A club for you Vics

[BigRAWesty]

As just searching faceache and came across this on a free camping vic page

http://www.nissan4x4vic.com.au/

Poster noted they have their own grounds with play ground and camping spots.
Sounds like a nice addition.

[BigRAWesty]

But just read the fees.
$140 a year and $110 joining fee.
Wow.

[threedogs]

Thats cheap for club membership did it include a driver awareness couurse?.
The Nissan property is just up the road from the 500 acres TLCCV, both cubs share facilities
The Nissan club is well represented at the Cruiserkhana but yet to pull off a win, The interclub
trophy I think has been going to the Range Rover club. Mind you not many RR's in it, mainly Patrols and Disco's lol

[Clunk]

I wouldn't say that was cheap at all, far out

[relyimah]

Think I know someone in this club who was thinking about joining the jeep club given nothing is ever done / organised...
Disclaimer: I am note 100% sure this is the club but I do recall he said it was expensive for not much outcome

[threedogs]

membership and annual fee to the TLCCV are, joining fee is $280 and membership is $145 .
There are plenty of Patrol owners in the club. No Idea how the Nissan club run things.
@ Clunk see it was cheap,after all

[liftlid]

Can't see the point in joining the landcruiser club if you own a Nissan , unless you like fixing landcruiser's ?

[BigRAWesty]

Wow. Our local 4x4 club is $90 a year and no sign up fee.
But they don't have land. And of late do f-all.
Thus why I'm not in it

[threedogs]

Those prices were from April 2013, mind the TLCCV is one of the biggest 4wd club in Australia.
might have 800 paid up members at any one time, most dont stay at the club long .
they will join do the driver awareness course, maybe a few trips to gain some confidence then away they go on the big lap.
Not many young members most are 60 plus, if not all

[SG1]

We looked into the Nissan club and is still a possible consideration down the track, pretty sure it included driving training and people with partners them also, the membership for memory was for the whole family, reason we held of was not so much the cost of the annual membership but the cost of joining fee and annual membership together, still think its reasonable tho.

There property is not to far from where we are, really nice area.

[mudski]

Sign up fee's are just an excuse to wring more money out of you.

[mudnut]

$250 is fairly steep, but I bet a lot of it will go towards insurance and property upkeep. Too bad it's on the other side of the state from me. If you could stay at the property whenever you like, then it would be a bargain. Driver training is an excellent idea.

[BigRAWesty]

$250 is fairly steep, but I bet a lot of it will go towards insurance and property upkeep. Too bad it's on the other side of the state from me. If you could stay at the property whenever you like, then it would be a bargain. Driver training is an excellent idea.

Yes well if you intended to use it often then yea why not.
Say 20 nights a year at $10 each. Easy.
But the training as well I guess will be worth it as many trainers would probably charge $200 for a days course.
Still. It is a lot up front

[P4trol]

Can't see the point in joining the landcruiser club if you own a Nissan , unless you like fixing landcruiser's ?

Well, do you like being popular? What about being the official tow vehicle?

[Hodge]

I have personally seen their property and it is pretty good. Bloke at work is a member and has access to it.
Fees go towards maintaining it, insurance costs and small part to the training they provide. Worthwhile if you're intending to go on a lot of their runs.

[Drewboyaus]

I have been a member of the Nissan club in Vic. It's a pretty active club and the fees are most reasonable for the property access, insurance and driver training in my opinion. I haven't been a member since 2012 mainly because of my health and the club meets down in Springvale/Noble Park which is a good 30km from my home.

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[megatexture]

It Cost me sweet fark all to go driving with mates, they can stick there yearly fees and sign ups .
There are plenty of free 4 wheel areas also

[Drewboyaus]

It Cost me sweet fark all to go driving with mates, they can stick there yearly fees and sign ups . There are plenty of free 4 wheel areas also

A portion of the fees goes to the 4wd association who do a lot to keep tracks and access to the high country open for all.....even for those who choose not to contribute.

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[threedogs]

The Yarck Hilton as its called is available to members to use , you just put
down a deposit on a key to the property and its yours as long as you are a member
Its a great spot tp have as a home base to venture futher north to Mansfield , Sheepyard flats. Howqua
Or Craigs hut,or Mt bulla. you can sleep in the hut if the weather turns foul, but plenty of camp sites around the property
They have a big toilet block with showers Hot/cold water, most is run via solar panels.
Inside the hut is a huge 10' x 6' fire place all wood supplied just re fill it from the stock outside
sweep up the shed and leave and lock the gate

[liftlid]

A portion of the fees goes to the 4wd association who do a lot to keep tracks and access to the high country open for all.....even for those who choose not to contribute. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

That's not really a fair comment considering 4wd VIC membership is not really available to nissanpatrol.com members, the association is not really catering for possibly the largest segment of 4x4 drivers those in a forum and don't wish to be subjected to club..., let's call it "politics"

[threedogs]

nissanpatrol.com is not a club as such so of course they wouldnt be considered

[liftlid]

nissanpatrol.com is not a club as such so of course they wouldnt be considered
I do know that, I think you missed the point!

[Clunk]

Does the 4wd association not work for the interest of all 4wd owners then, whether they are club members or not?

[happygu]

That's not really a fair comment considering 4wd VIC membership is not really available to nissanpatrol.com members, the association is not really catering for possibly the largest segment of 4x4 drivers those in a forum and don't wish to be subjected to club..., let's call it "politics"

I am fairly sure that the 4wd association will accept donations outside of the club memberships if you wish to donate ......:bigthumbup:

[threedogs]

In Vic they have a monthly magazine called "Track Watch" couple of my mates have been El Prezidante,
but its getting way too politcal these days

[liftlid]

I am fairly sure that the 4wd association will accept donations outside of the club memberships if you wish to donate ......:bigthumbup:
Why would you give a "donation " to 4wd VIC and not have representation?
You can't get on the MvO tracks or get a skeene permit without your "club" being a member of the association.
I think the association does good work. And they have helped me in the past, but now that I'm not in a club I can see what's lacking.

[Drewboyaus]

That's not really a fair comment considering 4wd VIC membership is not really available to nissanpatrol.com members, the association is not really catering for possibly the largest segment of 4x4 drivers those in a forum and don't wish to be subjected to club..., let's call it "politics"

One of my work colleagues is the VP of 4wd Vic and he has extended the invitation to our forum members to pay $60 as individual members of the association. That offer is still on the table for forum members. I had discussed it with Daz and AB when we were at ARB last year and got a lukewarm response. I imagine if we rolled it into a forum subscriber deal it would be a win all around.

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[happygu]

One of my work colleagues is the VP of 4wd Vic and he has extended the invitation to our forum members to pay $60 as individual members of the association. That offer is still on the table for forum members. I had discussed it with Daz and AB when we were at ARB last year and got a lukewarm response. I imagine if we rolled it into a forum subscriber deal it would be a win all around.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Excellent work Drew.....

The benefits of being a member of the 4wd Association are available then...

[BigRAWesty]

One of my work colleagues is the VP of 4wd Vic and he has extended the invitation to our forum members to pay $60 as individual members of the association. That offer is still on the table for forum members. I had discussed it with Daz and AB when we were at ARB last year and got a lukewarm response. I imagine if we rolled it into a forum subscriber deal it would be a win all around. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Would they welcome interstate members and cover them in other states?

[happygu]

Would they welcome interstate members and cover them in other states?

Here's some info for you Kallen,

National
http://www.anfwdc.asn.au/

State based
http://www.4wdsa.asn.au/


Mic

[liftlid]

One of my work colleagues is the VP of 4wd Vic and he has extended the invitation to our forum members to pay $60 as individual members of the association. That offer is still on the table for forum members. I had discussed it with Daz and AB when we were at ARB last year and got a lukewarm response. I imagine if we rolled it into a forum subscriber deal it would be a win all around. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
That's more expensive than 4x4 club members pay.
Also would we get the same track access and a vote at the meetings as club members do?

[happygu]

That's more expensive than 4x4 club members pay.
Also would we get the same track access and a vote at the meetings as club members do?

Only about $10 ... for the access to the MVO tracks, Trip indemnity insurance, Magazine, and the other extras, it isn't too bad

[liftlid]

Only about $10 ... for the access to the MVO tracks, Trip indemnity insurance, Magazine, and the other extras, it isn't too bad What extras?
From what I've seen, you have to be on a club trip to receive the benefits you describe above.
Unless 4wd VIC has changed its constitution since I last read it. Then I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions.

[Drewboyaus]

It might have actually been $50.....whatever it was, it was comparable to what the clubs pay.

This guy isn't the sort of old school 4wd association bloke, he's the same age as me, is a wheeler and dealer (he was one of our sales managers) and recognises there are a huge bunch who aren't contributing to the association at the moment even though they are beneficiaries of what the association has done.

He's been doing quite a bit of work with 4wd action over the last year or so and you can see a change in their attitude towards Parks, DPI, 4wd Vic and seasonal closures......its more moderate now and they understand how the system SHOULD work. He was actually recently in issue 228 on a high country trip he led them on.

Anyway, the offer was made.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[liftlid]

Just did some mr Google and clubs seem to be charging between $40 and $47 for association membership,
I can't see the association member clubs voting to change constitution to let us in as it erodes their own membership base.

[mudnut]

Being a member of my local club has been a great experience. I can understand some people don't wish to belong to a club because sometimes politics are involved, but it is a way of getting counted when issues affecting our chosen past time arise.

[liftlid]

Being a member of my local club has been a great experience. I can understand some people don't wish to belong to a club because sometimes politics are involved, but it is a way of getting counted when issues affecting our chosen past time arise.

Having spent over 10 years as a member of a local club I agree with you opinion on being counted but when the "politics" turns into vilification and harassment ?

[Drewboyaus]

Just did some mr Google and clubs seem to be charging between $40 and $47 for association membership, I can't see the association member clubs voting to change constitution to let us in as it erodes their own membership base.

It would be done as an individual, not as NissanPatrol.com.au, there is a provision for individual associate members of 4wd Vic.

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[liftlid]

I know that but you do not have voting rites or any protection from insurance
And only club trips can get MVO access

[AB]

I know that but you do not have voting rites or any protection from insurance
And only club trips can get MVO access

Sorry Andrew, I remember you talking to us about this and Darren was also looking into it himself but we must of all got sidetracked.

Gary, so what gain would be had if we headed down this path?

[liftlid]

Sorry Andrew, I remember you talking to us about this and Darren was also looking into it himself but we must of all got sidetracked. Gary, so what gain would be had if we headed down this path?
None that I can see without change on their part,
Considering I think we have more members than most clubs maybe they should be joining us!

[Drewboyaus]

That's not how it was put to me.
I was told that they would offer the members here the same insurance coverage and permit access as paid up association members.

I thought it was worthwhile pursuing as part of a user subscription to here no skin off my nose if you don't think it's worth it, just giving you the option.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[liftlid]

Actually I think it would be worthwhile as an organization to be part of the association and have rep's at 4wd VIC meetings like the clubs do.
I can't see the insurance side of it working etc unless we were a club

[Drewboyaus]

I believe the insurance is connected to the individual in this case. I'll ask him again.

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[liftlid]

I believe the insurance is connected to the individual in this case. I'll ask him again. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
Would be interesting to ask how the insurance would work and if I would be protected on a np. Com trip

[billyj]

ive had a sit down with the board of 4wd vic along with a few mates (one being a fairly well known 4wd personality) last year discussing the associate member thing along with becoming a club, we were more or less told that being an associate member gets you stuff all as you have a 0% chance of getting approved to travel mvo tracks. basically got told there only intrested in working with clubs and not the average 4 wheel driver.

[liftlid]

Forum membership generally does not get the respect it deserves especially from the old school, they miss the fact that we have are large enough to potentially have a bigger political clout quicker than anything the association could wish to have.
Most club members are surprised to learn the country wide participation in trips we have at np. Com

[relyimah]

Most club members are surprised to learn the country wide participation in trips we have at np. Com

I think the attitude and culture of this forum is far different to your standard forum though so can probably understand why...

[liftlid]

I think the attitude and culture of this forum is far different to your standard forum though so can probably understand why...
I don't have experience with other forums, can you explain where this one is different?

[Bob]

Would be interesting to ask how the insurance would work and if I would be protected on a np. Com trip

Insurance on a NP trip is up to the individual. Public Liability is a very grey area

[relyimah]

I don't have experience with other forums, can you explain where this one is different?

In my experience, the others don't have the same level of involvement and comradery that this one does. Think AB (and everyone else involved) does a fantastic job of making this a "group" rather than a forum.

Doesn't seem to be so many cowboys and a$$holes on this one :)

[Winnie]

I don't have experience with other forums, can you explain where this one is different?

Every other forum I've ever seen is full of tossers that do nothing but hang shit on each other's cars, they are just a big boys club and if you're not one of the boys then good luck to you... lol
This forum is just full of good blokes!

[jack]

I don't have experience with other forums, can you explain where this one is different?
I'm on a dive forum and it's like a battlefield at times, lots of bitching between the states, shore vs boat, PADI vs SSI etc. Gets to the point you don't want to make a comment or ask a question as you'll probably get hammered, or someones response will get hammered.
I made the mistake of mentioning that it was no longer welcoming to new divers and didn't reflect well to visitors and even that got heated between different parties.
Also on a couple of caravan/camping forums and get much the same, lot's of know alls etc.

This forum is by the the friendliest and respectful I've been on, and very happy about that. Glad to be a member!

[happygu]

I watched a group of guys drive out one of the most helpful members on one of the other forums, and then hang shit on every newcomers posts, and that has only happened here on rare occasions ....

I think it is not only a great bunch, a great culture starting off ( welcoming courtesy ), and a good bunch of moderators .....

[Sir Roofy]

The members of this forum who understand the politics of 4x4 vic keep chipping away at the edges
this forum np.com could steam roll those old farts and have more clout than they the other ppl would ever imagine we are growing daily and all have one thing in common to enjoy our bush and tracks and be responsible 4x4 owners our meets are getting bigger and better each year and lots of freindships are being forged
its only a matter of time may the force be with you

[Maxhead]

and a good bunch of moderators .....


Hmmmm, got me stumped!

.....on the move

[liftlid]

Thanks to everybody's for their positive response's to my question.
Makes me glad that I've joined you guys.

[liftlid]

Insurance on a NP trip is up to the individual. Public Liability is a very grey area

Hi bob
The question of association insurance covering np.com trips was more in the context of the 4wd association offering associate membership that individual np.com members could take up and one of the benefits mentioned was "insurance coverage" before any decisions are made I was hoping to clarify the grey areas.

[Winnie]

Let's say I am in a proper 4WD club associated with 4WD Vic, and I go on a club trip, what sort of insurance is it?
If I roll my car do they pay me out? Or is it more if I hurt myself they cover the bill? Just curious.

[happygu]

Let's say I am in a proper 4WD club associated with 4WD Vic, and I go on a club trip, what sort of insurance is it?
If I roll my car do they pay me out? Or is it more if I hurt myself they cover the bill? Just curious.

Winnie,

Here is the extract from their website:

The principal covers arranged for FWDV are:

 Combined Public and Products Liability Insurance
 Personal Accident
 Association Liability.


It doesn't cover your own vehicle, as you are expected to have your own insurance....

It does seem to cover Personal Accident and Incident....

The main benefit as far as I can see, is the fact that if I organize a trip and invite others along, and something untoward happens to someone in the party, I cannot lose everything I own from being sued by the other parties....


Mic

[happygu]

Winnie,

Here is the full document for you...

http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/upload/members/Office%20Bearers/Insurance/2013_14%20Insurance%20Program%20Overview.pdf

You can organize Full Comprehensive Motor Insurance with them too, and a portion goes to the Association....

[Clunk]

Let's say I am in a proper 4WD club associated with 4WD Vic, and I go on a club trip, what sort of insurance is it?
If I roll my car do they pay me out? Or is it more if I hurt myself they cover the bill? Just curious.

its just public liability as far as I'm aware, doen't cover the cost of damage to your car. Don't really understand myself because as a club, they have to pay insurance . Don't know the reasons for having to pay the Association................. if someone knows more then chime up and fill us in, not mentioning any names Evil Twin ;)

[Sir Roofy]

Maybe im to old fashioned but having a read of the above insurance doco seems like they want to own you as well if you want to have a fun day and it doesnt suit them, no go, if we wanted to go back to kris,s i doubt if that would be covered either as said its a very grey area, so now who takes up the challange you could find out by ringing this mob and see what could be done for any one interested in going down this path thruogh np
but if a the disclaimer is posted along with a trip notice e. O. I and every one understands that ifyou go on the trip its at your own risk every assistance in rcovery would be availible on the day

[the evil twin]

... here I was having a snooze and Clunk goes and wakes me up

The Club insurance is all public liability orientated and when incorporated the ability to sue individuals for damages are limited.

As prev posted by others your vehicle etc is your problem.

The insurance is there so if your on a Club run, hypothetically, your using a chainsaw and slip and chop the agates of a prize bull or damage their property or are fishing at the nudie beach and hook an appendage then they are covered (well, except the patrons) and then they and you aren't left with no house.

Given how cheap it is (ours is about $15 per member per year for 20 mill cover which insures a lot of Bull sperms or many K's of fence) and the fact you cannot get into a lot of venues or carry out activities without the cover it is easily worth every cent IMHO

[liftlid]

Insurance may well be important when on a organised club run, what we were trying to define is exactly what benefits of membership the 4wd association where offering with the suggestion of us becoming associate members and if we would even be covered by their insurance?
On my reading of the 4wd association rules, the rules would need to change before we would be covered.

[Drewboyaus]

A quick update from my end......
Have been out of the office on the road all week so haven't had the opportunity to chase the insurance issue up. Will do so next week.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[the evil twin]

Insurance may well be important when on a organised club run, what we were trying to define is exactly what benefits of membership the 4wd association where offering with the suggestion of us becoming associate members and if we would even be covered by their insurance?
On my reading of the 4wd association rules, the rules would need to change before we would be covered.

Hiya Cobber
You are correct.. the question (and my response) from Winnie and Clunk was about Club Runs

Further to the overall discussion...

I saw some comments by some posters about politics earlier and didn't respond but if your peak bodies (ANFWDC, WA4WDA etc) aren't 100% political then they aren't fulfilling their function.
It is the same for anything EG the AFL, CAMS, etc etc albeit if professional sports are involved there is also a regulatory function.
The peak body of an interest group is a force multiplier as it is a representation of the views of the masses IE if everyone individually wants to approach the Minister of Long Drop Dunnies because 10,000 4WD enthusiasts think they aren't deep enough or TCIS for insurance discounts it just won't happen.

You have to have a manageable number of represtatives and proof of whom you represent.
That is acheived by affiliation with an entity of legal standing membership of which has both benefits and responsibilities.

Soooo...
An individual joins a group of like minded people, lets say the Upper Kumbuctta West Patrol Club.
He doesn't join the Cletus Valley Cruiser Club 'cause it is too far away or they drive shit cars or one of their members backed over his Cat.
But... the members of both Clubs would really like to use deeper long drops so they affiliate to form a regional association.
They already know a meeting of everyone is superfluous and there is no point in everyone being individual members of a peak body as all they need is a representative or two.
When the regional body finds that there are other Associations with similar views the process continues again to whatever level is necessary.

Exec Summary...
Why would an individual want to be a full member of a peak political body and why would the body want individuals?
If you end up with 10,000 individual members you are back where you started and still have shallow long drops 'cause the Minister won't speak to you all
If you want to play AFL you join Geelong, Port, Freo or Collingwood not the AFL... uummm forget Collingwood actually everyone hates them

Sooo why not join the appropriate affiliate?
If you don't like the affiliate how can you assimilate into the peak body who represents their views or goals?
If you want the advantages the affiliates have gained by establishing codes, training minima, rules (as much as they may suck) or access relationships what makes you as an individual so special?

Disclaimer - not having a shot at anyone and written in a light hearted vein which sometimes may not come across as intended when read

[liftlid]

Hiya Cobber You are correct.. the question (and my response) from Winnie and Clunk was about Club Runs Further to the overall discussion... I saw some comments by some posters about politics earlier and didn't respond but if your peak bodies (ANFWDC, WA4WDA etc) aren't 100% political then they aren't fulfilling their function. It is the same for anything EG the AFL, CAMS, etc etc albeit if professional sports are involved there is also a regulatory function. The peak body of an interest group is a force multiplier as it is a representation of the views of the masses IE if everyone individually wants to approach the Minister of Long Drop Dunnies because 10,000 4WD enthusiasts think they aren't deep enough or TCIS for insurance discounts it just won't happen. You have to have a manageable number of represtatives and proof of whom you represent. That is acheived by affiliation with an entity of legal standing membership of which has both benefits and responsibilities. Soooo... An individual joins a group of like minded people, lets say the Upper Kumbuctta West Patrol Club. He doesn't join the Cletus Valley Cruiser Club 'cause it is too far away or they drive shit cars or one of their members backed over his Cat. But... the members of both Clubs would really like to use deeper long drops so they affiliate to form a regional association. They already know a meeting of everyone is superfluous and there is no point in everyone being individual members of a peak body as all they need is a representative or two. When the regional body finds that there are other Associations with similar views the process continues again to whatever level is necessary. Exec Summary... Why would an individual want to be a full member of a peak political body and why would the body want individuals? If you end up with 10,000 individual members you are back where you started and still have shallow long drops 'cause the Minister won't speak to you all If you want to play AFL you join Geelong, Port, Freo or Collingwood not the AFL... uummm forget Collingwood actually everyone hates them Sooo why not join the appropriate affiliate? If you don't like the affiliate how can you assimilate into the peak body who represents their views or goals? If you want the advantages the affiliates have gained by establishing codes, training minima, rules (as much as they may suck) or access relationships what makes you as an individual so special? Disclaimer - not having a shot at anyone and written in a light hearted vein which sometimes may not come across as intended when read

We still need to answer the original questions of the recent posts which may have hijacked the thread slightly due them discussing np.com joining the Vic 4wd association and not np.com members joining a local 4x4 club

[Clunk]

We still need to answer the original questions of the recent posts which may have hijacked the thread slightly due them discussing np.com joining the Vic 4wd association and not np.com members joining a local 4x4 club

What original questions?

[liftlid]

What original questions?
Vic 4wd association associate member offer to np.com members that they made

[the evil twin]

What original questions?


Vic 4wd association associate member offer to np.com members that they made

My bad... I was still on the original points about Club memberships/politics, the Vic Nissan Club and access to their facility.

I spose there are kinda two very distinct and seperate subjects in this thread now.

[Clunk]

Vic 4wd association associate member offer to np.com members that they made


ahhh yes that one...... lost track of it among the other bits

I've got no idea...... not that that should surprise anyone