Connecting batteries & the winch - which way is best?

[Cuppa]

Following on from discussion (largely with myself) on Ova50’s thread ("http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?24529-My-Dual-Battery-Install”) detailing his very tidy installation I thought a separate thread inviting folks to talk about how their winch & batteries are connected (& why) might be both interesting & possibly a useful resource?




When I sussed out which battery to wire it to, there seems to be two schools of thought on the subject.


It does seem, as usual, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. No right or wrong way.

As I now understand it: (& I would still be interested in the thoughts of experienced winchers)

One school - run winch off aux battery with a VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) between the two batteries as in Ova50’s install. Advantage is that it ensures that you can’t flatten your crank battery by winching, stall the motor & be stuck in the middle of the creek. Disadvantage is shorter aux battery life & less power available to the winch.

Another school - have winch connected to starter battery & paralleled to aux battery via VSR. Advantage - more direct connection between alternator output & winch, so potentially a bit more ‘oomph available. Disadvantage is possibility of flattening crank battery, although this is mitigated by constant alternator input.

And yet another school - Winch connected to either crank or aux battery & in addition to using a VSR to ensure that sufficient starting power is retained in the crank battery during normal use of accessories (i.e.. not winching), having a manual means of paralleling the two batteries via a very heavy cable to bypass the ‘bottleneck’ of the VSR. Advantage - spreads the load more evenly over a greater battery capacity (treating the batteries more kindly to lengthen their life) & allows a bit less voltage drop to the winch making the whole affair a bit more efficient. Disadvantage - the possibility of forgetting to disconnect when finished winching, running the risk of letting the fridge etc flatten the crank battery. Also adds more expense & a little more complexity.

With all VSR installations, there is the option of using a higher amperage VSR (e.g.Redarc make a 200amp model) which as far as I can see is likely to be a pretty reasonable compromise between the manually connected heavy parallel cable the ‘bottleneck’ of the 100amp VSR

There may also be other ways of doing it that I am unaware of.

My setup is the third, but with a DC to DC charger in place of the VSR. The winch connected to the crank battery, which is paralleled with 360ah of aux batteries via 70mm2 cable & a high continuous amp capacity manual switch & high capacity megafuses. Over the top for most folk, yes, but I had other reasons for the aux battery capacity in the pod, & chose to then reduce weight a bit by removing the existing under bonnet aux battery & tray. In hindsight the connecting cable’s weight is probably close to that of the battery I removed! (but having the connection does offer other flexibilities).
The setup works, but as yet has never been ‘tested in anger’ in ‘heavy’ winching situations. In this respect I am a total novice.

Please tell us about your set up & why you chose to go that way as well as whether your setup has been up to your expectations ‘in the field’, or whether you would do it differently if starting again.

Cuppa

[Winnie]

My winch is hooked straight to the back of the second alternator (so basically connected to the main cranking battery). The winch works and that's okay with me.

[TimE]

OK, gently opening the can of worms and here goes.

My winch is wired directly to the starter battery (a 760cca jobbie). When used engine is run at a fast idle to try and get a bit of charge back into the battery and this battery can cope with the high current draw demanded by the winch.

My Aux batteries (I have 2) are both AGMs, my understanding is they do not like being drained by high current draw devices like winches.

In the event that I flatten the starter battery I still have the two Aux batteries to flick over to to start the engine.

My 2c worth.

Came across this video for what it is worth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZrl_nCA1d8

[04OFF]

My winch is connected to the main starter battery, when the car is running, both batteries are connected via the battery solenoid.

The other thing i did was to put the winch solenoid in the engine bay, that way you DONT have live wires right at the front of the car all the time, only when the winch is active.(plus its up out of water)

Also a overide switch inside the cab is a good idea, that way someone cannot hotwire the winch from the outside of the car.




When i rolled my car onto its roof, the IGN got turned off just after, and so when i started winching, it only used what was in the main starter battery, i winched the car back over on its wheels, then tried to start the car a number of times, it was still on a lean, wedged into a sand bank at this stage.

When i could not get it to start, i then had to winch the car forward out onto the flat beach, with hopes of it starting, so more winching again, then more cranking to get it started, eventually it fired, then stalled (probly due to the 4L of oil in the intake system,lol) next attempt it stayed running.



I feel like i have real world tested my set up, and im very happy it worked well, and enabled us to drive the car out and back toward home, so mine will stay just as it is :biggrin:

[threedogs]

X 2 on the over ride switch a few years back now ,low lifes were slicing 4x4 in half just for the fun of it,
every 4x4 with a winch should have this over ride switch,
Mine is wired the same as 4OFF
Winches love CCA so makes sense to use start battery

[macca]

My winch when installed for use, its on a cradle and removed when not needed, is connected to the cranker via a 350amp Anderson. It can be put in the tow bar receiver as well. There is a pair of welding wires run to the rear for this purpose again using 350amp Anderson's.
Under the bonnet are 2 cranker type batteries, and a high current red key type isolator to manually connect them when winching. This saves burning out the VSR contactor.
It works a treat and having 2 batteries the winch gets good volts so is expected to run at its best.
Good thread by the way Cuppa

[Cuppa]

My winch when installed for use, its on a cradle and removed when not needed, is connected to the cranker via a 350amp Anderson. It can be put in the tow bar receiver as well.

Do you have any pics of this arrangement Macca?it sounds very similar to another mates set up on his OKA.

Cuppa

[macca]

A link to the thread of the build

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?5714-My-winch-has-sclerosis-of-the-windings

The pics from there

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh94/maccas01/Nissan/IMG_3230.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh94/maccas01/Nissan/IMG_3231.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh94/maccas01/Nissan/IMG_3233.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh94/maccas01/Nissan/IMG_3234.jpg

[megatexture]

I do like that setup macca but I know it would annoy me lol as I'd be to confident I'm going to make it through and then have to connect it in the mud lol

Also my set up is like 040ff that its connected to the starter and I've never had any issues and done some steep long pulls though I do keep an eye on the volt gauge

[liftlid]

Gotta be connected to the same battery as the alternator so that the battery can be given as much recharge as possible.
A battery alone will never be good enough on a heavy winch and needs every little bit of help possible

[04OFF]

The way i see it......

Winches are made to work 100% correctly in cars with only ONE battery.

If you add a second battery, why would you change the winch wiring over to run off it ?

[liftlid]

You can add more battery's to increase winching time though you have to be able to charge the battery enough before the next winch

[sil3nt_dr3ams]

Following on from discussion (largely with myself) on Ova50’s thread ("http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?24529-My-Dual-Battery-Install”) detailing his very tidy installation I thought a separate thread inviting folks to talk about how their winch & batteries are connected (& why) might be both interesting & possibly a useful resource?



It does seem, as usual, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. No right or wrong way.

As I now understand it: (& I would still be interested in the thoughts of experienced winchers)

One school - run winch off aux battery with a VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay) between the two batteries as in Ova50’s install. Advantage is that it ensures that you can’t flatten your crank battery by winching, stall the motor & be stuck in the middle of the creek. Disadvantage is shorter aux battery life & less power available to the winch.

Another school - have winch connected to starter battery & paralleled to aux battery via VSR. Advantage - more direct connection between alternator output & winch, so potentially a bit more ‘oomph available. Disadvantage is possibility of flattening crank battery, although this is mitigated by constant alternator input.

And yet another school - Winch connected to either crank or aux battery & in addition to using a VSR to ensure that sufficient starting power is retained in the crank battery during normal use of accessories (i.e.. not winching), having a manual means of paralleling the two batteries via a very heavy cable to bypass the ‘bottleneck’ of the VSR. Advantage - spreads the load more evenly over a greater battery capacity (treating the batteries more kindly to lengthen their life) & allows a bit less voltage drop to the winch making the whole affair a bit more efficient. Disadvantage - the possibility of forgetting to disconnect when finished winching, running the risk of letting the fridge etc flatten the crank battery. Also adds more expense & a little more complexity.

With all VSR installations, there is the option of using a higher amperage VSR (e.g.Redarc make a 200amp model) which as far as I can see is likely to be a pretty reasonable compromise between the manually connected heavy parallel cable the ‘bottleneck’ of the 100amp VSR

There may also be other ways of doing it that I am unaware of.

My setup is the third, but with a DC to DC charger in place of the VSR. The winch connected to the crank battery, which is paralleled with 360ah of aux batteries via 70mm2 cable & a high continuous amp capacity manual switch & high capacity megafuses. Over the top for most folk, yes, but I had other reasons for the aux battery capacity in the pod, & chose to then reduce weight a bit by removing the existing under bonnet aux battery & tray. In hindsight the connecting cable’s weight is probably close to that of the battery I removed! (but having the connection does offer other flexibilities).
The setup works, but as yet has never been ‘tested in anger’ in ‘heavy’ winching situations. In this respect I am a total novice.

Please tell us about your set up & why you chose to go that way as well as whether your setup has been up to your expectations ‘in the field’, or whether you would do it differently if starting again.

Cuppa

Is it possible to see some pictures of your setup ?

[Cuppa]

Is it possible to see some pictures of your setup ?

Hi sil3nt_dr3ams,
I suppose I can take some pics, but I’m not sure how useful they would be as all you would see would be pics of separate components as they are all in different places.
What might make more sense is my charging system wiring diagram. If you want pics of any specific components let me know.
Note that the ‘Y’ switch was only installed as a means of bypassing the 100amp battery monitor shunt whilst using higher winch currents. In this event the battery monitor would need to be rest after winching & once the batteries were fully recharged (back into float mode on the charger). If starting again it would be simpler & cheaper to pay more for a higher capacity battery monitor in the first place.
Cuppa

[the evil twin]

snip...
It does seem, as usual, there’s more than one way to skin a cat. No right or wrong way.



Cuppa

... and there you have it in a nutsell cobber :beer:

There are too many if's or does?
Does the vehicle have more than two batteries (mine does if the camper is connected)
Does the vehicle have a high current paralleling set up (manual or 200 amp Redarc etc)
Does the vehicle do heaps of winching or once in a blue moon
Does the vehicle have a Cranker in the Aux Battery position or a deep cycle Full River for example (they HATE high current loads)
Does the vehicle owner use removeable winches/cradles
... the list goes on...
but the bottom line is there are several methods.

Mine is wired across the Cranker and I have a Cranker in the Aux battery position and a dual sensing Redarc which drops out the Aux pretty smartly under continuous winching or immediately of the Alternator isn't running ( I checked out of curiousity as I would normally have it running).

I always advocate useing a snatch block rigged to advantage if there is a heavy winch load. The reason being the drain on the battery is not linear as current increases and the lower the load on the winch then that allows the Alternator to assume a much higher percentage of the electrical load

Bottom line of that is you can winch heaps longer on a given battery capacity keeping in mind winch duty cycle