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Ironman 4x4
1st May 2014, 03:15 PM
Ironman 4x4 suspension kits are 100% certified road legal, up to 50mm. Donít risk being taken off the road for non-compliant components!

In the recent weeks Ironman 4x4 has received notice of isolated incidents of 4WD vehicles fitted with Ironman 4x4 aftermarket suspension components (particularly those fitted with our adjustable Panhard rods) receiving defect notices for the use of these components. Unfortunately these occurrences appear to be a result of a lack of knowledge on the part of Highway Patrol officers.

We have received acknowledgement from Queensland Transport that there is no case for issuing a defect notice on vehicles fitted with Ironman 4x4 suspension kits and associated components up to 50mm raised.

To ensuring this misunderstanding doesn't inconvenience others in the future Ironman 4x4 have produced a Certificate of Compliance which you can provide to any authorities who are not aware of our product compliance.

Download the Certificate of Compliance here:http://www.ironman4x4.com/downloads/Ironman-4x4-Suspension---Certificate-of-Compliance.jpg

Drewboyaus
1st May 2014, 03:30 PM
Why is it that some cops feel they have to be so forking righteous in defecting 4x4's that to any normal person would barely look any higher than standard?

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MEGOMONSTER
1st May 2014, 03:33 PM
Why is it that some cops feel they have to be so forking righteous in defecting 4x4's that to any normal person would barely look any higher than standard? Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

If there out looking to do defects, that's exactly what they'll do.

Ironman 4x4
1st May 2014, 03:54 PM
Why is it that some cops feel they have to be so forking righteous in defecting 4x4's that to any normal person would barely look any higher than standard?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

The ironic thing is that the vehicle could even be at stock height but using our panhards and they were defecting them.

We've pulled together this to ensure it doesn't happen to anyone else. Our products were designed to be stronger and better than factory spec equivelents, using our components would actually make you car safer. So to help out our customers we've done what we can to ensure you can fight back. Just make sure to print out a copy of the Certificate of Compliance and carry that with you, especially if you are in QLD.

04OFF
1st May 2014, 05:57 PM
Good work, you guys should be commended for doing something about this, most other manufacturers/distributers seem un deterred that people get defected for 100% legal products.





As I have found out myself personally, even DOT are defecting cars with little justification, I know its their job, but they do not have to show proof of why your modification/s do not meet requirements, all they have to do is defect you, and YOU have to go get proof that your mods meet the current standards.


So basically, they "guess" your mods do not meet the standards, but don't have to look at any paperwork/rules to confirm what the "actual" rules are, don't measure or examine your car correctly, or at all, simply just give you a defect.......... then YOU, have to go get it cleared, and prove there was NOTHING wrong or illegal about the modification in the first place...........................What a complete load of BS !


And to top all this off, if you live in QLD, you now have 1 defect registered against your car (for no actual legitimate reason at all), and if you get another defect within a few years, they can confiscate your car for 7 days !





I now feel compelled to keep a whole heap of paperwork in my glove box, all the facts about ADRs and Australian Standards relating to my car, this way I can hopefully "educate" the next person that wants to unjustly give me a defect :210:

Drewboyaus
1st May 2014, 06:02 PM
If there out looking to do defects, that's exactly what they'll do. Yes but wouldn't you make sure your officers were properly trained instead of going off half cocked....if I got a defect and had to catch a cab home there'd be legal shizen going off all over the place. QLD rozzas seem to be a whole other breed of both ignorant and stupid (a very dangerous combination) At least in Victoria we don't have the same sort of troubles......anything that gets defected is generally bloody obviously so......and if you keep your ride tidy and looking well cared for they generally don't seem too bothered. Just the flogs with crazy lift and massive tyres that tend to get nailed......sorry Daz.......hehehe Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Alitis007
1st May 2014, 06:18 PM
The jacks here tend to go to vicroads "trade" nights and are given a brief description of whats deemed to be illegal. If you do your research and make sure you are within the "legal" tolerances and you genuinely explain to the officer whats right and wrong they tend to leave you alone. BUT sometimes they're just trying to fill their quoter for the weekend, i've been defected on one of my other cars and the officer grabbed a book from his car and said straight out " see this book!? It needs to be filled by Monday morning and your just another number on the list! "
All you can do is prey you get a honest individual that wants to do the right thing and you'll most likely get a verbal warning, if they know what they're talking about.

tikashooter
1st May 2014, 08:59 PM
From reading this thread and speaking to a couple of mates it seems to me vicroads, dot, police etc see 4x4 drivers as easy targets
we drive large cars easily visible and with accessories fitted it must seem to them we all must have a lot of coin so why not
pull us over for supposedly driving defected vehicles and relieve us of some of this vast amount of coin we all seem to have.
Any way that's my two cents worth.
Cheers

Reidy
6th May 2014, 12:38 AM
Ironman 4x4x,
I have just put a 2" lift of yours in my 07 Gu Patrol and the steering feels very light and therig seems to walk side ways a bit. Would castor correction bushes fix this problem and if so how do I know what bushes to get.

The steering dampner has been replaced aswell. Im trying to find time to do the front end bearings and seals?

Drewboyaus
6th May 2014, 08:37 AM
It sounds as if yours might be one of the vehicles in which a 50mm lift can put castor out enough to be annoying. I'll be interested to hear the response as I'm considering some sort of castor correction and none of the three options are particularly great.

1. Castor bushes, generally flog out pretty quickly 2. Correction plates......???
3. Drop boxes, probably a bit extreme for 50mm but also reduce clearance.....less if an issue if your lift is 100mm
4. Drop arms etc. Ideal but expensive.

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threedogs
6th May 2014, 08:56 AM
X 2 with Drew keep your Patrol tidy and clean stay within the limits on whats legal and whats not.
You are only looking for trouble if you have a 4" body lift and 6" coils with no Mud flaps and 38" tyres.
HHHHMMMMMMMmmmm38"s lol

bigguwesty
6th May 2014, 09:50 AM
It sounds as if yours might be one of the vehicles in which a 50mm lift can put castor out enough to be annoying. I'll be interested to hear the response as I'm considering some sort of castor correction and none of the three options are particularly great.

1. Castor bushes, generally flog out pretty quickly 2. Correction plates......???
3. Drop boxes, probably a bit extreme for 50mm but also reduce clearance.....less if an issue if your lift is 100mm
4. Drop arms etc. Ideal but expensive.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Bushes are fine if you use quality sets and keep an eye on the bolts.

Ironman 4x4
6th May 2014, 10:27 AM
Ironman 4x4x,
I have just put a 2" lift of yours in my 07 Gu Patrol and the steering feels very light and therig seems to walk side ways a bit. Would castor correction bushes fix this problem and if so how do I know what bushes to get.

The steering dampner has been replaced aswell. Im trying to find time to do the front end bearings and seals?

Hey Reidy,

Light steering tends to suggest one of two things. You castor is out (rare on a 2" lift, but does very occasionally happen - especially if you overspec'd springs and achieved a greater than 2" lift), or your front springs are sitting too high to your rear springs (you should in an ideal world have a slight rake to you vehicle with the rear sitting slightly higher than your front, this ensures you maintain pressure on the front wheels and also assists if you throw gear in to not be drooping a the rear - also helps force the front to flex!).

I'd suggest doing the following:

1. Check your bearings. This is the easiest and cheapest thing to start with. Always good to check them anyway - but loose bearings can cause issues with steering shudder, and walking sideways.
2. Check if the suspension has a rake to it. It's not a absolute requirement but can point towards the kit not being correctly rated to the loads you carry.
3. Check all bushes. This is especially important. Don't just check those at the front either! Also make sure you check the rear upper and lower control arms and the panhard bushes. Same for the front bushes including tie rods and drag link. Make sure you replace them with genuine Nissan ones when you do. A few worn bushes can cause all sorts of strife.
4. Once you are sure all of the above is correctly set. Then we can start looking at caster correction. At which case I'd only suggest caster bushes There is no need to go drop boxes or arms for a 2", especially when it's only $121 for a set of offset bushes and you won't lose any clearance.

Hope that steers you in the right direction. If you keep having issues you are welcome to shoot me a PM with you phone number and we can discuss the issue in more detail.

Cheers,

Matt
Ironman 4x4

Reidy
6th May 2014, 11:01 AM
Thanks for the help guys. Will keep you updated.

catchinjack
7th May 2014, 08:31 AM
I've got same issue and once bearing were adjusted it stopped in the front, now I've just got the rear end wanting to step out which it did on weekend quite violently on a dirt road after hitting a pothole, i'm also running Ironman 2in lift with foam cell shocks.

Ironman 4x4
7th May 2014, 09:06 AM
I've got same issue and once bearing were adjusted it stopped in the front, now I've just got the rear end wanting to step out which it did on weekend quite violently on a dirt road after hitting a pothole, i'm also running Ironman 2in lift with foam cell shocks.

Catchinjack,

Sounds like your control arms bushes are worn. When I first picked up my Patrol I had the same issues. When I checked out the rear bushes the upper control arm's bushes were severely damaged (they had ripped in half and were half way out of the housing). Do a quick check over all the bushes on your control arms as well as your panhard rod. I can almost guarantee that one of them will be pretty worn.

Cheers,

Matt
Ironman 4x4

Reidy
7th May 2014, 04:52 PM
Ok so I now know what needs fixing on my rig. The leafs on the back are on the wrong sides. I took it in to another tyre/suspension place and the toe was way out. And I need to replace my panhard rod bushes and put offset castor bushes in. You blokes were on to it cheers.

Tomorrow I will swap the leafs around and hopefully can get the $480 together to get the bushes done.

1 more question though, can the toe change so quickly. The reason I ask is I have had 4 maybe 5 alignments done in the last 2 months the most recent just last week. Toe was -19/-24 when checked today???

Reidy
10th May 2014, 11:31 AM
This is the alignment readout I got, the 4th wheel alignment in the last 2 months. I am replacing panhard rod bushes and installing castor correction bushes..
I dont understand the readout but I was hoping someone on here would be able to explain how to read it and maybe suggest other things I might need to fix.

Alitis007
10th May 2014, 01:25 PM
Toe adjustment is supposed to be in mm not degrees minutes. Before i explain what i can see on the print out i'll explain what each one is and the relation to each other but we'll only look at the front axle coz the rear has no adjustment. From the top :
Caster is the position of the wheel in the wheel arch, looking at it from the side + is towards the front of the car, - is toward the rear. Caster has no affect on any other adjustment. What caster does is say you do a u turn, caster will return the wheels to the straight ahead position. Caster is the reason why you can ride a bike with no hands.

KPI or SAI ( king pin inclination or steering axis inclination ) is the angle of the wheels at full lock. It is adjusted correct camber and caster adjustment

Camber, the best way for me to describe it is like this, looking at the wheel from the front of the car camber is the angle of how far the wheel is towards or away from the motor at 12 o'clock . + camber is away from the motor - is towards the motor, toe affects camber but on patrols the diff angle is what affects it the most. Too much negative camber will give you great handling around corners but poor straight line control and positive camber the other way around

Toe is measured in mm in most cases, it is how close or far away the wheels are from each other at 3 and 9 o'clock positions of the wheels. On your print out toe in is - and toe out is + ( in meaning towards each other, out obviously away) camber affects this adjustment. Total toe is the difference between the distance apart the front and back of the wheels are from each other across the front axle. Ideally all cars are set to a total toe of 2mm.

I don't know how to change the deg/min reading to mm but looking at the print out your steering probably pulls to the left ?? Coz of the caster and understeers around corners so your probably wear the edges of the tyres oversteering from the KPI not to mention the death wobbles you'd get on the hwy.

This is what the correct adjustment is meant to look like with standard tyres on

44392

Alitis007
10th May 2014, 01:45 PM
I should mention that the total toe should be toe in as the patrol is mostly used in 2wd the wheels need to be pointed inwards because they flick out as you start driving

Reidy
10th May 2014, 01:48 PM
Thanks mate.. You were spot on everything you described is what is happening at the moment.

Will replacing the castor correction bushes and panhard rod bushes fix the problem?

I also have the kits for the swivel hubs and front and rear bearings as I thought that was the cause at first should I replace them all aswell?, its an 2007 3lt but its only got 41,000km on the clock..

Alitis007
10th May 2014, 07:48 PM
Thanks mate.. You were spot on everything you described is what is happening at the moment. Will replacing the castor correction bushes and panhard rod bushes fix the problem? I also have the kits for the swivel hubs and front and rear bearings as I thought that was the cause at first should I replace them all aswell?, its an 2007 3lt but its only got 41,000km on the clock..

If the panhard rod bushes are worn after you turn a corner the front will feel like it wonders, as in you turn and it feels like a delay before the wheels follow. If your wheel bearings are noisy or the seals a stuffed change them, if the seals are ok just adjust the wheels bearings if they are loose coz they will affect the alignment aswell. The rear wheel bearings need special tools to be fitted and the lock nut that holds it needs to be torqued up to 200ft/lb so not a job you can do at home ( unless you have a proper work shop set up)

Yes, the castor correction bushes should correct the alignment but when you have them fitted make sure the mushroom bush at the rear of the radius arms are not perished so change them while the arms are out. Your goal with the caster correction is to rotate the diff close to the factory position

Reidy
10th May 2014, 08:09 PM
Mate you are spot on again!!

When turning it feels as though its having a half hearted go and then all of a sudden whips around. No noise from the bearings at all but D/S has a bit of play so I will just give them a tighten up. I will put the new panhard bushes in tomorrow hopefully, and adjust the bearings. The radius arm bushes will have to wait till I have someone to help me I think. The picture you attached mate is that rear bearing's?

Again thanks for your help and advice mate I appreciate the help. Hopefully can shout you a beer or 10 someday..

Drewboyaus
10th May 2014, 08:57 PM
Right there is another good reason why being a participating forum member is so much better than just grabbing a workshop manual.

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Alitis007
11th May 2014, 12:14 AM
Mate you are spot on again!! When turning it feels as though its having a half hearted go and then all of a sudden whips around. No noise from the bearings at all but D/S has a bit of play so I will just give them a tighten up. I will put the new panhard bushes in tomorrow hopefully, and adjust the bearings. The radius arm bushes will have to wait till I have someone to help me I think. The picture you attached mate is that rear bearing's? Again thanks for your help and advice mate I appreciate the help. Hopefully can shout you a beer or 10 someday.. Nah mate those bearing torque settings under the alignment spec's are for the engine internals, that pic i took was from my "bible" its a service book i use to tell me everything i need to know when i'm servicing customers cars. And no dramas mate, hopefully around a good fire too!! :)



Right there is another good reason why being a participating forum member is so much better than just grabbing a workshop manual. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner A little bit of experience helps more than words on a paper/screen lol

Reidy
11th May 2014, 12:16 AM
Ha ha righto mate. Shows how much I know at the moment.

Alitis007
11th May 2014, 12:19 AM
Ha ha righto mate. Shows how much I know at the moment.

Dw you'll get there, we all started somewhere mate. Before you can diagnose and repair something you need to understand how it works. On the tool experience helps but with out that understanding its pretty hard

Reidy
11th May 2014, 12:36 AM
Oh well I got the fixit bug now so should have bit more know how eventually. . Hey mate what type of castor correction bush do you recommend?

Alitis007
11th May 2014, 11:47 AM
I think usually the 2degree ones are the go, not sure if they come in rubber or not but i've seen a few in noelethane. I'm not sure what is available on the market coz i haven't had a need to look for them for the time being maybe some one who does might be able to steer you towards a good type or brand to use. There are tons of threads about 2" lifts on this forum so just have a quick search and do some reading. If you still have trouble start a new thread asking whats best BUT i highly recommend you search the forum first, not only will you get a better understanding about the lift process but it might also answer any question you have about it in the future

Ironman 4x4
11th May 2014, 09:57 PM
Oh well I got the fixit bug now so should have bit more know how eventually. . Hey mate what type of castor correction bush do you recommend?

We actually do a caster bush kit for GUs. They are a 2 degree polyurethane. 1144SK is the part number, $121.00 RRP.

Cheers,

Matt
Ironman 4x4

Drewboyaus
11th May 2014, 10:03 PM
How hard is the polyurethane?
I've heard the bushes flog out very quickly if they're too hard, hence the nolathane ones are crap for 4by's.
Do you guys do rubber ones? I see you can buy rubber castor correction bushes these days but I have no idea of the quality....or longevity......but the theory would be that the "should" be better than other options.

Ironman 4x4
11th May 2014, 10:22 PM
Nolathene is a brand of polyurethane, but is generally harder than the polyurethane that we use in our bushes. Our bushes are like this:
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y517/matthewperk/Castor-Bush-Kit_zps4794efb3.jpg (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/matthewperk/media/Castor-Bush-Kit_zps4794efb3.jpg.html)

The polyurethane holds the bush in place better than a rubber one would (less flex and movement), and due to what the bush is holding, it doesn't need as much torsional flex as other bushes (which is where the rubber bushes are superior). We don't have issues with them (and have them installed in a number of our own company vehicles). But if you ever did, our warranty is there to back them up.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers,

Matt
Ironman 4x4