Must Have Basic 4x4 Recovery Kit

[AB]

Everyone who ventures off road should have a Basic Kit in their vehicle consisting of: snatch strap, rated shackles, map, uhf radio & first aid kit.

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[ilikedonuts_10]

Hi mate was just wondering what the best snatch strap would be for a budget?

[Finly Owner]

The correct rated one, safety has no budget.

[YNOT]

The correct rated one, safety has no budget.

Exactly right Tim. Saving $20 on a snatch strap will be insignificant if it fails and someone gets injured or killed. Recovering a stuck vehicle is dangerous, ALL recovery gear gear must be good quality with the correct ratings to do the job.

Tony

[tkn]

This might not be what you had in mind when starting the thread, but it might be a help.

Seems that “spot the dummy” is popular. But what is a safe standard recovery “system” ?

I’ll jump in the deep end and put up what I think is a (general) minimum and others can pull it apart, add to it, etc. so the result might be a safe and practical (not perfect) system –

1. Two 4.5T rated recovery points.
2. Each end of a 9T rated bridle chain or strap is fastened to a recovery point with a 4.5T rated shackle.
3. One end of a 9T rated strap (say 10 metres long) is fastened to the bridle strap or chain with a 9T rated shackle.
4. The other end of the 9T rated strap is fastened to a rated 9T synthetic winch cable with a 9T rated shackle.
5. The winch cable passes through a 9T rated snatch block that is fastened to both ends of 9T rated tree protector with a 9T rated shackle.
6. A “winch blanket” hangs on the winch cable and another “winch blanket” hangs on the 9T rated strap.

That system would not take a lot of time to set up and would offer safe working for a majority of recoveries.
Why 9T ratings? Covers difficult and easy recoveries – huge generalisation I know, but had to start somewhere. If 9T is too high – a possibility is to work to 4.5T total load for the system.
The 9T potential load is split between the winch (say 4.5T) and the recovery points (say 2.25T each) – all you need then is a tree or another vehicle (harnessed to a tree) to withstand the 9T that may be applied to the tree protector.

[DX grunt]

Thanks everybody for the info. I was going to ask the same question about this stuff. I've got it all, but don't know if its right.
I definately know my recovery points are up to speed, but need to go through the rest.

I'm going on a beach holiday in about 5 weeks, so it's very appropriate. Thanks again.

Take care out there.

Ross
DX grunt

[the evil twin]

This might not be what you had in mind when starting the thread, but it might be a help.

Seems that “spot the dummy” is popular. But what is a safe standard recovery “system” ?

I’ll jump in the deep end and put up what I think is a (general) minimum and others can pull it apart, add to it, etc. so the result might be a safe and practical (not perfect) system –

1. Two 4.5T rated recovery points.
2. Each end of a 9T rated bridle chain or strap is fastened to a recovery point with a 4.5T rated shackle.
3. One end of a 9T rated strap (say 10 metres long) is fastened to the bridle strap or chain with a 9T rated shackle.
4. The other end of the 9T rated strap is fastened to a rated 9T synthetic winch cable with a 9T rated shackle.
5. The winch cable passes through a 9T rated snatch block that is fastened to both ends of 9T rated tree protector with a 9T rated shackle.
6. A “winch blanket” hangs on the winch cable and another “winch blanket” hangs on the 9T rated strap.

That system would not take a lot of time to set up and would offer safe working for a majority of recoveries.
Why 9T ratings? Covers difficult and easy recoveries – huge generalisation I know, but had to start somewhere. If 9T is too high – a possibility is to work to 4.5T total load for the system.
The 9T potential load is split between the winch (say 4.5T) and the recovery points (say 2.25T each) – all you need then is a tree or another vehicle (harnessed to a tree) to withstand the 9T that may be applied to the tree protector.

9 Tonnes... Holy Cow, what are you planning on recovering... road trains. :D

The size of a 9 tonne rated shackle alone makes them almost prohibitive to carry in a Patrol. 4.2's are plenty big enough and a 9 ton snatch block allows doubling the pull

Given that most winches are 8 to 11 thousand pound (4 to 5 ton ballpark), Patrol size vehicle snatch straps are technically supposed to be no more than 8,000 Kg breaking load and Bridles, Extension straps are up to 4,500 Kg... 9 Ton equipment all through is waaay too much IMHO.

Rigged correctly for recovery you can easily get in excess of 9 tonnes pull with Patrol size gear using blocks, shackles, straps and a winch of 'standard' size such as a Warn XD900 or Tiger 12,000

[DX grunt]

Found this website. Don't know the company and have never dealt with them before.

There's a lot of good info and food for thought.

http://www.nobles.com.au/media/28543/16_vehicle_recovery.pdf

http://www.nobles.com.au/

[the evil twin]

Found this website. Don't know the company and have never dealt with them before.

There's a lot of good info and food for thought.

http://www.nobles.com.au/media/28543/16_vehicle_recovery.pdf

http://www.nobles.com.au/

Yeah, good mob, never had any issues with them... I think BHP lifting bought 'em out a while back but either way still good to deal with.

[the evil twin]

In reply to AB...

I consider the following as basic recovery gear.

1 Snatch strap (8,000 KG )
1 Bridle (4,500 KG)
2 Bow Shackles (rated min 3.7 but 4.2 preferred)
1 Drag Chain
1 pr Gloves (drag chains can pinch like a bitch)

...if your vehicle has a winch add

1 standard tree trunk protector (12,000 KG)
1 standard winch extension strap (4,500Kg) or rope (equiv or better than winch pull rating so around 4,500Kg min)
1 snatch block (9,000 KG)
2 more shackles for rigging the block etc

IF I am solo vehicle I personally carry more than that in the form of another extension, 2 Blocks instead of 1 and extra shackles but IMHO the above is what qualifies as a "basic" kit. The extra's are so I can use a redirection as well as a pull because you don't have the luxury of positioning another vehicle in just the right spot and Murphy (the mongrel) will surely have killed off the only suitable tree for a straight pull.

[boggy2006]

last months 4WD magazine destruction tested and recommended the TJM OX HD kit ($345) or Terrain Tamer $346 (another winner was $100 more). Can't find either on the net, anywhere near that price! Can anyone else find them?

[tkn]

The post by MudrunnerDT's post - Recovery - The Fundamentals gives a fair idea that 9000Kg may not be extraordinary in some circumstances.
I don't know how MudrunnerDT calculated his figures, but they do not appear to be unreasonable.
My choice is no snatch strap - too dangerous!

[Dhuck]

IMHO snatchies are dangerous but if used correctly and maintained correctly they are fine. If you are still uncomfortable using one install a cargo barrier or the sorts

[Bigrig]

Yep - snatch straps themselves (as we all know of late) are not the actual issue in most cases - it's the recovery points themselves that fail and they get just as little attention as the strap (how many people out there wash their straps down after each major use, allow to dry fully extended and then roll up again as per manufacturers recommendations?? not many I bet, they just keep getting used till something fails generally) ... that said (as you know dhuck after the other week) I am reluctant to get the snatch strap out without dire need, but rated recovery points, which I am getting on the back ASAP, cargo barriers to stop/slow projectiles that may penetrate the back window (not much good from the front though of course), etc, etc are all 'good measures' that can be taken ...

[tkn]

Have to disagree with the idea that a cargo barrier will stop a 200kph shackle.
They are simply not designed for that.

[Bigrig]

Have to disagree with the idea that a cargo barrier will stop a 200kph shackle.
They are simply not designed for that.

You're absolutely correct, but personally I'd rather one be there than not ... even if it took 20 klms off the projectile, it could be the difference between life and death .. that all said, I hope I (and all of you out there) never have to find out if that's the case ... that all said, I still revert back to PROPER rated recovery points ...

[Finly Owner]

I reckon, by the time you have the dampner slowing down strap and shackle etc, the the rear window and next the barrier, you should only end up with concussion.

[Patrica]

I have pulled out a few other fourbies in the past and about 90 percent of the time I had to use mine because they do not have their own, I don't mind bringing it out but the thing that really gets me is that they are travelling alone and not equip with proper recovery gear, it goes to show that just even having a snatch strap could make a difference.

[Bigrig]

I have pulled out a few other fourbies in the past and about 90 percent of the time I had to use mine because they do not have their own, I don't mind bringing it out but the thing that really gets me is that they are travelling alone and not equip with proper recovery gear, it goes to show that just even having a snatch strap could make a difference.

Here here!!! I am beyond surprise now and have moved into the frustration zone with the amount of (sorry to say it, but especially YOUNG) people out and about trying stuff - which in itself is great to see - without any recovery gear ... had one young bloke out on a trip in his mum and dads brand new landcruiser about 4 months ago - let me set the scene ... about 20 years old, has young girlfriend in the front passenger seat, has 40 psi in the All Terrain tyres that come standard with the Toys', had a big pair of those "Tom Cruise - Top Gun" sunglasses on, and was having a lash at an uphill climb that I barely made it up - got stuck about half way up and then proceeds to turn the wheel (I kid you not) to a full right lock thinking he should turn around!!!! After a few expletives from my mate and myself, telling him to put it in reverse (and 4 low as it turns out), straighten the wheel and walk back down, he then proceeds to take the chicken track around it ... no drama with that, get to the top, politely (seriously) inform him of some basics, and then he goes onto say he hasn't got a clue if "mum and dad have any gear in the car" ... our conversation ended at that point, I wished him well, told his girlfriend to put her helmet on, and left it at that ... you reckon mum and dad knew he had the car out there in the first place??? I doubt it ...

[Sir Roofy]

A lot of this problem is in 4x4 mags and dvd,s that a lot of young bucks reckon they can do these things on there own,jump into mum or dads 4by and head for the nearest bog
was up the bush one time and come across a couple stuck in a hole with mud and crap around them,asked him why he was in there as there was a perfectly good and solid track beside them
the answer,wanted to see what it could do in the mud,?????????dumb arse,wanted to just drive of and leave them in there,but being a true ausi we helped them out with a warning not to do that again as they cuold be stranded for days if we hadnt come along.DO NOT ATTEMPED THIS WITH OUT RECOVERY GEAR OR TAVELING IN A GROUP,printed on the covers

roofy

[tkn]

This post is long, but I think all of it has to be said.

The way this thread has been progressing opens a window on why people get killed and injured recovering vehicles.

Mechanical Systems

Any mechanical system comprises of a composite of different components and assemblies that together can be assembled to form a complete system suitable for a particular operation.

A “recovery kit” is just a specific name to describe a means of assembling a system for doing work i.e. safely recovering a vehicle.
Just as a car’s braking system is intended to work by bringing the vehicle safely to a halt.
Where there is a mismatch of components or assemblies – including the work capacity of each, whether that is called “Working Load Limit (WLL)” or some other specification – the system is inherently unstable and potentially dangerous i.e. it might kill someone.

Vehicle recovery is always a potentially dangerous operation, no matter who is doing or supervising it.
A “recovery kit” should be a readily usable system for doing the work and also a control system, such that the work may be completed SAFELY!

SAFETY.

You will find screeds written about it, but there is a disjunct when putting it into practice.

For example, a pallet of goods has a known mass, thus, the force that must be applied to lift that load is known.
In vehicle recovery no one can accurately quantify the force required in any situation,
MudrunnerDT has posted some usable figures and in the absence of calculations that show MudrunnerDT’s figures are wrong or highly inaccurate they stand for the time being.
As I understand it, according to MudrunnerDT’s figures, a “bellied” vehicle will be about 300% of its “loaded mass” i.e. (its Tare plus load) x 3 – for a fully loaded GQ Patrol tray back that would be about 9450Kg.
A recent article I read indicated that a bellied vehicle would need force of about 5300Kg to initiate a recovery. The vehicle mass was said to be 3.2Tonnes and from the accompanying photograph it appears that the vehicle was bellied on a flat stretch.
If their vehicle had of been on an incline like the vehicle in MudrunnerDT’s photo then at least 30% to 75% might be added to the 5.3Tonnes i.e. 6.89Tonnes to 9.275Tonnes

Working Load Limit (WLL)

A WLL is not a rating based on a failure point i.e. the point in time or load figure at which a piece of equipment (e.g. snatch strap, chain, “D” shackle, etc.) becomes inoperable.

A WLL includes a safety factor to enable the equipment to be safely matched to and operated with other equipment.
It has been inferred by some that a WLL is excessive when considering vehicle recovery.
In the article I referred to earlier, words to that effect may have been used. The same article included a photograph of a bow or “D” shackle with pulley block attached – the load was shown as applied to the “legs” of the shackle and not to the crown of the shackle and to the shackle pin.
It is an example of one of the reasons why the WLL of a shackle includes a safety margin of about 500% i.e. failure of a 4.7Tonne WLL shackle must be more than 28Tonnes.
Another reason is that a constant straight line test cannot replicate the shock and stress of a shifting load e.g. when there is a “bounce” during the lifting operation.

Safety Factors

The article I read also said something to the effect that the WLLs for load restraint chains are less than for shackles, which is good news because they are over engineered for recovery purposes.

As I read it, the gist of the article, which is reflected in some comments posted in this forum, is that WLLs are for some unexplained reasons irrelevant to recovery equipment.

Problem is that the result is a recovery system that includes some equipment that have safety factors of 500%, some that have safety factors of 200% and some that may have safety factors of about 10%.
The outcome is mismatched equipment i.e. WLL equipment and equipment with small safety margins.
A number of commercially available recovery kits include mismatched equipment.
THE SAFETY FACTOR OF THE WHOLE KIT MAY BE REDUCED TO 10% OR 30%

In my view, a safety margin of 10% OR 30% is ridiculous in any mechanical system!

Motive Forces

Winch capacity is a limiting factor in a winch driven recovery system.
If the winch (electric, PTO, hand or any other kind) can pull say 4000Kg then that by default sets the limit of the system and all parts of the system must at least be able to safely withstand application of that pull.
The same applies to a system that includes a winch that can pull 8000Kg – all parts of the system must at least be able to safely withstand application of that pull.
For the sake of clarity, a chain rated for lifting 10,000Kg with a “D” shackle at each end rated for lifting 4500Kg could be used as a bridle assembly and may be considered as capable of withstanding 8000Kg with a safety margin in addition to its WLL of about 12%.

A problem with a snatch strap is the only thing known about it is that it might fail some way short of say 8000Kg or a little above 8000Kg, for example.
The inertia of the vehicle applying force to the snatch strap may easily exceed 8000Kg – there is no inherent limiting factor, such as the capacity of an electric winch or shear pin in a hand winch.
The snatch strap itself does not limit the force that may be applied to a recovery system except by failing, which I think we can all agree is an undesirable outcome.
The solution IS NOT to include a snatch strap that will probably fail with application of a load in excess of other part(s) of the system – such an arrangement is dangerous and may be lethal.

THE FAILURE TONNAGE OF A SNATCH STRAP IS NOT A DE FACTO WLL.
There is no safety factor – a test to destruction means an inoperable product.
A snatch strap cannot have a safety factor – see above.


A few points may be summarised as follows –

1. A basic recovery kit should be suitable for common eventualities and unfortunately, drivers burying a vehicle in soft ground is commonplace – whether sand, mud, river bottom, river bank, roadside drain, sink hole, beach quicksand, leaf litter, (hidden) seaweed bank, etc., etc.
2. The recovery of a “bellied” vehicle will probably involve a pull exceeding 8000Kg.
3. Any person (especially one with little technical skill) should be able to assemble and operate the system to enable a driver to safely extract a vehicle from soft ground, etc.
4. There can be no presumption that all persons are equally competent at vehicle recovery.
5. For safety there must be certainty in the recovery process.
6. Guesswork fails.
7. Making do kills.


A “recovery kit” enables the assembly of different systems of work for a variety of situations, but safety must be –

(a) Constant, consistent and stable; and
(b) Must never be compromised for the sake of convenience or to save a few dollars.

Lets try again.

[tkn]

This post is long, but I think all of it has to be said.

The way this thread has been progressing opens a window on why people get killed and injured recovering vehicles.

Mechanical Systems

Any mechanical system comprises of a composite of different components and assemblies that together can be assembled to form a complete system suitable for a particular operation.

A “recovery kit” is just a specific name to describe a means of assembling a system for doing work i.e. safely recovering a vehicle.
Just as a car’s braking system is intended to work by bringing the vehicle safely to a halt.
Where there is a mismatch of components or assemblies – including the work capacity of each, whether that is called “Working Load Limit (WLL)” or some other specification – the system is inherently unstable and potentially dangerous i.e. it might kill someone.

Vehicle recovery is always a potentially dangerous operation, no matter who is doing or supervising it.
A “recovery kit” should be a readily usable system for doing the work and also a control system, such that the work may be completed SAFELY!

SAFETY.

You will find screeds written about it, but there is a disjunct when putting it into practice.

For example, a pallet of goods has a known mass, thus, the force that must be applied to lift that load is known.
In vehicle recovery no one can accurately quantify the force required in any situation,
MudrunnerDT has posted some usable figures and in the absence of calculations that show MudrunnerDT’s figures are wrong or highly inaccurate they stand for the time being.
As I understand it, according to MudrunnerDT’s figures, a “bellied” vehicle will be about 300% of its “loaded mass” i.e. (its Tare plus load) x 3 – for a fully loaded GQ Patrol tray back that would be about 9450Kg.
A recent article I read indicated that a bellied vehicle would need force of about 5300Kg to initiate a recovery. The vehicle mass was said to be 3.2Tonnes and from the accompanying photograph it appears that the vehicle was bellied on a flat stretch.
If their vehicle had of been on an incline like the vehicle in MudrunnerDT’s photo then at least 30% to 75% might be added to the 5.3Tonnes i.e. 6.89Tonnes to 9.275Tonnes

Working Load Limit (WLL)

A WLL is not a rating based on a failure point i.e. the point in time or load figure at which a piece of equipment (e.g. snatch strap, chain, “D” shackle, etc.) becomes inoperable.

A WLL includes a safety factor to enable the equipment to be safely matched to and operated with other equipment.
It has been inferred by some that a WLL is excessive when considering vehicle recovery.
In the article I referred to earlier, words to that effect may have been used. The same article included a photograph of a bow or “D” shackle with pulley block attached – the load was shown as applied to the “legs” of the shackle and not to the crown of the shackle and to the shackle pin.
It is an example of one of the reasons why the WLL of a shackle includes a safety margin of about 500% i.e. failure of a 4.7Tonne WLL shackle must be more than 28Tonnes.
Another reason is that a constant straight line test cannot replicate the shock and stress of a shifting load e.g. when there is a “bounce” during the lifting operation.

Safety Factors

The article I read also said something to the effect that the WLLs for load restraint chains are less than for shackles, which is good news because they are over engineered for recovery purposes.

As I read it, the gist of the article, which is reflected in some comments posted in this forum, is that WLLs are for some unexplained reasons irrelevant to recovery equipment.

Problem is that the result is a recovery system that includes some equipment that have safety factors of 500%, some that have safety factors of 200% and some that may have safety factors of about 10%.
The outcome is mismatched equipment i.e. WLL equipment and equipment with small safety margins.
A number of commercially available recovery kits include mismatched equipment.
THE SAFETY FACTOR OF THE WHOLE KIT MAY BE REDUCED TO 10% OR 30%

In my view, a safety margin of 10% OR 30% is ridiculous in any mechanical system!

Motive Forces

Winch capacity is a limiting factor in a winch driven recovery system.
If the winch (electric, PTO, hand or any other kind) can pull say 4000Kg then that by default sets the limit of the system and all parts of the system must at least be able to safely withstand application of that pull.
The same applies to a system that includes a winch that can pull 8000Kg – all parts of the system must at least be able to safely withstand application of that pull.
For the sake of clarity, a chain rated for lifting 10,000Kg with a “D” shackle at each end rated for lifting 4500Kg could be used as a bridle assembly and may be considered as capable of withstanding 8000Kg with a safety margin in addition to its WLL of about 12%.

A problem with a snatch strap is the only thing known about it is that it might fail some way short of say 8000Kg or a little above 8000Kg, for example.
The inertia of the vehicle applying force to the snatch strap may easily exceed 8000Kg – there is no inherent limiting factor, such as the capacity of an electric winch or shear pin in a hand winch.
The snatch strap itself does not limit the force that may be applied to a recovery system except by failing, which I think we can all agree is an undesirable outcome.
The solution IS NOT to include a snatch strap that will probably fail with application of a load in excess of other part(s) of the system – such an arrangement is dangerous and may be lethal.

THE FAILURE TONNAGE OF A SNATCH STRAP IS NOT A DE FACTO WLL.
There is no safety factor – a test to destruction means an inoperable product.
A snatch strap cannot have a safety factor – see above.


A few points may be summarised as follows –

1. A basic recovery kit should be suitable for common eventualities and unfortunately, drivers burying a vehicle in soft ground is commonplace – whether sand, mud, river bottom, river bank, roadside drain, sink hole, beach quicksand, leaf litter, (hidden) seaweed bank, etc., etc.
2. The recovery of a “bellied” vehicle will probably involve a pull exceeding 8000Kg.
3. Any person (especially one with little technical skill) should be able to assemble and operate the system to enable a driver to safely extract a vehicle from soft ground, etc.
4. There can be no presumption that all persons are equally competent at vehicle recovery.
5. For safety there must be certainty in the recovery process.
6. Guesswork fails.
7. Making do kills.


A “recovery kit” enables the assembly of different systems of work for a variety of situations, but safety must be –

(a) Constant, consistent and stable; and
(b) Must never be compromised for the sake of convenience or to save a few dollars.

Lets try again.

[Bigrig]

A lot of information, and a lot of effort put into collating it - well done mate! I won't be drawn into any discussions on the %'s to be added to a vehicles weight dependant on where and what it is stuck in, suffice to say, it's bound to be a bloody lot more than the actual loaded weight of the vehicle itself. The resounding comment that I am drawn to in your commentary is the line "There can be no presumption that all persons are equally competent at vehicle recovery" - this applies not only to the assembly and/or use of the equipment, but as demonstrated in multiple responses to this thread, it also applies to method of calculation of force required for the specific situation one may be confronted with and subsequently, whether or not (irrespective of competance with the assembly and use of recovery equipment) the recovery equipment is rated for this use. I have seen a lot of people out there (me too, but I have a range of rated shackles) whom only have 4500kg shackles as an example due to the fact they simply CANNOT get a larger shackle through the recovery points on their vehicle. The end result is rather than get rated recovery points installed, they get lower rated shackles ... this is only one very specific example of course and there would be myriads of others out there with varying stories to tell (and a lot of us truth be told who fall foul of this also). I understand, but don't condone, the reasons for doing this - money, money, money - cheaper to get a lower rated shackle for 10 bucks than a new recovery point for $100 plus ...

Top job tkn, MudRunner, and others whom have contributed to this thread ... if anything, I will certainly not be going back to school to brush up on my physics and mathemagics skills in order to calculate the pulling force required to extract a fully laden vehicle from a belly full of mud. I will however be far more mindful of vehicle extractions in future having gained an insight into the amount of force involved in these things (always knew it was a lot, but like most, just perform the motions without fully appreciating the implications). I guess to draw an analogy (good or bad), it is like the gun debate (and please don't focus on this comment - I am not a gun lover in any way but I am pragmatic about their use) - guns in themselves don't kill, but used in inappropriate manners, by inexperienced people, then the likelihood of resulting injury or death is heightened dramatically, however even with experience, accidents do happen (usually avoidable though) - no different to recovery equipment in my mind ...

[the evil twin]

TKN...

Totally agree with your summary, very well stated.

However, I don't quite get the body of your post.

If you mean that a Basic 4x4 Recovery Kit should have 9,000 Kg rated shackles to have a "balanced" recovery kit then I am of the opinion you are wrong but then I also possibly don't know what you mean by "balanced". If I do understand what you mean then to infer that a Kit such as DX grunt linked up from Nobles that has 3.2 Tonne shackles yet 12 tonne Starps is not "balanced" is totally incorrect.

As a point of interest the design factor for rating Shackles, Slings and Chains varies slightly from 6 to (where people are in the loop) 8 or 800% if you prefer. I totally agree no-one should use ANY powered or mechanical recovery equipment without understanding what they are doing however while anyone can walk in off the street and buy the gear that will never happen. The entire objective of safe recover techniques is to educate people on understanding and interpreting equipment WLL's, calculating the forces being applied and rig the recovery appropriately.

There will always be a lowest common denominator effect in any rigging that determines the safe WLL of the recovery or situation. It might be the line pull of a winch, the shackles whatever BUT a lot of the time the weakest link is the dumbass human.

I also would guestimate (having never seen one that big) that a 9 tonne rated Bow Shackle will weigh approx 3 Kilo's and cost at least $60 each and that the pin will be well over 30mm in dia so (as Bigrig also says) it will not fit many, if any 4WD recovery points, billet hitch or winch fitting which severely limits where you can use them anyway.

For reference the largest shackle I use at work rigging moorings for undersea equipment is 8.5 tonnes rated and is goddam huge. I can get them for nothing but still wouldn't bother to carry one as I cannot concieve where I would use it.

Bottom line ? ... for Joe Average with a Basic Recovery Kit and esp with no winch then 9 ton or higher rated shackles are not practical or affordable.

However any debate on the subject is healthy and each to their own opinions. I will totally agree that always erring on the high side and "if in doubt, DON'T" is the way to go... :clapping:

[the evil twin]

Motive Forces

Winch capacity is a limiting factor in a winch driven recovery system.
If the winch (electric, PTO, hand or any other kind) can pull say 4000Kg then that by default sets the limit of the system and all parts of the system must at least be able to safely withstand application of that pull.
The same applies to a system that includes a winch that can pull 8000Kg – all parts of the system must at least be able to safely withstand application of that pull.


It might also pay to check the rating on the hook on the "8,000 LB" (most winch's are LB's not KG's but no biggee) Winch as well then. I suggest the Hook WLL will be 2 tonnes or less indeed, often the Winch Mounting System will be well under the line pull figure as well. Anyone here want to try hanging, say, 10,000 Lbs off their bullbar to prove the Winch wont take it off under full load ? :)

There is no requirement for motive force to be the lowest denominator because as soon as you introduce any M.A. rig then the calculations no longer apply anyway.

I think I know what you are trying to get at tho... If ALL the equipment has a W.L.L. higher than the motive force then nothing will break as the winch will stall first and there will be no catastrophic failure to injure people... Is that it?

If so you are correct but the problem then becomes one of practicality and necessity... and if it isn't practical and necessary people won't do it because an 8 or even 12 K line pull has buckleys of breaking a 3 or 4 ton shackle.

Anyway I've put forward my point so no need for me to keep yarping.

[tkn]

Been away doing a few other things in life.

To further clarify what I say in the "long post" - every SAFE mechanical system must have a working limit (whether it is known as "SWL" or "WWL").

A mechanical system is a combination of components or assemblies that are employed to work together to do work.
For example, an assembly comprising of a 9000Kg bridle chain or strap connected to a vehicle by 3200Kg bow shackles at each end and a 8000Kg winch strap connected to the bridle chain or strap by a 6000Kg bow shackle and to a 8000Kg tree protector with a 6000Kg bow shackle is a simple mechanical system. If a 6000Kg load is applied to the winch strap (it does not matter how it happens) each of the bow shackles to the vehicle will be loaded to about 3000Kg, the bridle strap or chain will be loaded to 6000Kg, 6000Kg load to the bow shackles either end of the winch strap, 6000Kg to the winch strap, 6000Kg to the tree protector and 6000Kg to the tree - the tree has become a part of the mechanical system.
The system described in the example is what I would call a "balanced system" i.e. the load on any part of the system is greater than 6000Kg - the known maximum load that can be applied to that system by the winch you are using (for example).
If the bow shackles at the ends of the winch strap are rated to 4500Kg, the example system would be "unblanced" i.e. a 6000Kg load would exceed the load the (example) winch could apply to the system.
An unbalanced system is unsafe.

You might say that a 4500Kg bow shackle has a safety factor of 600%, so that a load of 6000Kg would merely reduce that safety factor to say 300%.
Unfortunately, physical forces do not work in that way, the safety factor might be reduced to 200%.
Now, say the vehicle slips during recovery and there is a "bounce" in the winch strap, it is possible that the "bounce" will create a instantaneous load of say 7000Kg - the safety factor would be reduced to about 45% (at best) and that would be an unsafe system.

From MudrunnerDT's figures and others, I think it can be accepted that loads on a recovery kit (read "mechanical system") may easily exceed 6000Kg and the load may sometimes be double that if the vehicle being recovery (as deadweight or being driven) slips or jumps during the recovery process.

Rating of products is usually with a constant load, which involves completely different stresses and strains to the dynamics of a vehicle recovery.
For that reason I tend not to increase any "rating" beyond the WWL (of a bow shackle, for example).
Similarly, straight line pull tests of snatch straps are a bit of nonsense in my view. The only way to truly test a snatch strap is to simulate the peak loads of an actual recovery.
In addition, it is generally acknowledged that the performance capabilities of snatch straps change after each use, including a progressive loss of their elasticity.
In short, a snatch strap is not a ratable product - its performance is always changing.

A 9000Kg bow shackle might seem at first to be excessive, but I look at it in three ways -

1. The extra weight is not significant.
2. The extra expense of the purchase is not huge.
3. I want to be alive at the end of the day and I do not want to kill or injure anyone.

The recovery kit you choose ought be determined by the total load your winch can apply to any mechanical system you can assemble using that kit as the WWL of that system.
Cost and weight are irrelevant - safety rules.

Just a word on "helping" others who do not have the appropriate kit.
The law of negligence arrives here and will hold you liable for all of your actions (however well intended) and the safety of your equipment.
It is one of the maxims of equity that the law does not assist a volunteer.

Just a parting thought. I keep simple line drawings of different double and triple pull systems along with my recovery gear - partly to stop me making a simple mistake and partly to help me not to miss the obvious.




The working limit of any mechanical system is the

[patch697]

What can I say except..... What a mind blowing read & totally agreed.

I like your idea of the simple drawings as well. Bloody good thinking on your part & even better advice for us.

TOP EFFORT

Cheers
Paul

[tkn]

Just one adjustment i would make to my earlier post today - I don't know what "WWL" is?

Anyway, what it should have said is "WLL" (third line) = Working Load Limit,
and then "For that reason I tend not to increase any "rating" beyond the WLL (of a bow shackle, for example)."

[molongmick]

I must say that this thread has confirmed verything I was thinking when I decided to purchase my equipment. I have ordered a 12000lb TJM ox winch with the Heavy duty recovery kit, the kit includes the following:
HEAVY DUTY RECOVERY KIT

11,000kg snatch strap 75mm x 9m.
6,000kg winch extension strap.
10,000kg tree trunk protector 75mm x 3m.
8,000kg snatch block.
19mm bow shackles x2.
16mm bow shackles x2.
Heavy duty leather gloves.
Recovery blanket.

[Bigrig]

I must say that this thread has confirmed verything I was thinking when I decided to purchase my equipment. I have ordered a 12000lb TJM ox winch with the Heavy duty recovery kit, the kit includes the following:
HEAVY DUTY RECOVERY KIT

11,000kg snatch strap 75mm x 9m.
6,000kg winch extension strap.
10,000kg tree trunk protector 75mm x 3m.
8,000kg snatch block.
19mm bow shackles x2.
16mm bow shackles x2.
Heavy duty leather gloves.
Recovery blanket.

That's the go!! Good gear!!

[Bigrig]

Just one adjustment i would make to my earlier post today - I don't know what "WWL" is?

Anyway, what it should have said is "WLL" (third line) = Working Load Limit,
and then "For that reason I tend not to increase any "rating" beyond the WLL (of a bow shackle, for example)."

Don't forget WLL on shackles is around 4-5 to 1. That is, a 4.5 tonne shackle has a tensile breaking strength of somewhere in the range of 16-20 tonnes of force. The reason I bring this up is someone asked me last week whats the point of having a 12000kg strap, when I only had a 4500 shackle. IMHO only, nothing less than a 3750kg shackle should be used for recovery like winching, and nothing less than a 4500kg shackle for high load recovery like snatching. Smaller shackles can be used for load bearing however - that is, using them for holding the vehicle in place whilst setting up other recovery equipment. I did this first hand when I rolled my old GQ trayback and had to drag it a bit at a time up a 70 degree plus hill and then hold it in place whilst re-positioning the recovery gear - took me and the old man about 14 hours to get it out!!!

[wogboy]

This might not be what you had in mind when starting the thread, but it might be a help.

Seems that “spot the dummy” is popular. But what is a safe standard recovery “system” ?

I’ll jump in the deep end and put up what I think is a (general) minimum and others can pull it apart, add to it, etc. so the result might be a safe and practical (not perfect) system –

1. Two 4.5T rated recovery points.
2. Each end of a 9T rated bridle chain or strap is fastened to a recovery point with a 4.5T rated shackle.
3. One end of a 9T rated strap (say 10 metres long) is fastened to the bridle strap or chain with a 9T rated shackle.
4. The other end of the 9T rated strap is fastened to a rated 9T synthetic winch cable with a 9T rated shackle.
5. The winch cable passes through a 9T rated snatch block that is fastened to both ends of 9T rated tree protector with a 9T rated shackle.
6. A “winch blanket” hangs on the winch cable and another “winch blanket” hangs on the 9T rated strap.

That system would not take a lot of time to set up and would offer safe working for a majority of recoveries.
Why 9T ratings? Covers difficult and easy recoveries – huge generalisation I know, but had to start somewhere. If 9T is too high – a possibility is to work to 4.5T total load for the system.
The 9T potential load is split between the winch (say 4.5T) and the recovery points (say 2.25T each) – all you need then is a tree or another vehicle (harnessed to a tree) to withstand the 9T that may be applied to the tree protector.

Where are the administrators and moderators?

[Bigrig]

Where are the administrators and moderators?

Not with you mate? If you're referring to the "spot the dummy" comment, he only meant we all tend to stand back and pick on others (hence, spot the dummy) whilst it is apparent that there is still more to be learned an understood by everyone with regards to force calculation when performing recovery.

Or did I miss your point? All good though either way mate.

[Silver]

Interesting read.

I'd have to find my little card from Serafini Chains again, but if you hook a chain to itself, like the letter P, or use it like this V with the top of each leg attached to a recovery point, and the pull applied to the point of the V, the load capacity of the chain is significantly reduced. (apparently this can be avoided by using a 'cradle grab hook'?) That's why my bridle chain is an 8 tonner, not a 2 tonner.

I do wonder about recovering stranger's vehicles - I have done it but only a very simple snatch in sand, just because I don't think that people who don't even have recovery gear understand the risk, or their insurance coy might put that argument together that they did not give informed consent.

I'm a bit like that with starting with jumper leads - I'll make my old Patrol available to anyone to jump start if they have their own jumper leads and say they know what they are doing. I don't know what does and does not have a computer these days, nor how fragile they are......

[Bigrig]

Interesting read.

I'd have to find my little card from Serafini Chains again, but if you hook a chain to itself, like the letter P, or use it like this V with the top of each leg attached to a recovery point, and the pull applied to the point of the V, the load capacity of the chain is significantly reduced. (apparently this can be avoided by using a 'cradle grab hook'?) That's why my bridle chain is an 8 tonner, not a 2 tonner.

I do wonder about recovering stranger's vehicles - I have done it but only a very simple snatch in sand, just because I don't think that people who don't even have recovery gear understand the risk, or their insurance coy might put that argument together that they did not give informed consent.

I'm a bit like that with starting with jumper leads - I'll make my old Patrol available to anyone to jump start if they have their own jumper leads and say they know what they are doing. I don't know what does and does not have a computer these days, nor how fragile they are......

Good points mate - example: my missus ran her battery flat at LCMP, and I used a dodgy set of SuperCheap cables to start her Jeep, which is electronic everything!! I had left my set of 400amp/electronic compatible leads at home and used the set that she had. Low and behold, and there was multiple people present, the cables had a core of about 3mm (utter crap) and started to overheat and all her lights and everything cut out completely. Suffice to say we sh!t as we thought we'd blown the electronics as all the relays under the bonnet were ticking (yes, like a bomb!! lol). Disconnected the battery for a bit and then once reconnected, started it first pop using heavy duty leads - interesting because as you say, had that of been a stranger, I would have thought "sh!t, we've killed her electronics" and the fact is with those cars, even the hubs, etc are electronic, so even had we started it, she would have no 4wd - not much chop if it happened in the middle of the bush!!

[nowoolies]

In reply to AB...

I consider the following as basic recovery gear.

1 Snatch strap (8,000 KG )
1 Bridle (4,500 KG)
2 Bow Shackles (rated min 3.7 but 4.2 preferred)
1 Drag Chain
1 pr Gloves (drag chains can pinch like a bitch)

...if your vehicle has a winch add

1 standard tree trunk protector (12,000 KG)
1 standard winch extension strap (4,500Kg) or rope (equiv or better than winch pull rating so around 4,500Kg min)
1 snatch block (9,000 KG)
2 more shackles for rigging the block etc

IF I am solo vehicle I personally carry more than that in the form of another extension, 2 Blocks instead of 1 and extra shackles but IMHO the above is what qualifies as a "basic" kit. The extra's are so I can use a redirection as well as a pull because you don't have the luxury of positioning another vehicle in just the right spot and Murphy (the mongrel) will surely have killed off the only suitable tree for a straight pull.

you got my recovery kit lol
only differance is i allways carry 6x 4.2t shackels, 2 x 9000kg snatch blocks and 2 x tree trunk protector/ bridle
any form of recovery i use a bridle both ends just in case one of the recovery points lets go ,
i had a recovery point let go not mine (bolts snapped off ) and the winch cable and shackle left a big dent in the rear of my tray back and thats with a line damper in place
my vehicle was tied to a tree and the pully block fitted to my recovery point
i was watching from a safe distance and the recovery point broke off the other vehicle
absolutly had to change my jocks

[the evil twin]

you got my recovery kit lol
only differance is i allways carry 6x 4.2t shackels, 2 x 9000kg snatch blocks and 2 x tree trunk protector/ bridle
any form of recovery i use a bridle both ends just in case one of the recovery points lets go ,
i had a recovery point let go not mine (bolts snapped off ) and the winch cable and shackle left a big dent in the rear of my tray back and thats with a line damper in place
my vehicle was tied to a tree and the pully block fitted to my recovery point
i was watching from a safe distance and the recovery point broke off the other vehicle
absolutly had to change my jocks

ROFL... Yep I carry more than that as well as I stated an extra block is a Godsend at times and if you don't have extra shackles you need to be good at knots in Plasma (ask the Yeagarup trip Boys from the weekend there is gunna be a few Exhaust Jacks bought in Perth over the next feww weeks I reckon, coulda sold mine for $100 if I was an rrrsehole)... but that is IMHO the "Basic" Kit.

[Peacemaker]

Simple precaution for jumping is connect the neg to the block of both cars. Will help prevent a "spike" if it ever does happen. My recovery kit contains 4x 7.2t omega carabiners. http://www.omegapac.com/more_12steelstyle5.html There a lot less bulky than the old bow shackles. I also wouldn't go any were without my shovel and 8t snatch.

What my full kit actually contains is......gloves, Rubber ground sheet, 2x 8t snatch straps, 2x 4.2t shackles, 4x 7.2t carabiners, 2x winch ext strap, 1 tree protector, 1 equalising strap, 2x winch blankets, 2x winch blocks, set of maxxtrax, pick, chainsaw, axe, shovel, crowbar, drag chain, tyre/rim repair kit, electric rattle gun, 500a jumper leads, hi lift and an exhaust jack. Will prob look at getting a hand winch and 12v-24v welder soon to. As you can see i do a lot of recovering field repair ............... of other trucks.

[Bigrig]

My recovery kit is a satphone!!! Dial "1800 HELP ME".!!! lmao

[Mazodude]

Awesome tut.
Looking at putting together my first recovery kit.
This will be very helpful.
Thanks

[YNOT]

Awesome tut.
Looking at putting together my first recovery kit.
This will be very helpful.
Thanks

Welcome to the forum mate.
Now that you're here why not drop by the introductions page and tell us a bit about yourself and your Patrol.

Tony

[Peacemaker]

i think scotty could do with a recovery kit of a different kind this morning.

[Dhuck]

i think scotty could do with a recovery kit of a different kind this morning.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[tmijnhout]

I have most of these things does anyone know where you can get a decent UHF from?

[BubbaChang]

Is it easier to buy a recovery kit with everything or make it urself and I don't have a winch on my patrol is a hand winch just as effective I'm on a budget

[timbar]

Is it easier to buy a recovery kit with everything or make it urself and I don't have a winch on my patrol is a hand winch just as effective I'm on a budget

A winch isnt nessary as long as ling as u have other 4x4s that are with u should be fine a uhf radio makes life a lot easier for every one involved

Sent from my GT-I9000T using Tapatalk

[BubbaChang]

Ok so better to get a UHF and recovery kit then a electric winch initially then when I've got the funds get a winch but yet again which recovery kit

[timbar]

Ok so better to get a UHF and recovery kit then a electric winch initially then when I've got the funds get a winch but yet again which recovery kit

U will need a 8ton snatch strap and rated D shackles which u will be able t buy from any auto shop

Sent from my GT-I9000T using Tapatalk

[BubbaChang]

Thats just to start with right

[BubbaChang]

Cause I've been reading and everyone says don't share effectively get ur own recovery gear

[Spar]

I just picked up a decent kit on sale for $199. It's a warn kit with a bunch of goodies including the pulley block, tree protector, tow strap, snatch strap, shackles, bag, gloves, etc... They are on sale at Autobarn at the moment, they also had a basic kit for $99, i don't see why you would go without one when they are that cheap. Also, i assumes that warn wouldn't put their name on crap so yeah, correct me if i'm wrong :)

[Clunk]

Cause I've been reading and everyone says don't share effectively get ur own recovery gear

Most people don't mind sharing, but if something breaks while recovering you, the right thing to do is pay for a replacement......... I've been picking up my stuff bit at a time, snatch strap, bridle, tow strap, reece hitch attatcment and 4.7t shackles

[CoGRedeMptioN]

Awesome read! Just one point ... my Y60 has tie-down points at the front end only, so any recovery gear seems to be useless (unless we sling it underneath on the chassis)!!

Living in Port Hedland I find it is incredibly hard!! So far two options presnt themselves to me, make 'em my self out of 10mm plate steel or buy them online from Maquarie 4x4 Centre (http://www.macquarie4x4.com.au/index.cfm?pageName=Recovery%20Equipment). Does anyone have any alternatives??

cheers
C

[growler2058]

Awesome read! Just one point ... my Y60 has tie-down points at the front end only, so any recovery gear seems to be useless (unless we sling it underneath on the chassis)!!

Living in Port Hedland I find it is incredibly hard!! So far two options presnt themselves to me, make 'em my self out of 10mm plate steel or buy them online from Maquarie 4x4 Centre (http://www.macquarie4x4.com.au/index.cfm?pageName=Recovery%20Equipment). Does anyone have any alternatives??

cheers
C

Id be buying them mate, at least you know youve got a rated recovery point, but if your good at fab work and know what youre doing........ well have a crack

[Ceason]

Thank you. Sorry for what may seem a stupid question, but what do you store it all in? Bag or box?

[Hodge]

Thank you. Sorry for what may seem a stupid question, but what do you store it all in? Bag or box?

A lot of "kits" come in their own bag. For example the ARB pictured below. Even if you get bits and pieces seperately, a recovery "bag" can be bought on it's on.
And then a lot of people store their gear neatly in the rear draws as well. Also pictured.


Edit: ** Not affiliated with below pictured brands at all. I just randomly plucked pics of google to show as examples.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53425&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53426&stc=1

[Ceason]

Thank you for the must haves.

[Rock Trol]

The other thing to remember when buying snatch straps is to not go too big. That's because if the strap is too heavy it will not extend/stretch as much as it should and will transfer a lot of the shock load into the recovery points. When the straps are the correct rating they will extend at the correct rate and in effect absorb some of that shock load from the moving car.

The general rule of thumb is that the rating of the snatch strap should be 2.5 x the weight of the lightest vehicle involved in the recovery. For our Patrols the 8000kg strap would be the optimum weight. This is another reason to bring your own snatch strap. For example, imagine trying to recover a much lighter vehicle (e.g. any Suzuki) using a snatch strap rated for a Patrol. It would not extend and probably start breaking things off the car. If they had their own 4000kg strap then there would be no problems as it would work for their car.

[threedogs]

Id be buying them mate, at least you know youve got a rated recovery point, but if your good at fab work and know what youre doing........ well have a crack

I wouldn't recommend making your own there is a bit more in it than just cutting out a shape and bolting it somewhere'
@ growler not having a dig just saying , as its inviting backyard mistakes IMO.
I believe I have the only NATA tested front and rear recovery points in Aust.
any others you see the same shape are just copies and not rated.
One thing not mentioned in this thread is a decent compressor, a must for any 4x4 outing,
I would avoid the ones with a thermal cut out, for under bonnet installation

another old thread dragged up.

You could buy an ammo box and use that as a dedicated recovery box,
that way every thing is in one place

[gropertoo]

Hi, my first post.

A lot of good info here and thanks to the contributors.

Just upgraded / retrograded from a 2012 Navara to a 2009 Patrol.

I've always carried (rated) recovery gear in my Navara after going for my my first (solo) run from Tim's Thicket to Preston Beach WA. All I had on that run was "thankfully" a shovel and it came in verrry handy, which I'd thrown in as an off chance!

I'd point anyone's attention to the simple diagrams that riggers use for slinging in regard to recovery straps (strops), the various ways that they are connected e.g. single, double/basket. choked etc significantly vary the rated load capacity of ANY sling. These diagrams/leaflets are readily available online.

I also would advise that everybody does need to do themselves a favour and buy their own recovery gear, minimum I believe is rated shackles x 2, a recovery hitch (Reese style) and a rated strop/sling and probably a snatch strap also.

Please be aware of the need to add a dampener e.g. blanket/coat/sack to any line under tension which has the capacity to have you in the line of fire.

Enjoy and stay safe.,

[4bye4]

Hi, my first post.

A lot of good info here and thanks to the contributors.

Just upgraded / retrograded from a 2012 Navara to a 2009 Patrol.

I've always carried (rated) recovery gear in my Navara after going for my my first (solo) run from Tim's Thicket to Preston Beach WA. All I had on that run was "thankfully" a shovel and it came in verrry handy, which I'd thrown in as an off chance!

I'd point anyone's attention to the simple diagrams that riggers use for slinging in regard to recovery straps (strops), the various ways that they are connected e.g. single, double/basket. choked etc significantly vary the rated load capacity of ANY sling. These diagrams/leaflets are readily available online.

I also would advise that everybody does need to do themselves a favour and buy their own recovery gear, minimum I believe is rated shackles x 2, a recovery hitch (Reese style) and a rated strop/sling and probably a snatch strap also.

Please be aware of the need to add a dampener e.g. blanket/coat/sack to any line under tension which has the capacity to have you in the line of fire.

Enjoy and stay safe.,

G'day mate. An interesting and informative post - sounds like you have experience in the rigging area. You might like to tell us a bit about yourself in the "introductions" thread please, so others can meet you.

[gropertoo]

G'day 4bye,

No, not a rigger mate but work offshore with equipment that has it's own (big) electric winches, hydraulic A-frames etc (ROV).

Also learnt a lot of this rigging stuff too many years in ago in basic engineering theory in the RAN.

I'm electronics/electrical by trade but current work involves hydraulics too, so as I said in the intro, know a bit about everything apart from engines.

In my early fifties and continuing to learn, every day!

Cheers,

gropertoo

[npw112]

Really handy video.

[Robo]

Great thread.

Does dragging a unprotected chassie through a sticky situation pose a greater load than one with plates fitted ??.
Would have thought any protection plates underneath would have a sled effect and thus help reduce resistance to recovery.
Has any one noticed a vehicle with plates fitted seems to be easier to recover?