Battery cooked?

[snicko]

Just had the 4bee serviced and my mechanic said the second battery took 2 litres of water!!!....and is
dead!!!
No wonder the fridge stopped. I should have looked into it a bit better but cheated and just put the fridge on to the solar panel battery.
Anyway do I have a possible electrical problem ?

[Finly Owner]

Not necessarily, did you have on charging system? was it connected to fridge and draining?

[YNOT]

Over charging is the most likely cause of your battery boiling dry.
Different types of batteries like different maximum charge voltages so it's possible that you have an alternator outputting on the high end of what is considered normal (13.8 to 14.7 volts) and that was too high for your second battery.
I would take your car to a reputable battery supplier and discuss it with them. If they are any good they will check your charge rate and advise from there.

Tony

[big_fletch]

Over charging is the most likely cause of your battery boiling dry.
Different types of batteries like different maximum charge voltages so it's possible that you have an alternator outputting on the high end of what is considered normal (13.8 to 14.7 volts) and that was too high for your second battery.
I would take your car to a reputable battery supplier and discuss it with them. If they are any good they will check your charge rate and advise from there.

Tony

X2 I agree with Tony

[snicko]

Ok thanks guys. Will post how I get on.

[snicko]

Today I spoke to the service manager and asked him how a maintance free battery would take 2L of water?? He had his info wrong. It was the main crank battery that took the 2L of water!!! and only just passed the test. With winter coming on a new battery is the go. Where did all the water go???
The second battery is the dead one. Another new one!

I noticed the fridge wasnt working and checked the fuse on the solar panel battery and found the fuse was blown.

If it dosnt rain it pours!!!

I still have to go to an auto electrician as the fridge is the only thing on the solar battery and the panel would not put enough into the battery to blow a fuse!

On going.....

[big_fletch]

Not good mate, let us know how you go with it..
I will keep watching this thread with interest.. What sized solar panels are you running out of interest?

[the evil twin]

Uuuummmm... something suss here.

Do you have a regulator on the Solar Panel and what size panel is it (wattage) ?
Have you had the Panel connected to all of the batteries at some point ?

[Silver]

it does sound a bit like the alternator is seeing the voltage of the dead battery, trying to charge it, and thus overcharging the starting battery - like when a battery drops one of it's cells - the dead one sits there, and the others bubble because the charger doesn't see enough volts

[Maxhead]

Sorry for th hi-jack but would a smart charger notice a dead cell???

[YNOT]

Sorry for th hi-jack but would a smart charger notice a dead cell???

It depends just how smart the charger is. At work I deal with a lot of Delta Q smart chargers (24 & 36 volt) and I've seen them boil a set of six 335 A/H trojan deep cycle batteries after one of the batteries dropped a cell. The batteries got so hot I couldn't touch them for 6 hours.

Tony

[Finly Owner]

It depends just how smart the charger is. At work I deal with a lot of Delta Q smart chargers (24 & 36 volt) and I've seen them boil a set of six 335 A/H trojan deep cycle batteries after one of the batteries dropped a cell. The batteries got so hot I couldn't touch them for 6 hours.

Tony
Holy crap!

[snicko]

Had the second battery fitted by "a Friend"!!

The solar panel sits on the front of the roof rack and was fitted by a professional.

For the last hour I have been looking for the receipt when the panel was fitted and cant find it so all can do is measure it 120 x 55cm

[big_fletch]

It depends just how smart the charger is. At work I deal with a lot of Delta Q smart chargers (24 & 36 volt) and I've seen them boil a set of six 335 A/H trojan deep cycle batteries after one of the batteries dropped a cell. The batteries got so hot I couldn't touch them for 6 hours.

Tony

I'll second that Tony, boiling batteries can be extremely dangerous.. Smart charges are very good however with a dead cell a lot of battery charges just see the battery as still flat, therefore putting more amps into it..
The battery will just keep getting hotter and hotter till something melts and shorts out possibley damaging the battery charger or battery blows up (which I have also seen)..
Most battery charger have a overload protection to stop damage from occurring to them, just remember when you have a battery on charge to keep it preferably outside in a well ventilated area and check it every couple of hours if able

[big_fletch]

Had the second battery fitted by "a Friend"!!

The solar panel sits on the front of the roof rack and was fitted by a professional.

For the last hour I have been looking for the receipt when the panel was fitted and cant find it so all can do is measure it 120 x 55cm

On the Bach of the solar panel it should Say how many watts or amps the panel is but sounds like would be between the 60-100w mark (5-8amps)

[snicko]

Uuuummmm... something suss here.

Do you have a regulator on the Solar Panel and what size panel is it (wattage) ?
Have you had the Panel connected to all of the batteries at some point ?

When the solar panel was fitted Oct 09 I got the guys to check the second battery set up.

They set it up that the solar panel puts charge into the third battery only. (Thumper Redback BADC)

Fitted is a PV Charge Controller SBC-7108 / 7112 / 7120 (Found the user's manual!!)

The alternator is to charge the main crank battery first then the second battery and if any left the third battery.

[Dark 1]

Fletch & Tony seem to have you sorted but i will add in my experience the pv controllers are absolute rubbish. I wouldn't use them as paper weights. What i've seen they allways over charge & give false readings. Good luck mate & keep us posted.

[snicko]

Fletch & Tony seem to have you sorted but i will add in my experience the pv controllers are absolute rubbish. I wouldn't use them as paper weights. What i've seen they allways over charge & give false readings. Good luck mate & keep us posted.

What would you recommend as a dodgie battery setup is the last thing you need out in the bush!!

[Dark 1]

Mate as to solar regs stick with the big names, morning star, steca, redarc, plasmatronics. I personallly use Steca in my car solar setup & the new van setup is having a morning star regulator. Batteries are funny things what works for some doesn't work for others. Only hints i can give are make sure your batteries are solar compatable, cables from solar to reg to batts are of decent size [6mm core minimum] & good quality componets.

Hope this helps bud & good luck.

[snicko]

I took the 4bee to a solar panel place and "assumed" like you shouldnt! that they would do the right thing by me. Thanks for your advice I will check out what I actually have and do some research maybe check on a forum!!!!!!!!

[the evil twin]

OK, now there is a bit more info... some more questions. How are the batteries isolated. IE do you have a Redarc or Isolating solenoid between the 3rd and 2nd batteries or 2nd and Cranker?

If the batteries can 'see' the Solar panel and you have a dodgy Reg then that will fry all the batteries over time if it is overcharging. I use Manson Regs on some of my low end Solar gear at work and they go OK and the one on my Camper (same as yours) cops a hiding and is still good. I use it as the Reg on Solar/Genny/ 240V Power so it is always working (Genny and 240 thru a Rectifier Pack obviously)

Tuf42 has obviously seen some issues tho so check it with a voltmeter if you can or get it checked if not. If it's OK it's up to you if you want to change it.

[snicko]

OK, now there is a bit more info... some more questions. How are the batteries isolated. IE do you have a Redarc or Isolating solenoid between the 3rd and 2nd batteries or 2nd and Cranker?

If the batteries can 'see' the Solar panel and you have a dodgy Reg then that will fry all the batteries over time if it is overcharging. I use Manson Regs on some of my low end Solar gear at work and they go OK and the one on my Camper (same as yours) cops a hiding and is still good. I use it as the Reg on Solar/Genny/ 240V Power so it is always working (Genny and 240 thru a Rectifier Pack obviously)

Tuf42 has obviously seen some issues tho so check it with a voltmeter if you can or get it checked if not. If it's OK it's up to you if you want to change it.

Yes there is an isolating solenoid between the main crank and the second battery but not sure between second and third.

We are going to Perth for Easter and when we come back its booked into an Auto Electrican. (New one not the one who did the orginal job!!)

I will ask him the questions that you have asked me and the others on this thread and I will let you know the out come so stay tuned!!

Thanks for your support and have a Happy Easter

[the evil twin]

No worries... have a great safe trip dude

[Bigrig]

Yes there is an isolating solenoid between the main crank and the second battery but not sure between second and third.

We are going to Perth for Easter and when we come back its booked into an Auto Electrican. (New one not the one who did the orginal job!!)

I will ask him the questions that you have asked me and the others on this thread and I will let you know the out come so stay tuned!!

Thanks for your support and have a Happy Easter

Good stuff mate, I hope it gets sorted and all the best to you and your family for a cracking Easter and a safe trip.

[snicko]

Up date...

At the last service I had the two new batteries fitted.

Yesterday I finally got around to getting the truck checked out by a sparky.
He checked the set up and said it was all working properly so the second (flat) battery was the cause of all the problems. - Thank goodness!

I am getting a gauge fitted that has both batteries in the one gauge so I can keep an eye from the cockpit, as to what happening.

Thanks to eveyone who posted replies, much appreciated.

Snicko

[Silver]

Up date...

At the last service I had the two new batteries fitted.

.... the one gauge so I can keep an eye from the cockpit, as to what happening.


Snicko

Wingwoman talk! Cool. Glad you worked it out!

[snicko]

Wingwoman talk! Cool. Glad you worked it out!

Off topic....My dash looks like a cockpit....hahah

[Silver]

Off topic....My dash looks like a cockpit....hahah

For the benefit of mortals, you being a Jedi and all presumably tune into the Force and have no need of dials and numbers :-)

[snicko]

I'm back

Three years later my second battery died AGAIN!!!!!!!!

I should have listened to you guys and just bitten the bullet and got the current system ripped completely out and a proper monitored system put in by someone who knows!!! (Not my mechanic) My bad..!

There must be something wired up wrong somewhere as like previously I had a cooked second battery and the fuse was blown on the solar panel battery........just like now!!! Grrrrr

[Sir Roofy]

Look up the redarc site there a helpfull lot and have lots of different types of
set ups, i set up a solar panel on thr patrol with the help of e.t and cuppa then steve at redarc

smoore@redarc.com.au

give them a go and you should be able to do it your self

[snicko]

OK thanks roofy I will give steve a shot ( Hi by the way! )

[Sir Roofy]

OK thanks roofy I will give steve a shot ( Hi by the way! )

hi back just explain what you want and he should get back to you in an hour or two

[Antpenny]

I have problems with my second battery in the GQ they seem to have a shorter life than the main battery and I'm assuming it's the extra heat from the turbo that cooks them but yours being a non turbo charged animal shouldn't suffer from that. Of course if there is an issue with one of the batteries it will effect the good one and you should have a voltage regulator on the solar panel and it's a good idea to put a solenoid between the main and second battery to isolate them automatically like the red arc unit if there is a fault.

[FNQGU]

Snicko, I might have missed some of your original post on this, but do you know what sort of temps the battery is getting to when your vehicle is being used normally? I ask because I was/am still, having battery temp issues on my Aux battery and Cuppa posted an excellent little table that showed the expected life of batteries when running at x temp. Mine gets to around 39 degrees Celcius regularly and according to the graph will probably only last me between 2-3 years. When working the vehicle hard in Summer, it gets up to almost 48 degrees C which shortens the life span even further. I know my battery temps because my battery monitor has a temp function, which not all do, but it may be a simple thing like running temp causing your issues perhaps??

[snicko]

Snicko, I might have missed some of your original post on this, but do you know what sort of temps the battery is getting to when your vehicle is being used normally? I ask because I was/am still, having battery temp issues on my Aux battery and Cuppa posted an excellent little table that showed the expected life of batteries when running at x temp. Mine gets to around 39 degrees Celcius regularly and according to the graph will probably only last me between 2-3 years. When working the vehicle hard in Summer, it gets up to almost 48 degrees C which shortens the life span even further. I know my battery temps because my battery monitor has a temp function, which not all do, but it may be a simple thing like running temp causing your issues perhaps??

Hi BenK

I am so over this battery problem....
I can not see why the second battery would keep dying when all it does is support the spotlights, UHF and HF radio. These things are used when the vehicle is running!! So it must be a wiring problem!!

We had a friend"who knew how to" wire up the second battery................sigh

[FNQGU]

Understood, and I sympathise mate.

Is this second battery in the engine bay, close to a turbo by any chance? Heat can kill the buggers faster than anything else too.

[snicko]

Understood, and I sympathise mate.

Is this second battery in the engine bay, close to a turbo by any chance? Heat can kill the buggers faster than anything else too.

I have a GU and its on the other side to the main battery and yes there is a turbo. (Does a blingy intercooler count?? I have one of these too!)

Seriously though can a shield be mounted to help keep the battery cool?

[FNQGU]

I dunno mate. My setup is a bit different with the Chev as my Aux battery is underneath the vehicle but beside the bloody exhaust!

I don't even know how close to the turbo yours is, but you can put a turbo heat shield on mine, not sure about yours. Others on here might know more about the usual setup and proximity to turbo causing issues. Just thought i'd chuck it in as a possible issue!

[snicko]

I dunno mate. My setup is a bit different with the Chev as my Aux battery is underneath the vehicle but beside the bloody exhaust!

I don't even know how close to the turbo yours is, but you can put a turbo heat shield on mine, not sure about yours. Others on here might know more about the usual setup and proximity to turbo causing issues. Just thought i'd chuck it in as a possible issue!

Thanks mate
All the advise I can get the better. Something is happening so I will get it checked out as well - Thanks

[snicko]

Look up the redarc site there a helpfull lot and have lots of different types of
set ups, i set up a solar panel on thr patrol with the help of e.t and cuppa then steve at redarc

smoore@redarc.com.au

give them a go and you should be able to do it your self

Hi Roofy
Sent Steve an Email and he put me onto an Auto Electrician in Adel so we are doing a 1400km round trip to get the batteries sorted and our chip mapped (dont ask!) on the weekend.

Will let you know the outcome.

[Sir Roofy]

hi roofy
sent steve an email and he put me onto an auto electrician in adel so we are doing a 1400km round trip to get the batteries sorted and our chip mapped (dont ask!) on the weekend.

Will let you know the outcome.


snicko thats a long way to rewire the camper dont know any thing about chips
except in the packet hope you get it sorted this time

cheers