PATROL ELECTRICAL GREMILIN'S....dont feed 'em after midnight

[MS29431]

Ahh the joys!.... Has anyone had this happen to there patrol or know of this happening or how to fix this problem??: 3 out of 4 of the the dash gauges (oil press,temp and fuel) are waving around (registering for a sec then die) at idle then when you get out on the road they just die ive had the dash apart, the cluster apart traced wire's back and found nothing????? Just wondering if anyone's come across this before and how to rectify it as in attached pics you can see i hav'nt moved the vehicle and they just go out just like ive cut the power ive gone over everything i can think of but to no avail!..... Im thinking dry solder joint in cluster plugs, exessive water in cabin area, stuffed cluster but i am not sure any info/help would be greatly appreciated thank you,

[the evil twin]

Man, that can be soooo frustrating...

What is the go with your voltmeter?... Can you expand on what it is reading when...
Ign off
Ign on instruments working
Ign on and fault present
Engine running and fault present
and, finally...
Do you notice any flickering in the vehicle lights

It is possible it is a remote fault in earthing or even the Alternator if the fault isn't there when the engine is off but tell us some more and we'll see how we go

[MQ MAD]

Either a stray volt ,bit like a stray cat you cant see them but they are there
Bad earth
Cross arc in wires somewhere, a cut or something
Water in behind dash on cluster causing rust in contacts ect
To many variables
Do you have a volt meter handy

[MQ MAD]

Also remove your fuse box/holder and check wires behind that
Breaks in the wires,rusty looking wires ect
Water is prone to leak from the screen on to the fuse holder

[patch697]

My fuel gauge started working in reverse yesterday so I'll have a look & post up what I find.

In the mean time any advice on wear to look first???

[MQ MAD]

The main issues with electrics is process of illimination un fortunately
What is a problem/cause for one mite not be the problem/cause for another
The main cause are, well age of stuff,broken wires,rusty wires,corrosion,broke earths,bad earths,then fuses ect
Just way to many variables on these oldish 4x4s
Handy tip
Read and study wiring schematics for the car and buy and learn how to use a volt meter
A volt meter will probably 1 of the best tools youll ever buy

[patch697]

The main issues with electrics is process of illimination un fortunately
What is a problem/cause for one mite not be the problem/cause for another
The main cause are, well age of stuff,broken wires,rusty wires,corrosion,broke earths,bad earths,then fuses ect
Just way to many variables on these oldish 4x4s
Handy tip
Read and study wiring schematics for the car and buy and learn how to use a volt meter
A volt meter will probably 1 of the best tools youll ever buy

Yep got a meter & wouldn't be with out it & also agree with your post but as you know some problems can be a stand out simple fix that can sometimes take days to find without a little info & that was the aim of the question.

[ripper]

I only know a little bit about fuel gauges, and having it work backwards doesn't mean anything to me.

Not sure if this is safe with an EFI model, so user beware.
You might be able to isolate where the problem is if you can get the wire that goes to the sender unit and earth it out.
If the gauge swings from full to empty as you touch it to an earth and then take it away again, I think that tells you your gauge is fine and the sender is the problem.
If the gauge doesn't change as you connect and disconnect an earth, I think the gauge is the problem.

[MQ MAD]

Patch,
Checked out the trouble shooting guide in 1 of the bibles here,

Loose connection,Poor or loose connection
Check wiring and/or repair connection,correct connector terminal contact

Guage pointer read "F" but returns to original position when ign turned off
Faulty fuel tank guage unit
Replace

Fuel pointer indicates"F" position even when ign turned off
Faulty fuel level guage
Replace

Hope that steers ya in the right direction

[MS29431]

These pics are taken at: 1.IGN OFF, 2.IGN ON, 3. STARTUP, 4. REVERSING OUT, 5.TAKING OFF IN 1st, 6. DRIVING 60-80kph, 7. DRIVING 100kph. I have a multimeterbut dont know enough about it to work it properly for what i want to check.. The volt meter works fine and i dont have to have oil press or water temp as i can get them aftermarket its just the fuel gauge i liked to have working cause as we all know you dont let a DIESEL run out of fuel and also there is no dimming of lights as asked earlier, This problem happened once before and the gauges did'nt work for 6-10months and i took 'er to the snow and got bogged in 4wd in a snow storm and left a Qtr vent window open and as the snow melted the dash came back to life but that was 3yrs ago and have worked fine since any tips on using a multimeter would be a great help also thanks for your feedback....MS

[MQ MAD]

Volt guage looks fine
The fuel guage ???
Slide up under the car just near the right rear wheel and just in front of the fuel tank will be the fuel tank sender wiring clip into the main harness
Check that for broken wires ,maybe pull it apart blow it out a bit,check for any damage then put back together
The wire from the tank to this join can be tight and over time wires start to break
Hence why you have power sometimes then not other times

That would be the first place id look

[MS29431]

Thankyou to everyone that tried to point me in the right direction on this topic over the last week or so
Well here's the problem.... 3/4 small cluster gauges (oil press, water temp, fuel) were not reading accuratly they were fluctuating and therefore not giving any true readings.
The volt meter was still fine, I had the dash/cluster apart several times in the last 2-3 weeks checking for dry solder joints broken wires etc... found nothing.. sprayed contact cleaner in anything i could find it worked for 35- 40 mins then.... nothing.... so by now i was thinking the sender's must be stuffed from mud water etc (i had been shooting and mud bashing a fair bit recently) so i was thinking of buying after market mechanical gauges to solve it.... good idea but then i still have no diesel gauge and you want one of them to prevent having to bleed 'em when they catch you out with no fuel.... by this stage i was not happy and lost on what to do...
Then an old mate came 'round, and asked to have a look at the cluster pulled it apart and(for the 4th time in 6 day's) and after 'bout 40sec's he say's "Well There's Ya Problem Mikey".....I did'nt see 'em earlyer but there are little wire's behind the gauges that look like metal fishing line and they were all tangled which arc'ed out shorting 'em out and killing them... they then become throw away items....Great! so i went looking 'round wreakers and got one got it home only to find that the tacho and speedo did'nt work.... ha ha just my luck.. but after root'n around with cluster bit's all day i've finaly made 1 cluster out of 2 and along with an l.e.d. upgrade it works perfectly.... bit of a long story i know.... but its been a long day.
thanks to everyone for there help on this subject...
And a big thanks to cale from cale's mobile auto electrical for finding out what exactly was wrong..thanks old mate!.... Mike

[Finly Owner]

I was just studying your pics. And I noticed Volt Meter:

Pic 1 Ignition off - no volts (correct)
Pic 2 Ignition on - approx 11V(little under charged)
Pic 3 Ignition Starting - voltage rising( should show drop at starting, due to draw on battery)
The rest look normal for driving.

Just an observation.

Tim

[MS29431]

Sorry about the blurry pics that show were the little wires that i was describing earlyer but you get the idea

[MQ MAD]

Tim,
Wouldnt pic 2 IGN on
Be a little drop for the glow relay ???

Pic 3
Would be running , so looks fine

[Finly Owner]

yeah that would explain it. cheers

[MS29431]

Thank's for all your feedback new cluster is working well as i've said i had no probs running aftermarket gauges for oil,temp and volt i just needed the fuel gauge to know how much diesel was in the tank, I had been counting kms and using a piece of welding wire also to dip into tank to see how much was in there... but now were back in the game!
also a thank you to Overland 4X4 wreakers in cambellfield i had to wait around for a bit but they gave me a discount for that
Mike