How to install a nutsert without using the tooling

[AB]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/04/1.jpgA nutsert works on the same principal as a pop rivet.



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFh-gaRnzX6ojPOSmGAQx2oi8sBXAiMv54MTLTI0PiLCOH016qThe base of the nutsert under the panel your putting it in expands under pressure and locks it to the object.

Nutserts are great to use because they have a thread inside to bolt things to without needing to get underneath the object and try to hold a nut on, etc.

Perfect for fixing things to vehicle such as snorkels, etc because you don't have to remove the trim inside the A pillar or try to get in underneath the engine bay, etc.

This isn't the funnest job in the world and can take some time but if your doing half a dozen nutserts then this method works without buying special tooling.

Based on a 10mm nutsert.


Drill your 10mm hole into the object to nutsert to.
Using a 10mm bolt, screw a nut on the thread of the bolt followed by a washer hand screw the bolt through the middle of the nutsert threads until it comes out the other side.
Put the nutert with the bolt screwed in, into the hole.
Using vise grips or a spanner hold the top of the bolt head.
Using a spanner start to tighten the nut (clockwise direction) This pulls the nutsert up and expands the nutsert which will hug underneath the panel and lock it in......When it gets extremely hard to rotate the nut then thats it.
See below for rough diagram...

[patch697]

These thing leave a nice finish & I could go spastic with a box of them.....lolol

Thanks AB bloody good post.

[AB]

Forgot to mention...

On the outside of the nutsert there are grooves which are suppose to bite into the metal and to stop it from spinning.

Sometimes the nutsert can spin when you are trying to do the nut up on the bolt which makes me angry...lol

If this happens then you need to stop it from spinning whilst you do the nut up so try doing the following.


Hold the bolt on an angle to try and force it to lock in to the side of the panel
Take the nustert and bolt out....Hold the bottom edge of the nutsert with visegrips and do a few rotations to expand the nutsert a little bit and try again...This will make the nutsert a wee bit bigger and should bite in better....You may have to hammer the nutsert back into the hole again too.

[patch697]

Forgot to mention...

On the outside of the nutsert there are grooves which are suppose to bite into the metal and to stop it from spinning.

Sometimes the nutsert can spin when you are trying to do the nut up on the bolt which makes me angry...lol

If this happens then you need to stop it from spinning whilst you do the nut up so try doing the following.


Hold the bolt on an angle to try and force it to lock in to the side of the panel
Take the nustert and bolt out....Hold the bottom edge of the nutsert with visegrips and do a few rotations to expand the nutsert a little bit and try again...This will make the nutsert a wee bit bigger and should bite in better....You may have to hammer the nutsert back into the hole again too.


You might also try using 2 washers with a dab of grease in between them to give it a slip point.......... Don't know if it would work but worth a try.

[AB]

You might also try using 2 washers with a dab of grease in between them to give it a slip point.......... Don't know if it would work but worth a try.

Yes mate that would work on ensuring the bolt can pull up but I was referring to the actual nutsert spinning inside the substrate you are trying to lock it in to.

They sometimes spin whilst your are trying to force the bolt up when spinning the nut so you may have to reef the bolt to one side or take it out and expand it a bit and ram it back in to the hole and start again.

[Maxhead]

Wow...what a neat little beauty.
Thanks for sharing mate

[Sir Roofy]

and are these nutserts at the local hardware or bunnings ?

[AB]

and are these nutserts at the local hardware or bunnings ?

No Bunnings will not supply them...I highly doubht it anyway.

I would be going to a proper nuts and bolts company, maybe Mitre 10 but doubht it also.

Ebay Roofy ----> http://shop.ebay.com.au/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=nutserts&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[AB]

Don't forget to get velcro, foam or some kind of padding between the car and the bracket too.

[Sir Roofy]

Don't forget to get velcro, foam or some kind of padding between the car and the bracket too.

thanks mate will do

[patch697]

Yes mate that would work on ensuring the bolt can pull up but I was referring to the actual nutsert spinning inside the substrate you are trying to lock it in to.

They sometimes spin whilst your are trying to force the bolt up when spinning the nut so you may have to reef the bolt to one side or take it out and expand it a bit and ram it back in to the hole and start again.

Yeah got that bit & the reason why it happens is the nut on the bolt grabs on one surface of the washer in turn the washer grads the face of the nutsert & as you turn the nut the whole lot starts turning together which means your winding the the nutsert back off the bolt at the same time.....

By using 2 washers with a little grease in-between them should create a point of least resistance so in theory when the nut on the bolt grabs the surface of the washer & starts turning it, it should just slip against the second washer instead of turning the nutsert.

As I said though its only "in theory" & if you play with these things at work I recon you could test out my theory for me & let me know if it works......


Cheers Old mate.

[AB]

not bad old mate, not bad at all...lol...I'll have to try that out one day!!!

Makes perfect sense and I reckon it would work a treat!

[AB]

Roofy, if your going to use these for a snorkel then I'll get some for you we have buckets of these to nustert into poles.

remind me and I'll bring some nutserts, washers, split washers, torx bolts and torx key for ya too.

Remind me though, I have a memory like a kicked in fish.

Torx bolts are great, anti theft and look the goods!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/04/2.jpg

[Sir Roofy]

Your a true gentleman ab
it will put my brain in overdrive trying to remember what i have to remember lol

[AB]

Your a true gentleman ab
it will put my brain in overdrive trying to remember what i have to remember lol

Tell me about it, just shot you a PM for the list of things to remember...lol

[AB]

Good call mate not sure but they have been used on steel posts for decades with no rusting. Brass or nickel rings a bell but I'll have to double check tomoz

[Finly Owner]

Roofy, if your going to use these for a snorkel then I'll get some for you we have buckets of these to nustert into poles.

remind me and I'll bring some nutserts, washers, split washers, torx bolts and torx key for ya too.

Remind me though, I have a memory like a kicked in fish.

Torx bolts are great, anti theft and look the goods!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/04/2.jpg
So why can't you get nutsert tool? to use?

[Finly Owner]

AB why can you not get nutsert tool to use?

And yes roof rack on rally car was nutserted on with fabricated brackets. (mate did his own and, I din't know until recently what they were called).

"Specific Fasteners" Slacks Creek do carry full range of them.

Tim

[Bigrig]

Are nutserts the same as rivserts?? Sorry for the dumb question, but I know how rivserts work, and plan on getting one to attach the camera to the car (and stuff to the trailer) and generally just to add to my collection of 'man toys'!!! LOL

[AB]

Plassy, yes the ones we use are brass which is good.

Timbo, we do have nutserting tools but even those ones play up....They are cheap chinese ones we use and they constantly jam up. Sometimes the old trusty bolt trick just seems easier.

Scotty, Yes mate I think a rivsert is exactly the same as a nutsert....Tomarrrtos and tomayyytos...lol

[Bigrig]

Plassy, yes the ones we use are brass which is good.

Timbo, we do have nutserting tools but even those ones play up....They are cheap chinese ones we use and they constantly jam up. Sometimes the old trusty bolt trick just seems easier.

Scotty, Yes mate I think a rivsert is exactly the same as a nutsert....Tomarrrtos and tomayyytos...lol

Sweet!! Thanks - in that case, I'm getting the tool and some inserts this weekend!!!

[ripper]

Top thread Andy. Wanted to use some of these a while back, but the cost of the tool made me find another way to do the job.
Wish I'd read this back then.

[Bob]

very handy. Must go to my local Bolts & Fasteners to see if they stock them.

[big_fletch]

I missed this thread and don't know how.. Nutserts are bloody brilliant.. I use them at work all the time and make life a breeze

[Oka374]

If you want to buy a simple tool to fit them go to www.ovesco.com.au as they sell them as well as a full range of nutserts.
the hand tools will only do up to 6mm but the little bolts with a specially machined nut will do up to 10mm.
See here http://www.ovesco.com.au/products.php?catname=Threaded%20Inserts%20and%20To oling&cat=8&sub=32&subname=Threaded%20Insert%20Tooling under hand insert tools .

[cliff]

Trade tools have the gun, $55 and includes some rivnuts. Best buy for 2011!!!

[taslucas]

Thats great to know AB ive seen them used but did not know you could do it without the tool. Cheers.
The only way ive ever got a nutsert was when i slipped while getting over a fence!!!!!! haha I had to say it!!

[mattyh]

Thats great i didn't even know what the hell they were till i read this now i can put on my snorkel

[Turtle_au]

I've put these in by using 2 pinch bars.
put bolt in nutsert, first pinchbar flat end around bolt but not binding on thread to hold nutsert in place, second pinchbar curved end up under bolt head and levered against first bar.

[Rip'n'Shred]

Just reading this thread and clicked on the ebay link. i ended up finding a seller who had this in their ad. Hope it helps.


note i do not reccomend purchasing a tool to set these items as it is not nessecary a simple tool can be easily made just by drilling a hole in a flat pc of steel and using a bolt to collapse rivet nut into panel , I bought a rivet nut tool about a year ago and the thing is useless save your money i use a simple tool as described and i use my air ratchet it is the quickest easiest way


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA9fB3asSZU&context=C3c1f5a9ADOEgsToPDskLNgZ-OQDl1tG4v6v5hy5fS

[Boofa]

Helpfull stuff thanks mate

[ckhoile]

great post thanks

[sibbles]

great post, do you know an online seller that ships overseas, or better european seller :)

[Bigrig]

great post, do you know an online seller that ships overseas, or better european seller :)

eBay is your friend my friend!! lol

You can buy the tool and the nutserts themselves on eBay mate.

[Rhyso]

this is realy clever we have nutsert guns at work n all sizes but iv never seen this done without the gun
handy for when the gun breaks :)

[eliurquhart]

Heres another good resource for how to fit nutsets without a tool
http://www.carolinarovers.info/croc-stuff/tips/259-make-your-own-rivnut-tool

[kond]

Wow I never thought of that thanks mate

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

hey guys these also can be useful,

Great for pulling light stuff and when you need to grab 10mm+

Ramset hollow wall anchors, you'll need a gun to use them but bunnings stock them and that can be handy for sundays when nothing is open.

http://www.scrooz.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hollow-wall-anchor-install-13.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/08/47.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/08/48.jpg

[Bidja]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/04/1.jpgA nutsert works on the same principal as a pop rivet.



http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/The base of the nutsert under the panel your putting it in expands under pressure and locks it to the object.

Nutserts are great to use because they have a thread inside to bolt things to without needing to get underneath the object and try to hold a nut on, etc.

Perfect for fixing things to vehicle such as snorkels, etc because you don't have to remove the trim inside the A pillar or try to get in underneath the engine bay, etc.

This isn't the funnest job in the world and can take some time but if your doing half a dozen nutserts then this method works without buying special tooling.

Based on a 10mm nutsert.


Drill your 10mm hole into the object to nutsert to.
Using a 10mm bolt, screw a nut on the thread of the bolt followed by a washer hand screw the bolt through the middle of the nutsert threads until it comes out the other side.
Put the nutert with the bolt screwed in, into the hole.
Using vise grips or a spanner hold the top of the bolt head.
Using a spanner start to tighten the nut (clockwise direction) This pulls the nutsert up and expands the nutsert which will hug underneath the panel and lock it in......When it gets extremely hard to rotate the nut then thats it.
See below for rough diagram...

This thread is worth a bump. Thanks Andy

Did a google for nutsert fasteners for the install of my new 4" snorkel and this came up.

Will give it a go tomorrow.

[the evil twin]

The "nut, bolt and a couple of washers" works well for the most part and is really handy if you don't have clearance for a Nutsert Tool Head (or Rivnut if one prefers).

I tend to use a Nutsert Tool most of the time tho, esp on stainless... worth having of you use Nutserts regularly, not so much if you only do a couple on rare occasions.

[Bidja]

Agree best to have tool for stainless, actually ordered a tool today for just that (3-12mm range of Nutserts). All set up ready to go but have to wait until Friday for tool.

Need to do 6mm SS now, will give the nut and bolt method a go in a piece of scrap plate to see as the wait will get the better of me...

[mudski]

I bought a whole kit a while ago, with tool and nutserts. Have only used it a couple of time and found when pulling up the nutsert using the tool I have stripped the thread inside the nutsert. I think I haven't had the tool set right for the thickness of the paneling, but the kit came with instructions that are pretty much useless. So as of late I have just done it by feel with success.

Very handy item to have though.

[the evil twin]

I bought a whole kit a while ago, with tool and nutserts. Have only used it a couple of time and found when pulling up the nutsert using the tool I have stripped the thread inside the nutsert. I think I haven't had the tool set right for the thickness of the paneling, but the kit came with instructions that are pretty much useless. So as of late I have just done it by feel with success.

Very handy item to have though.

Yeah, the tools have quite a bit of leverage... on smaller sizes up to about say M6 its easy to pull the mandrel thru the Nutsert if you don't set the tool correctly or lapse into Schwarznegger Mode... goes off with a bit of a bang when it does too, eh :-)

[Bidja]

Yeah, the tools have quite a bit of leverage... on smaller sizes up to about say M6 its easy to pull the mandrel thru the Nutsert if you don't set the tool correctly or lapse into Schwarznegger Mode... goes off with a bit of a bang when it does too, eh :-)

Are you referring to the threaded bolt as the mandrel when setting the nutsert using nut/bolt/washers method?

Ah, read your post again and realize now that it is tool mandrel is what you said....been hot in the shed

[Bidja]

The "nut, bolt and a couple of washers" works well for the most part and is really handy if you don't have clearance for a Nutsert Tool Head (or Rivnut if one prefers).

I tend to use a Nutsert Tool most of the time tho, esp on stainless... worth having of you use Nutserts regularly, not so much if you only do a couple on rare occasions.

Did a successful trial set with 6mm SS Nutsert using the bolt / nut and washers method in a piece of discarded body panel (had sharp edges). Solid work to set it though-significant torque was req"d.

Patrol Pillar A, was a totally different story, the Nutsert just would not stop spinning, finally started to pull up, then with 2mm length to go the HTS bolt failed in tension(elongation) just above the adjusting nut and the Nutsert with broken bolt were captivated in the panel/pillar cavity. Was able to get my trim tool under the Nutsert flange and lock it from turning and unscrewed/removed the remaining threaded bolt shank. Nutsert remains 80% set in pillar and will finish off when tool arrives. Just have to wait for the tool. Plenty to do.

[MB]

Commercially these days in our little game we’re on pneumatic (exy priced) nut/riv guns but the old days found any and all methods really appreciated 2 x washers with grease in between prior to readying the serts for squishing [emoji106][emoji106]
EDIT: Preferably shiny SS slippery washers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bidja]

Commercially these days in our little game we’re on pneumatic (exy priced) nut/riv guns but the old days found any and all methods really appreciated 2 x washers with grease in between prior to readying the serts for squishing [emoji106][emoji106]
EDIT: Preferably shiny SS slippery washers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Grease is what I recon could have improved outcome. Used small new SS washers.

My set up was metal threaded Hx Hd bolt, first on was adjusting nut, 2 slip washer, a thread clearance nut, single washer then nutsert. The slip nut was just to provide support to assy and should not have been cause of failure. Tempted to try grease but might wait out for tool.

[MB]

If I recall correctly back then John mate, including all above good blokes tips and tricks like ours on the fly. Pretty sure we were happy using mild steel bolts and butchering their bolt threads each second tough sert. Probably a bad plan mate although piffing out MS bolts back then seemed to get the job done easy greasy and home [emoji106][emoji106]


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[Cuppa]

I've had an air hydraulic nutsert/rivnut tool like this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nutsert-Tool-Rivnut-Air-Hydraulic-Tool-Rivet-Nut-Riveter-Gun-Tools-Garage/273677200339?hash=item3fb86eabd3:g:JKkAAOSwbsBXmJZ E:rk:1:pf:0
for years now. Less than half the price now to what I paid & IMHO worth every cent if you have more than one or two nutserts/rivnuts to put in ...... & if you have one of these you will tend to find more uses for rivnuts/nutserts in your life.... I guarantee it! If you have a compressor you need one of these.

[Bidja]

Picked up a hand operated rotary nut loading structure with 8" handles (M3-M6), compact size but was handwork to set 6mm zinc plate low carbon steel nutserts.

/sydneytools.com.au/product/shotgun-snr8-8-heavy-duty-industrial-nut-riveter-kit

Had success but think air/hydraulic would be a big improvement. Thanks Cuppa

[the evil twin]

I have one of the above... aaand...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/M3-To-M12-Nut-Riveter-Gun-Mandrels-Rivnut-Nutsert-Kit-Blind-Rivetnut-Hand-Tool/303024707185?hash=item468dae1671:g:GgQAAOSwkelcPVu E
I find that this style hand tool gives the best results as it more easily keeps the Nutsert square and flush to the material and has better feel
Upside is it gets into deep recesses and generally seems to work better
Downside is the clearance needed above the hole but you can use the nut, bolt, washer system if necessary

Cuppas post is def the go for a workshop tho

[Bidja]

The M3-M12 above and good price($49), had ordered similar from syd tools ($79) but needed quick so picked up the 8" jobbie yesterday (post 51).

Syd tools below has full aluminium alloy head assy w/o separate bridge as yours.

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/shotgun-slhnr14-14-heavy-duty-industrial-long-handle-nut-riveter-79-pce-kit

Your larger tool as U linked above, does it set the 8-12mm (SS or low carbon steel nutsert/rivnuts) well?

[the evil twin]

Does M8 Ally, SS and Steel Nutserts no worries... M10 I've only done Ally and Steel... M12 I haven't done but I'd guess a 14 inch handle would be better than 12 but you can get some serious leverage, much more than the single hand jobbies, so should do it OK

FWIW i found that the small M3, M4 were the ones to watch and take the time to setup 'cause the tool has so much leverage... M5 and up you can feel the Rivnut take up so you can be a bit more rough as guts.

[Bidja]

Used the small jobbie and put 5mm low carb steel where safari snorkel use to fix against pillar A with dome hd SS to flash it up(yeah did feel set). The new 4" snork brkts to inside jam face (pillar A), used M6 steel but needed block of wood to rest one handle against and push on other but all sweet. Will buy a M3-M12 long handle jobbie for the shelf for next time. Thanks

[PeeBee]

I bought a Kinchrome jobbies from total tools when i did my SS snorkle for the A pillar connections - absolute childs play. It does up to M10 I believe which I think is fine as its only anchoring in thin sheet metal. This thing sure opens up the possibilities and makes the task look better and simpler - no more nuts in behind hidden areas etc. I reckon it should be in everyones garage as an essential tool, especially when so many of us are customising the vehicle.

[the evil twin]

Totall agree mate... I use 'em everywhere these days... Van, Cars, Boats, around the house