Another 2" Lift Thread

[coiled]

Hey All

After reading the various threads and speaking to a few people I have come up with the below spring & shock combo which I can source for about $950 supply only. This is to go on a 2013 Y61 ST 3L Manual which carries minimal in the rear but regularly tows a camper with 250kg ball weight and will have a Bar & winch w/ wire fitted hopefully before Xmas.
King Springs -
Front - KDFR-42HD
Rear - KDPR-58LP
OME Nitrocharger Sports to suit

My questions are
1) Does anyone run a similar spring setup (preferably and shocks) and, if so, what are your thoughts?
2) How much does the rear sag with a heavy load using these springs
3) Installation - I know how to install springs and shocks but wondering how difficult it is on a Patrol without using a hoist? Are there any pointers or techniques that have worked for others? I have highlift trolley jack, car stands, scissor jack perhaps use between diff and chassis.

Cheers

[Drewboyaus]

Any reason why you wouldn't use OME springs as well?

[coiled]

Drewboy, partly being a tight @r$e as the OME will cost about 40% more. I have been for a full tour of KS manufacturing plant and am quite impressed with the quality of their design & manufacturing so wouldn't consider them inferior by any stretch but also pretty sure they make OME anyway making them on par for quality. The kit recommended by ARB is without the progressive rate coils in the rear which I think will benefit me given I carry either almost no load or 250kg of ball weight from my camper trailer which is pretty regularly.

The info I am seeking in relation to the springs is do they level up well in this application, perform ok in day to day and flex equal or better than stock whilst unloaded and not sag in the butt too much when loaded as the stock springs drop almost 5" as I wind the jockey wheel down making for a very nose high rig.

[Drewboyaus]

Just to clear one common misconception about OEM's (I work for a company that uses them); just because a Company X manufactures Spring A for Company A, it doesn't mean Spring X and Spring A will be the same. Quality maybe but design and fit for purpose not so much. ARB match their own springs to their shocks. It is one of the upsides to the pre-tuned "packges" from OME to suit specific vehicles. Just needed to make that point because I hate it at work when I sell against an OEM who claims their stuff is the same as ours because it is not. Not saying that KS aren't good quality, but they are not the same as OME.
What is your car being used for?
I haven't looked up the links but I assume they are progressive rate springs you are considering?
In the grand scheme of your vehicle and how many years you will have it, springs are pretty cheap (even for the expensive ones). With my Q, I now make sure I buy the best (within reason) gear and do it once.....not saying Kings aren't ok, but if you're touring and towing I would be getting matched springs and shock combo.
I have continuous rate springs in mine and that is because it is my weekender and spends its life full of gear ready to hit the bush. Fridge, drawers, rear bar, etc, etc. Same in the front with bar, winch etc. Think very carefully about what you will be adding to your truck. Roof rack for going away? Fridge?
If you're doing the springs before all your mods are completed you need to account for every kg that you plan to have on it in the worst case scenario.
So, after I did my suspension, mine handled like a go-kart until I started to rack up the mods and kg's. Now I'm getting towards the end of my mods, it rides and flexes as I intended it would and I'm quite pleased.
But it all depends on how you use your car and in your case progressive rate springs might be the go by the sound of it.

[threedogs]

Your drivers side spring will be a tad shorter too to cater for driver only situations and level out your Patrol
When done you should have a slight down hill look, I have EFS 2" and tow a Lightish Camper ,under 1.5t.
MY suspension is now 3 years old and not sagging yet, next I'll be putting in 3" flexi coils

Edit should read a tad taller

[Clunk]

Your drivers side spring will be a tad shorter too to cater for driver only situations and level out your Patrol
When done you should have a slight down hill look, I have EFS 2" and tow a Lightish Camper ,under 1.5t.
MY suspension is now 3 years old and not sagging yet, next I'll be putting in 3" flexi coils

TD, drivers side are longer aren't they? To compensate for driver and battery and maybe sub tank if fitted.

[coiled]

Thanks for responses.

So does anyone have experience using the King Springs listed below?
Front - KDFR-42HD
Rear - KDPR-58LP

[Drewboyaus]

You will probably struggle to get a response with regard to those specific springs because everyone's ride is different and used for different things.
You may get a more general response though in relation to King springs and their suitability.
We can't tell you what springs to use because it's your rig, set up for you and used your way. That is a decision only you can make. If you are happy after a tour of the factory buy the springs.

[coiled]

If you are happy after a tour of the factory buy the springs. Drewboy, Don't take this the wrong way but do you have a problem? I hear what you are saying about OEM and don't disagree as I deal in this all day everyday too. Being comfortable with the brand has nothing to do with appropriate spring selection from the options.

I would have thought catalogue raised springs to suit a Patrol with a bar & winch & carrying/owing some load would be a reasonably well trodden path given the amount of owners out there. I was hoping someone might be able to say I have these mods/carry this weight and find them too soft/hard or they sag too much with a load etc. Something to cross reference.

I was also hoping someone might be able to make some suggestions on Patrol specific tips that may make a spring and shock swap in the back yard a bit easier.

[taslucas]

I would have thought catalogue raised springs to suit a Patrol with a bar & winch & carrying/owing some load would be a reasonably well trodden path given the amount of owners out there. I was hoping someone might be able to say I have these mods/carry this weight and find them too soft/hard or they sag too much with a load etc. Something to cross reference.



While there are general rules, what you're asking for there is peoples personal opinions about how they like their shocks to feel. The only person that can answer that for you is you.
There are hundreds of variables and quite a lot of threads on this subject.
A suspension specialist will be able to recommend a setup for the weight you carry and the driving you do but it still comes down to personal feel




I was also hoping someone might be able to make some suggestions on Patrol specific tips that may make a spring and shock swap in the back yard a bit easier.

There are also loads of threads with useful tips.
You can use the forums search function in the top right of the screen.

[Drewboyaus]

Drewboy, Don't take this the wrong way but do you have a problem?

No mate. I do not.

I stand by my previous posts.
If you are looking for validation of your choice you may not find what you are looking for.
There are many, many different spring/shock combinations. Especially if you are talking about springs only. With the different variations of springs to suit your vehicle, there are also many combinations of shocks that could be used with your choice of springs. All these different combinations will give different ride and handling characteristics. All of which are mainly subjective. There is no guarantee that anyone reading this will be running the same combination you are considering as what you are considering is not a "catalogue" purchase, as you put it. It is in fact a custom spring/shock combination. A catalogue purchase is to buy a kit of matched springs and shocks from OME, Ironman, Toughdog, Lovell's etc.....
If you are looking for installation info, this has been covered in a number of different threads.

[MudRunnerTD]

You should be very careful setting your car up for Towing only and running it empty the rest of teh time. You will hate it Most of the time! when Towing it will be great but the rest of teh time it will be horrible and harsh. Drew adn Lucas are on the right path mate.

Your problem is you hope that the Part Number might mean something to someone?? I have a matched set of Old Man Emu Springs and Shocks, I have No Idea the part numbers though?? Short of grabbing the receipt of purchase and searching i have no idea.

The GQ is the same. I put it over the weigh bridge then spoke to Superiors and they decided out of their product catalogue what best suits my needs. If they got it wrong then i hand them back mate.

For the money that you are considering then you really should be looking at spending the extra and going a matched set of Old Man Emu Springs and Shocks. The list price is $1159 inc GST.

I agree 100% with Drew's statement about the Quality of the OME springs and regardless if they are also made by Kings you should not assume them to be the same.

Given that you want a nice car unloaded that will flex well then you have little chance of also having a car that will tow well. If you have a car that carries some load all the time and travels well and flexes well it will be nice and will likely tow well too. My GUIV is a 3" lift OME and i have drawers int eh back, (Empty most of the time but i love it) It travels well loaded and unloaded with a Longrange tank and rear bar. Now that i have added the rear bar i am thinking of fixing the Polyair bags in the back for the towing duties.

I would be investigating the Polyairs if i was you.

I note also your original post suggested that you have read a heap on here about a 2" lift, if you have then you Must have seen the Countless threads on the tips and tricks for fitting a 2" lift in the driveway in a couple of hours. use the Search function and have a bit of a look, if your still stuck yell out and i will use the search function and find them for you no probs. Heaps mate.

[4wdreaming]

Sorry about the hijacking
Just picked up the troll from arb after getting a 2" lift and all i gained was 10mm in the front is that normal ?

[taslucas]

Sorry about the hijacking
Just picked up the troll from arb after getting a 2" lift and all i gained was 10mm in the front is that normal ?

Hmmm....
2" should be closer to 2" than 1/2"...

Where did you measure before and after?
What is the difference in the rear?
What sort of weight do you have hanging off it (bar, winch etc etc) and was the suspension matched to the accessory weight?

[4wdreaming]

I measured from the diff axle to the chassy before and after
right next to the springs

[4wdreaming]

Just pulled out the paper work
Yep even that says only 10mm
Will post pick

[Covo71]

Hi Coiled,
Hearing you mate. Can't tell you much about the spring and shock set up as a set but I just put in a Dobinson set of coils and shocks a few weeks ago and pretty happy. I got some great advice off of hear from one of the blokes on how to do it and it made it so much easier. The only thing I would do if I was doing it again would be I would go and buy a 17mm & 19mm ratchet spanners, not sockets. Mine is a 2004 and not sure how the access is to a few of the nuts but it would have made it so much easier. And I knew one spring was bigger but I still put it on the wrong side and then had to go back and change. Good luck.

[taslucas]

Just pulled out the paper work
Yep even that says only 10mm
Will post pick

So you agreed on a 2" lift but the paperwork says 10mm?

[MudRunnerTD]

Sorry about the hijacking
Just picked up the troll from arb after getting a 2" lift and all i gained was 10mm in the front is that normal ?

No, ask them for an explanation.

[4wdreaming]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36494
here is a pic of their measurements

[4wdreaming]

So you agreed on a 2" lift but the paperwork says 10mm?
nah paper work doesnt say when i went in they asked about what i wanted (2"lift) and what was on it
steel bar & winch up front
100 kg carry in the rear most of the time

[4wdreaming]

No, ask them for an explanation.
yep on my way back there in the morning

[happygu]

yep on my way back there in the morning

You may have already had 2" lift springs installed beforehand, and the fronts had sagged a little....

[4wdreaming]

that too ran through my head . but i had got the 50mm i wanted on the back, but didn't get the 50 i wanted on the front

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36494

[4wdreaming]

she sat pretty level before this arvo. now she sits like a 100 series (shudder) with her nose to the ground and ass in the air

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36495
as she sat with standard tires before lift

[happygu]

she sat pretty level before this arvo. now she sits like a 100 series (shudder) with her nose to the ground and ass in the air

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36495
as she sat with standard tires before lift

Ha, Ha, Ha ... I like it.


Nothing worse than a bum dragger though ...... load it up and see how it sits

Mic

[happygu]

she sat pretty level before this arvo. now she sits like a 100 series (shudder) with her nose to the ground and ass in the air

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36495
as she sat with standard tires before lift

Doesn't look like 2" lift - looks standard to me

[4wdreaming]

rear after 2" lift with 285 70 17 ( just under 33)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=36496
so i don't think they gave me 2" in the front

[4wdreaming]

quick update went in this morning to talk to them, was told 10mm gain was not right and will have to wait till Monday for the boss to get in to see what can be done about it

[Drewboyaus]

quick update went in this morning to talk to them, was told 10mm gain was not right and will have to wait till Monday for the boss to get in to see what can be done about it

Whaaaat? Sounds like they put the wrong front springs in.....
Surely they can confirm that on the spot, get the manager on the bliwer and change them over.

[4wdreaming]

Sorry for the late up date, had to leave for brissy in a hurry monday night (my wife got her kidney transplant wahoo :) )

The response i got from ARB was, "yep they are right springs" and they all sit down like that in the frount :banghead:

[coiled]

Well I went ahead and installed the below selecting the heavier dampening option for the shocks of the two available from OME. Self install was an easy enough process that only took a few hours with the hardest part being the overtightened nuts (It was only 3 weeks old so no rust or dirt at that point) on the front factory shocks. These springs gave the 2in lift with a bit more in the rear but sits down to 2in when the 250kg ball weight of the camper is wound down.

Here are a few pics with lift installed, the difference between stock & OME front shocks and the little fella inspecting my work - http://l.bitcasa.com/uhpvVBse

We have driven it around town a bit whilst unloaded and yes it is firmer but handles a lot better and doesn't get unsettled on pot holes etc like the stock suspension. Also said to the mrs that the front should improve once we put the bar and winch on and she said ok but thought the ride was fine. I have now done over 500km of towing with the new springs (some on corrugated dirt at high and low speeds) and not only is it much better handling but it sits perfect. I haven't done any proper trails in it whilst unloaded but had the opportunity to do a "ramp test" on a big dirt mound over the weekend and have no concerns over these springs limiting articulation whilst unloaded. I will provide further comment after the right opportunity presents.

Suspension selected.
King Springs -
Front - KDFR-42HD
Rear - KDPR-58LP
OME Nitrocharger Sports - Heavier dampened option

[DSzuke]

Coiled... that pic is the stock tyres with the 2" springs yes? It looks good.

You're not expecting to do any castor correction? (I'd imagine you probably don't need it)

I'm not far off doing mine so have been following this thread with interest.

ps: how much fun is it doing stuff on the car with a little "helper"! Mine's driving me crazy!

[coiled]

Coiled... that pic is the stock tyres with the 2" springs yes? It looks good.

You're not expecting to do any castor correction? (I'd imagine you probably don't need it)

I'm not far off doing mine so have been following this thread with interest.

ps: how much fun is it doing stuff on the car with a little "helper"! Mine's driving me crazy!

Yes mate, stock tyres & the springs as listed from the King Springs standard parts list as raised which is typically 2in depending on vehicle loads etc. I bought the OME sway bar mount lowering kit but didn't bother installing as it wasn't needed after checking full droop etc. I haven't done any castor correction and it drives absolutely fine. Towing or not I have had it up to about 120 (run up for steep hills as you come north from the Gong) and no adverse steering feedback.

It is probably frowned upon from a safety perspective but having the little guy get in and check everything out made it a great day. I even had him putting the washers & bushes on the front shocks for me so he was technically helping :-D which I thought was a top effort for an 11month old.