it at the exhaust manifold! Way Too Hard….
Try blocking it at the top of the EGR pipe that goes to the inlet manifold…. Much easier and a 5 minute job.

Oily intake tubes…………. That’s why we fit a crankcase filter or Provent. All turbo diesels have oil in the intake – normal but not good. Remove the throttle body and see what a mess you’ll have in that!

myzathreeby
31st March 2012, 09:42 AM
Hi ferret, It's ZD30Di GUIII Auto
thanks fellas, I will have another go

the ferret
31st March 2012, 10:32 AM
Hi ferret, It's ZD30Di GUIII Auto
thanks fellas, I will have another go

Here ya go mate.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/egrblockzd302-1.png

got the bug
31st March 2012, 02:26 PM
Hi fellas, just thought I would add to this thread. I just put my EGR block plate in yesterday mine is an 08 crd ute & the difference was amazing, I have a scangauge & my EGTs dropped by 180 deg C from around 550c cruising to now being 380c or thereabouts which is huge.....The turbo spools up much quicker, the ute drives much easier as in does not seem to work near as hard now. The fuel has come down from 16l per hundred to 11l although I still need to go for a good long run in order to determine the real drop but for a 20km run to town that was the difference, and that has been a daily run for 3 years always getting 16l per hundred on the scangauge now shows 11 so must be something in it.
My only issue is the boost has gone from 14psi max to 19psi max however the max pressure now appears not be under load it maxes out now when just cruising at 100kph or so, a bit weird beacause if you accelerate from 100 when it has high boost the boost drops back instantly to about 12psi then when you back off to cruise again the boost comes back up to 17 or 19psi, any ideas why this happens & what I need to do to rectify it would be a great help.
The ferret told me to put in a bleed valve to bring down the boost to 14psi but I would like to hear of other people that have had this issue & how they dealt with it or if 19psi boost is ok to run with, I am no mechanic & dont know the tech stuff.
By the way if anyone needs an EGR block plate I can highly reccomend the ferret great service & good quality gear, plate is stainless steel & 30 bucks delivered why both making one for that.......

GTB

myzathreeby
1st April 2012, 05:35 PM
Here ya go mate.




Thanks for the diagram ferret, Looking at some of the other pictures on the thread, I was totally on the wrong side.
the whole thing makes sense now.
as you said, it looks like an easy job....next weekend now.

Must say I am really enjoying this car. The more things you do on it, the better.I like to get to know all the ins and outs and quirks. makes you more confident when preparing for a trip

Cheers Mate.

Stropp
1st April 2012, 08:20 PM
Hi guys bought the ferret egr plate and the young bloke installed it yesterday, made a fair bit of difference especially in second gear, pulls really well and very happy with it, just need to clean the maf sensor to complete the first stage of setup. We now have the 3" dump and exhaust and the egr blocked and it certainly made a difference to the troll, thanks again Rod for the plate and instructions.

the ferret
1st April 2012, 08:31 PM
Hi guys bought the ferret egr plate and the young bloke installed it yesterday, made a fair bit of difference especially in second gear, pulls really well and very happy with it, just need to clean the maf sensor to complete the first stage of setup. We now have the 3" dump and exhaust and the egr blocked and it certainly made a difference to the troll, thanks again Rod for the plate and instructions.

All good mate, glad to help.
Just heep an eye on the EGT's and max boost.
Cheers, the ferret.

oilburner98
6th April 2012, 02:29 PM
do any of you fellas know anyone that has done this and noticed the cleaner oil? I do what I can to try to extend the life of my 2.8 (drop oil/filters 5k), and not flog it too hard.
The blanking plate looks to be a good idea if it keeps the recirc soot out of the engine.

oilburner98
6th April 2012, 03:28 PM
um, sorry for a silly question, but how is the exhaust crud getting into the oil in the 1st place?

the ferret
6th April 2012, 05:27 PM
um, sorry for a silly question, but how is the exhaust crud getting into the oil in the 1st place?
By Bypassing the piston rings!
Cheers, the ferret.

oilburner98
6th April 2012, 06:20 PM
yeah, I get that part, so it looks to be a cheap fix/life extender for a tired engine. there was a couple of blokes with new-ish trucks looking at the bypass option,

why bother with a healthy engine? if, no real change in power/fuel consumption?

mate, I'm not a mechanic but I like my patrol just like any other bloke on this forum and I want my old 2.8 to keep kicking for a while longer so I will probs do this bypass option, but for a newish healthy truck I probs wouldn't bother

oilburner98
6th April 2012, 06:22 PM
yeah, I get that part, so it looks to be a cheap fix/life extender for a tired engine. there was a couple of blokes with new-ish trucks looking at the bypass option,

why bother with a healthy engine? if, no real change in power/fuel consumption?

mate, I'm not a mechanic but I like my patrol just like any other bloke on this forum and I want my old 2.8 to keep kicking for a while longer so I will probs do this bypass option, but for a newish healthy truck I probs wouldn't bother

I do appreciate your feed back

the ferret
6th April 2012, 07:59 PM
yeah, I get that part, so it looks to be a cheap fix/life extender for a tired engine. there was a couple of blokes with new-ish trucks looking at the bypass option,

why bother with a healthy engine? if, no real change in power/fuel consumption?

mate, I'm not a mechanic but I like my patrol just like any other bloke on this forum and I want my old 2.8 to keep kicking for a while longer so I will probs do this bypass option, but for a newish healthy truck I probs wouldn't bother

Mate, to be honest, If I bought a brand new nissan, the egr would be blocked before I took it out of the driveway, have you ever had a look inside the inlet manifold when EGR has not been blocked??
Well have a gander at the below pic>

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/7-1-1.jpg
Cheers, the ferret.

the ferret
6th April 2012, 08:33 PM
Back in the old days, we would "port and pollish'' the inlet and exhaust manifolds, this was very painstaking and took hours to do.

It involved sanding and pollishing and buffing to get the smoothest finish.
Even the crankshaft would be removed and all of the sand casting marks would be pollished off, leaving a mirror like surface.
This was to reduce any friction between the sump oil and the crank.
for example, we had a Ford 10, 4 cylinder side valve motor pulling 7000 rpm.
So, an inlet manifold packed with 5mm of carbon/oil/ soot etc, is only going to cause over heating, and when the MAF get's the message after being coated with oily mist and dust, and then relaying the info to the ECU, you will end up over fueling and a hole in the piston due to high temps
The people who invented the EGR don't give a rats about how long your engine will last, all they care about is the environment.
So I block the EGR and grow ROSES!! not.
Cheers, the ferret.

oilburner98
6th April 2012, 10:52 PM
yep, got it. cheers Ferret.

BlackOIL
7th April 2012, 12:30 AM
by the sounds of this.... i need to block this up right away

Malgreen
7th April 2012, 12:55 AM
ok guys this has been a great thread but let me get this right....
i have a CRD 3lt 08 gu...
1. get egt and boost gauges installed. ( would love some ideas on where to put said gauges )
2. mount egr plate. ( will be getting plate from ferret.)
3. Dawes valve to adjust boost.
4. get scan gauge to get rid of error code and to help monitor engine.

sounds easy.. ( time for piggy bank to meet hammer....)

oilburner98
7th April 2012, 07:22 PM
am thinking also about a boost and egt gauge, have you seen the gauge mounting panels that replace the pillar trim on the drivers side, they are on ebay?

oilburner98
7th April 2012, 07:24 PM
I'm going to pull the cover off mine next week to have a look, pretty sure it will look similar.

brucemacca
9th April 2012, 07:56 PM
I have bought one that has a colour match option. Try this link for the ' K ' trim.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pillar-Pod-2-Gauge-suit-NISSAN-GU-Patrol-brand-new-K-DEEPEST-MARKET-/280859389184?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4164862d00
Make sure you ask to have the holes cut out.
There are also a raft of boost and EGT kits out there on EBay.
These are similar to the ones I bought.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PYRO-EGT-EXHAUST-GAS-TEMPERATURE-TURBO-BOOST-GAUGE-/110778744167?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19caed7d67

got the bug
10th April 2012, 01:50 PM
Hi fellas, just thought I would add to this thread. I just put my EGR block plate in yesterday mine is an 08 crd ute & the difference was amazing, I have a scangauge & my EGTs dropped by 180 deg C from around 550c cruising to now being 380c or thereabouts which is huge.....The turbo spools up much quicker, the ute drives much easier as in does not seem to work near as hard now. The fuel has come down from 16l per hundred to 11l although I still need to go for a good long run in order to determine the real drop but for a 20km run to town that was the difference, and that has been a daily run for 3 years always getting 16l per hundred on the scangauge now shows 11 so must be something in it.
My only issue is the boost has gone from 14psi max to 19psi max however the max pressure now appears not be under load it maxes out now when just cruising at 100kph or so, a bit weird beacause if you accelerate from 100 when it has high boost the boost drops back instantly to about 12psi then when you back off to cruise again the boost comes back up to 17 or 19psi, any ideas why this happens & what I need to do to rectify it would be a great help.
The ferret told me to put in a bleed valve to bring down the boost to 14psi but I would like to hear of other people that have had this issue & how they dealt with it or if 19psi boost is ok to run with, I am no mechanic & dont know the tech stuff.
By the way if anyone needs an EGR block plate I can highly reccomend the ferret great service & good quality gear, plate is stainless steel & 30 bucks delivered why both making one for that.......

GTB

Hey all, just thought I would follow up on this post & keep anyone who may be interested up to date, on refferal from the ferrett I checked another forum for further info on my overboost issue & from there decided to try the VNT adjust method, well I can highly recommend it as with a half turn of the VNT screw in a clockwise direction the boost after a drive does not randomly fluctuate any more & when giving it a bootfull boosts to 14 psi max now not wildley up to 21psi as before & on cruise ay 110kph again it does not go over about 12 or 14psi where before it could go to 21psi in bursts. Who would have thought given such a small adjustment it could make such a difference. The job was a bit fidley but took all of 20 minutes to do so I felt was much easier than fitting a bleed valve but that is only my opinion & each to thier own. If anyone is interested to know how to do the VNT adjustment here is a thread I used from another forum hope the boys dont mind me using it....patrol4x4.com/forum/members/geeyoutoo-46168/albums/adjusting-vnt-grub-screw-843

Cheers,
GTB

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yorgalas
14th April 2012, 01:09 PM
can anybody tell me why by blocking off the egr the boost will raise by the ecu?
cheers :D

yorgalas
14th April 2012, 01:45 PM
Any negative side affects to blocking the egr? i have read over boosting is a problem intermittently and i am looking into getting a gu patrol. thankfully i have researched this engine and now know what to look for!

Chaz
14th April 2012, 05:34 PM
When you block the EGR, the boost isn’t raised by the ECU, but it increases because the intake air pressure can’t escape out through the exhaust any longer and all the exhaust gasses are being used to drive the turbo charger rather than some of them being re-directed back into the induction system.
So, in short after blocking the EGR, the turbo drives a bit harder/faster, which will increase boost similar to fitting a larger exhaust allowing the turbo to spin up faster due to less exhaust restriction.

Overboosting is the only negative side effect, but is easily overcome by adjusting the turbo or fitting a manual boost controller.

PHT33
16th April 2012, 07:44 PM
Woohoo, just looked at the egr solenoid on the plenum and can see what looks like one of those blocking plates poking out, stoked! Thanks for the write up.

the ferret
16th April 2012, 07:48 PM
Woohoo, just looked at the egr solenoid on the plenum and can see what looks like one of those blocking plates poking out, stoked! Thanks for the write up.

You need to loosen the two bolts to the manifold and just check that it is blocked, there is a plate that looks like a blocking plate, but it's not!!
Cheers, the ferret.

PHT33
16th April 2012, 08:19 PM
Oh, ok. Will have a closer inspection then. Thanks ferret.

cambo
4th May 2012, 07:38 PM
Has anyone had overboost issues after blocking a CRD.?

the godfather
4th May 2012, 08:44 PM
Has anyone had overboost issues after blocking a CRD.?

Now this is a good question....has anyone????

cliff
18th May 2012, 09:02 PM
Howdy gurus!

Still wanting to know if this is a viable mod for a TB42e or not??

mudski
19th May 2012, 01:26 PM
I've just about got everything needed to complete the NADS. I'm only waiting on the dawes...Can I do the lot including the EGR plate all together? EGR and boost gauge included. As it would be easier because half the car is in bits. Or should I do the dawes and needle first, run the car , then EGR etc etc.

the ferret
19th May 2012, 01:31 PM
Do the lot at once mate, then you can tweak the Dawse valve.
Cheers, the ferret.

Dingo55
11th June 2012, 11:38 PM
Fitted the Ferret blank today. Thanks to Ferret, Chaz & others for their exceptionally useful advice & experience - so much easier when others have done the pathfinding before you. Thanks guys.

The 4.2 runs so much better, less restricted in acceleration, turbo spools up about 400rpm sooner, no big boost issues. IC & hoses were oily, but not as much as I'd expected for an '06 4.2 with 117K km.

cheers,

Rip'n'Shred
18th June 2012, 09:33 AM
What did you use to clean the intercooler out. I'm just about to do my 4.2

brucewaller
22nd June 2012, 01:15 PM
Finally got around to making a blank from some old stainless around the house, (from my fish-cleaning bench top, may as well get some use out of it!). The original diagram and measurements were fine for my 2.8TD and the difference in acceleration and spool up is noticeable. Thanks for the info folks, the thread has been very informative, if it happens to give better fuel consumption then that will be a nice bonus.

Bruce

ns3474
28th July 2012, 02:51 PM
Here ya go mate.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt164/ferret/egrblockzd302-1.png

Ferret your a legend for posting the picture of the zd30 ,I have been considering blocking the Egr for a while but was getting lost and couldnt find it. Thanks Neil

threedogs
28th July 2012, 03:06 PM
I'm un blocking my EGR tomorrow as I can't controll boost via the dawes, That Chaz has drawing for that set up, just getting too much boost so it over boosts big time. Getting fed up with piece of s%^T nissan

snewin
4th August 2012, 11:33 AM
Just checking before I launch into this....

I don't have an intercooler so that means that there is no butterfly valves to take out.

All I need to do is to install the EGT plate.

the ferret
4th August 2012, 12:17 PM
Yep, if it's a 4.2, just block it.
It's a good idea to fit boost gauge, pyro and a catch can.
Cheers, the ferret.

OhBugger
14th August 2012, 02:33 AM
I've just gotten to driving my new '99 patrol GR, and i'm planning on blocking the EGR, reading this thread, i've decided the pro's far outway the con's
Are there any specific tips for my model?
I've printed the openingpost and a plate will be made for my EGR, but do i have to change anything else after blocking the EGR? I've read some things about the butterfly valve?

Thanks in advance

Big Red
17th August 2012, 08:52 PM
neither of my 4.2 GU's have an EGR [1999 and 2000 utes]

My father has a 2006 4.2 TD intercooled, if we fit the blanking plate and remove the butterfly is there anything else to do in the way of adjustments ?

the ferret
17th August 2012, 09:13 PM
Generaly speaking, that's all you need to do to the 2.8 and the 4.2. (Block the EGR)
It is a good idea to fit a boost guage, that way you can monitor the boost and make changes if required
Cheers, the ferret..

OhBugger
18th August 2012, 12:44 AM
Thanks Ferret, do i have to remove the butterfly valve aswell?

And i think there will be a problem finding a boost valve on this island

the ferret
18th August 2012, 09:36 AM
Thanks Ferret, do i have to remove the butterfly valve aswell?

And i think there will be a problem finding a boost valve on this island

Only the butterfly itself, not the whole valve!!
Cheers, the ferret.

OhBugger
19th August 2012, 06:11 AM
Thnx, i'll try it. The plate is allready being made.
First priority however is fixing my brakes...

P4trol
19th August 2012, 08:31 PM
Do you also need to remove the vacuum line on the egr valve? (to stop it opening)?

I have noticed spots of exhaust soot on the intake runners. The blocking plate is fitted, with dawes valve.

Seems to happen at higher revs. Could the egr valve be leaking?

the ferret
19th August 2012, 09:01 PM
Once you have blocked the EGR, nothing can enter the inlet via the EGR.
Just leave all the vacuum hoses as original..

If you have a leak from the EGR, then you need a new gasket, altho the flow through effect is reduced by blocking the EGR.
If the EGR is broken and jammed open or closed, it won't affect the function of the EGR block, once it's blocked, it's blocked.
Cheers, the ferret.

P4trol
19th August 2012, 09:11 PM
Cheers!



Tipsy-tap

kond
20th August 2012, 07:32 PM
Think I will order a blocking plate after reading this cheers guys

OhBugger
2nd September 2012, 12:42 AM
What does the butterfly do by the way? And why can you remove it without trouble when the EGR is blocked?

Chomp
2nd September 2012, 02:42 PM
Hi guys , I have a 04 zd30 and wanting to fit scangauge and Dawes valve while blocking my EGR where can I buy these???? Cheers

threedogs
2nd September 2012, 06:17 PM
Don't think the scanguage works on the Di Z30 only the later CR.
Check in archives via search engine top rhs.
I've just purchased a OBD2 bluetooth diagnostic thingy
Will be posting if works or not.

P4trol
3rd September 2012, 09:45 AM
What does the butterfly do by the way? And why can you remove it without trouble when the EGR is blocked?

I'm sure someone has a simple diagram of the egr system somewhere. I don't, so bear with me.

The idea of the egr is feed some of the exhaust back into the intake of the engine (normally clean air). In doing so it skips the intercooler (why?! Wouldn't it need a bit of cooling?) and goes straight into the engine. The butterfly valve blocks off the air from the intercooler, so the exhaust has preference to the good turbo air, in a way.

Since the ecu's controls the butterfly valve and egr valve, (and doesn't know when the egr is blocked) these valves will still go through the motions as required by the ecu. When the egr is blocked the butterfly valve isn't needed to stop air coming in via the intercooler. So the plate inside is taken out. (And the remains still work as requested by ecu).




Tipsy-tap

OhBugger
3rd September 2012, 10:02 AM
Thanks for clarifying!

vk3mnm
10th September 2012, 11:27 PM
What a great read this thread was, just got a crd 07 model ordered the scangauge, got me convinced to do the mods to it reading this thread, also thinking of fitting the steinbauer chip, any suggestions of a good gauge set for the pillar pod for boost and temp?

Cheers Illya

patrolrulz
11th September 2012, 04:53 PM
Hey this is great info is it pos to block the EGR on a 4.2 what will this do if anything to engine?:beer:

the ferret
11th September 2012, 05:09 PM
It will give you a quicker spool up, while it also prevents all that carbon going back through the engine, hence, longer life.
Cheers, the ferret.

patrolrulz
11th September 2012, 06:18 PM
Thanks the ferret your EGR plates will they fit the 4.2?

threedogs
11th September 2012, 06:24 PM
Hi Ferret do you really need to clean all the gunk off? wouldn't it burn off?
or thats not possible with the EGR blocked bypassing it