Shed buying

[Cuppa]

Wondering if anyone might have any experience and/or wisdom to share with me regarding choosing a shed from the commercial shed manufacturers.

We are looking at getting a shed built soon, & I’ve spent the past couple of days trawling around the 5 local franchises trying to get quotes that I can compare. Not an easy task I might add. I wanted to compare apples with apples but seem to have ended up with apples & pears.

The shed will be a significant spend for us. After much thought (& size reduction) we have decided on one with a 12 metre span & 15 metres long, with a wall height of 3.8 metres, ( approx 5metres high at roof ridgeline) on a slab.

I’ve been to Ranbuild, Totalspan, Eureka, Shedboss & Fair Dinkum. Am still waiting for the quotes from two of them.

I won’t be erecting the shed myself, so it comes down to whether I use a company which is also a registered builder (Ranbuild & Totalspan) & pay for the privilege of them doing the whole thing, with one point of contact if there are any problems, or to become an owner/builder & engage concretors & builders myself. So far with the 3 quotes I’ve had there is a variation in total price of around $10k, but I don’t feel 100% confident that if I go the owner/builder route that there won’t be additional costs, to say nothing of hassle & aggro if any problem arises & the different people involved all point the finger at someone else.

Then there is the quality issue. There seems to be slight variations among them, but none that seem to be game changers. The only different one, who use RHS uprights instead of C section is Eureka, but there there are possible issues with their steel quality. All say they use Bluescope steel, but it seems there is Bluescope & Bluescope, with some being Australian produced & an inferior version from China.

Most offer a 15 year warranty I think, Totalspan 25 years. What precisely that means is anybody’s guess though.

So ..... who built your shed, are you happy with it, were you happy with the process, & do you have any pearls of wisdom for me?

[Family4x4]

Have you asked the MPA (stenghth) of the slab?

[TPC]

A few years ago I got a shed, veranda and carport supplied by Basic Steel Supplies.
I did not want the hassle of arranging the builder so let them arrange the building of it all but this was probably a mistake as the contractor they used was a bit rough.
I was happy enough with the quality but there were several things in the installation that I know I would have done better.
If you go with the registered builders make sure they are doing it themselves and not contracting some dodgy back yarders.

[Cuppa]

Have you asked the MPA (stenghth) of the slab?

I think one place might have mentioned 25MPA but I’m not sure, my head was spinning with facts & figures by the time I got home today.

Any suggestions as to what MPA is appropriate?

Several vehicles will be parked in half the shed, but nothing heavier than around the 5 tonnes. Quite possibly less. Our bus is the heaviest & goes just under 5 tonnes, but it will hopefully be sold before the shed is built. If we eventually get sick of the Tvan that we plan to acquire, we may eventually get another motorhome, but it is unlikely to be any heavier than the bus.

The other half of the shed will be filled with an ‘unnofficial’ ;) granny flat I intend to build myself.

Another thing with the concrete - one place said they prefer to not build until at least 3 weeks after the slab is poured. All the rest said a week. Any concreters here with recommendations?

[NP99]

Maybe work in reverse and contact a local builder. They may have erected some sheds and be aware of any concerns.

[Cuppa]

A few years ago I got a shed, veranda and carport supplied by Basic Steel Supplies.
I did not want the hassle of arranging the builder so let them arrange the building of it all but this was probably a mistake as the contractor they used was a bit rough.
I was happy enough with the quality but there were several things in the installation that I know I would have done better.
If you go with the registered builders make sure they are doing it themselves and not contracting some dodgy back yarders.


Yes, I’ve heard a few stories about ‘cowboy’ subcontractors.
Not just the subcontractors either....... one company today asked me if I would want plastic lining laid under the slab! My response was to question whether any reasonable concretor would lay a slab for a storage shed without one.

[NP99]

Do they use solid concrete or the half half with styrofoam?

[jack]

Hi Cuppa,

When the daughter and son in law built their shed, they designed it themselves and then went to Ranbuild. They worked out what was required and were very good to deal with. Think it was Yvonne but not sure, Ranbuild supplied all the materials and three of us put it up over a few days. Easily as big if not bigger than what you're planning and had a raised mid section, I'll try and find a picture later. Had the slab poured on a sloped area, I could possibly get you a few names if needed.
They would happily deal with Ranbuild again and if you're not in a rush a couple of people could build it. I did mine myself but it was only a quarter the size.
Send me a PM and I can give you a call if you like, I've got a few contacts.

Cheers
Jack

[dads tractor]

Cuppa most people do the slab first ,I ? this way of doing it .My thoughts are to erect the shed on the foundations and then do the slab last and use plastic between the side panels and the slab ,this gives a good seal between the iron panels and the cement to stop egress of critters and when sealed dirt and water causing a rust problem . Then you have a hose able shed floor and drains in the bays very handy when welding ,grinding and working under your fleet.

[megatexture]

I'm not a concreter but have done some slabs/ pathways myself and use cement on a daily basis but..
If your going to park cars on the slab I'd be going minimum 100-125mm and 25 mpa, the cost difference between 20-25 when purchasing is nothing.
the plastic on the floor will delay the cement going off too fast and I would recommend it but soaking the ground can be effective also.
Once the concrete is dry enough to hose safely soak it and cover it with plastic to cure it slowly even keeping it moist for 7 days as rapid drying of the slab will get you some nice spider cracking.
Oh and cut expansion joints in don't let them use dummy joints they just collect more crap and don't work.

Most stand alone garages/ sheds you would lay the slab to the same dimensions of the frame so the wall sheets can hang 20-30 mm down over the slab so you can hose the floor anyway. If you weren't going to hose but wanted to stop rodents getting in under the sheets you can get foam packing to the shape of the roofing/ wall sheets to put between the sheets and the slab.

I've built a kit single shed with extra work shop space(total span) and a double carport
( http://www.coroofs.com.au )
both with 2.5m clearance underneath and both kits were easy to put up with 2 people, yours being slightly higher may require 3 but wouldn't be hard. Both had simple to follow instructions.

For the carport we went with coroof just for the pressed tile roof to match the house but they weren't cheap from memory but good to deal with. The slab on this carport was 100mm and 25mpa with if memory serves me footings 500x300 where the support post were.

[Bob]

PM Sent
..............

[liftlid]

I would recommend getting the slab done after the permit is signed off, then your granny flat modifications can be done without hindrance, don't forget to build your slab so it will take a hoist

[NP99]

Ballarat could be a good place for the national meet up :)

[paulyg]

Hey cuppa, I got a Eureka American barn, I chose Eureka because of the full rhs frame, much more ridged than c section.
I did the slab first, much easier to erect with a slab already poured, I would get another no problem.

[threedogs]

Like a good ole Amish barn raising weekend lol,
My 6x5 mtr shed was erected then the slab poured.
but the fall is going the wrong way dab nabit.
did flood but not anymore

[krbrooking]

My brother-in-law used to build sheds over in Perth (never qualified though), I could speak to him and get his input if you like, or I could even give you his number and you can both catch over the phone if you like (pm me). Regarding the concrete I did it for around a year, I would personally concrete the uprights first (like a fence post) and once they are set I would then erect the shed, then pour the slab, especially being the size you are looking at doing. that way you prob won't need footings and so on as the uprights would act as the footings. Regarding curing the slab the longer the better most quality concreters would suggest waiting a month before putting any weight on it, but I have seen them putting walls up as soon as 2 days later (would not suggest that at all). As megatexture said I would go a minimum of 100mm thick and use 25mpa and I would also put plastic. I would also water down the slab for a day or two (especially if it is hot), not so crucial if it is cold and I would also insist on cutting expansions joins as the dummy joins not only collect stuff but this is where most crack will start, that is why they do them so if there is any cracking they will normally follow the dummy join and not go across the slab the other way. Also if you are going to be putting hoists or heavy machinery like lathes or panel saws I would definitely go thicker in the area that they will be going.

[BigRAWesty]

I think it's always cheaper in the end to get the primary company to do the complete install I'd that's the way you go.
The company will not charge as much for erection if they already have the job where as a subbie will want a bit of cream aswell.

In all honesty in the end its your choice. There is nothing wrong with c section columns. I think your right though with final finish..
The father inlaw had his shed erected and the idiots put the flashing on the post and the sheet over top... When pulled up they said that's how they've always done it. Wtf... Issue was resolved and new flashing put over top no cost.

Electrical onnthe other hand may be different. Hunt around wishbone subbies for quotes and compair to the manufacturer..

There are many variables, and unfortunately being a custom shed it's gunna cost more.

[Bob]

I would pour the Slab first with the Footings built into the Slab with a Lip around the outside for the Cladding to recess into.
Just make sure that the cladding does not touch the Concrete as it will void your Warranty with BHP.

[Cuppa]

Thanks everyone, I’ve had some good advice both here, via PM’s & on the phone. I’m pretty sure I know who I’ll be going with now, & probably will go for the complete install.

Paulyg, I also liked the RHS & bolted apex of the Eureka sheds, & have a friend & his son who also tell me they are happy with them (a mate of the son puts sheds up for Eureka), however I have also heard many stories of ‘customer relation problems’ & difficulty getting problems resolved with them. Enough to be a worry.

Krbrooking & MT, I will specify 25mpa. All shed places except one said they would build on the concrete (including using a scissor lift) a week after it was put down. Ranbuild said not before 3 weeks. One place, when they told me a week & I asked if I were able to specify a longer period said “No”! Chances are that we will be into hot weather before the concrete goes down so I will make sure plastic to cover it is supplied & that I have sufficient hose extensions to allow me to wet it down.
Regarding cutting expansion joins - would these be through the full depth of the slab? If so wouldn’t there be a potential problem caused by exposing the reo? I thought you either had the dummy joins cut in after the slab was down, or the slab was laid in sections with expansion joints (foam or rubber) between the sections?

Bob, I do prefer the idea of the slab & footings going down together first. I had been thinking of using the stepped vermin/ember seal around the base of the cladding.

TD & NP, Amish style sounds good, but would require at least one person who knew exactly what needed to happen & when, & I’m not convinced that’d be me. Good chance I’d end up with a committee built shed! LOL.

Liftlid, no plumbing will occur until after sign off. Shower base can be accomodated on a raised plinth. How much extra depth of concrete would be required to go under a hoist? Hoist or a pit would be nice, but just having a smooth flat floor which allows for a decent trolley jack & use of a creeper trolley would be a luxury compared to what I’ve been used to.

Kallen, interesting that you say that what appears to be the most expensive option at the outset is likely to be cheaper in the end. Given that I think that’s the way we’ll go, your comment makes deciding to do so a bit easier.

[Bob]

Some Pics of a C Section Shed which by the way is our own design (I used to have a Shed Company in the dim dark past)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/09/122.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/09/123.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/09/124.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/09/125.jpg

[megatexture]

You dont cut right through its say 1/3rd of the thickness of the slab and also make sure they put the rio on hats.

[MudRunnerTD]

Check you local council requirements for the slab on ground. There are some big differences. Some will say that if the slab is poured first and then the columns stood on the slab it is deemed a Raft Slab and may require edge beams and internal thickening and if the columns are built on pad footings and the shed stood then the Infill slab the infill slab requires no engineering and the final inspection and Certificate of Occupancy (CofO) before the slab is poured.

Send Plassy a pm, he is a Building Surveyor and could shed some light or just call Council and ask them what their local requirements are.

I recommend at least a 100mm slab and at least Y72 mesh. Demand that the mesh is placed on chairs and NOT walked in. This is a fail and will leave the mesh on the bottom of the slab. The design of a slab needs that mesh in the middle not in the last 20mm.

Make sure you have the expansion joints cut as soon as possible. Saw cut for the win. Make sure they are oly 20mm deep and do not cut the mesh or your waiting you time. It will be a train wreck within a year.

Make sure the concreter is not expecting to just float off and go. A slab that big needs a few goes on the helicopter for a great looking slab.

If you can a 300mm wide edge maybe 200mm thick will also help the slab in the long run. For the sake of a few dollars now the long term benefit will be worth it. A shovel wide thickening around the edge will really stiffen thing up.

Plastic underneath for sure. It is a Moisture Barrier and will stop moisture sucking up through the slab, it will stop rising Salt also.

As Bob noted. The warranty on any colour bond product is Void if laid in contact with Concrete. If they pour the slab within the sheeted shed either paint bitumen barrier or place expansion joint foam around the base of all the sheets before pouring.

I highly recommend J.H. Stephens Pty Ltd in Geelong for a very high quality shed at your end of the market. Your shed is nt a domestic, its an industrial.

C channel wall and roof purlins rather than Top Hats. Have the roof insulated during installation for the win.

As noted. If your even thinking about installing a Hoist down the track think about it now. Some local thickening in the slab to bolt to will be awesome.

As Gary noted if you do the slab as an Infill after CofO you can add you toilet and ablutions without the need to add them to your building permit. Unless your shed is close and the plumbing is close and your going to pay a plumber to sign it off then it will do your head in.

Doing it as an Owner Builder really is No Big Deal. Assuming that the Shed supplier is presenting you their preferred contractor to erect the shed your on a winner. They know each other. They know how their sheds work and how to build them. Going as an Owner Builder just makes the Insurance etc much easier to deal with. It's a Shed. As an Owner Buolder you will have to Warrant the structure for 10years. build only. Manufacturers warranty still applies.

[paulyg]

I am in the same council area as you cuupa, I poured the slab first, my barn is 11m x 18m, they wanted at least 100mm thick slab with 400mm x 300mm footings for the columns. may vary depending on soil type.
I have had no problems dealing with Eureka Sheds in Ballarat,