New winch.

[outback]

I bought a Ridge Ryder 12000lb winch for just under $500 new.
Since I have a bit of spare time I decided to drop the 9500lb winch off and replace it with the new one.

The old winch had/has a wire rope. The wire rope is finally stuffed, few little ripples and at least one broken wire that is visible.

Since lack of grease in new winches tends to a common comment I decided to check it out.

Seems to have more than I expected.
LtoR: Gearbox end of winch body, gearbox, inside gear box
624076240862406


As far as grease goes the only one I can easily get locally is some LubriMatic Marine Grease. They say it's suitable for winches.
Any comments on this product?

The new winch install is straight forward as it can use the same controller and cabling. Just have to turn the gearbox through about 90 degs and flip it so the motor is on the passenger side.

Next GVM upgrade..

[outback]

A bit more as the fun progresses.


The 9500 lb winch was a Ridge Ryder one. I have had it for about 4+ years.
I had over time been considering replacing it with a 12000 lb winch but the prices were a bit high for the wallet.

About 6 month back the Ridge Ryder 12000 lb winch came out on a special, just under $500. The existing winch seems to work well so for that price it was not going to be a huge loss if something went wrong.

S it is a couple of weekends back playing with some ground anchors at Peake I managed to drop the hand controller and severed the lead, and got a short circuit with the winch going into wind in mode. Stopped it quickly but that stuffed the wire rope on the 9500 winch. It has a few ripples and no doubt over strained so it is throwaway time for that steel cable.

Went to put a Supercheap Dyneema 12000 lb rope on the winch but it a bit big for the drum, rope diameter 10mm.

Anyway considering the 9500lb winch has not been off the vehicle since it was put on I thought it was time for a complete overhaul and just replace it with the new 12000lb one.

The 12000lb winch just connects up to the existing electrics so no big change here yet.

Ok new winch.
Pulled off the gearbox and stripped it out. Cleaned out old grease. At first I did not think there was much grease in there. Very wrong!
They had packed the gears and inside quite well. Not that visible till the thing is pulled down.

Repacked it with LubriMatic Marine Grease. According to website:
"It offers superior corrosion protection in severe operating conditions and is ideal for use with winches, hinges, wheel bearings, and in many other uses"

Now to get the rope to spool correctly the winch has to be flipped, ie motor on passenger side and the gearbox rotated.
Just rotated the gearbox and ready to install it next week.

In the mean time the old 9500 winch is getting a new steel rope.
Steel rope with fittings is about $3 - $4 per meter vs 8mm synthetic $14 per meter.
Getting the steel rope from the local Nobles shop in town.

After new cable the winch comes off the vehicle and will be stripped to service.

Sorry not lots of pics as that lubrimatic stuff does not clean off easily and I am not getting it on the camera.

[MudRunnerTD]

8mm Synthetic rope is way to small. I would buy 10mm synthetic rope off eBay for you 9.5 every day. 30m is plenty! Too much even. For safety's sake every day a synthetic rope is easier to use.

You might consider a synthetic rope and a hitch receiver mount and you could use the 9.5 as a rear re moveable winch for the win. The synthetic rope will keep the weight down allot so easier to carry around.

My 2c

[MudRunnerTD]

For what it's worth I have broken 10mm synthetic rope heaps of times. 10 times at least, I have now gone to 12mm rope on my himount. Can't imagine swinging off 8mm rope!

[the evil twin]

For what it's worth I have broken 10mm synthetic rope heaps of times. 10 times at least, I have now gone to 12mm rope on my himount. Can't imagine swinging off 8mm rope!

Jeezus... 10mm Dyneema is, like, over 8 ton B.S.

Not that I necessarily advocate 8mm but I've not seen 10mm let go

[Winnie]

Jeezus... 10mm Dyneema is, like, over 8 ton B.S.

Not that I necessarily advocate 8mm but I've not seen 10mm let go
Do you need Darren to post the "bogged to the door handles, quad line pull" photo? Lol

[threedogs]

With your old cable if there are any bits not crimped take the best
part however long it is and get two eyelets swauged on each end.
Save throwing it away even if just for dragging logs around camp

30mtrs of dyneema wont break the bank imo

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dyneema-SK75-Synthetic-Winch-Rope-Cable-10mm-x-30m-12000lbs-Replacement-/271286006361?hash=item3f29e7f259:g:2RYAAOSwEppUO5p G

[the evil twin]

Do you need Darren to post the "bogged to the door handles, quad line pull" photo? Lol

ROFLMAO... that is why God invented shovels before he invented Dyneema

[outback]

OK...

Since to only rope here at home is Nobles I went there for the ropes.

The 8mm synthetic that I looked at is called Supermax. The 8mm had a breaking load of 6.7 t and breaking force of 65.7 KN.
The big issue with this type of rope being no sock for the rope that was on the drum so it will cop heat and abrasion.

They had a better product called Sipermax Plus. This has a a Supermax core with a polyester outer layer. Only problem was I would have to go to a 12 mm rope to get the same effect as the 8mm plain Supermax.

Either way it was getting well out of wallet range at present.

Putting wire back on was at present the most cost effective outcome.
That does not imply it will stay wire.

The 10mm synthetic rope I have should fit the 9500 winch provided it is spooled on under load. Doing it by hand left the last layer occasionally lightly touching the 2 tie bars at the back of the winch.

After getting the wire rope fitted etc., I may take that off and re spool on the 10mm synthetic and do that under load. Should fit properly.

I will then just pack the wire up with anti rust, etc. and store it for the day I need it, sort of, "just in case".


One thing I had considered with the smaller winch was to mount it on a cradle and have it as a rear mounted winch. Just have to work out cabling and how the controller will connect to the battery easily with out lots of bolt on connections when the winch is needed.

At present the next serious thing to deal with is be able to use both batteries when winching and also change the way the aux battery is charged.

I need to have both batteries charged together and when winching an auto connect so the winch uses both batteries.
I think Redarc has something on this but their wire diagrams leave a lot to be desired. Detail would help there.

Nothing simple.


Somewhere I read that both tigerz and Ridge Ryder winches were similar and came from here. Still to be proved as areal fact.

Ningbo LIFT Winch Manufacture Co., Ltd
http://www.china-winch.com/sdp/231637/4/main-1089983/0/Home.html
http://www.cnwinch.com/index.htm

Next OS trip might just pay them a visit. I am sure buying a winch plus extras there is cheaper than getting it here that includes shipping it back and GST, etc. Anyway Ningbo and surrounds looks like an interesting place to visit, still a bit rusty with the Mandarin though, not much better with Cantonese either.

[outback]

With your old cable if there are any bits not crimped take the best
part however long it is and get two eyelets swauged on each end.
Save throwing it away even if just for dragging logs around camp

30mtrs of dyneema wont break the bank imo

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dyneema-SK75-Synthetic-Winch-Rope-Cable-10mm-x-30m-12000lbs-Replacement-/271286006361?hash=item3f29e7f259:g:2RYAAOSwEppUO5p G

I don't have time to F about with flea bay.
I will look at saving some of the wire rope as 75% of its length is still OK.
The section near the drum was totally stuffed. Considering what occurred I wont be degrading the Supercheap winches. If it can grind on and damage a steel rope seems its not that bad after all.

[outback]

ROFLMAO... that is why God invented shovels before he invented Dyneema

True GOD did tell man to make a shovel so he could dig himself out of the sh!t he got into when not doing what his wife told him to do because SHE knows all :biggrin:

[the evil twin]

Simplest way?
Connect your winch to the Cranker
That way the Aux is only going to see about 1/3rd of the load if you even need it.
An SBI12 Redarc will do to parallel the batteries
Some of the other VSR's are rated at 140 to 150 amps
The heavy duty SBI12 from Redarc is rated at 200 amps as are a few others but they are quite expensive

[outback]

The 9500 was according to specs rated at 410 amps max load , (9500b)
the 12000 is rated according to specs at 430 amps max load, (12000b).

I have been running the winch of the aux battery but will change this.

I think it may also be smart to have both batteries as cranking batteries as well.

[outback]

I am getting a GVM upgrade so will look at doing the electrical upgrade at the same time.

Though not too happy re GVM upgrade as it means a 2" lift. I spend a lot of time on the highways and a lift sometime attracts the wrong "bluieish" attention .

[the evil twin]

The 9500 was according to specs rated at 410 amps max load , (9500b)
the 12000 is rated according to specs at 430 amps max load, (12000b).

I have been running the winch of the aux battery but will change this.

I think it may also be smart to have both batteries as cranking batteries as well.

Crankers or All rounders if you do a lot of winching

I don't run my winch (1200) or any winch at max load continuous.
If the winch bogs down I stop and either do some more digging or rig the pull to advantage.

Soo that means if you have a say 300 amp continuous load the Alternator will handle (roughly amongst friends) 1/3rd, the Cranker 1/3rd and the Aux 1/3rd
Those figures can vary wildly depending on state of charge, condition etc.

If you want the "sky is the limit" cheap and dirty option for current from the Aux put a start solenoid across the VSR and energise it for winching or starting.
If you want the neatest then buy a Redarc SBI212 or equivalent

[outback]

I have a nasty attraction to the policy of dig, i.e. shovel work, before doing any recovery.
I also dislike single line pulls and tend toward MA systems even if they are slower. Though to be honest never seen the benefit of a 3:1 vs a 2:1 + 2:1 = 4:1 system.

As far as battery is concerned I would like to sort that out as i run too much off the AUX and need to balance out the load a bit more but save the cranker for winching and assist via the aux.

[the evil twin]

Agree...

If a 2:1 is getting loaded up then 3:1 simple rig is a bit pointless when you can go 4:1 compound rig with similar gear
Mind you I haven't used a 4:1 in anger only in training as a demo for the students.
A shovel, driving assistance and 2:1 usually beats any bog

[outback]

Agree...

If a 2:1 is getting loaded up then 3:1 simple rig is a bit pointless when you can go 4:1 compound rig with similar gear
Mind you I haven't used a 4:1 in anger only in training as a demo for the students.
A shovel, driving assistance and 2:1 usually beats any bog

True ET but few don't even know how to do a 4:1 compound system. Many even don't carry enough gear to do a 3:1 pull.

[outback]

Well the 12000lb winch has gone back to Supercheap Auto.:eek:

Why? All simple it would not free spool easily. To get the rope off the drum under free spool it was a huge pull and very slow. Even with no rope on the drum it was almost impossible to turn the drum under free spool.

I put this down to the fact the winch has not been run at all.
Anyway repacked the gearbox, put in a new gearbox washers and rotated the gearbox to what I needed for the install.

During all this I noticed the gears worked well turned and had no restriction in movement.
I did note that the motor was stiff, very hard to turn. By twisting the shaft the motor shaft at the motor housing.

I then in a bit of web looking at a few forums discussing winches, I, found this YouTube vid.

tigerz11 winch problems
https://youtu.be/2gUCnIaFwFY

Seems the guy was having the same issue with his winch that is hard to pull the cable in free spool.
Made me think possibly something was wrong with my winch.

Anyway I had a chat with the local Suercheap Auto store and they said no it should free spool easily., so bring it in and we will look at it..
Went home pick it up, took it in. Since I am one of those people who accidently joined thei club, there was a record of my purchase on their system, less than 6 months old.
Response, winch stuffed how about a replacement?
Fine.
Checked replacement and it free spooled as expected.

Now new winch.:D

One issue, the new control box is different to the old ones. So now for a bit more rewiring and fitting of new control box. I might be able to keep some of the old wiring but it looks like a bit extra will have to be done.

All I can say is that the service from from the manager Rick at the local Supercheap Auto shop was great.:smiley_thumbs_up:

Also glad now I did join their club thing as I have no idea where the receipt for the winch is., the computer record at least proved I had purchased the winch.

[Lights]

Give Whittam Ropes in Melbourne a call. They have an Australia made rope at very competitive prices. Get yourself some 10mm. Assuming your low mount has a brake inside the drum, the only time it will really see any heat is if you are winching out so just make sure you use the free spool.

[Chubba]

True ET but few don't even know how to do a 4:1 compound system. Many even don't carry enough gear to do a 3:1 pull.

Any chance you boys could explain exactly what you mean here for us cumb dunts. Please.

[outback]

ET should be able to give you a nice write up on how a compound 4:1 MA system goes but here are some pics of systems.
62589

62588

[the evil twin]

Niiiice pics... much better than a thousand words.

I must highlight that I favour MA rigs to reduce the winch loads and power drain not to increase the "pull".
If a 4 to 5 ton winch (9,000, 9,500 or 12,000 Lbs) stalls out and won't pull your truck out or God forbid, rip the attachement points off your truck then you need to reassess the loads and/or do more shovel work.

Line speed in a 2:1 MA rig is technically halved but real world the reduced load means the winch will rotate faster.
This means you often end up with similarish recovery speed anyway.
The biggest win is for an electric or electro-hydraulic winch setup (not so much for PTO or mechanically driven hydraulics like the power steering jobbies).
Heat, current flow and power drain on the electrics isn't proportional and increases exponentially with load.

[threedogs]

I was going to get the TJM hydraulic but they talked me out of it
not sure why and ended up with a Warn xp9.5

[the evil twin]

Had a WARN 9.5 on my prev rig.
They tools who installed it didn't rotate the motor so the drain was at 9 oclock so it half filled with mud.
Pulled it down, new brushes, cleaned it up, rotated the motor and it worked gangbusters from then on.

Got an Ebay 12,000 on this rig, haven't used it in anger on a recovery yet, just a few odd jobs and so far so good.

Hyd advantages/disadvantages compared to Lekky?
Like everything it's compromises... personally I reckon for a few uses a year or as a 'just in case' then electric winch is the go.

[threedogs]

Agree and you can get 12,000LB winches now for under $500,
and as you stated if you only use it once or twice a year its a win imo.
Would be nice it Mr Nissan fitted a hand throttle or similar,
Used to love jumping out my other 4x4 and give it directions
everyone else wondering who the hell is driving lol
Idling on flat ground only

[the evil twin]

snip...
Would be nice it Mr Nissan fitted a hand throttle or similar,


Hehehe, yet another advantage of my '99 Ubeautute...

[outback]

Would be nice it Mr Nissan fitted a hand throttle or similar,


I am still not full convinced that a form of hand throttle can not be added to the flyby wire 3l Y61's
it would be a DIYS... Its a small matter of trying to link into the accelerator pedal some how.