CTEK D250S Dual

[bishbashbosh]

How hard can it be to DIY install?

I have a CTEK D250S, Full River DC105-12 and a Baintech universal power panel with an engel, cigi, and 2 usb sockets..

It will be in the cargo area.. i'm assuming i simply in cable from starter to the cargo area and connect as manual states.. To good to be true?

[threedogs]

Other will know more but kiss the ciggie sockets off they will fail you.
use either merit or 50 amp anderson

[the evil twin]

Yeah, very straight forward to install.
Use an Auto reset C/B preferably or a Maxi Fuse or whatever at the Cranker to protect the cable feed to the CTEK.
Mount the CTEK as close as possible to the Full River otherwise you are defeating the purpose of having it.
Solar feed can be a small Anderson or Anderson Power Pole, whatever spins your wheels

Good choice to get the panel with an Engel Socket, they are the ducks guts for fridges

[bishbashbosh]

The cigi socket is ok when stationary, just crap when bouncing all over the road yeah?

i only need to run my 45ltr engel and charge my wireless speakers, iPod, laptop and iPhone as required.

What amp auto reset should I use?

Something like this (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NARVA-HIGH-QUALITY-150-AMP-AUTO-RESET-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-WATERPROOF-55958-FUSE-/321234639318) in the engine bay just off the starter battery yes?

Solar will be an update in 6 months when i have some more coinage and I will cable that off from the ctek with an anderson (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ANDERSON-PLUG-MOUNTING-SYSTEM-50A-WPC50-WEATHERPROOF-PLUS-1-FREE-PLUG-/291290149668?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43d23ef324) in housing.

What size and type of cable to i use from my starter battery to the circuit breaker and from the circuit breaker to the ctek?

thanks!

[the evil twin]

What amp auto reset should I use?

Something like this (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NARVA-HIGH-QUALITY-150-AMP-AUTO-RESET-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-WATERPROOF-55958-FUSE-/321234639318) in the engine bay just off the starter battery yes?

What size and type of cable to i use from my starter battery to the circuit breaker and from the circuit breaker to the ctek?

thanks!

Strewth, that link is a 150 Amp C/B cobber.
That is miles to high a rating.

Your Ctek will only pull about 25 amps at the absolute most

CTEK recommend 10 to 12 gauge wire from the Cranker to the CTEK with a 30 amp fuse.
Again, 10 gauge wire from the CTEK to the Aux if you are within a metre and if you want to fuse that run, again a 30 Amp C/B or fuse.
These will be fine http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-NARVA-30-AMP-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-AUTO-RESET-DUAL-BATTERY-30A-CARAVAN-FUSE-/321230028918?pt=Caravan_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4acacd4076

For the ease of it all I would simply buy enough 10 gauge cable and 1 or 2 C/Bs or Fuses

[bishbashbosh]

Ok i'm with it now - i'll pop out tomorrow to grab those items plus a crimper.. bit nervous about giving this a crack but slow and easy i reckon i'll figure it out!

thanks!

[macca]

Ok i'm with it now - i'll pop out tomorrow to grab those items plus a crimper.. bit nervous about giving this a crack but slow and easy i reckon i'll figure it out!

thanks!

Mate you will be fine. And so satisfied when you are finished knowing that you did it. Just keep safety in mind, do your battery connections last, and the negatives as the final connection. The reason is that at no time can you short to the body if they're not connected. Good luck and enjoy.

[bishbashbosh]

never done anything like this before.. stuck my finger in a life light socket once trying to clean dirt out of it!

:1087:

[megatexture]

Split tube is good/ cheap extra protection also

[bishbashbosh]

will split tube it all..

stupid question maybe.. what size cable is 10 gauge?

[the evil twin]

snip...

what size cable is 10 gauge?

In "good enough for the bush" terms - 10 AWG (Amer Wire gauge) is also 10 B&S is also 6. something mm2 is also about 8mm auto cable
The smaller the number in AWG or B&S the thicker the wire

Given the distance you will be running 10 gauge is plenty big enough, 11 is OK and 12 at a pinch.
I would use 10 if I had to buy it... or... 11 or 12 if I had some lying around 'cause I am a tight arse

[bishbashbosh]

thanks TET.. they don't make it easy do they with the sizing standards..

but 10 AWG it shall be!

[megatexture]

There are lots of comparison charts in google images

[bishbashbosh]

one last question - what level should i not let my battery drop to - on the baintech it has a volt lcd screen and that states 13.2V when the car is switched off and goes up to 14.2V when the car is running..

what do i need to keep my volts at when camping?

[the evil twin]

one last question - what level should i not let my battery drop to - on the baintech it has a volt lcd screen and that states 13.2V when the car is switched off and goes up to 14.2V when the car is running..

what do i need to keep my volts at when camping?

Lot of answers to that question as it depends a fair bit on the battery and the load.
14.2 is the regulated output of the DC DC converter
13.2 is the surface charge of the battery which doesn't mean much really

The important voltage is the "resting voltage" which is the voltage after the Battery stabilises
12.5 to 12.7 is considered fully charged on a lead acid
That reading should be taken after you have loaded the battery for an hour or so if you are only running a fridge and an LED strip or two.

If you have a good quality deep cycle AGM running a small constant load then 11.75 is about the lowest you want to see on a regular basis.
11.5 will be OK occasionally but definitely charge the battery at first opportunity.

It will take several hours to recharge from around 11.75 so best idea is to keep the voltage up whenever you get the opportunity.

Remember, the resting voltage is the key. Even a dud battery well down on capacity will show 13.0 to 13.2 immediately after charging

[bishbashbosh]

thanks ET!

its a brand new fullriver 105AMP AGM - do i need to pre charge after installing?

also can i just run the engine to charge the aux or do i need to drive?

will connect the fridge and iPhone up tomorrow without engine on and run for an hour to monitor the charge..

[megatexture]

It will be fine, save your fuel lol

If you want to give it a boost with the car running hit the idol up button if you have one.

Do you plan on using the solar reg feature of the ctek?

[Cuppa]

The problem with using voltage as an indicator of a battery’s state of charge (SoC) is that as ET says, it needs to be a ‘rested voltage’, & the reality is that this is a condition rarely achieved in a camping situation if a 12v fridge is being used because it regularly cycles on & off. The best way to use voltage as an indicator (only) of the battery’s SoC is to become as familiar as possible with what the ’norms’ are for your system/usage. That way you know if something is ‘different’. I found what worked best for me was to take note of the voltage reading several times a day, but at much the same times each day. Pre-dawn when getting up for a leak was my most consistent.

I’m going to suggest a bit different to ET as to what a reasonable low voltage to keep above should be. (Bearing in mind this is the unobtainable ‘rested voltage’ - it may be that ET’s 11.75v is a minimum voltage whilst appliances are running, if which case I would concur, voltage will rise again when the appliance is switched off).

The following table gives voltages/SoC for rested batteries. Usually advice is not to take AGM’s below 40%. However keeping to a higher minimum will ensure longer battery life.
The Fullrivers in my bus are still giving good service, with as yet no noticeable reduction in capacity at over 8.5 years old. They have been down to 12.3v once, but have generally been kept to 12.4v+. This is possible by virtue of having a larger bank of batteries. The ‘cost’ is extra weight & storage space, not something that is generally desirable (or possible) in 4wd’s. Therefore the batteries get a greater flogging & don’t last as long. For this reason I don’t generally believe it is worth buying the more expensive/high quality deep cycle batteries for single aux batteries in a 4wd. Cheaper brands will likely give similar lifespans. Anyway just remember that the lower you discharge a battery & the longer you leave it in a discharged state the shorter it’s life will be.

Running the motor without driving will charge the battery, but I have never done this having been advised that running a diesel for long periods without putting it under load will end up glazing the bores.

[bishbashbosh]

Mega - that'll be my next step once I saved some more pennies!

Cuppa - thank you for that - I'll have a proper read when home and translate it to what I'm wanting to achieve in my truck!

🙏

[the evil twin]

thanks ET!

its a brand new fullriver 105AMP AGM - do i need to pre charge after installing?

also can i just run the engine to charge the aux or do i need to drive?

will connect the fridge and iPhone up tomorrow without engine on and run for an hour to monitor the charge..

I have a dual battery bank using the same batteries and Cuppa has the same as well from recollection.
They are manuf in China but are world class quality.

They are spec'd at something like 600 cycles to 60% discharge and still having 95% capacity or some such.

My suggestions are as follows;
-The CTEK charge voltage is not high enough for AGM so every 3 months or after some extended camping make sure you wack an AGM charger on the battery that will give it around 14.8 float.
-11.75 on the Baintech is as Cuppa mentioned under a small constant load with at least the fridge and a few lights etc running.
-Agree with Cuppa on resting voltages altho I feel 12.25 is quite OK but, yes, the higher the better
-Agree with Cuppa in that you get used to what "your" system voltages should look like.

Mine are a bit younger than Cuppas at 5 to 6 years old but don't even look like they have lost anything when I do the annual capacity tests etc.

[Beucam]

[QUOTE=the evil twin;558422]
My suggestions are as follows;
-The CTEK charge voltage is not high enough for AGM so every 3 months or after some extended camping make sure you wack an AGM charger on the battery that will give it around 14.8 float.


Hi ET,

I would like to try understand what you mean when saying that CTEK charge voltage is not high enough.
If i look at CTEK205 specs they have a 20A charging current. When i compare this to the Redarc BCDC1225, they indicate 25A. Would this DCDC charger also be too small, or does it all come down to battery use.

Thanks for all the valuable input.

Tx,
Shane

[the evil twin]

My bad, I meant to say Absorbtion not Float, AGM's like a higher Absorption Charge Voltage than Floodeds

We were discussing longevity etc previously in the thread and every 3 months or so it is good practice to put large capacity deep cycles on a Charger that will bring the SOC up as close as possible to 100% esp if they are going to sit for a while.
You will get a longer service life for sure.

I think you may also be confusing the current rating with the charging voltage of a Charger.
The two are unrelated as such in that the current determines how quickly the battery will be recharged and the Voltage is one factor in many that determines the state of charge it will reach.

Bottom line is that there isn't all that much difference between the Redarc and Ctek and once the battery charge acceptance rate drops below 20 amps then they are the same IE just because the Charger will do 20 amps doesn't mean the Battery will take 20 amps.
Charge acceptance rate drops significantly as a battery approachs a charged state and there is nothing the Charger can do about it.

[mudski]

Sorry for the thread dig...What is the D250s like in comparison to the Redarc BCDC1225? I have the 1225 in my camper and I think I should be replacing the SBi12 in the car to keep the batteries, in particular the Aux battery charged better. As from my understanding the SBi12 won't fully charge the battery, only to around 80%. Whereas the above to will?

I have my eye on the D250s as it is a little cheaper and looks to be easier to instal, it looks smaller than the 1225 but having never seen one I don't know about that.
I'm just keeping my options open at the moment, but want to do something about it early in the week. As I think I have killed my deep cycle aux battery on our last two week camping trip, which ain't that old...
FYI, I run the winch of the cranker battery, and have 2B&S sized cable to the SBi12 then onto the aux deep cycle. Even if the SBi12 is good enough I will keep it, or even upgrade to the SBi12D.

[Agronaught]

I prefer the ctek. I especially like the feature where it switches to charge the main battery when the aux is full.

[mudski]

As I run an Anderson plug down the back to plug off the cranking battery into the campers bcdc1225 when towing. Will this affect the ctek at all if I install one under the bonnet? Im wondering if the ctek or the redarc will get confused, so to speak, when I plugthe trailer in?

[the evil twin]

Nah, it'll be fine

[mudski]

Thanks. I need a new battery. I can get 105AH Supercharge deep cycle for the third of the price of a full river of the same size. Only because I have an account with Supercharge... Is the Full River that much better? Does the full river handle the drain a lot better than the Supercharge? Or what makes the FullRivers so good? Or should I look at something else?

[the evil twin]

Thanks. I need a new battery. I can get 105AH Supercharge deep cycle for the third of the price of a full river of the same size. Only because I have an account with Supercharge... Is the Full River that much better? Does the full river handle the drain a lot better than the Supercharge? Or what makes the FullRivers so good? Or should I look at something else?

I wouldn't rate Fullriver (Chinnee) 3 times better than Supercharge (Phillipino?).
Better, yes but not 3 times as much ameliorated over time for a reccy user.
I have gotten excellent results from Full River over the years in Industrial applications (and my camper ones are nearly 6 years old now) and reasonable results from Supercharge in vehicles but I now feel CAT are better as a cranker

Battery quality pretty much comes down to Material purity,Plate thickness, Seperator quality and construction.
Battery longevity pretty much comes down to the user choosing the right spec and doing the right thing.

Fullriver have an excellent rep and make an enormous array of batteries and did cop an unfair rap a while back when people were putting their Standby Industrial Deep Cycle batteries (max temp rating of 55 deg) under the bonnet as Aux's and cooking them.
The industrial batteries were cheaper than vehicle rated ones so people were not looking past the price for suitability then howling they were duds meanwhile the vehicle batts of same capacity etc were going gangbusters.

Bottom line - I'd buy the Supercharge in your case, if it was going in one of my remote telemetry stations in Wheredpukisthat in remote WA maybe not.

[mudski]

Thanks. This may save me a lot of coin. But I'm not 100% sure the aux I have is buggered. I have a load tester I can use to test it. As the deep cycle doesn't have a CCA rating, and the load tester goes by CCA, I was told by Supercharge to test it as a 500CCA rated battery. Fully charged I ran the load tester on it and it failed. Although I'm not entirely convinced this is correct. I might go down to their warehouse and get them to test it. Or something....

[the evil twin]

Hmmm... doesn't sound too good esp if it failed the load test big time.

How old is it?
You might get it back to a ueable state if you have a decent charger with a "recond" mode.
Won't be 100% tho

[mudski]

Its about two years old. The only charger I have is an Arlec 8amp charger with boost mode on it...

[mudski]

Could I use 6mm solar cable for the ctek? Thats all I have on me...

[the evil twin]

Could I use 6mm solar cable for the ctek? Thats all I have on me...

For what to where over how far?
(Should be more than adequate... just checking)

[mudski]

For what to where over how far?

Ok I have the ctek mounted right next the aux battery. I need to run a cable from the starter across to the ctek, then the ctek to the aux battery and the earth of course. I will worry about the solar connection later...
If its not sufficient I will get some larger gauge cable later.

[the evil twin]

Ok I have the ctek mounted right next the aux battery. Do I need to run a cable from the starter across to the ctek, then the ctek to the aux battery and the earth of course. I will worry about the solar connection later...

No worries... 6mm will be oodles for that

[mudski]

No worries... 6mm will be oodles for that

Sweet! Gir it mounted nice and close.

[the evil twin]

... should add that the Ctek will start to reduce power output at temps over 50 deg so under the bonnet isn't exactly ideal but life is a compromise and they need to go where they need to go

[the evil twin]

Sweet! Gir it mounted nice and close.

Awesome... now, take 10 minutes to neaten up your battery connections as well, slacko :harhar:

[mudski]

... should add that the Ctek will start to reduce power output at temps over 50 deg so under the bonnet isn't exactly ideal but life is a compromise and they need to go where they need to go
are the temps monitored by that lead? I though of running it toward the front next to the headlight... That should keep the sensor at a cooler temp. I have in mind to make up a heat shield for the battery and ctek. Maybe even one of those beanies for the turbo like TD used.

Awesome... now, take 10 minutes to neaten up your battery connections as well, slacko :harhar:
Yep thats the next part. New battery tomorrow, I just need to move the vacuum canister and re-route the hoses to it, then shift the catch can, then I can make up a mounting plate for the 4way relay housing and 16way fuse housing. Its getting quite bad under the bonnet. I wish I had a daily driver so I could just park this thing, and rip the entire loom out and make a new one. You should see the other side behind the headlight! Running Projectors with HIDs, angle eyes and devils eyes, plus all the other shite, its really bad.

[mudski]

Well its all in and connected. I started the car up, lights came up on the ctek, the power light, the alternator light and the service battery light. I checked the charge voltage and the crank battery is getting a charge but the aux isn't. new battery there so maybe its charged enough sitting at 13.5V.... I can't see anything in the three whole pages about voltage cut-off etc etc..

[the evil twin]

Well its all in and connected. I started the car up, lights came up on the ctek, the power light, the alternator light and the service battery light. I checked the charge voltage and the crank battery is getting a charge but the aux isn't. new battery there so maybe its charged enough sitting at 13.5V.... I can't see anything in the three whole pages about voltage cut-off etc etc..

Ooops my bad, post deleted wrong thread

[Dinger]

Well its all in and connected. I started the car up, lights came up on the ctek, the power light, the alternator light and the service battery light. I checked the charge voltage and the crank battery is getting a charge but the aux isn't. new battery there so maybe its charged enough sitting at 13.5V.... I can't see anything in the three whole pages about voltage cut-off etc etc..

If the starter battery is charging or below required volts I think around 10.5v then the ctek will not charge the AUX battery until the starter hits 13.4 or 13.7v just from memory when I had mine in the gq

[mudski]

If the starter battery is charging or below required volts I think around 10.5v then the ctek will not charge the AUX battery until the starter hits 13.4 or 13.7v just from memory when I had mine in the gq

Hmm. The alternator is putting in around 14v to the starter battery though. It say I don't need to earth the starter battery to the ctek. Then I see a Youtube vid from Baintech where they say to do...Paranoia is kicking it, again. Lol. Last thing I want is to eff another aux battery and have warm beer.

[the evil twin]

I would connect Solar, Cranker and Aux (esp if that is the Baintech recommendation) -ve to the Ctek.

It eliminates any poor earthing or high resistance return.

[clubbyr8]

Hmm. The alternator is putting in around 14v to the starter battery though. It say I don't need to earth the starter battery to the ctek. Then I see a Youtube vid from Baintech where they say to do...Paranoia is kicking it, again. Lol. Last thing I want is to eff another aux battery and have warm beer.

Mudski, how did you go with this? Looking at getting a D250S soon. I've got a CTEK MXS 5.0 and the thing is brilliant.....

[mudski]

Mudski, how did you go with this? Looking at getting a D250S soon. I've got a CTEK MXS 5.0 and the thing is brilliant.....

All fitted up well mate. It works as it should. It was a lot bigger than I though it would have been though. I had it fitted in the engine bay next to the aux battery, but now I am doing the conversion I have removed it for now so theres room in the bay for ease of fitment of the new motor. Well, I removed the entire aux side and all wiring so I will start again once the new donk is in and running. I think I will mount in under the lhs dash somewhere this time, to keep the heat away from it.
Although I do like the redarc BCDC1225 better, as I have one of those in my camper, this was shite easy to wire up though. Very impressed by this.