PWM or MPPT.

[jay see]

Looking at getting a solar panel and have seen there are two types of regulators.
Don't need to explain the nitty gritty but which one is better.

From what I've read the MPPT regulates by a switch and pwm is by electrical pulse.

Means nothing to me. So which one??

[GQtdauto]

Short version , MPPT better for solar panels under xx watts , PWM better for solar panels above xx watts .

[Cuppa]

Unless you are going to pay a reasonable amount of money MPPT will be meaningless. There's plenty out there where the only MPPT thing about the regulator are the letters printed on the case, & others which have poor quality & under developed MPPT algorithms. I am firmly of the belief that unless you are going to spend $200-$300 + then you are better off getting a PWM regulator as you will likely get a better quality unit. All bar the ultra cheapies will be using PWM, including those with MPPT.

[jay see]

Short version , MPPT better for solar panels under xx watts , PWM better for solar panels above xx watts .
When you say xx watts is that combined or individual?
Will most likely be a folding kit type. Something that will keep the fridge going for more than three days. Depending on price anything from 120w - 200w.
Thanks.

[GQtdauto]

I have a 200 watt panel on the camper trailer and have a PWM regulator on it , a couple of weeks ago I noticed that when the clouds blocked out the sun I was registering 14.1 volts , later that day a tree was shading the panel and it was at 14.2 volts and I'm more than happy with that .
MPPT claim that they are 20 odd percent more efficient than PWM but I read recently that it might be true in a lab but in the real world they are not as good as they claim , still a bit better than PWM but not that much .
Much like solar panels are rated in labs and in the real world they don't get near claimed wattage .
For my money it's more important to have as much solar as possible than MPPT regulator and less watts but that's me , I will have to find the research I was looking at but have no idea where I came across it .
What I like about my system is I'm in the middle of fixing another 100 watt to the roof rack which will join up to a 40 watt panel up front giving me 140 watt on the GQ , but I'm wiring it up so I can put all solar from camper and GQ into one or the other regulators to give 340 watt of solar .
If need be later I can add another 200 watt panel to front half of camper trailer but will have to replace one of the regulators if I do .

[GQtdauto]

When you say xx watts is that combined or individual?
Will most likely be a folding kit type. Something that will keep the fridge going for more than three days. Depending on price anything from 120w - 200w.
Thanks.
As Cuppa has said anything in the lower price range will more than likely be PWM regulated anyway , if your watching pennies either try for as much folding solar as you can afford in watts ie as close to 200 as you can or even look around at a fixed type panel which usually come with a regulator and Anderson plugs and make your own legs up for it .
Not a good idea to hook up individual regulated panels to your batteries , they can confuse each other .

[jay see]

Thanks guys.
Now to go and find a good cheap folding kit. At least I know what I'm looking at now.

Any recommendations..

[GQtdauto]

Used to deal with Sunyee but they have changed a bit , there's always the supercentre.

[jay see]

Yeah, I know that kind of stuff seems to be a bit of a lucky dip with them. Will see what my searching uncovers.

[GQtdauto]

Yeah fleabay could be your friend .

[GQtdauto]

I paid $350 for a 100 watt folding solar panel maybe five years ago , they are getting cheaper .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/172425350842?chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww. ebay.com.au%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F17242535084 2%25253Fchn%25253Dps%252520%2526itemid%253D1724253 50842%2526targetid%253D289179167011%2526device%253 Dt%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D20040%2526 poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D760809722%2526adgroupi d%253D41746855618%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-289179167011%2526abcId%253D973846%2526merchantid%2 53D7364522%2526gclid%253DCMjwqrTtlNMCFYWUvAodFAQNI w%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1197271092261

[jay see]

So far this is the cheapest and local too.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/232165689627

Thoughts.

[Hodge]

Hey John. have a look at http://www.lowenergydevelopments.com.au/ .
They also have a brick 'n mortar shop in Preston. I got my panels from here and they have a good range, cables and all the accessories.
They also have an eBay shop.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/Low-Energy-Developments

[jay see]

Thanks Eric.

I like the idea of going into a store, but their 200 watt kit is over $400 and like the others made in China.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Folding-200-Watt-12v-Monocrystalline-Solar-Panel-200W-Ideal-for-camping-etc-/322184294269

Think I'll see if I can go in and have a chat to someone about the one that I posted.

[MB]

Kind of wish I had of gone to a speciality shop Jaysee mate. Bought a 120W folding Waeco job from BCF and the reg spazzed out on 3rd use. Took it back and was handballed off to a distributor bloke who is great but he's having all sorts of issues with head office Waeco tech department. Has been months now, still not back, all he wanted was a new reg to bolt on and give it straight back to me. Thankfully I haven't been in a hurry or desperate need for it back!

[BigRAWesty]

Correct me if I'm wrong Cuppa but basically the PWM charges are in short regulating on off switches.
They switch on at a set voltage and off at a set voltage.
Not sure if top end PWM chargers can supply a float voltage but my cheaper one doesn't. .

As for pannels, try find them without controllers.
They are usually cheaper..

[GQtdauto]

The panel you picked out Jaysee is about as good if not better than most of the cheapies, hard to say what tier it's made to but looks like it might be from one of the better manufactures .
Ideal is tier 1 , each product is tested during and after assembly and comes with a sheet of paper giving its individual stats not just the sticker on the back that gives the average of the product .
Which in this case if it's done to the certification it could well be tier 1 .
Any panel you buy check the leads and connections out , I put silastic on the wires coming and going from the reg to stop movement of the cables which did fray at the reg every time I opened or closed or moved the panel .
I would buy it if I wanted one put it that way .

[GQtdauto]

Correct me if I'm wrong Cuppa but basically the PWM charges are in short regulating on off switches.
They switch on at a set voltage and off at a set voltage.
Not sure if top end PWM chargers can supply a float voltage but my cheaper one doesn't. .

As for pannels, try find them without controllers.

They are usually cheaper..
Pretty much spot on , yes the better quality PWM do have a float , one of mine does the other gives so much at 14.6 or whatever it can then after a predetermined amount of time switches to 13.1-13.3 but even the cheap one is adjustable , if only I could read Chinese Engrish.

[BigRAWesty]

Pretty much spot on , yes the better quality PWM do have a float , one of mine does the other gives so much at 14.6 or whatever it can then after a predetermined amount of time switches to 13.1-13.3 but even the cheap one is adjustable , if only I could read Chinese Engrish.
Yes my cheapie is completely changeable so I can adjust it to suit different chemistry batteries.
I have also upped the output cut off so the battery doesn't drain as far.
From factory it was 10.1v.
I've upped it to 11v.

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

[GQtdauto]

Mine don't drain power at night , if they do it must be tiny amount .

[Cuppa]

Correct me if I'm wrong Cuppa but basically the PWM charges are in short regulating on off switches.
They switch on at a set voltage and off at a set voltage.
Not sure if top end PWM chargers can supply a float voltage but my cheaper one doesn't. .

As for pannels, try find them without controllers.
They are usually cheaper..

PWM = Pulse Width Modulation - (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation). Not sure I fully understand it, but basically the 'on/off switches are electronic rather than mechanical (Mosfets) which do what they do constantly at very high speed. Has nothing to do with whether a regulator which uses them has a 'float' capability. This is to do with multi stage charging. However I would think it would be highly unlikely that any regulator which has no float capability was anything other than a 'dumb' charger & almost certainly not going to employ PWM technology, regardless of what it says on the regulator. If a regulator does not have a float capability it would be an ultra cheap one capable of damaging the battery & shortening it's life. They are available for a couple of bucks & are best consigned to the hard rubbish asap. ALL reasonable to top end solar regulators use PWM technology, increasingly more also use MPPT technology to optimise this. Unfortunately the acronyms have been employed by shonky manufacturers & vendors as selling points with little basis or meaning. I would be 99.9% certain that your PWM reg has about as much PWM technology in it as my big toe Kallen.

As far as panels with a regulator attached to the back of the panel, you are correct, they are not a good idea, & very few of those regulators are worth keeping. But if kept, if removed from the panel & installed close to the battery together with heavier cabl, will improve the efficiency/performance of the solar set up. I have bought portable panels with panel mounted regulators, but treated the regs & supplied wiring as throwaway items, & the panels themselves were still good value.


Of the ebay sellers I think that Low Energy developments who have a reputation for quality at low prices.Others, in my experience have low prices & low quality. Problem is that all solar panels look much the same, but looks are deceiving.

[BigRAWesty]

PWM + Pulse Width Modulation - (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation). Not sure I fully understand it, but basically the 'on/off switches are electronic rather than mechanical (Mosfets) which do what they do constantly at very high speed. Has nothing to do with whether a regulator which uses them has a 'float' capability. This is to do with multi stage charging. However I would think it would be highly unlikely that any regulator which has no float capability was anything other than a 'dumb' charger & almost certainly not going to employ PWM technology, regardless of what it says on the regulator. If a regulator does not have a float capability it would be an ultra cheap one capable of damaging the battery & shortening it's life. They are available for a couple of bucks & are best consigned to the hard rubbish asap. ALL reasonable to top end solar regulators use PWM technology, increasingly more also use MPPT technology to optimise this. Unfortunately the acronyms have been employed by shonky manufacturers & vendors as selling points with little basis or meaning. I would be 99.9% certain that your PWM reg has about as much PWM technology in it as my big toe Kallen.

As far as panels with a regulator attached to the back of the panel, you are correct, they are not a good idea, & very few of those regulators are worth keeping. But if kept, if removed from the panel & installed close to the battery together with heavier cabl, will improve the efficiency/performance of the solar set up. I have bought portable panels with panel mounted regulators, but treated the regs & supplied wiring as throwaway items, & the panels themselves were still good value.


Of the ebay sellers I think that Low Energy developments who have a reputation for quality at low prices.Others, in my experience have low prices & low quality. Problem is that all solar panels look much the same, but looks are deceiving.
I think your spot in with the terms being used on units for marketing.
Mine is a cheap solar controller.
It does step down the amps as the battery nears full.
But cant be sure if that the controller or simply the battery??

[Cuppa]

I think your spot in with the terms being used on units for marketing.
Mine is a cheap solar controller.
It does step down the amps as the battery nears full.
But cant be sure if that the controller or simply the battery??

I would suggest that it is the battery, & that it is is actually still some way off of being ‘full’ (but to leave it connected risks damage through over charging). This, in part is the reason that a charger like that will shorten battery life. You can check this with a multimeter - provided you have no loads connected to the battery - monitor the charging until you see the charging current reduce & you consider the battery full. Disconnect the charger & let the battery stand for half an hour, then read the voltage across the terminals. This if full should be between 12.7v & 13.1v depending upon the age & condition of the battery. Then connect a load (a 60w headlight globe or similar is easy to do) to the battery for half an hour, disconnect it & let it stand for another half hour & then measure voltage across the terminals again. If the battery had been fully charged & is in good condition the voltage (which went down as soon as the load was connected) should have bounced back up to a minimum of 12.6v.

I’m guessing that the initial reading will at best be around 12.4v or 12.5v, which may not sound like a lot less but in actual fact is only around 75% to 80% of the battery capacity.
Those chargers ‘work’ in as much as they put some charge into the battery, but will end up costing an expensive replacement battery far sooner.
My expectation of life for a deep cycle battery is a minimum of 8 years, & hopefully more than 10. A cheap charger alone can reduce this to less than 4, but because the battery has not been fully charged there is a tendency to over discharge it in regular use (below 50% State of Charge) making an 18months or less lifespan very likely. I’ve seen some folk kill a good battery like this in 12 months! When a new battery cost $100’s this makes the cost saving on the regulator pale into insignificance! Let alone the inconvenience of the power system you are relying on letting you down in the middle of Woop Woop.

Right-o I’ll climb down off my soapbox now. :)

[threedogs]

So far this is the cheapest and local too.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/232165689627

Thoughts.

Vic off road have low prices on solar panels.
This is one of my solar panel set ups panel is a 120 watt folder
also have an 80 and a small 10 watt

[GQtdauto]

Where did you get that box from TD ?

[GQtdauto]

Cuppa , just having a look at my setup I would definitely benefit from an MPPT regulator , trouble is I would need two of the suckers one on the tug and one on the camper .
Probably $600 odd or more , I could buy 600 watt of solar panels for that money but wouldn't have the room to put them all anyway .
Been keeping an eye on camper and car batteries and charging cycles and volts and amps , all batteries are new , two in camper , and two in the GQ but all deep cycle 110 amp .
Camper hasn't been below 12.7 but when I run the big double thumper compressor the car batts go down to 12.4 , but bounce back to 12.9 - 13.0 in about ten minutes depending on sun on solar panel that is .
Running a fridge takes it to 12.7 until the fridge gets cold then bounces back to 13.1 again depending on solar or if I'm driving .
Going to pay more attention to the way they charge and float after I finish installing the 100 watt panels on the GQ but will also test the thing out by turning fridge on to freeze , running radio and maybe pumping up the tyres to see how it recovers and how low it gets .
May even hook up all batteries together and run both fridges for a few days just to make sure 340 watt of panel is good enough and regulators are doing the job properly , if not will look to upgrade .
I like the Morningstar brand of regulator having had one in the van but it was a big sucker in physical size for a 45 amp regulator .
Because I haven't really placed much of a load on the batteries yet for any great length of time I might just end up with hot beer and spoiled food .

[threedogs]

Where did you get that box from TD ?

It was from Jaycar it was one of a few weatherproof ones they sold

When I first brought my 80 watt panel back in '92 I paid $100
it was ex telstra from the outback somewhere they change them every 3 years regardless
My 80 is still going strong after all these years, a reg from Piranha cost $150.

heres a mounting idea
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solar-Panel-Corner-Mounting-Bracket-Kit-Caravan-RV-Motorhom-Boat-/391540459271?hash=item5b29a14707

[threedogs]

Cuppa I was just reading the stats on a 120 watt folding panel.
It states one 60 watt panel will return approx 3.40 AH, question is
being 2 x 60 panels does that mean I return 6.80ah approx or is it
only 3.40 still.
when hooking two panels together is it pos to pos and neg to neg
what happens if you go pos to neg, having a brain fade sorry lol

[GQtdauto]

Sorry TD where did you get that box from ? I seen your reg on fleabay .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30A-MPPT-Solar-Panel-Battery-Regulator-Charge-Controller-12V-24V-360W-720W-CE-SS-/310962224695
If you keep pos to pos neg to neg it stays 12 volt but if you go neg pos you double to 24 volt .

[GQtdauto]

Sorry TD you got it from Jaycar , must learn to read more gooder.

[threedogs]

Sorry TD you got it from Jaycar , must learn to read more gooder.

You read much betterer now lol
Now its stays 12v ,do I now double the AH input like 3.4 ah x 2 , that being 60 watts and 60 watts
should give me 6.8 yes/no

[threedogs]

Looking at getting a solar panel and have seen there are two types of regulators.
Don't need to explain the nitty gritty but which one is better.

From what I've read the MPPT regulates by a switch and pwm is by electrical pulse.

Means nothing to me. So which one??

What are your plans for this , will it be portable,perfect up the Murray etc
or fixed which could cause problems chasing the sun if an awning is erected.
more than welcome to pop in and check out my setup, its going all the time
in the backyard running an 18 ah battery

[Cuppa]

Cuppa I was just reading the stats on a 120 watt folding panel.
It states one 60 watt panel will return approx 3.40 AH, question is
being 2 x 60 panels does that mean I return 6.80ah approx or is it
only 3.40 still.
when hooking two panels together is it pos to pos and neg to neg
what happens if you go pos to neg, having a brain fade sorry lol

GQtdauto answered it. Same as with batteries. + to + is in parallel & will give you around 6.8A (not Ah) @ 12v in good conditions. + to - is in series & will give you 3.4A @ 24v.

71458

[GQtdauto]

Setup on mine TD is camper 200 watt panel is fixed but on hinges I've made , can move them thru about 180 degrees if needed , on the GQ the 100 watt can be moved from flat to 90 degrees so straight up and down if needed .
Just waiting for paint to dry and glue to set and get off my arse and should have a pic or two tomorrow on what I've done .

[Cuppa]

Jay see, if you want a low cost solar reg, capable of handling up to around 170w of solar I doubt you would do better than this one at the price.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SOLAR-PRO-PWM-CHARGE-CONTROLLER-12-24V-10A-/262194443021?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

Note that it comes with a 5 year warranty ..... which says a lot about it’s quality.

It’s a reg which is well thought of from a well known company with a great attitude. I know a number of folk experimenting with low cost computerised lithium battery management who have found these to be good & reliable regs.

It also has the ability to connect a battery temperature probe, allowing for temperature compensated charging, which I rate highly in regard to looking after batteries well.

In terms of quality the difference between this & the Chinese cheapies like the CMPT02 is chalk & cheese...... no comparison.

[jay see]

Wow, glad I didn't ask for a detailed answer.

Thanks all.
Have some reading to do. I'm sure that this may help others as well.

[threedogs]

GQtdauto jaysee, Im in two minds over fixed panels on the roof, to be able to get the best efficiency
out of a panel you really need to be chasing the sun.
autotd is half way there with being able to "angle" the panel towards the sun, but will still need to move the patrol
over the course of a day.
I didnt like fixed panels to start off with as you needed to park in full sun to benefit from them,
but being in full sun also meant what you're running is out in the heat as well,,,,,,but,,,,,,,,found having the 80watt
panel on my other camper it served as a tropical roof similar to what Land Rover use ,,and actually kept
interior temps down.
I flat panel on its own would only be good for a short period of time, and at a certain time of year.
Winter with the low sun would be hard to get a panel working at 100% in full sun,
said my peace,, any thoughts??????
A free standing panel that can be moved has my vote over fixed panels

[GQtdauto]

This is the basic idea TD , panel adjusts anywhere from flat to about 90 degrees .
Problems with photos just now send them later.

[GQtdauto]

Photos of adjustable panel .
71465714667146771468

[jay see]

Jay see, if you want a low cost solar reg, capable of handling up to around 170w of solar I doubt you would do better than this one at the price.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SOLAR-PRO-PWM-CHARGE-CONTROLLER-12-24V-10A-/262194443021?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

Note that it comes with a 5 year warranty ..... which says a lot about it’s quality.

It’s a reg which is well thought of from a well known company with a great attitude. I know a number of folk experimenting with low cost computerised lithium battery management who have found these to be good & reliable regs.

It also has the ability to connect a battery temperature probe, allowing for temperature compensated charging, which I rate highly in regard to looking after batteries well.

In terms of quality the difference between this & the Chinese cheapies like the CMPT02 is chalk & cheese...... no comparison.
Cupp that link of the reg. Are you saying to get a folding panel type and replace the reg with this one???

If so I recall someone saying to go for a larger panel in watts. Will the one that I posted the link to earlier work. I would like to use it as is this coming weekend and then change the reg after we return.
It's a 200 watt panel..

[threedogs]

How does that work with panels at 90 to each other
GQtdauto I see what youre trying to do but do you think it efficient??
jaysee my 120 folder worked straight out of the box I replaced the reg
with the one back a few posts. Those watt meters are handy to see whats going on.

[GQtdauto]

The small panel is only 20 watt my stuff up , so it's not crucial to the system , was just looking at it and reckon I can get a 200 watt panel up there and then I can flip it up and use it as a sail to save on fuel , just have to learn how to tack across the road .
You're right I have three panels with the camper hooked up each facing a different way when hooked up , just got a quote for an mppt to suit my setup $299 each and I need two so may stick with PWM I think .

[Cuppa]

Cupp that link of the reg. Are you saying to get a folding panel type and replace the reg with this one???

If so I recall someone saying to go for a larger panel in watts. Will the one that I posted the link to earlier work. I would like to use it as is this coming weekend and then change the reg after we return.
It's a 200 watt panel..
Yes, I am suggesting it makes sense to treat the regs on the rear of cheap folding panels as throwaway items.

The answer to would that reg suit a 200w panel is 'it depends'. :) What it depends on is whether that 200w panel performs as it claims. A 200w panel can in good conditions put out around 12 amps & that reg is only designed to handle 10 amps. I would expect that if the panel provided more than the reg could handle the 'extra' would just be wasted, but not having personal experience with that particular reg I'm unable to give a guarantee that it would not fry it like would happen to many of the cheapies regs. My guess is that it would be ok, but it's just a guess. My suggestion was based on my thoughts that you maybe better with a slightly lower output panel. If you *need* 200w, based upon your assessment of the power requirements you have then I would be suggesting you look for a mid range quality 15amp reg, or bigger if you think you might want to add more panels later.



That said, I would not advise anyone to get that folding panel you linked to. Solar panels are large & fairly heavy items to have to lift in & out of vehicles. From my experience I would suggest that a 120w folding panel (ie 2x 60w) is about the biggest which is practical. 200w folder is a real monster probably weighing around 25kg+ which I 100% guarantee you'll quickly get jack of moving around. (To follow the sun during the day - hourly, & loading in& out of the car...honest! If you need 200w I'd suggest two 100w folders or a 120w folder plus an 80w single. I know you are itching to get sorted, but I'm trying to throw up a bit of caution to save you making what I believe could be a mistake you'll regret....... but of course ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Couldn't you borrow some panels or a gennie for the upcoming trip, & buy your own later in a less rushed manner? If you are passing anywhere near Ballarat I've got a 100w portable folder with reg you can borrow.

Then there is the 'panels aint panels' issue. I have bought panels off various ebay sources & it has taught me that some definitely work much better than others. Some with just a little bit of shadow shut off virtually their entire output, others are far more shade tolerant meaning , for example 10% shading results in maintaining 90% output. I have no idea how the Sunyee work, you might get lucky, you might not. The reason I suggest Low Energy Developments (& Rich Solar panels from 'bit deals') is that they have the well established reputation for quality, & I have personally been happy with both. IMHO they have the best of the cheap panels, & are the best value for money. The rest are a gamble.

[jay see]

Yes, I am suggesting it makes sense to treat the regs on the rear of cheap folding panels as throwaway items.

The answer to would that reg suit a 200w panel is 'it depends'. :) What it depends on is whether that 200w panel performs as it claims. A 200w panel can in good conditions put out around 12 amps & that reg is only designed to handle 10 amps. I would expect that if the panel provided more than the reg could handle the 'extra' would just be wasted, but not having personal experience with that particular reg I'm unable to give a guarantee that it would not fry it like would happen to many of the cheapies regs. My guess is that it would be ok, but it's just a guess. My suggestion was based on my thoughts that you maybe better with a slightly lower output panel. If you *need* 200w, based upon your assessment of the power requirements you have then I would be suggesting you look for a mid range quality 15amp reg, or bigger if you think you might want to add more panels later.



That said, I would not advise anyone to get that folding panel you linked to. Solar panels are large & fairly heavy items to have to lift in & out of vehicles. From my experience I would suggest that a 120w folding panel (ie 2x 60w) is about the biggest which is practical. 200w folder is a real monster probably weighing around 25kg+ which I 100% guarantee you'll quickly get jack of moving around. (To follow the sun during the day - hourly, & loading in& out of the car...honest! If you need 200w I'd suggest two 100w folders or a 120w folder plus an 80w single. I know you are itching to get sorted, but I'm trying to throw up a bit of caution to save you making what I believe could be a mistake you'll regret....... but of course ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Couldn't you borrow some panels or a gennie for the upcoming trip, & buy your own later in a less rushed manner? If you are passing anywhere near Ballarat I've got a 100w portable folder with reg you can borrow.

Then there is the 'panels aint panels' issue. I have bought panels off various ebay sources & it has taught me that some definitely work much better than others. Some with just a little bit of shadow shut off virtually their entire output, others are far more shade tolerant meaning , for example 10% shading results in maintaining 90% output. I have no idea how the Sunyee work, you might get lucky, you might not. The reason I suggest Low Energy Developments (& Rich Solar panels from 'bit deals') is that they have the well established reputation for quality, & I have personally been happy with both. IMHO they have the best of the cheap panels, & are the best value for money. The rest are a gamble.

Again thanks cuppa for your input.

No rush now as we have pulled the pin on the trip.

Don't need 200watt, well don't think so.
Will take all this onboard and decide.

[threedogs]

jaysee you've probably heard this before but add up the amps on everything
you take camping. That will determine what size panel you'll require.
More than welcome to try my 120 watt folder before you decide what you want.
My mate has a 160 watt folder but thats a big unit to muscle around chasing
the sun.

[Throbbinhood]

There's a handy excel spreadsheet on the myswag forum that helps calculate expected amp usage for various things (fridges/lights etc), then you plugin your batteries/panel sizing etc and will give you estimate usage rates, how many days you'll get out of x etc. Its good kit.

[Cuppa]

There's a handy excel spreadsheet on the myswag forum that helps calculate expected amp usage for various things (fridges/lights etc), then you plugin your batteries/panel sizing etc and will give you estimate usage rates, how many days you'll get out of x etc. Its good kit.

Sounds useful. Knowing your power requirements is the important first step, often missed.

However 'how many days' as a balance between usage, battery capacity & charging source capacity only becomes useful if 'pattern of usage' is included in picture. Eg. solar & battery requirements for weekend camping trips after which you can go home & plug in to a 240v mains charger will be very different than if you want to camp longer periods. (Once over 3 or 4 days you are into 'indefinite usage' territory). On caravan & motorhome forums this frequently causes argument because those doing so often fail to take usage patterns into account. ie. if prepared to go to a caravan park & plug into power every 3 nights or so, the solar/battery capacity is far less. Similarly if using in car charging the time spent driving daily (or not) can make a big difference to how much solar/battery capacity is required. For many weekend campers the decision is to *extend* the time spent at camp, (accepting that even with solar charging the charge level of the battery will reduce a bit each day until getting back to 240v).

I suggest that before ever considering how much solar/battery capacity is needed the following questions need to be answered.
1. What is the max time I want to camp for with only solar charging?
2. What will be my max power requirements ( check the power requirements of each appliance when running, average time in use each day).

Once those two questions are answered - the constraints of storage space & weight restrictions will very possibly introduce compromises eg. Could we switch the fridge off after a couple of days, use less lights etc etc

Just as an example my personal choices : I wanted to be able to rely on solar & in car charging indefinitely as we intend to travel long term without reliance on caravan parks. I also want to be able to camp for weeks at a time without needing to drive to recharge. Those two choices meant I needed a system capable of bringing the batteries back to full charge via solar every 24 hours, with as big a 'buffer' to cope with poor solar input as possible (possibilities determined by available space & weight). As long as I get moderate sun I have sufficient panels to cover my power usage & bring the batteries back to full daily. If I don't get sufficient sun, I estimate we have the ability to stay put for at least 10 days before we have to think about either limiting our appliance use or driving to charge the batteries. Having recently been put on a CPAP machine means I now have more critical appliance use, which may reduce our buffer a bit, but thems the breaks. Many full time travellers are happy enough with a buffer of 3 days & are prepared to plug into 240v at a caravan park if they need to. We expect to be travelling in country where this is not an option (& don't want to carry a gennie).

Soooo..... I hope that rather than telling anyone what they should or should not have, that I am demonstrating that everyone's needs are different depending upon the choices they make about usage patterns. Many get hung up on amps, watts, amp hours etc but that is relatively easy once requirements are determined. The harder part is knowing what your intended usage pattern will be & everyone has this issue, but once you get your head around this the rest falls into place (including what compromises are necessary). Experience makes it easier of course, but for most it's a chicken & egg dilemma. Many push ahead making arbitrary decisions about what they believe their needs will be, most commonly on the basis of cost and/or 'my mate said X watts of panels & Y amp hours of battery' suits him, so thats what I'll get, basically 'cos it's easier than working out personal usage patterns. This *may* yield a good result if lucky, but commonly results in disappointment when requirements exceed capacity & the user gets frustrated 'chasing their tail' with batteries which get over-discharged, or just decide to live with a system which provides for less than was desired.

[Throbbinhood]

The spreadsheet is an indication only (like anything we say here, really). If the clouds are black for three weeks on end, you'll struggle with a 95L engle, lights everywhere, for more than a few days. It's a handy indication when making solar purchases etc, to give you a rough idea and it accounts for summer/winter length of days.

For me, I have a 250w panel plus 180ah on board. Plus the ability to hook up the aux on the car, or just run the car for a quick juice up if need be. We stayed for two weeks over summer, plenty of overcast days, running 50L fridge at 1c, led lights on from 7pm-11pm and some on low all night (have a bub so it's easier leaving them on to see him at night). Plus phone chargers and whatever else. Never had an issue with that. Didn't need to use the electric blankets, if I did I'd like another 250w panel to juice them up during the day (when I do snow trips for instance), but I'll see how the current 250w copes (theoretically the fridge will draw fewer amps as the ambient temp will be much the same as internal fridge temp anyway).

[GQtdauto]

Possibly the best and easiest to understand explanation I've seen Cuppa , some of us do push the risk of having a warm beer and replace expensive batteries all for the sake of a buck or two and I will admit I'm probably in that category.
Midday here in northeast vic thought I would test the diffence between having the roof panel flat and angled up at the sun , I get just over a third of a volt difference which for a small system would be significant but a system like yours not so much.

[sooty_10]

This is the solar controller I run. I didn't get it from this seller so shop around.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/107.jpg

I also have a Bluetooth dongle for it so I can check it out on my phone.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/108.jpg

Gives me 30day history with total times in each charge mode. Voltages customisable through the app for the different modes too.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/109.jpg

I have a 160W folding panel on the roof and car doesn't move often these days. Fridge is on permanent with it.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[lucus30]

This is the solar controller I run. I didn't get it from this seller so shop around.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/107.jpg

I also have a Bluetooth dongle for it so I can check it out on my phone.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/108.jpg

Gives me 30day history with total times in each charge mode. Voltages customisable through the app for the different modes too.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/109.jpg

I have a 160W folding panel on the roof and car doesn't move often these days. Fridge is on permanent with it.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
Wow I was going to get a victron any way but I guess now I'll be getting the Bluetooth dongle too. Looks like a great bit of kit

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[Cuppa]

Wow I was going to get a victron any way but I guess now I'll be getting the Bluetooth dongle too. Looks like a great bit of kit

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Yep, I don't think you'll regret it.

[sooty_10]

Yep, I don't think you'll regret it.
They are a quality unit. My original pwm on the back of the solar panel (cheap Chinese crap) was always dying and never could use the solar panels properly eg. In the sun. This controller runs flawlessy.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[threedogs]

Heres one a bit cheaper, same thing imo
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-ENERGY-BLUE-SOLAR-12-24V-75-15-MPPT-SOLAR-CONTROLLER-75V-15A-/271875497952?hash=item3f4d0adfe0:g:lJAAAOSwp5JWXSo R

[GQtdauto]

I think I will end up with one of these .

[threedogs]

I think I will end up with one of these .

where would you mount it, Im thinking of mounting my mppt somewhere
inside the bullbar on the AUX battery side,
Question how close to the battery do these things have to be, 600mm-900mm
enough??? no eye dear lol

[GQtdauto]

Might fix mine to near the spare batt in back but do a fly lead .

[jay see]

Now you guys have really confused me.
Cuppa

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SOLAR-PRO-PWM-CHARGE-CONTROLLER-12-24V-10A-/262194443021?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

sooty_10

One MPPT, one PWM. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/116.jpg

[GQtdauto]

Thought that might happen , the PWM reg on my 200 watt panel is going bonza, the one on the 100 watt is not delivering the power it should be and yes it's a cheapie and about a year old .
Given that I've got 2 spare batteries in the GQ both gel cell I've been watching the charging over the last two days and I'm not getting past 13.8 , these are new batteries and I don't want to take a chance now I know I could have a problem .
Because most regulators are not water proof and I'm limited for where I can mount any regulator I like the idea of the app , so I can mount the reg on cargo barrier behind fridge and still know what it's doing .
The 200 watt panel is mounted on my camper trailer in the shed and I'm not sure it's getting any direct sunlight at all but every time I check it the volts are 13.3 so no need for me to touch that PWM reg as it's obviously a good one .
Not all PWM regs are crap and the one on the 200 watt panel is proof of that and it came with the panel so I have no idea of quality price etc I just know it's working very well .
Of the cheap regs I have brought over the years and ones that came with portable panels all have been replaced except one , but I don't look after my stuff and leaving them in the rain and heavy mist/fog has cost me a couple for sure .
I do now tend to look after things a bit better .

[Cuppa]

Now you guys have really confused me.
Cuppa



No need for confusion! Previously I recommended a cheaper Victron on the basis that it was good value & from a manufacturer with a reputation for quality. This reg that Sooty posted is from the same manufacturer but a step up in regard to being MPPT (which would be genuine MPPT, not just letters on the outside of the case) & more so because of it's ability for remote monitoring on a phone (for additional cost). Also the previous one I recommended was a bit small for the 200w of panel(s) you mentioned. This one is the next size up (15 amp instead of 10 amp) & would cope with up to 250w pane(s). If you want to keep costs down restricting yourself to 170w panel(s) & are happy to have no monitoring the previous Victron reg would be a reasonable choice.

[Cuppa]

Question how close to the battery do these things have to be, 600mm-900mm
enough??? no eye dear lol

As close as possible & practical. However NOT inside a small enclosed space WITH the battery where gas could build up. Although most unlikely you should never risk putting ANY electrical equipment which has a potential to create a spark in an evironment which could possibly become explosive. With AGM/Gel batteries the risk is minimal, but they can gas in some situations. The risk is far higher with wet batteries.

Wet batteries should never be inside the vehicle.

[jay see]

Thanks Cuppa.
That makes sense...

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk

[Covo71]

There's a handy excel spreadsheet on the myswag forum that helps calculate expected amp usage for various things (fridges/lights etc), then you plugin your batteries/panel sizing etc and will give you estimate usage rates, how many days you'll get out of x etc. Its good kit.

You wouldn't have the link by chance?

[sooty_10]

where would you mount it, Im thinking of mounting my mppt somewhere
inside the bullbar on the AUX battery side,
Question how close to the battery do these things have to be, 600mm-900mm
enough??? no eye dear lol
I mounted mine above the glove box, out of sight and can be accessed easily if needed. My aux batt is under bonnet so as close as I could while remaining out of elements and engine heat. If I had a rear battery which may happen one day, I would relocate to the cargo barrier.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[Throbbinhood]

You wouldn't have the link by chance?

Here is the link. http://symon.id.au/symon/myswag/Symon%20Solar.xlsx
Please note this is an excel spread sheet.

Thanks to Symon from the Myswag forum for the spreadsheet, hopefully doesn't mind me sharing it here.

[threedogs]

I already have some decent sized cable coming from
the Aux battery to the bullbar a run of about 500mm,
terminating at a 50amp anderson plug. I should be
able to wire my weather proof MPPT reg up inside the grill
I think. Also need to change the 50 amp anderson to a fully fitted job

[GQtdauto]

Still playing with the setup on the GQ , might pee off the 20 watt and just use the 100 watt for now .
Just have to solve the age old question of where to put the reg without running the wires too far although it looks like yours is sorted .
Thinking that the trip to the corner country next month will let me know the problems with the system if any and then I can fix it before next years 6 month trip hopefully to the cape .
Fancy looking Anderson plug you have there .

[threedogs]

Still playing with the setup on the GQ , might pee off the 20 watt and just use the 100 watt for now .
Just have to solve the age old question of where to put the reg without running the wires too far although it looks like yours is sorted .
Thinking that the trip to the corner country next month will let me know the problems with the system if any and then I can fix it before next years 6 month trip hopefully to the cape .
Fancy looking Anderson plug you have there .

Like you I have a small 10 watt panel, Im thinking that would be OK to hook up to
start battery to keep it "busy",
Must also figure out how to have a solar outlet at the back I have that cig,merit and guage
for the small cut out, this would come in handy depending on the camp site,,
position of the sun etc, somehow I need to get my Patrol fixed first.lol

[GQtdauto]

Yeah everyone's rig is setup slightly different TD , and we all have our own ideas sometimes right sometimes wrong .
Still haven't finished my setup I'm busy doing other stuff and charging up a mates dead ride on mower battery which has gone from 5 volt and .1 amp to 11.65 volt and .78 amp after one full day on the GQ 100 watt solar and holding .
So will keep it up for a couple more days and see if it restores the battery , I notice the equalisation charge is pulsing 16.5 volt into it to try and shock it into life .

[BigRAWesty]

Well just doing a quick hunt and found the VE 75/15 with Bluetooth dongle for $195.
Dongle is $65 alone so about a $20 saving..

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391646943763

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

[threedogs]

Is bluetooth really required Im old school and find it hard to
figure out how it can be helpfull. Been charging my battery
now for over 25 years without it ???

[GQtdauto]

Technology can be great but where do you draw the line , I do like the concept of it but really I suppose it's just another gadget .
And yeah are you going to be on the phone all day checking or do what we normally do , it won't move the panels for you to chase the sun and if you don't know you should be I'm not sure you would be smart enough to use the app or understand it.
My volt and amp gauges give me a good idea what's going and half the time I can't find my phone .

[sooty_10]

Is bluetooth really required Im old school and find it hard to
figure out how it can be helpfull. Been charging my battery
now for over 25 years without it ???
I have my regulator hidden away from sight. I use the app inside the house to check the battery status while the patrol is sitting idle from time to time.

Probably wouldn't use it while out camping so much.

Just had the option for it so figured pretty nifty. You can also change all the regulator settings using the phone app on the fly and read any errors (nil recorded so far).

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[Cuppa]

And it's cheaper than a battery monitor. IMO it is not essential but is good to have. Above all the best way to look after your batteries is familiarity with what is normal for your system. The app (or a battery monitor, a volt meter or even a regularly used multimeter) are all helpful tools to monitor & become familiar. Then when something happens outside of the 'norm' you have prior warning whilst you still have choices to make, rather than discovering things are awry once your battery has karked it. I reckon that app looked like a nice neat way to do things. If you get up for a leak early each morning, before the sun comes up have a quick look at the app then, & same in the evening before bed. Familiarity is the key.

[GQtdauto]

Basically what I do with the meters and gauges then double check with the multimeter , I do like this MPPT setup from Victron but can't justify the expense just yet , it will be on the shopping list for the future though .

[BigRAWesty]

So a 200W pannel, 70 15 blue charger and pannel mounts will be on order today..
Great way to drop $350!!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[BigRAWesty]

So the VE controller arrived.
First thoughts..
Solid as.
Small compact.
Teminals only just fit 6mm cable into it..
My only dislike atm is the small screws to tighten terminals use a flat blade screw driver.
So its a bit difficult to get tight..
But shes jump into gear.
I didnt go the wifi dongle as its $65 thats not critical atm so its just doing its thing..

[GQtdauto]

So the VE controller arrived.
First thoughts..
Solid as.
Small compact.
Teminals only just fit 6mm cable into it..
My only dislike atm is the small screws to tighten terminals use a flat blade screw driver.
So its a bit difficult to get tight..
But shes jump into gear.
I didnt go the wifi dongle as its $65 thats not critical atm so its just doing its thing..

One less thing to break Westy.

[BigRAWesty]

One less thing to break Westy.
Thats true but i do like to track input and output.
If its an over cast day and output is overtaking then i can top it up with second pannel

[the evil twin]

So the VE controller arrived.
First thoughts..
Solid as.
Small compact.
Teminals only just fit 6mm cable into it..
My only dislike atm is the small screws to tighten terminals use a flat blade screw driver.
So its a bit difficult to get tight..
But shes jump into gear.
I didnt go the wifi dongle as its $65 thats not critical atm so its just doing its thing..

Hiya cobber...

I have about 10 of the Victron 75/15s deployed at various sites.
Great bit of kit (but I do try and use the Aussie made Intervolts where I can but they are bulky).
Only bit I don't like is the jumper that sets the low voltage cutoff sticks out a tad more than it should IMHO.

FWIW the best way for novices to look at MPPT versus PWM regs is as follows (all other things being equal etc);

PWM is a current limiter and the max output is the supplied current IE it discards the 'extra' volts produced by the panel (12 volt panels are capable of running at up too 17 to 20)
EG 18 volts and 5 amps in (100 watt panel) gives you 12 volts and 5 amps out or approx 60 watts (max)

MPPT are like DC/DC charger except rather than compensate for voltage losses like Redarcs etc they make up for efficiency losses and step up the current output IE they use the full voltage output and produce more current (at less volts) than Panel supplies.
EG 18 volts and 5 amps (100 Watt panel) in gives you 12 volts and 7.5 amps out or approx 90 watts (max)

Obviously you don't get that out of either scenario in real life as i just used the numbers to demo the principle

That means you can use any sort of panel for your Victron, 12 volt, 24 volt or even a house jobbie

[BigRAWesty]

So this system is wicked.
So the weekend has been over cast as hell.. Near raining..
The cf50 is connected to the system as a freezer to cycle the system..
Its going that good even on these crappy days im thinking ill leave the 120w folding home..
Yesterday put in 10ah at around 18v..
Todays a brighter day so will see how its proformed today..

[BigRAWesty]

186wh produced today

[sooty_10]

Here's mine for the dayhttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/112.jpg

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[GQtdauto]

Isn't that much the same as yesterday Westy ?

[BigRAWesty]

Isn't that much the same as yesterday Westy ?
Im only metering input with the watts up meter so voltage varies.
So all though it put in "10A" it may have been from 13v up to 20v..
So by reading the watts input it doesnt matter the voltage or amperage as its the sum of both..
But yea, both days have been similar.
Only just reached a peak of 100w input threw the day, so still got a lot of headroom..

[the evil twin]

snip...
Its going that good even on these crappy days im thinking ill leave the 120w folding home..


Yeah, I know what you mean.
I have 4 x 25 watt semi flexible panels feeding a Tracer MPPT reg and that outperforms my prev 120 watt (2 x 60's) folding setup plus is 1/2 the size folded up and about 1/4 the weight.
Ended up selling the 120 watt about a year ago as I wasn't using it.

[BigRAWesty]

So today was a shit day lol..
97wh lol..
So im taking my portable with me lol..

[GQtdauto]

Yeah quantity wins every time , the 600 watt I had on the van kept three batteries going no matter what the weather and most of the time it was only charging two anyway .
I've heard 250 watt of solar minimum per 100 amp of battery covers you on overcast days but only just and depending on usage .

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah quantity wins every time , the 600 watt I had on the van kept three batteries going no matter what the weather and most of the time it was only charging two anyway .
I've heard 250 watt of solar minimum per 100 amp of battery covers you on overcast days but only just and depending on usage .
Well atm the van had 200w pannel and 120ah battery.
So adding my 120w gets me around the 2.5-1 ratio..
I did read 2-1 is good.. but more is better as you say..
Best bit is both are 22v pannels.. so ive set it up to run in parallel so itll be 14A @ 22v..

[the evil twin]

snip...
Best bit is both are 22v pannels.. so ive set it up to run in parallel so itll be 14A @ 22v..

Yep, if all panels are the same Voc (open circuit volts) that idea will work tickety boo

[BigRAWesty]

Yep, if all panels are the same Voc (open circuit volts) that idea will work tickety boo
Well the fixed is 22v and the folding is 22.5v..
Thats close enough yea??

[lucus30]

Well the fixed is 22v and the folding is 22.5v..
Thats close enough yea??
Yup good enough both will essentially be 22v

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[bazzaboy]

Jay see, if you want a low cost solar reg, capable of handling up to around 170w of solar I doubt you would do better than this one at the price.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SOLAR-PRO-PWM-CHARGE-CONTROLLER-12-24V-10A-/262194443021?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

Note that it comes with a 5 year warranty ..... which says a lot about it’s quality.

It’s a reg which is well thought of from a well known company with a great attitude. I know a number of folk experimenting with low cost computerised lithium battery management who have found these to be good & reliable regs.

It also has the ability to connect a battery temperature probe, allowing for temperature compensated charging, which I rate highly in regard to looking after batteries well.

In terms of quality the difference between this & the Chinese cheapies like the CMPT02 is chalk & cheese...... no comparison.

Hi Cuppa, Just purchased one of these controllers for my twin folding 80w panels. In the instructions it says to always connect to the battery first so that the controller can recognize the system voltage. Knowing not much about solar gear, does this mean every time I use the panels I need to connect the controller to the battery and then the panels to the controller? Seems at bit of a pain on a portable system with the controller mounted on the rear of a panel.

[Cuppa]

Hi Cuppa, Just purchased one of these controllers for my twin folding 80w panels. In the instructions it says to always connect to the battery first so that the controller can recognize the system voltage. Knowing not much about solar gear, does this mean every time I use the panels I need to connect the controller to the battery and then the panels to the controller? Seems at bit of a pain on a portable system with the controller mounted on the rear of a panel.

Not having personally used that specific controller myself I can't be 100% certain, but I would be very surprised if disconnecting the controller from the batteries each time is necessary. I would think that if you leave the controller connected to the batteries it would be ok if you then connect the panels to the controller using an anderson plug ...BUT .... just to be cautious I would suggest that prior to connecting the panels that you have them either covered or just laying face down so their output is restricted to 'not much at all'.

[the evil twin]

Just leave it connected to the batteries all the time.
You can connect/disconnect the panels as often as you like (which is sorta what happens when a cloud passes or the sun goes down).

If, for whatever reason, you do disconnect the batteries from the controller, reconnect the battery before you reconnect the panels/s.

The reason isn't actually to do with the batteries it is to do with the load voltage.
If the controller doesn't know the load is 12 volt equipment it can send overvoltages to whatever you have connected.

[Bidja]

Depends how your controller is hooked up to your panels, but if space allows, IMO include a rated isolating switch between solar array and controller (single pole ok here). Handy for for safe PV isolation and testing panel out open circuit.

[bazzaboy]

Depends how your controller is hooked up to your panels, but if space allows, IMO include a rated isolating switch between solar array and controller (single pole ok here). Handy for for safe PV isolation and testing panel out open circuit.

Thanks Bidja, that's exactly what I will do, permanently mount a rated water proof switch and the controller to the rear of a panel. Saves another removable connection, allows me to isolate the panels, and to connect the controller to the battery first via the Anderson connector.

[sooty_10]

Thanks Bidja, that's exactly what I will do, permanently mount a rated water proof switch and the controller to the rear of a panel. Saves another removable connection, allows me to isolate the panels, and to connect the controller to the battery first via the Anderson connector. bazzaboy when you say portable panels are you wanting to be able to connect to other vehicles or is it simply so you can move the panels around to catch the sun?
The best location for this regulator or any regulator for that matter is no where near the panel, mount it as close to your battery as possible. Regulators dont like heat, the sun and the back of panels are great sources of heat. By having the regulator close to battery it increases the effectiveness of the regulator and reduces the voltage drop effects.
Mine is permanently mounted in the patrol, and my panels are easily connected/disconnected via anderson plug extension lead for portability chasing the sun.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[the evil twin]

Agree 100%... worst place for a Reg is on the Panels due to heat and voltage drop, best place is close to the Batteries as is reasonable.

[Bidja]

Agree totally that Regs should be close as possible to the battery bank, also be mindful of the temp range and ventilation of the enclosure that is to accommodate the controller.

[bazzaboy]

bazzaboy when you say portable panels are you wanting to be able to connect to other vehicles or is it simply so you can move the panels around to catch the sun?
The best location for this regulator or any regulator for that matter is no where near the panel, mount it as close to your battery as possible. Regulators dont like heat, the sun and the back of panels are great sources of heat. By having the regulator close to battery it increases the effectiveness of the regulator and reduces the voltage drop effects.
Mine is permanently mounted in the patrol, and my panels are easily connected/disconnected via anderson plug extension lead for portability chasing the sun.

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Good info, thank you. This has all come about due to the failure of the original controller that is connected to the rear of one of my twin folding 80w portable panels. I like this set-up as it enables me to relocate them to catch the best sun. I recently had my auxiliary battery fail while away camping. It dropped a cell reducing the battery voltage to 10volt. While checking out the battery I checked the panel's output and found it fluctuating between 7 - 16volts. Not good, and obviously faulty and possibly the cause of the battery cell failure over time.
Taking your advice, and mounting the controller close to the battery would locate it under the bonnet, a place I thought would also be hostile for a controller due to engine heat, or are you suggesting that I locate it in the vehicle? Maybe I should make a small switchboard in the rear of my vehicle to mount the controller and run a red Anderson connector out the back for panel connection, similar to your's, might solve a lot of issues.

[Bidja]

I recently had my auxiliary battery fail while away camping. It dropped a cell reducing the battery voltage to 10volt. While checking out the battery I checked the panel's output and found it fluctuating between 7 - 16volts. Not good, and obviously faulty and possibly the cause of the battery cell failure over time.

You state that you
checked the panel's output and found it fluctuating between 7 - 16volts

OK, guess you checked panel outputs with array disconnected from controller. If not, good idea to check the PV array output (full sun) when isolated from the controller: open circuit voltage and the current flow with a multi meter. Then if all is good, connect your sys up. PV output specs should be on the back of panel. Note: open circuit voltage of panel will vary depending on sun exposure.

[bazzaboy]

You state that you

OK, guess you checked panel outputs with array disconnected from controller. If not, good idea to check the PV array output (full sun) when isolated from the controller: open circuit voltage and the current flow with a multi meter. Then if all is good, connect your sys up. PV output specs should be on the back of panel. Note: open circuit voltage of panel will vary depending on sun exposure.

Yeh, checked both panel outputs in isolation from the controller. All good, meets specs. I think the cheap Chinese controller just decided to "spit the dummy". I think I'll just have to get on with building a switchboard panel to mount everything on, including the new solar controller. Finding an easily accessible location has been the delay.

[Bidja]

IMO, it appears you have a good handle on what you are doing there, sounds good.

[sooty_10]

Good info, thank you. This has all come about due to the failure of the original controller that is connected to the rear of one of my twin folding 80w portable panels. I like this set-up as it enables me to relocate them to catch the best sun. I recently had my auxiliary battery fail while away camping. It dropped a cell reducing the battery voltage to 10volt. While checking out the battery I checked the panel's output and found it fluctuating between 7 - 16volts. Not good, and obviously faulty and possibly the cause of the battery cell failure over time.
Taking your advice, and mounting the controller close to the battery would locate it under the bonnet, a place I thought would also be hostile for a controller due to engine heat, or are you suggesting that I locate it in the vehicle? Maybe I should make a small switchboard in the rear of my vehicle to mount the controller and run a red Anderson connector out the back for panel connection, similar to your's, might solve a lot of issues.
bazzaboy Mounting it under the bonnet with the heat there as you stated isnt ideal, but better then in the sun under the panel (solar is usually utilised when engine isnt producing heat). Mine however is mounted up above the glove box out of weather and heat, short distance through the firewall to battery. Even mounting it in the rear somewhere like on a cargo barrier or back of drawers or anywhere in the car (usually well less than 3m cable) is closer than the back of panels with the standard 10m solar panel lead.

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[sooty_10]

And yeah the cheap Chinese controllers are rubbish. Mine would never work from day one on the back of the panels, always overheated and failed. Changed to the fixed 75/15 regulator in car and the fridge now runs 24/7 @ -1°. Frozen water bottles stay that way for months.

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[jay see]

OK. I'm going to buy one.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2 F252996529182

What are your thoughts on this.

Is it over kill for a 140ah battery.

Thanks.

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[the evil twin]

Dunno... what size are you getting?
Solar Panel 'size' depends more on the load rather than Battery capacity.

I see the Reg is on the back of the panels which is the worst place it can be put (but they all seem to do it) other than strapped to the Turbo.

[Cuppa]

I know nothing of these panels, but at the price are worth a gamble. How many are you getting & what size?
Treat the reg supplied as a throw away item & buy a decent reg mounted close to the battery.
An example of load (as ET suggested):
If running a fridge freezer (only) which draws around 5 amps (ie. a 60l to 80l fridge) when running you would need 2 x 120w panels for full time use, (ie. more than a weekend), or 1 x 120w for Weekend use only. Assumptions are that you have the means to charge the battery to 100% before & after the weekend & that you don't have any other form of mobile charging (ie. dc to dc, VSR or gennie).

Any other loads (lights, radio, phone charging etc etc) need to be added in & solar input adjusted accordingly. So before choosing solar panel(s) work out what your loads will be. This is important, 'cos if you just get 'a panel' which can't keep up with your usage you will destroy your battery prematurely, plus it is exceptionally frustrating when relying on something which sees you 'chasing your tail' & worrying about killing expensive batteries, not to mention the beer getting warm & the milk going off.

[jay see]

Dunno... what size are you getting?
Solar Panel 'size' depends more on the load rather than Battery capacity.

I see the Reg is on the back of the panels which is the worst place it can be put (but they all seem to do it) other than strapped to the Turbo.




I know nothing of these panels, but at the price are worth a gamble. How many are you getting & what size?
Treat the reg supplied as a throw away item & buy a decent reg mounted close to the battery.
An example of load (as ET suggested):
If running a fridge freezer (only) which draws around 5 amps (ie. a 60l to 80l fridge) when running you would need 2 x 120w panels for full time use, (ie. more than a weekend), or 1 x 120w for Weekend use only. Assumptions are that you have the means to charge the battery to 100% before & after the weekend & that you don't have any other form of mobile charging (ie. dc to dc, VSR or gennie).

Any other loads (lights, radio, phone charging etc etc) need to be added in & solar input adjusted accordingly. So before choosing solar panel(s) work out what your loads will be. This is important, 'cos if you just get 'a panel' which can't keep up with your usage you will destroy your battery prematurely, plus it is exceptionally frustrating when relying on something which sees you 'chasing your tail' & worrying about killing expensive batteries, not to mention the beer getting warm & the milk going off.

I was looking at the 200w.

We are caravan park camping (unpowered) for 4 days. Power consumption will be the usual. Fridge (50l), some lights, charging some phones and gadgets. How much amps does charging a phone draw?

What I'm after is something that will put back into the battery what it has used the night before or there abouts.

I've also seen systems that use 10, 15 and 20 amp regs. What do I need.

I understand and agree with not have a huge panel. Quite happy to have the smallest one as long as it works for me.

Only other form of charging is through a redarc solenoid type or a 240v battery charger once back home.

Apologies for the delay in responsing.


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[Cuppa]

Hi jay see
Phone charging takes 3/5ths of bugger all. Lights vary considerably depending on type. Of course lots of phones add up to more. :)

50l fridge will most likely draw 3.5 to 4 amps, & if being run as a fridge & not opened too often, will run around a 50% duty cycle. 42Ah to 48Ah each 24 hours. Unless you are running a bunch of Halogen lights 50 to 60 Ah's should cover your needs over the 4 days.

A 200w panel in perfect solar conditions at this time of the year will feed around 50 to 60Ah a dainto your battery, possibly a bit more, so you should be ok, even if the weather is not perfect you should have sufficient capacity to get you through the 4 days until you can recharge the battery at home.

For longer periods I would advise greater solar capacity & looking to the future it would be a wise move to buy a regulator with sufficient capacity to cover that now, rather than having to buy another reg in the future. If you buy a good quality reg they are generally capable of operating at full capacity & often a little over (cheap ones are the opposite). I would think that 300w of panels would cover you indefinitely year round for what you have said you want to run. 300w would manage with a quality 20 amp reg.

I suggest that a 200w panel is a pretty cumbersome & heavy thing to lug in & out of the car. My preference would be to use 100w panels.

My apologies for a delay in replying too. Haven't had any phone connectivity for a few days.

[jay see]

Hi jay see
Phone charging takes 3/5ths of bugger all. Lights vary considerably depending on type. Of course lots of phones add up to more. :)

50l fridge will most likely draw 3.5 to 4 amps, & if being run as a fridge & not opened too often, will run around a 50% duty cycle. 42Ah to 48Ah each 24 hours. Unless you are running a bunch of Halogen lights 50 to 60 Ah's should cover your needs over the 4 days.

A 200w panel in perfect solar conditions at this time of the year will feed around 50 to 60Ah a dainto your battery, possibly a bit more, so you should bee ok, even if the weather is not perfect you should have sufficient capacity to get you through the 4 days until you can recharge the battery at home.

For longer periods I would advise greater solar capacity & looking to the future it would be a wise move to buy a regulator with sufficient capacity to cover that now, rather than having to buy another reg in the future. If you buy a good quality reg they are generally capable of operating at full capacity & often a little over (cheap ones are the opposite). I would think that 300w of panels would cover you indefinitely year round for what you have said you want to run. 300w would manage with a quality 20 amp reg.

I suggest that a 200w panel is a pretty cumbersome & heavy thing to lug in & out of the car. My preference would be to use 100w panels.

My apologies for a delay in replying too. Haven't had any phone connectivity for a few days.

Thanks Cuppa no need for an apology.

The folding panels all seem to be the same lengths, the height is what changes and not by that much about 100mm.

I'm getting a 200w folding panel and will upgrade it as suggested. As for adding more we'll see if we needed.

There won't be any harm in adding the 20amp reg now?

[Cuppa]

Look for a good brand of regulator.
Morningstar & Victron make good affordable ones .
Better to buy a good PWM only one than a cheap MPPT.

https://www.solaronline.com.au/victron-bluesolar-bsr20-20a-solar-regulator.html

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Morningstar-SunSaver-Charge-Controller-12V-20A-LVD-Generation-3/252259301045?epid=1050240610&hash=item3abbd376b5:g:Uk8AAOSwKQ9Z60MG

https://www.solaronline.com.au/victron-bluesolar-bsr20-20a-solar-regulator.html

Bypass/remove the reg supplied on the rear of the panel.
Change the supplied cable for thicker cable. You can determine what thickness (thickness of copper core in mm2) according to length from this table. http://hobohome.com/news/?p=581
Do not scrimp on cable size! It makes a big difference.

[jay see]

Look for a good brand of regulator.
Morningstar & Victron make good affordable ones .
Better to buy a good PWM only one than a cheap MPPT.

https://www.solaronline.com.au/victron-bluesolar-bsr20-20a-solar-regulator.html

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Morningstar-SunSaver-Charge-Controller-12V-20A-LVD-Generation-3/252259301045?epid=1050240610&hash=item3abbd376b5:g:Uk8AAOSwKQ9Z60MG

https://www.solaronline.com.au/victron-bluesolar-bsr20-20a-solar-regulator.html

Bypass/remove the reg supplied on the rear of the panel.
Change the supplied cable for thicker cable. You can determine what thickness (thickness of copper core in mm2) according to length from this table. http://hobohome.com/news/?p=581
Do not scrimp on cable size! It makes a big difference.Thanks again mate.

Should be going camping next weekend, but won't have enough time to change things around. Will do it before the Easter trip tho.

Have taken all on board.

Does doesn't there need to be a fuse between the battery and the panel right? Just a regular.

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[Cuppa]

Put a fuse between the battery & the regulator, as close to the battery as possible. It's purpose is to protect the wiring from getting too hot & causing a fire in the event of a short circuit. It's rating needs to be higher than the regulator's output so a 25 amp or 30 amp one will suffice in your case. Best not to use a standard auto blade type fuse, (they can become a fire hazard themselves over time when used in this type of situation). A manual resettable circuit breaker is a good idea as it allows for disconnecting the panels too. Auto reset fuses/circuit breakers are a lousy idea as I found out recently. They can make fault finding far more difficult than it needs to be.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-24V-Car-Audio-Inline-Manual-Reset-Circuit-Breaker-Fuse-Switch-30AMP/332481119120?hash=item4d696b4390:g:2~EAAOSwoddaa~1 s
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30-Amp-Manual-Reset-Circuit-Breaker-Switch-Car-Boat-Fuse-Holder-Waterproof/322784071536?epid=2266782615&hash=item4b276e0f70:g:xhEAAOSwL5BZyiLr

No fuse required between panels & regulator.