Our first real go at a snatch recovery

[growler2058]

This was the first time snatching in a proper stuck situation, we had practiced before but not to this extent. The recovery points used are from rated shackles and everyone is kept back past the length of the strap. I rekon if we had a bigger run up from the start we probably would have got out first shot.

CLICK IMAGE TO PLAY

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z428/GrowlersGQ/th_stucksandyhollows007.jpg (http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z428/GrowlersGQ/?action=view&current=stucksandyhollows007.mp4)

[Bigrig]

This was the first time snatching in a proper stuck situation, we had practiced before but not to this extent. The recovery points used are from rated shackles and everyone is kept back past the length of the strap. I rekon if we had a bigger run up from the start we probably would have got out first shot.

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z428/GrowlersGQ/th_stucksandyhollows007.jpg (http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z428/GrowlersGQ/?action=view&current=stucksandyhollows007.mp4)

Yep, that looks stuck!!

[Maxhead]

I can't look at that!!!!! nooooo

[AB]

Very stuck mate.

You may want to tell people when you put these vids up that they are actually videos...Ive been caught out with Photobucket videos thinking they are just pictures but they are actually videos.

[growler2058]

I can't look at that!!!!! nooooo

Bumma I k ow it looks bad but cause ol m8 got a cruiser he's to scared of bustin something so I gotta go first and test the waters so to speak hhahahaha

[Maxhead]

Bumma I k ow it looks bad but cause ol m8 got a cruiser he's to scared of bustin something so I gotta go first and test the waters so to speak hhahahaha

Yeah, I thought so...bloody cruiser drivers . Good to see the troll testing the waters/mud.....
I just don't like to see them being pulled out by the ...you know what...lol

[growler2058]

Yeah, I thought so...bloody cruiser drivers . Good to see the troll testing the waters/mud.....
I just don't like to see them being pulled out by the ...you know what...lol

That's not the towball it's a rated recovery hitch or do you mean the C word haha

[Maxhead]

That's not the towball it's a rated recovery hitch or do you mean the C word haha
Yeah, I meant the dirty C word....lol

[growler2058]

Yeah, I meant the dirty C word....lol

Mate shocking hay and by the time I was out there was a good size audience and Tony who owns the joint is full on cruiser rekon I didn't cop a sh-t stir when we got back up the Tavern hahahaha told ol m8 he's gotta use his b@lls and go first next time

[Finly Owner]

growler, where is your dampner?????????

[nowoolies]

not being too rude mate you dont have a line damper in place and your snatch strap is twisted, good way to break em hay
but good to see you let a toymota driver have a play at pullin a real rig outta mud next time dont keep drivin forward on him hahahahahahahaah

[growler2058]

growler, where is your dampner?????????


not being too rude mate you dont have a line damper in place and your snatch strap is twisted, good way to break em hay
but good to see you let a toymota driver have a play at pullin a real rig outta mud next time dont keep drivin forward on him hahahahahahahaah

I hear ya fellas, and wont make excuse, however thats exactly why we kept everyone well back from the vehicles. The twist we discussed after watchin and wont happen again.

BTW ive got a heap of hessian sacks in the back now for using as dampner

[macca]

Growler, you did that text book (except for twist and damper, if things were getting worse you wouldn't worry about them, even though you should.)

I mean you progressively increased the momentum of the tow vehicle instead of going bull at a gate first up and creating bigger problems.

Thats the way I was taught and have done many times, towing or being towed.

If you got stuck you were giving it a go, campfire talk is allways of the tough bits or recoveries not the graded tracks

The other bloke may as well drive the black top letting you blaze the trail all the time LOL

Pretty damn good vid of how its done

Macca

[growler2058]

Cheers Macca, me ol m8 has promised to have a bloody go next time we out an about it'll be the border track and i know where there are some deep holes there that i can lead him astray into hahahahaha

[growler2058]

deleted me own double message der

[rkinsey]

Thanks Growler for the vid.

I havent had a chance to use my winch or do a recovery yet. I'm still learning, and videos like this one and all the comments along with it teach "L" platers like me of what not to do.

One question though if I may? Laying the snatch strap down in an "S" pattern between the vehicles prevents snags/knots correct?

Thanks also for the tip on the dampner fellas. I thought the dampner was only used on the winch cable. Every video I have seen using a snatch strap, no one uses a dampner. I will from now on.

Cheers,

Rob

[DX grunt]

Thanks Growler for the vid.

I havent had a chance to use my winch or do a recovery yet. I'm still learning, and videos like this one and all the comments along with it teach "L" platers like me of what not to do.

One question though if I may? Laying the snatch strap down in an "S" pattern between the vehicles prevents snags/knots correct?

Thanks also for the tip on the dampner fellas. I thought the dampner was only used on the winch cable. Every video I have seen using a snatch strap, no one uses a dampner. I will from now on.

Cheers,

Rob

Can't remember the principle behind the 's' in the snatch strap, but that's the way I was taught, too.
I'll be using a damper from now on. too. I've seen too many vids of late, with dangerous things happening.
I used to use a wet hessian bag, but now I've got a 'bought' damper.

Not worth the risk.

[growler2058]

Thanks Growler for the vid.

I havent had a chance to use my winch or do a recovery yet. I'm still learning, and videos like this one and all the comments along with it teach "L" platers like me of what not to do.

One question though if I may? Laying the snatch strap down in an "S" pattern between the vehicles prevents snags/knots correct?

Thanks also for the tip on the dampner fellas. I thought the dampner was only used on the winch cable. Every video I have seen using a snatch strap, no one uses a dampner. I will from now on.

Cheers,

Rob

Gday Rob, thanks for your comments, I believe the "S" is to stop konts and bundles from occouring and as mentioned we should have lay it out to remove any twists. It also gives you a bit of a run up so to speak. you wouldnt use as a tow rope as its the forces of inertia that a snatch relies on, and using as a tow rope will cause the snatch to stretch and loose its elasticity. I dont recall seeing too many snatches in vids I have watched using a dampner either however i think its a "best practice" situation to use some form or dampening, just in case it breaks. You definately cant be over safe when two 3ton vehicles are creating such forces. Hope that answers for you....Have a ball out there mate and remember if ya dont get stuck ya aint tryin hard enough!! HAHAAH

[macca]

There really is some energy stored in the strap, if it pulled a recovery point off it could be real bad. A damper is a good idea.
As for the loop we allways put it where the recovered vehicle can see it so they can see when the action starts. Not allways possible but if we can we do it.
A bigger loop or S for more energy transfered
Of course we also all have UHF to com between the 2 vehicles, radio silence for everyone else
Macca

[the evil twin]

At the risk of inciting a riot...
The "damper" mechanics or physics if you prefer are different between a Winch Cable and a Snatchie so I believe what applies to one doesn't necessarily appply to the other.

The damper on a winch cable is to defuse the energy in the cable if a point fails or the longer section of cable if the cable snaps. The ability of the cable to release the energy is a slow process compared to a snatch strap and the entanglement of the damper and intrinsic weight of the cable also get it onto the ground pretty quick.

Snatchies have the slingshot effect and by design are extremely efficient at transferring force to the end of the strap. When a point fails the energy is transferred VERY quickly into what ever object is left on the Snatch Strap. That is why it is MUCH more preferable NOT to use shackles in a snatch recovery. Hook style recovery points or similar are the go if you have them, still bl00dy dangerous tho.

IMHO a Snatch Recovery has heaps more potential danger than winching because the efficiency of damping is significantly less. Lets say a shackle and recovery plate rip out of a vehicle for whatever reason. That lump of metal is going to depart with maximum energy and acceleration and the damper will have no effect until the object has flown past the damper and taken up the slack which is usually about the same time it arrives at the other vehicle so a damper in the middle of the cable doesn't provide a terrible lot of protection.

Another consideration is this. The weight of any damper lying on the ground near the centre of the strap will be flung upwards as the strap takes up. So at the moment of maximum force when the system is liable to fail the weight of the damper is negated as it is still heading skywards.

Sooooo (dare I say it) in light Snatch recoveries I do not necessarily use a damper (I can hear the intake of breath already) BUT in heavy ones I advocate the use of two. One at each end close to the vehicles. 1/4 filled sand bags are perfect

[Finly Owner]

My understanding of dampner is to slow the strap from whipping back to the "watcher" even when he is at safe distance doing the calling. And yes I ahve also heard of placing on on each end near the recovery points to increaese some resistance in air to make it fall when things go wrong.

And BTW, I do think Growlers recovery was done very well.

Tim

[nowoolies]

At the risk of inciting a riot...
The "damper" mechanics or physics if you prefer are different between a Winch Cable and a Snatchie so I believe what applies to one doesn't necessarily appply to the other.

The damper on a winch cable is to defuse the energy in the cable if a point fails or the longer section of cable if the cable snaps. The ability of the cable to release the energy is a slow process compared to a snatch strap and the entanglement of the damper and intrinsic weight of the cable also get it onto the ground pretty quick.

Snatchies have the slingshot effect and by design are extremely efficient at transferring force to the end of the strap. When a point fails the energy is transferred VERY quickly into what ever object is left on the Snatch Strap. That is why it is MUCH more preferable NOT to use shackles in a snatch recovery. Hook style recovery points or similar are the go if you have them, still bl00dy dangerous tho.

IMHO a Snatch Recovery has heaps more potential danger than winching because the efficiency of damping is significantly less. Lets say a shackle and recovery plate rip out of a vehicle for whatever reason. That lump of metal is going to depart with maximum energy and acceleration and the damper will have no effect until the object has flown past the damper and taken up the slack which is usually about the same time it arrives at the other vehicle so a damper in the middle of the cable doesn't provide a terrible lot of protection.

Another consideration is this. The weight of any damper lying on the ground near the centre of the strap will be flung upwards as the strap takes up. So at the moment of maximum force when the system is liable to fail the weight of the damper is negated as it is still heading skywards.

Sooooo (dare I say it) in light Snatch recoveries I do not necessarily use a damper (I can hear the intake of breath already) BUT in heavy ones I advocate the use of two. One at each end close to the vehicles. 1/4 filled sand bags are perfect

not trying to sound to fussy but.................one should not place a line damper on the middle of a snatch strap, that is totally usless and takes the sting out of the strap on recovery.
but place a line damper on one third of either end, using two line dampers on a snatch recovery should be in my humble opinion the mandatory way to do this sort of recovery , if the strap should break either end you have some form of back up.

putting a "s" in the strap will assist in stopping knots and debris pick up ,and keep the strap flat, no twists in the strap at all, and DONOT use a bridal in snatch recovery .
i have done a few recoveries using this method and it work`s fine

last but not least as Evil says absolutly NO shackles should be used in a snatch recovery AT ALL, thats a quick way to die .............

[GUte]

last but not least as Evil says absolutly NO shackles should be used in a snatch recovery AT ALL, thats a quick way to die .............


So am I better off installing recovery hooks rather than points?
An awful lot of people have installed recovery points that require the use of shackles to secure the snatch strap to the vehicle, which I thought was acceptable?

[nowoolies]

So am I better off installing recovery hooks rather than points?
An awful lot of people have installed recovery points that require the use of shackles to secure the snatch strap to the vehicle, which I thought was acceptable?

no i would not use a recovery hook at all, slight bit of slack on the strap and it falls off .

i have shackles both ends of my bus but if im doing a snatch recovery they come off before i start
always snatch from the rear

use your locking pin that holds your towball in place

take out the tow point, and insert the loop off the strap and replace the pin , through the tow hitch and through the loop off the strap
then your ready to start
on the vehicle thats to be recovered i put the strap through the bull bar down low , or around the bull bar ,for front on recovery.
before attaching to the vehicle thats doing the recovery ,
or if as mostly done, use the tow point of the other vehicle , the same way as setting up on the recovery vehicle , as most recovery seems to be pulling backwards , and dont forget your line dampers x 2 one either end i set them at approx one third off both vehicles.
hope this makes some sorta sence

[Silver]

I've seen the 'Barefoot Bushman' completely remove an alloy bullbar from a bogged hilux with a snatch strap - on TV of course.

I wonder if the issue is really that we have all gone from 2000kg straps, to 4,000, then 6,000 and now I believe they can be obtained at 12,000.

In some ways I'd rather break a weaker strap then have a stronger one, say the 12 tonner, or maybe one of the others, reef a recovery point out, or a bull bar off, and then launch it at the tow vehicle. I'm sure being belted with the nylon strap would be pretty damaging, but a lot less than a chunk of metal as well

[the evil twin]

I've seen the 'Barefoot Bushman' completely remove an alloy bullbar from a bogged hilux with a snatch strap - on TV of course.

I wonder if the issue is really that we have all gone from 2000kg straps, to 4,000, then 6,000 and now I believe they can be obtained at 12,000.

In some ways I'd rather break a weaker strap then have a stronger one, say the 12 tonner, or maybe one of the others, reef a recovery point out, or a bull bar off, and then launch it at the tow vehicle. I'm sure being belted with the nylon strap would be pretty damaging, but a lot less than a chunk of metal as well

Yep... they sure are an efficient force multiplier aren't they.

and... totally agree that the sizes available lead to issues as well so just an FYI for anyone who wasn't aware...

The snatch strap rating should be no more then 3 times the weight of the lighter vehicle (not necessarily the bogged one... unless that is the lighter one). So in the case of Dogman who likes getting recovered by Suzuki's a 2,000Kg is prob what he should carry.

Anyway, apart from Doggydude, the rest of us should prob have a 6 or 8 K strap as just like you I would MUCH rather a strap break than re-invent the concept of field artillery.

[the evil twin]

There will be 101 differing opinions on recoveries and I don't get bent out of shape about anyone elses opinions to much. The bottom line becomes if both parties are happy then that is the method to go with. If one party isn't then reassess the rigging.

As I stated, my OPINION for snatchies is...

First, Use the snatch as a last option as it is the most intrinsically dangerous.

Second, ALWAYS, ESPECIALLY if in Mud or anything that has a significant suction effect, spend a little bit of sweat to dig out at least some of the material that has mired the vehicle, just a couple of spade fulls from in front of the wheels will break the suction and/or ease the path greatly reduce the forces required. Actually that is a pet hate of mine when people won't 'prep' the mired vehicle properly for a recovery and just jump out and strap on a rope/winch/snatchie.

If you choose to use a snatch as the recovery method
Hooks not shackles if at all possible and absolute minimum of metal bits in the rigging. If you think the strap will fall off a bit of string, eleccy wire, even a rubber band can be used to mouse it onto the hook
Inspect the strap as you lay it out, no twists, start with one small "S" of about 1 metre, increase if required if the first attempt fails.
Two dampers no more than 1/3rd the distance from the vehicles but the closer to the vehicle the better
If you use a bridle attach it as you would if joining two straps
Avoid using a Bullbar as an attachement point unless an absolute last resort. (It was what, less than 6 months, since that girl was killed in Qld when the Bar let go during a snatch)
Consider raising the bonnet on any vehicle facing the strap if its a gnarly recovery

Now many people may disagree with the above and thats cool (and there are other things like getting bystanders away blah blah)... but, like I said, the above is what makes me comfy. If it doesn't work for others then no worries. Bottom line is if I am not happy with your method I won't do it and I offer others the same rights no questions about it

[AB]

Good idea with the bonnet up too!

[macca]

Good idea with the bonnet up too! agree as well!!

Evil great to mention that, took some new club members through our pre trip training they have to do a few weeks ago, they were very much in favour of the "bonnet up" when told of what can go wrong.

Good call

Macca

[Silver]

The bloke who ran the course we did at Kooralbyn looped his bridle from recovery point to recovery point, it had some old 2 1/8" fire hose ok ok 68mm, :-) running loose in the centre to protect the bridle - he ensured it was under the looped end of the snatch strap - ie, in the centre of the bridle.

I think I'll be looking for a webbing bridle, as the thought of my current couple of metres of 10mm graded chain flying through the air is a bit disconcerting.

However, I first need to get a second recovery point for my GQ - had two at each end on my old MQ.

Agree 110% with putting sufficient thought, then preparation into a recovery before getting into action with straps or winches. When one uses a hand winch, as I do, less time on the handle is good!

[nowoolies]

i might add ill only use a snatch strap if i cant get it out with the winch

[damianovdd]

Yeah, I thought so...bloody cruiser drivers . Good to see the troll testing the waters/mud.....
I just don't like to see them being pulled out by the ...you know what...lol

I think he has flipped the video backward... Here the true story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUO1YbW4XWk

lol

[AB]

ROFL...haha

Well done mate, thats how the video actually went..haha

[AB]

I'm in need of some recovery points next week for the new beast so i'm assuming to start fresh and do it right would a tow hitch hook be the way to go for the rear?

What about the front?

What is the best / safest system for the front?

Just an example pic below of what system I'm talking about


http://www.wooders.com.au/images/images/11237.01.jpg

[Finly Owner]

I am now getting Pi55ed off! I go to club and buy towbar fitting with Bow shackle especially for Snatch Recoveries, and am being told to avoid shackles all together. After it being said on here at earlier times and threads Rated Bow shacles ok in recovery. Have good Snatch strap and have only been advised to use one dampner although have heard to use two before. Recovery points, hooks are really confuseing me now!

No wonder people are getting killed?! We are getting to much conflicting advice on what's right and wrong in recoveries, between our clubs, training days, and forums, not to mention suppliers. Lets get a standard agreed to.

[AB]

I am now getting Pi55ed off! I go to club and buy towbar fitting with Bow shackle especially for Snatch Recoveries, and am being told to avoid shackles all together. After it being said on here at earlier times and threads Rated Bow shacles ok in recovery. Have good Snatch strap and have only been advised to use one dampner although have heard to use two before. Recovery points, hooks are really confuseing me now!

No wonder people are getting killed?! We are getting to much conflicting advice on what's right and wrong in recoveries, between our clubs, training days, and forums, not to mention suppliers. Lets get a standard agreed to.

I know, I'm getting a little bit lost too mate but it does come down peoples own opinions, etc.

Timbo, IMHO I don't think there is any severe danger with a shackle whatsover, it would just be if the shackle broke then you have a deadly metal object coming towards the other vehicle. I have never seen a rated shackle break. Ive seen one bend but not ever break.

[the evil twin]

I am now getting Pi55ed off! I go to club and buy towbar fitting with Bow shackle especially for Snatch Recoveries, and am being told to avoid shackles all together. After it being said on here at earlier times and threads Rated Bow shacles ok in recovery. Have good Snatch strap and have only been advised to use one dampner although have heard to use two before. Recovery points, hooks are really confuseing me now!

No wonder people are getting killed?! We are getting to much conflicting advice on what's right and wrong in recoveries, between our clubs, training days, and forums, not to mention suppliers. Lets get a standard agreed to.

ROFL... It's all good bro... There is no "right and everything else is wrong" answers. You avoid shackles "if you can"... If you can't, no bigee, just be aware that the risks have changed and the precautions you take may be different. EG if there are no shackles in a forward snatch I'll leave the bonnet down... if there are shackles thru no other choice I'll get it put up if it is a "heavy" snatch

There can be no "standard" cause as soon as you make one then something different will come up plus if you have a "standard" Darryl Dumbass will totally ignore any risk assessment, rig to the standard and wonder why it all went pearshaped

If you have to use shackles then use them.
If you can rig the snatch recovery without them then thats better.
If you have a hook use it, if you don't use the Hayman Reece pin.
If you get stuck will a rope or winch extension strap "assist" the vehicle out so a Snatch isn't needed?
If it is really boggged and all else fails or there is no winch or whatever then use a Snatchie but go carefully
If you don't like Bridles because you don't understand Sling Angle loads then don't use one
etc etc etc...

I teach the SES guys to stop, think, take a few deep breaths, then reject what you first thought of and think again and this time look at every resource (bit of kit) you have and choose/use what you have too to accomplish the job.

It is just a matter of looking at the risks and issues associated with the gear you rig up and take the appropriate precautions.

I don't possess Hooks either, I have a billet hitch (towbar adapter if you prefer) with a 4.3 tonne Bowie just like you. That stays there for attaching anything (IE rope, extension strap, snatch block, winch cable) but a Snatchie and when I need to snatch it comes out and I use the Pin

[the evil twin]

I know, I'm getting a little bit lost too mate but it does come down peoples own opinions, etc.

Timbo, IMHO I don't think there is any severe danger with a shackle whatsover, it would just be if the shackle broke then you have a deadly metal object coming towards the other vehicle. I have never seen a rated shackle break. Ive seen one bend but not ever break.

Absolutely AB... (opinions that is)

I've not personally seen a rated shackle totally fail either. Mind you they wouldn't want to. With a design factor of 7 a 4.3 tonne jobbie shouldn't break short of 30 tonnes unless someone hacksawed 1/2 way thru it.

I have always been curious about torsional loading tho from a twisted strap trying to straighten itself. I'd reckon even if it halved the rating the Shackle should still hold up

[the evil twin]

Growlers must be sitting back saying... "jeez, what have I started here"... ROFL

Now, who wants to start a thread on Bridles and Sling Angle Loading... surely we have a Rigger or a Craney on here somewhere

[growler2058]

Growlers must be sitting back saying... "jeez, what have I started here"... ROFL

Now, who wants to start a thread on Bridles and Sling Angle Loading... surely we have a Rigger or a Craney on here somewhere
HAHAHAHA Ive created a monster!! Which is exactly what it's all a out, get an open discussion going where everyone has input. In construction this is called a toolbox talk and it's where we can do a risk assessment and a Job Safety Analysis (JSA) or safe work method statement (SWMS). Basically assess all the risks and what can be done to minimise or mitigate the risk. Well done a good discussion by all bringing new ideas to the table.

[macca]

All this discussion is realy healthy, I've learnt a few other ways to skin the same rabbit. Keep it coming......

Risk assesing and working out what is the best & safest approach to the recovery with the gear you have is what we have allways done.

Just bought a reciever hitch, where would the weak points be in a snatching?

All I can think of is;
The rated shackle fail, not likely
Pull the shackle out of the billet steel, dont know
Shear the reciever pin in the towbar, dont know
Pull the tow bar off, not likely

Also we have used the tree trunk protector ar a bridle to halve the load on recovery points, there is a problem with that?

Once saw a TTP looped through a snatcum but the snatchum only was connected to the recovery point, the other end of the TTP was connected to another recovery point. If the 1st recovery point let go the TTP would stop it flying. They might have been using those tie down points and were adding some insurance, I guess you have to use what you have got.

Macca

[AB]

The rear hook on the rear bar is obviously not a recovery point but I just found this attachment below.

I thought that the hook is no good because it is not bolted into the chassis properly so why are people manufacturing these?

Or is it just the actual hook itself that is not rated???

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/luxa/RearBoltonBushHook.jpg

[Silver]

The rear hook on the rear bar is obviously not a recovery point but I just found this attachment below.

I thought that the hook is no good because it is not bolted into the chassis properly so why are people manufacturing these?

Or is it just the actual hook itself that is not rated???

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/luxa/RearBoltonBushHook.jpg

The Nissan GQ factory manual on this site shows the loop above the rear step as for emergency use for towing out of mud etc - have a look for the exact wording. That said, I don't know if snatch straps over 4000kg were in common use in the late eighties????

My MQ had the same bolt pattern in the same spot, but from memory the only metalwork was the bumper - and as the old girl now lives in retirement (!!!) on Fraser Island, I can't go and look.

[the evil twin]

All this discussion is realy healthy, I've learnt a few other ways to skin the same rabbit. Keep it coming......

Risk assesing and working out what is the best & safest approach to the recovery with the gear you have is what we have allways done.

Just bought a reciever hitch, where would the weak points be in a snatching?

All I can think of is;
The rated shackle fail, not likely
Pull the shackle out of the billet steel, dont know
Shear the reciever pin in the towbar, dont know
Pull the tow bar off, not likely

Also we have used the tree trunk protector ar a bridle to halve the load on recovery points, there is a problem with that?

Once saw a TTP looped through a snatcum but the snatchum only was connected to the recovery point, the other end of the TTP was connected to another recovery point. If the 1st recovery point let go the TTP would stop it flying. They might have been using those tie down points and were adding some insurance, I guess you have to use what you have got.

Macca

Hi Macca,

Great post about the TTP thru the Snatch to act as a restraint. Works a treat if you don't have a suitable damper. A short length of rope etc will also do the job

[the evil twin]

The rear hook on the rear bar is obviously not a recovery point but I just found this attachment below.

I thought that the hook is no good because it is not bolted into the chassis properly so why are people manufacturing these?

Or is it just the actual hook itself that is not rated???

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/luxa/RearBoltonBushHook.jpg

Nissan assign no rating to the factory rear recovery point and many people do not like the idea that the U piece is butt welded to the face plate. The mounting point itself is pretty bl00dy strong IMHO and as the Hook in your pic is rated to 4 tonnes then I see no reason why they are not suitable alternative to the Billet Hitch as the Towbar is is of a similar or lesser rating anyway.

[the evil twin]

Hi all,

Just as an FYI as we get more deeper into stress and load ratings. Bridles do not 1/2 the load on the recovery points. There is what is known as a "Sling Angle Loading". 90% of the time it is of no concern but is something to keep in the back of your mind if it is necessary to use a very short bridle or you are pulling at an angle.

Ever seen piccy's of dudes on sailing boats tensioning the sail halyards etc. They initially pull directly down on the line to get the most tension. Then they grab the line between the sail and the anchor point and pull at 90 degrees. This is because any tension at 90 degrees on a line between two anchors actually becomes a mechanical advantage. So the snatch or winch attachement point being at 90 degreees (usually) to the bridle attachments actuall allows a mechanical advantage so instead of say 1000 lbs tension now being distributed 500 lbs to each point it will be between 500 and 1,000 as the angle increases.

Rule of thumb... allow for the full stress being applied to the recovery points even with a bridle. This gives you plenty of leeway as the actual load is a trig relationship to the angle of the sling so if the sling was straight then the full 1000 lbs will go to each point, at 45 degrees the load on the points will be 700 Lbs and at 30 degrees the load will be down to 500 ish... as most bridles will give you 45 degrees or better Sling Angle Loading calling the load as 1000 lbs on the Bridle connection point is heaps of leeway but only IF IT IS A STRAIGHT PULL.

So why worry about it anyway... because IF it is not a straight pull then heaps of force is applied to the short side of the sling up to close to 100% (or 1,000 lbs in our example) to the attachment point and remember these are torsional loads not direct IE the sling is pulling to the side

OK , cool just use a long sling that gives you 30 degrees or less Sling Angle eh... well that then introduces another problem. The force only has to be slightly off centre IE teh other vehicle pulling at an angle to now get you back up to 100% of teh force on one point

Here is an excellent diagram to illustrate http://www.slingchoker.com/sling2/crosby/ix/ix249.htm

[the evil twin]

Hehehehe... anyone had a brain explosion yet?

Its no biggee really, but it shows the reason why so much gear has to be of a higher rating than would appear logical at first thought

[kingy]

Yes I just did thanks for the mess

[indigothecat]

I'm in need of some recovery points next week for the new beast so i'm assuming to start fresh and do it right would a tow hitch hook be the way to go for the rear?

What about the front?

What is the best / safest system for the front?

Just an example pic below of what system I'm talking about


http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/

Hi

I just went to an A.R.B sale and picked up a BushRanger "Tow hook with keeper" (http://www.bushranger.com.au/tow_hook_with_keeper.php) for the front and "Recovery hitch" (http://www.bushranger.com.au/recovery_hitch.php).

Recently found that trying to insert the snatch strap in to the slot where the tow ball has been removed from was not possible.
I was looking for a tow point that allowed shackle attachment (solid circle/hole type) so i could attach the shackle through the eye of snatch strap. After reading this thread i am rethinking?

I was taught that you applied gentle pressure to snatch strap when recovering a vehicle, or you 'take up the slack' in strap and 'let the strap do the work'. The rocket start to jerk the bogged vehicle introduces extreme conditions to the situation, increases chance of snapping strap. Stored energy in the cable plus slow momentum of towing vehicle assists towed vehicle to drive out. There is a video here of a pommy (no offense) land-rover drive who aggressively snaps winch cable and snatch strap in recovery of bogged Jeep, shackle flies in that video also.

Just two queries
What are peoples opinion (dare I ask) on the shackle point in this "Recovery hitch" setup? (note says only tow to capacity of tow bar)
The rocket approach seems like fun but does the hare bet the tortoise on occasions (ie slow and steady)?

[the evil twin]

That is what I call a Billet Hitch and is perfect for any towing, winching, anchoring etc. The rating of the Hitch and Shackle is usually well in excess of the Tow Bar rating which is why they say "don't exceed the towing rating".

The Hare method is why Snatchies were invented to be used. I suggest a 1 metre S to start to all my friends but the WA Police Manual which is what I am required to use when training says you start with 2 metres of Strap in the S and both vehicles in low 1st at 5 to 10 KPH for your first attempt.

The object of a Snatch Strap is as a "damped multiplier" to progressively increase the recovery force past that which a single vehicle can exert by harnessing the momentum of the front moving vehicle. You can do the same technique with a rope but one dude gets whiplash and the other dude eats the steering wheel.

Starting with a taught snatch strap doesn't really utilise the principles fully and means you are in two stationary vehicles immediately loaded up so may get mired yourself

[indigothecat]

Thanks T.E.T

I forgot to mention the slow low range start as you mention here. Most video's or real life situations I have watched people in high range really take off and 'snatch', 'yank' or 'jerk' the other party out of what ever situation. Probably why the older guys I knew called them 'Jerk straps'. :)

A little bit of a thread hijack for growlers71gq but this has be food for thought.

Thanks

J

[Finly Owner]

ET could you post a thread totally fresh on bridles what they are(pics) and what you are talking about angles etc?

Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassssssse?

Tim

[the evil twin]

ET could you post a thread totally fresh on bridles what they are(pics) and what you are talking about angles etc?

Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassssssse?

Tim

Hmmm... spose I could... you must be looking at a pretty boring Sunday if you want to read about Bridles and Sling Angle loads tho.

[Finly Owner]

Hmmm... spose I could... you must be looking at a pretty boring Sunday if you want to read about Bridles and Sling Angle loads tho.
I have to go to church 2 moro for christening of bro's 2nd daughter. and you have me intrigued.

[AB]

Ok, just went out and got this puppy after these discussions ready for Easter!!!

3619

[growler2058]

Mate, ive got the shackle set up and now the seed of doubt has been planted As a fat yella fella once said DOH!!!!

[timbar]

Ok, just went out and got this puppy after these discussions ready for Easter!!!

3619

is there a clip on that hook to stop the snatch or winch loop slipping off ?

[Darwin Bound]

Some interesting reading lol. In my own...as a bit of a country/bushy boy (I wont live in big cities but hold nothing against those that do :-)), one does not always have snatchies, bridles, shackles, hooks etc etc on board. I have only used a snatchie once and the guy pulling me stopped and it wrapped around the tyre to the point where the tyre had HUGE bulging points on it, maybe I need more practice with the snatchies (didnt stop me buying a 10,000kg one that has never been used lol). Bushy's do what they can with what is on hand, but tend to forget about safety. Working on mines it is always something that is paramount and something i try to get the older bushies thinking about...doesnt always work but haha.

You can be prepared for everything that you know of, but getting bogged is always a different situation each time so different safety issues always appear. So are the practicalities of getting un-bogged, so I carry 2 shovels and some boards if I am in doubt, and usally when I get bogged, I am on my own lol. Life always throws us curve balls, and I think it is no different being bogged.

I have been known to try and get bogged just for the fun of geting it out, in my younger days of course ;-)

[Timbo]

Timbar: No clip.. I bought the same one too.

You can get the clip ones and we looked at them. They are pretty useless imo. I bent the clip back to simulate putting the snatchy on the hook and the clip stayed bent! lol!

You could fashion your own clip very easily if you wanted too but as Evil Twin said.. you can just use some elec tape, string, lacca band, a shoelace even.. just to keep it on the hook. (not to firmly attach it or anything)

[melts]

more food for thought, how'd you go about washing your snatch strap? we through ours into the washing machine for a spin, seemed to work a charm :P just only use soap, been told to avoid detergents, eats the elastic or something :o

[DX grunt]

3619

Plassy and Paul... We'd better be careful not to get our dresses hooked on that thing!

[growler2058]

more food for thought, how'd you go about washing your snatch strap? we through ours into the washing machine for a spin, seemed to work a charm :P just only use soap, been told to avoid detergents, eats the elastic or something :o

Washed it on site, threw it is the river then huing it out to dry then at home hit with hose until only clean water could be seen